(06-12-2017 10:34 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  The CFP and/or ESPN being scared of two undefeated G5's rests entirely on the idea that there would be public outcry over one of those G5's not getting a NY6 bowl.

I don't see why there would be any such outcry. Even if it were undefeated MWC and AAC teams, each with multiple P5 wins.

There would be an outcry. But they wouldn't care. Just like in 1998. At least then CUSA had the Liberty Bowl where an undefeated Tulane, who was ignored by the BCS, drew a 9-4 BYU as an opponent.

Hwever, the fact the P5 or ESPN wouldnt care---doesnt mean it wouldnt make a difference. In the end, that 1998 snub of an undefeated Tulane gave birth to a movement created by then Tulane president Scott Cowen, that led to the modification of the BCS requiring non-AQ schools be given a place in a major BCS game when the non-AQ team exceeded certain ranking parameters. Essentially, the Tulane snub led to the creation of "BCS Busters"..which in turn, led to the guaranteed G5 access bowl that now exists.

Correct. The 1998 Tulane team with Shaun King at QB finished #10 in the BCS rankings that year, and went on to beat BYU in the Liberty Bowl.

There was public outcry that year though ...... for Kansas State, which finished #3 in the BCS rankings but was not given an at-large spot to a BCS bowl, having lost to TA&M in STL for the Big 12 championship. (one of many upsets in the cursed Big 12 CCG ...)

Coog,

Feel free to correct me, if you're referring to something else specifically, but my understanding is that it was Utah's senator who opened up the BCS to non-AQ teams. And that's how Utah got the first non-AQ BCS slot, under Urban Meyer (beating Pittsburgh, if I recall correctly).

EDIT: yes, it was 2004 when Utah received the first ever BCS bowl bid from a non-AQ conference, beating Pittsburgh in the Fiesta Bowl. And actually it was a combination of Utah and Auburn both seen as being screwed by the BCS that season which led to further changes in the system.

(06-12-2017 10:52 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Correct. The 1998 Tulane team with Shaun King at QB finished #10 in the BCS rankings that year, and went on to beat BYU in the Liberty Bowl.

There was public outcry that year though ...... for Kansas State, which finished #3 in the BCS rankings but was not given an at-large spot to a BCS bowl, having lost to TA&M in STL for the Big 12 championship. (one of many upsets in the cursed Big 12 CCG ...)

Ehh...It wasnt much of an outcry. That team wasnt undefeated. It didnt win its conference. Losing the last two games of the season pretty much quieted any complaints (dropped both the CCG and thier bowl game to Purdue). At least they got to play a ranked P5 team in the Alamodome. Its not a BCS Bowl--but it wasnt chopped liver.

By the way ... look at the 2009 season. At the end of the regular season (after CCG's), TCU from the MWC was ranked #3 in the AP poll, and Boise St from the WAC was ranked #6.

Both went on to play in the Fiesta Bowl that year, and that was when there were only 10 slots (they had split the national championship game out, by that time). So it is possible for two undefeated G5 to make it ...

In today's terms, it would take an undefeated MWC champ and an undefeated AAC champ, each with probably at least one P5 win non-conf, and no independents in the top 12 as well (Notre Dame, BYU, etc.). Would also require a committee that was understanding and felt both deserved to be ranked in top 12.

(06-12-2017 11:05 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  By the way ... look at the 2009 season. At the end of the regular season (after CCG's), TCU from the MWC was ranked #3 in the AP poll, and Boise St from the WAC was ranked #6.

Both went on to play in the Fiesta Bowl that year, and that was when there were only 10 slots (they had split the national championship game out, by that time). So it is possible for two undefeated G5 to make it ...

In today's terms, it would take an undefeated MWC champ and an undefeated AAC champ, each with probably at least one P5 win non-conf, and no independents in the top 12 as well (Notre Dame, BYU, etc.). Would also require a committee that was understanding and felt both deserved to be ranked in top 12.

Cincinnati had an undefeated regular season in 2009 as well and played in the Sugar Bowl. Of course, they were in the Big East at the time.

(06-12-2017 11:05 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  By the way ... look at the 2009 season. At the end of the regular season (after CCG's), TCU from the MWC was ranked #3 in the AP poll, and Boise St from the WAC was ranked #6.

Both went on to play in the Fiesta Bowl that year, and that was when there were only 10 slots (they had split the national championship game out, by that time). So it is possible for two undefeated G5 to make it ...

In today's terms, it would take an undefeated MWC champ and an undefeated AAC champ, each with probably at least one P5 win non-conf, and no independents in the top 12 as well (Notre Dame, BYU, etc.). Would also require a committee that was understanding and felt both deserved to be ranked in top 12.

Given that the composition of the CFP is stacked virtually from top to bottom with P5 reps (I think there is only one person with any G5 ties), I think its very unlikely a G5 makes a playoff or gets an access bowl slot. This is a group that hasn't found a single G5 worthy of the top 10 in 3 years and ranked an undefeated WMU behind several 3-loss teams as well as one FOUR LOSS team.

