Is this the future or coal jobs?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-just-bu...45118.html

Coal jobs are toast, and it has nothing to do with green energy projects. It has to do with natural gas power plants that are simply cheaper. But green projects like Solar and Wind are a good thing. Something that I found interesting recently was the Solar roofing that Tesla came up with. If more companies could get involved with this idea a lower the cost of the shingles. Then it would be a great way to produce excess energy.

(06-10-2017 07:19 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  Coal jobs are toast, and it has nothing to do with green energy projects. It has to do with natural gas power plants that are simply cheaper. But green projects like Solar and Wind are a good thing. Something that I found interesting recently was the Solar roofing that Tesla came up with. If more companies could get involved with this idea a lower the cost of the shingles. Then it would be a great way to produce excess energy.

Coal will be around a long, long time. Energy prices bounce up and down over time, especially natural gas.

I support government programs to create more rivers that can be have dams for hydroelectric power. That will solve all our energy and climate problems. Can't understand why no one is doing anything about it.

(06-10-2017 07:00 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Is this the future or coal jobs?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-just-bu...45118.html

Both, for at least quite a while.

I am 100% in favor of alternative forms of energy that is affordable and can compete in the open market on their own. I'm pretty sure everyone feels that way, and if we see that a traditional energy source is no longer economically viable then it needs to go away. What you will find is people who are not if favor of providing massive infusions of cash to prop up an energy source that is not competitive in the open market. I'm in favor of R&D expenditures to develop better and cheaper alternatives of energy; however, I'm not in favor of seeing these alternatives rushed to market way too soon as a "feel good story" at best and what most believe are actually thinly veiled kickbacks to "friends of politics" at regular American's expense.

(06-10-2017 09:45 AM)miko33 Wrote:  I am 100% in favor of alternative forms of energy that is affordable and can compete in the open market on their own. I'm pretty sure everyone feels that way, and if we see that a traditional energy source is no longer economically viable then it needs to go away. What you will find is people who are not if favor of providing massive infusions of cash to prop up an energy source that is not competitive in the open market. I'm in favor of R&D expenditures to develop better and cheaper alternatives of energy; however, I'm not in favor of seeing these alternatives rushed to market way too soon as a "feel good story" at best and what most believe are actually thinly veiled kickbacks to "friends of politics" at regular American's expense.

Well stated.

I'd hate to be a citizen of a city that has to rely upon power from a chinese manufactured component.

(06-10-2017 07:53 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  I support government programs to create more rivers that can be have dams for hydroelectric power. That will solve all our energy and climate problems. Can't understand why no one is doing anything about it.

I agree. Taking a landscaping approach to the entire nation actually make sense. Take the southwest for instance. Why couldn't we take some of the lands that the federal government owns and experiment with planting non-native flora in the hopes of changing it from desert. The Baobab tree from Madagascar would seem to be a perfect example of nonnative flora that could thrive.

(06-10-2017 07:00 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Is this the future or coal jobs?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-just-bu...45118.html

So it's that black and white... nice..

(06-10-2017 10:28 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 07:53 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  I support government programs to create more rivers that can be have dams for hydroelectric power. That will solve all our energy and climate problems. Can't understand why no one is doing anything about it.

I agree. Taking a landscaping approach to the entire nation actually make sense. Take the southwest for instance. Why couldn't we take some of the lands that the federal government owns and experiment with planting non-native flora in the hopes of changing it from desert. The Baobab tree from Madagascar would seem to be a perfect example of nonnative flora that could thrive.

Ever hear of Kudzu? Kudzu is what happens when "well intentioned" people introduce non-native flora.

(06-10-2017 09:45 AM)miko33 Wrote:  I am 100% in favor of alternative forms of energy that is affordable and can compete in the open market on their own. I'm pretty sure everyone feels that way, and if we see that a traditional energy source is no longer economically viable then it needs to go away. What you will find is people who are not if favor of providing massive infusions of cash to prop up an energy source that is not competitive in the open market. I'm in favor of R&D expenditures to develop better and cheaper alternatives of energy; however, I'm not in favor of seeing these alternatives rushed to market way too soon as a "feel good story" at best and what most believe are actually thinly veiled kickbacks to "friends of politics" at regular American's expense.

Agreed.

(06-10-2017 11:10 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 10:28 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 07:53 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  I support government programs to create more rivers that can be have dams for hydroelectric power. That will solve all our energy and climate problems. Can't understand why no one is doing anything about it.

I agree. Taking a landscaping approach to the entire nation actually make sense. Take the southwest for instance. Why couldn't we take some of the lands that the federal government owns and experiment with planting non-native flora in the hopes of changing it from desert. The Baobab tree from Madagascar would seem to be a perfect example of nonnative flora that could thrive.

Ever hear of Kudzu? Kudzu is what happens when "well intentioned" people introduce non-native flora.

Hell no to kudzu. Stuff is everywhere in Alabama.

