http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideas...SKBN18Y284

If they want independence, now is the time, before ISIS is completely defeated. But I suspect the central government will fight this.

(06-07-2017 06:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideas...SKBN18Y284

If they want independence, now is the time, before ISIS is completely defeated. But I suspect the central government will fight this.

Turks aint going to like it either.

Neither well the Iranians.

Check-Mate on Iran! Big warning to Russia, Turkey on Syria. Winners - The Kurd's! Art of The deal 101!

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Kurds have had it rough yet they seem to be our biggest ally in the fight against ISIS doing most of the actual fighting.

It will mos definitely happen in Iraq. They are already self governed there and have been for years. Only question is whether Turkey allows it to extend into Syria to areas that they already control after Assad pulled back.

The traditional boundaries of Kurdistan extend well into Turky and Syria, over a large swath of Iraq and into northwestern Iran. It's one of those historical messes caused by redrawing boundaries via treaties.

(06-07-2017 08:45 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 06:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideas...SKBN18Y284

If they want independence, now is the time, before ISIS is completely defeated. But I suspect the central government will fight this.

Turks aint going to like it either.

Turks ain't gonna allow it.

(06-08-2017 08:57 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 08:45 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 06:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideas...SKBN18Y284

If they want independence, now is the time, before ISIS is completely defeated. But I suspect the central government will fight this.

Turks aint going to like it either.

Turks ain't gonna allow it.

Actually, they've been pretty favorable as far as Iraq is concerned. They will get the oil pipelines and the port activity.

(06-08-2017 07:00 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Kurds have had it rough yet they seem to be our biggest ally in the fight against ISIS doing most of the actual fighting.

Yup. I like the idea of rewarding our reliable allies. Give the Kurds a homeland. And make them part of NATO. Lol, that ought keep things lively.

In all seriousness---Iraq doesn't work because Iraq isn't a real nation. It was a construct of the post WWII era and, while we were trying to make a better world, we got this one wrong. Slice Iraq into 3 seperate nations and you'll end up with a lot less strife.

(06-08-2017 09:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 08:57 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 08:45 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 06:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideas...SKBN18Y284

If they want independence, now is the time, before ISIS is completely defeated. But I suspect the central government will fight this.

Turks aint going to like it either.

Turks ain't gonna allow it.

Actually, they've been pretty favorable as far as Iraq is concerned. They will get the oil pipelines and the port activity.

Maybe if all the Kurd land is in Iraq. None of it will be allowed to be in Turkey.

(06-08-2017 10:18 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 09:14 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 08:57 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 08:45 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 06:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideas...SKBN18Y284

If they want independence, now is the time, before ISIS is completely defeated. But I suspect the central government will fight this.

Turks aint going to like it either.

Turks ain't gonna allow it.

Actually, they've been pretty favorable as far as Iraq is concerned. They will get the oil pipelines and the port activity.

Maybe if all the Kurd land is in Iraq. None of it will be allowed to be in Turkey.

Precisely. They are very opposed to Kurdish independence or autonomy in Syria or Turkey. But the Iraqi Kurds and Syrian/Turkish Kurds have been at odds, so they are ok with an Iraqi Kurdistan.

Imagine how different our world would be if we hadn't foolishly invaded Iraq.

(06-08-2017 10:55 AM)Rob Wrote:  Imagine how different our world would be if we hadn't foolishly invaded Iraq.

Could easily be worse. Sadaam with money is not a good thing. Or he could have been overthrown as Qaddaffi was.

Iraq was not stable. The only question was when it would blow up.
Even Turkey is starting to blow up.

(06-08-2017 11:17 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 10:55 AM)Rob Wrote:  Imagine how different our world would be if we hadn't foolishly invaded Iraq.

Could easily be worse. Sadaam with money is not a good thing. Or he could have been overthrown as Qaddaffi was.

Iraq was not stable. The only question was when it would blow up.
Even Turkey is starting to blow up.

Exactly. Iraq isnt a real nation because its not representative of a cohesive population. It was a arbitrary construct that didnt really understand the real situation on the ground. The only way it stayed "stable" as long as it did is it was run by a powerful dictator that killed any political threat before it could develop. Once the dictator was gone, the bottled up sectarian strife spilled out into the open.

Nice spin. The Iraq invasion was terrible for the world.

(06-08-2017 11:59 AM)Rob Wrote:  Nice spin. The Iraq invasion was terrible for the world.

Ehh. The invasion could have/should have ended better. The issue is we made the exact same mistake made after WW2. We rebuilt Iraq based on outside political requirements. Turkey absolutely did not want a Kurdish state. The reality on the ground is Iraq really needs to be 3 separate states. Until it is, its going to be virtually impossible to govern effectively.

(06-08-2017 01:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 11:59 AM)Rob Wrote:  Nice spin. The Iraq invasion was terrible for the world.

Ehh. The invasion could have/should have ended better. The issue is we made the exact same mistake made after WW2. We rebuilt Iraq based on outside political requirements. Turkey absolutely did not want a Kurdish state. The reality on the ground is Iraq really needs to be 3 separate states. Until it is, its going to be virtually impossible to govern effectively.

We're doing the same thing in Bosnia.

(06-08-2017 10:06 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 07:00 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Kurds have had it rough yet they seem to be our biggest ally in the fight against ISIS doing most of the actual fighting.

Yup. I like the idea of rewarding our reliable allies. Give the Kurds a homeland. And make them part of NATO. Lol, that ought keep things lively.

In all seriousness---Iraq doesn't work because Iraq isn't a real nation. It was a construct of the post WWII era and, while we were trying to make a better world, we got this one wrong. Slice Iraq into 3 seperate nations and you'll end up with a lot less strife.

This already should of happened 10 years ago.

(06-08-2017 02:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 01:56 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 11:59 AM)Rob Wrote:  Nice spin. The Iraq invasion was terrible for the world.

Ehh. The invasion could have/should have ended better. The issue is we made the exact same mistake made after WW2. We rebuilt Iraq based on outside political requirements. Turkey absolutely did not want a Kurdish state. The reality on the ground is Iraq really needs to be 3 separate states. Until it is, its going to be virtually impossible to govern effectively.

We're doing the same thing in Bosnia.

Yup.

(06-08-2017 10:06 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Yup. I like the idea of rewarding our reliable allies. Give the Kurds a homeland. And make them part of NATO. Lol, that ought keep things lively.
In all seriousness---Iraq doesn't work because Iraq isn't a real nation. It was a construct of the post WWII era and, while we were trying to make a better world, we got this one wrong. Slice Iraq into 3 seperate nations and you'll end up with a lot less strife.

Actually, post WWI. And it is a little more complex than even that. The original deal was that what is now northern Iraq, including the Kurdish homeland, was supposed to go to Syria under French administration, but the Brits took it away from them at San Remo.

That led eventually to Total, Shell, and Gulf getting parts of BP's concession in Iraq, along with "Mr. Five Percent," Calouste Gulbenkian. It's an interesting story.