(06-06-2017 12:24 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  One other thing... when you play in an NBA-esque arena, you lose most of your "college basketball environment" - AKA your home-court advantage. Basically it's quiet as a library in those places. Going to a BJ game in Omaha was akin to a relaxing day at the park. Come to Koch Arena and you won't hear normal for a good hour and a half afterwards. Our arena has been compared to Cameron Indoor (Duke) by the coaching staff of another ACC team that visited. You can feel the energy in your bones. I've actually measured the decibels. It's dangerous.


T


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Memphis is different. Even though its an NBA arena, is very much a memphis basketball home court when they play.

(06-06-2017 12:19 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Definitely no "sweetheart" deal with the Grizzlies and the FedEx. Lots of potential revenue not being captured. The question you have to ask: does the increased attendance playing at the FedEx make up for what could be earned at a smaller on-campus arena where you own everything (do you guys have an on-campus arena?)

I made a career out of hammering the BJ's (Creighton) back in the MVC over their rented arena in Omaha. While it was funny to me and incensed them, they went from averaging 5k per game in their old arena to nearly 15k in the CenturyLink Arena or whatever it's called now. The people in Omaha are so bored they will literally go to anything that comes to their city's arena. They hold the attendance world record in Olympic women's swimming trials... So moving to the new venue was a no-brainer for them as they instantly tripled the amount of people going to the games. The net revenue they earn pales in comparison to what we bring in at Koch Arena (10.5k packed every night), it was most certainly the correct move in their situation. Their situation being a broke dick tiny Jesuit school living under the shadow of Nebraska everything. The Shockers own Wichita, Ks., The BJ does not own Omaha... not even close.


T


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I think most Memphis fans would agree with you. We would be happier with a smaller stadium on campus or the fair grounds.

(06-06-2017 12:19 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Definitely no "sweetheart" deal with the Grizzlies and the FedEx. Lots of potential revenue not being captured. The question you have to ask: does the increased attendance playing at the FedEx make up for what could be earned at a smaller on-campus arena where you own everything (do you guys have an on-campus arena?)

I made a career out of hammering the BJ's (Creighton) back in the MVC over their rented arena in Omaha. While it was funny to me and incensed them, they went from averaging 5k per game in their old arena to nearly 15k in the CenturyLink Arena or whatever it's called now. The people in Omaha are so bored they will literally go to anything that comes to their city's arena. They hold the attendance world record in Olympic women's swimming trials... So moving to the new venue was a no-brainer for them as they instantly tripled the amount of people going to the games. The net revenue they earn pales in comparison to what we bring in at Koch Arena (10.5k packed every night), it was most certainly the correct move in their situation. Their situation being a broke dick tiny Jesuit school living under the shadow of Nebraska everything. The Shockers own Wichita, Ks., The BJ does not own Omaha... not even close.


T


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You mentioned the lower figure of Wichita's basketball budget figure in the context that Wichita pays no rent, and questioned whether Memphis or UConn's higher budget is offset by any rent they pay.

The answer for Memphis is no. The school pays no rent. The school and the fans consider it a sweetheart deal to be playing in a state of the art NBA arena for no rent and no maintenance or facility indebtedness payments.

(06-06-2017 12:39 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 12:24 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  One other thing... when you play in an NBA-esque arena, you lose most of your "college basketball environment" - AKA your home-court advantage. Basically it's quiet as a library in those places. Going to a BJ game in Omaha was akin to a relaxing day at the park. Come to Koch Arena and you won't hear normal for a good hour and a half afterwards. Our arena has been compared to Cameron Indoor (Duke) by the coaching staff of another ACC team that visited. You can feel the energy in your bones. I've actually measured the decibels. It's dangerous.


T


...

Memphis is different. Even though its an NBA arena, is very much a memphis basketball home court when they play.

Agreed. Up until the last three years Memphis averaged over 16,000 and was routinely in the top 10-15 nationally in attendance.