(06-10-2017 11:31 AM)Rob Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 09:45 AM)miko33 Wrote:  I am 100% in favor of alternative forms of energy that is affordable and can compete in the open market on their own. I'm pretty sure everyone feels that way, and if we see that a traditional energy source is no longer economically viable then it needs to go away. What you will find is people who are not if favor of providing massive infusions of cash to prop up an energy source that is not competitive in the open market. I'm in favor of R&D expenditures to develop better and cheaper alternatives of energy; however, I'm not in favor of seeing these alternatives rushed to market way too soon as a "feel good story" at best and what most believe are actually thinly veiled kickbacks to "friends of politics" at regular American's expense.

Agreed.

Agreed. Initial R&D can be a good role of government tax dollar funding to spread that initial cost. But...at some point the government should back off and let the private market refine the R&D and make a commercially feasible product. The problem is the government never backs off.

(06-10-2017 11:10 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 10:28 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 07:53 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  I support government programs to create more rivers that can be have dams for hydroelectric power. That will solve all our energy and climate problems. Can't understand why no one is doing anything about it.

I agree. Taking a landscaping approach to the entire nation actually make sense. Take the southwest for instance. Why couldn't we take some of the lands that the federal government owns and experiment with planting non-native flora in the hopes of changing it from desert. The Baobab tree from Madagascar would seem to be a perfect example of nonnative flora that could thrive.

Ever hear of Kudzu? Kudzu is what happens when "well intentioned" people introduce non-native flora.

I have heard of Kudzu and do understand the problem. But there is a difference between Kudzu and the Baobab tree.

(06-10-2017 12:17 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 11:10 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 10:28 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 07:53 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  I support government programs to create more rivers that can be have dams for hydroelectric power. That will solve all our energy and climate problems. Can't understand why no one is doing anything about it.

I agree. Taking a landscaping approach to the entire nation actually make sense. Take the southwest for instance. Why couldn't we take some of the lands that the federal government owns and experiment with planting non-native flora in the hopes of changing it from desert. The Baobab tree from Madagascar would seem to be a perfect example of nonnative flora that could thrive.

Ever hear of Kudzu? Kudzu is what happens when "well intentioned" people introduce non-native flora.

I have heard of Kudzu and do understand the problem. But there is a difference between Kudzu and the Baobab tree.

changing the climate in one area intentionally can change it in another area unintentionally.

There was once a proposal to green the Sahara, but it was later ditched because it was concluded that it would have negative climate implications for other areas, including less rain in the Amazon.

(06-10-2017 12:17 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 11:10 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 10:28 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 07:53 AM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  I support government programs to create more rivers that can be have dams for hydroelectric power. That will solve all our energy and climate problems. Can't understand why no one is doing anything about it.

I agree. Taking a landscaping approach to the entire nation actually make sense. Take the southwest for instance. Why couldn't we take some of the lands that the federal government owns and experiment with planting non-native flora in the hopes of changing it from desert. The Baobab tree from Madagascar would seem to be a perfect example of nonnative flora that could thrive.

Ever hear of Kudzu? Kudzu is what happens when "well intentioned" people introduce non-native flora.

I have heard of Kudzu and do understand the problem. But there is a difference between Kudzu and the Baobab tree.

There is, but that could also lead to a different problem. Whereas Kudzu overwhelms other vegetation above the soil, it might be that a Boabab tree can starve other desert plants such as cactuses below the soil. A mature Boabab tree can hold over 30,000 gallons of water, which is cool, but that water has to come from somewhere. And given the american southwest's rainfall of about 5" per year, it would come from a 100foot by 100foot to a 150 x 150 foot area around the tree. That would mean that large Boab trees could starve an area of water a quarter to a half acre in size.

Thats not to say they cant be planted. It simply has to be ensured that the tree cant spread and do damage on its own. Trees are a little easier to contain than weeds and vines (actually a lot easier) but a single tree can do extensive damage. In a desert setting, it would be easier to contain the trees due to easier access and long maturity cycle. ( You can simply find them a cut them down before the are able to sexually reproduce) There are some invasive trees that have been planted in the south, in bogs and marshes, where the trees literally dry the wetland up. And they are very difficult to get to, because they are in the middle of an area thats 4 feet under water.

What would need to be studied is whether or not the tree's root system changes the chemical makeup of the soil in a way that would impact the native species. That would be bad, and would be very difficult to correct.

Unfortunately, for whatever reasons Kudzu has not been employed as well as it should. It is a food for animals and man, plus there are other uses for it. What is the problem here?

(06-10-2017 07:00 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Is this the future or coal jobs?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-just-bu...45118.html

Because of all the pollution in China, I wonder if solar plants can be as effective in China as elsewhere? I'm probably being stupid again but I'm just thinking of these images of big cities in China where everyone is wearing masks and the sun can barely be seen through the smoke and haze. Maybe that's just a few parts of China?

(06-10-2017 04:54 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  

(06-10-2017 07:00 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Is this the future or coal jobs?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-just-bu...45118.html

Because of all the pollution in China, I wonder if solar plants can be as effective in China as elsewhere? I'm probably being stupid again but I'm just thinking of these images of big cities in China where everyone is wearing masks and the sun can barely be seen through the smoke and haze. Maybe that's just a few parts of China?

in smoggy areas it would absolutely decrease their output.

I think China is primarily installing these is rural areas where smog isn't a problem though.