Bottom line---in the unlikely event that there are two undefeated G5's and in the even more unlikely event BOTH are given slots in NYD bowls---expect them to be playing against one another (ie--Boise vs TCU). You know how this stuff works.....

Sure, fine. But DefConn was talking about two undefeated G5 scaring the CFP and/or ESPN. I really doubt that would be the case.

He didn't say both G5 playing P5 teams in separate NY6 bowls, or a G5 making the playoff. That's moving the goal posts.

(06-12-2017 12:15 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Sure, fine. But DefConn was talking about two undefeated G5 scaring the CFP and/or ESPN. I really doubt that would be the case.

He didn't say both G5 playing P5 teams in separate NY6 bowls, or a G5 making the playoff. That's moving the goal posts.

Because that starts the conversation, and we saw with the BCS/CFP what happens when the conversation gets started. So 2 undefeated G5's will, not might, scare the crap out of the P5 more than ESPN. However if ESPN wants to keep making a mint, and get the FCC/Congress off their butts, they'd be wise to not have the appearance of "class warfare".

Conversation is great for ESPN. Gives it ratings for is talk shows (so many talk shows ....).

You could ask the CFP to make a rule that would essentially guarantee two undefeated G5 be ranked in the top 12, but not sure anyone wants that.

I was curious about the Wyoming comment, so I did a little digging and found this:

http://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/b...g-football

(06-10-2017 07:59 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 09:03 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 07:55 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(06-09-2017 01:23 AM)ColKurtz Wrote:  NY6 bowls are consolation prizes for 3-4 of the P5 conferences. An undefeated G5 team qualifying for a consolation prize doth not make them P5.

Excellent point! Taking it a step further, to remain in the upper tier, a P5 conference must regularly put schools in the CFP itself and pick up multiple NY6 invites each year.

That's mainly the reason the Big East was always on the fringe or talked about as being undeserving. During Big East 2.0, there wasn't consistently a national champ contender and there were years the BE champ wasn't deserving of an AQ bowl.

FWIW I think the system we have now accurately reflects expectations -- it doesn't consider that multiple conference winners from the American, MWC et. al. are deserving but usually one of them would be. That's its glaring weakness as I see it. If there are 2 undefeated G5 champs, one of them went undefeated the wrong year.

There wasn't a national title contender because of how biased the polls were.

Yes the polls are biased, but when you look at the bad years for the Big East ... Pittsburgh in 2004 and Connecticut in 2010, they were simply in over their heads, but playing the game assigned to them because of the AQ the Big East had. The teams looked like they simply didn't belong there.

Even one of the Cincinnati Orange Bowl teams looked horrible in the game, but they had also lost their coach. The Cincy teams were ranked high going into the bowl games though. Pitt was ranked 21 and UConn was virtually unranked (AP 25 but no ranking in the BCS) heading into the Fiesta Bowl.

2009 Cincy was undefeated and ranked #3 in the BCS going into the bowls. Lost Brian Kelly to Notre Dame before the bowl game, and flopped hard against Florida.

Somewhat similar thing happened in 2012 to N Illinois, who beat everyone in the regular season except a one-point loss to Iowa to open things up at Soldier Field. Then NC State takes the head coach before the bowl game, and they flop hard in the bowl.

Both Kelly and Doeren are still at Notre Dame and NC State, respectively. NC State is a tough gig ... pretty much stuck behind Louisville, FL St, and Clemson in the division, and UNC has been tough the last few years as a cross-division rival.

(06-12-2017 02:23 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  I was curious about the Wyoming comment, so I did a little digging and found this:

http://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/b...g-football

That was a good article about those times and that incident.

On another note, if the MWC and the AAC both had undefeated teams they would probably pair them up like they did when TCU from the MW and Boise from the WAC had both undefeated. That avoided the P5 from having 2 top dogs beaten by non power teams.


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(06-12-2017 03:33 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  2009 Cincy was undefeated and ranked #3 in the BCS going into the bowls. Lost Brian Kelly to Notre Dame before the bowl game, and flopped hard against Florida.

Somewhat similar thing happened in 2012 to N Illinois, who beat everyone in the regular season except a one-point loss to Iowa to open things up at Soldier Field. Then NC State takes the head coach before the bowl game, and they flop hard in the bowl.

Both Kelly and Doeren are still at Notre Dame and NC State, respectively. NC State is a tough gig ... pretty much stuck behind Louisville, FL St, and Clemson in the division, and UNC has been tough the last few years as a cross-division rival.

They don't get the credit they deserve, but that Florida team was loaded. Cincinnati, OTOH, gets ripped for getting blown out (as if they are the only team to ever get blown out in a bowl game). Florida returned basically the same team that had won the national title in 2008 and were ranked #1 all season long until losing to Alabama in the SEC CCG. That Florida squad had Tim Tebow, Aaron Hernandez, both Pouncy Brothers, Brandon Spikes, Carlos Dunlop, Joe Haden and several other future NFL'ers.

On top of all that, it was Tebow's last game and Urban Meyer announced he was leaving Gainsville for health reasons. It had all the makings of a disaster for anyone playing them. IMHO they easily beat Alabama in a re-match.

(06-13-2017 08:43 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-12-2017 03:33 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  2009 Cincy was undefeated and ranked #3 in the BCS going into the bowls. Lost Brian Kelly to Notre Dame before the bowl game, and flopped hard against Florida.

Somewhat similar thing happened in 2012 to N Illinois, who beat everyone in the regular season except a one-point loss to Iowa to open things up at Soldier Field. Then NC State takes the head coach before the bowl game, and they flop hard in the bowl.

Both Kelly and Doeren are still at Notre Dame and NC State, respectively. NC State is a tough gig ... pretty much stuck behind Louisville, FL St, and Clemson in the division, and UNC has been tough the last few years as a cross-division rival.

They don't get the credit they deserve, but that Florida team was loaded. Cincinnati, OTOH, gets ripped for getting blown out (as if they are the only team to ever get blown out in a bowl game). Florida returned basically the same team that had won the national title in 2008 and were ranked #1 all season long until losing to Alabama in the SEC CCG. That Florida squad had Tim Tebow, Aaron Hernandez, both Pouncy Brothers, Brandon Spikes, Carlos Dunlop, Joe Haden and several other future NFL'ers.

On top of all that, it was Tebow's last game and Urban Meyer announced he was leaving Gainsville for health reasons. It had all the makings of a disaster for anyone playing them. IMHO they easily beat Alabama in a re-match.

Nobody in the country could have reasonably expected to beat Florida in that bowl, and only a few teams could have expected to avoid s blowout.

Bless the AAC's little heart.

Great point.

If it wasn't for the refs stealing the Big 12 CCG away from Nebraska -- which won the game, and beat previously undefeated Texas, but the refs gave Texas extra time to kick the game winning field goal -- then I wonder if we would've had Alabama v Florida re-match for national title or if they would've put TCU or Cincy in the national title game vs Bama???

(06-13-2017 09:42 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Great point.

If it wasn't for the refs stealing the Big 12 CCG away from Nebraska -- which won the game, and beat previously undefeated Texas, but the refs gave Texas extra time to kick the game winning field goal -- then I wonder if we would've had Alabama v Florida re-match for national title or if they would've put TCU or Cincy in the national title game vs Bama???

That's a point Cincinnati fans still talk about to this day. Alabama was #1 in the BCS Poll so they would have faced either TCU or Cincinnati in the NCG.

What UC fans discuss was what would have been the fate of Brian Kelly had UC made it to the NCG. He most certainly would have coached that game. The question would be whether Notre Dame would have passed on him as a result and hired a different candidate (they told him his job offer was contingent on him not coaching the Sugar Bowl and begin recruiting).

I don't think 2009 UC would have beaten Alabama. However, I don't think they would have been beaten as soundly as they were against the Gators. If Notre Dame passed on Kelly, would he have taken another gig immediately after the game? I am not so sure. I think he would have stuck around for at least another season for the right job. BK was so popular in this town that UC would have sold out every game the following season. The conference situation might have gone a different direction when the Big East was raided for the second time.

(06-13-2017 09:54 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(06-13-2017 09:42 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Great point.

If it wasn't for the refs stealing the Big 12 CCG away from Nebraska -- which won the game, and beat previously undefeated Texas, but the refs gave Texas extra time to kick the game winning field goal -- then I wonder if we would've had Alabama v Florida re-match for national title or if they would've put TCU or Cincy in the national title game vs Bama???

That's a point Cincinnati fans still talk about to this day. Alabama was #1 in the BCS Poll so they would have faced either TCU or Cincinnati in the NCG.

What UC fans discuss was what would have been the fate of Brian Kelly had UC made it to the NCG. He most certainly would have coached that game. The question would be whether Notre Dame would have passed on him as a result and hired a different candidate (they told him his job offer was contingent on him not coaching the Sugar Bowl and begin recruiting).

I don't think 2009 UC would have beaten Alabama. However, I don't think they would have been beaten as soundly as they were against the Gators. If Notre Dame passed on Kelly, would he have taken another gig immediately after the game? I am not so sure. I think he would have stuck around for at least another season for the right job. BK was so popular in this town that UC would have sold out every game the following season. The conference situation might have gone a different direction when the Big East was raided for the second time.

Now that would've been an interesting scenario. That would have put Cincinnati in the running for the Big 12 as well. Would Cincinnati have taken the spot over WV? Would've the B12 had taken TCU, WV, Cincinnati & Louisville? If Cincinnati would have gotten the B12 spot instead of WV, who would have the ACC taken? WV or Louisville? What would have happened with FSU & Clemson if the ACC was stuck adding UCONN? Would the ACC have looked towards Houston instead of UCONN to appease FSU & Clemson?