(06-06-2017 01:39 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 12:19 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Definitely no "sweetheart" deal with the Grizzlies and the FedEx. Lots of potential revenue not being captured. The question you have to ask: does the increased attendance playing at the FedEx make up for what could be earned at a smaller on-campus arena where you own everything (do you guys have an on-campus arena?)

I made a career out of hammering the BJ's (Creighton) back in the MVC over their rented arena in Omaha. While it was funny to me and incensed them, they went from averaging 5k per game in their old arena to nearly 15k in the CenturyLink Arena or whatever it's called now. The people in Omaha are so bored they will literally go to anything that comes to their city's arena. They hold the attendance world record in Olympic women's swimming trials... So moving to the new venue was a no-brainer for them as they instantly tripled the amount of people going to the games. The net revenue they earn pales in comparison to what we bring in at Koch Arena (10.5k packed every night), it was most certainly the correct move in their situation. Their situation being a broke dick tiny Jesuit school living under the shadow of Nebraska everything. The Shockers own Wichita, Ks., The BJ does not own Omaha... not even close.


T


...

You mentioned the lower figure of Wichita's basketball budget figure in the context that Wichita pays no rent, and questioned whether Memphis or UConn's higher budget is offset by any rent they pay.

The answer for Memphis is no. The school pays no rent. The school and the fans consider it a sweetheart deal to be playing in a state of the art NBA arena for no rent and no maintenance or facility indebtedness payments.

Rent is not the only expense, and if I read the above financial disclosure correctly, your school pays 10k of the 30k expense to play at the arena (you get a few free games). You also lose advertising, concession, parking, and some luxury suite revenue. No sweetheart deal for the university.


T


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(06-06-2017 01:49 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 12:39 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 12:24 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  One other thing... when you play in an NBA-esque arena, you lose most of your "college basketball environment" - AKA your home-court advantage. Basically it's quiet as a library in those places. Going to a BJ game in Omaha was akin to a relaxing day at the park. Come to Koch Arena and you won't hear normal for a good hour and a half afterwards. Our arena has been compared to Cameron Indoor (Duke) by the coaching staff of another ACC team that visited. You can feel the energy in your bones. I've actually measured the decibels. It's dangerous.


T


...

Memphis is different. Even though its an NBA arena, is very much a memphis basketball home court when they play.

Agreed. Up until the last three years Memphis averaged over 16,000 and was routinely in the top 10-15 nationally in attendance.

We play an annual downtown game in our city's arena. This building has a lower ceiling than most facilities (supposedly an acoustic advantage) and we play to a capacity crowd of 15k. It might have 25% of the volume that Koch Arena has if it's lucky. Nice gentle roars when good things happen. At Koch it's more like a high-pitched shriek with bass. It's really comfortable at IBA though.


T


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Opposing teams (trying to win) usually make special preparations before visiting our barn. They utilize blaring loudspeakers with white noise, coaches screaming in ears during plays, real game footage, etc. The point of the exercise is to prove to the players that you won't be able to communicate verbally most times during the game.

Unfortunately (fortunately for us) most teams cannot prepare for the smothering defense and rebounding they'll have to endure for 40. A fanbase that cheers as much for the floor burn hustle plays as they do the breakaway dunk is an unusual environmental characteristic as well.

I'm the Shocker Hypemaster, but I could never overhype the Koch Arena environment.


T


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The MW just passed new requirements for OOC basketball scheduling. That's what we should be doing instead of announcing P6 brochures. The "improve OOC basketball scheduling" goal in the brochure is great---but it requires actual action before it will happen. We need More action---and less talk.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/unl...schedules/

(06-06-2017 02:55 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Opposing teams (trying to win) usually make special preparations before visiting our barn. They utilize blaring loudspeakers with white noise, coaches screaming in ears during plays, real game footage, etc. The point of the exercise is to prove to the players that you won't be able to communicate verbally most times during the game.

Unfortunately (fortunately for us) most teams cannot prepare for the smothering defense and rebounding they'll have to endure for 40. A fanbase that cheers as much for the floor burn hustle plays as they do the breakaway dunk is an unusual environmental characteristic as well.

I'm the Shocker Hypemaster, but I could never overhype the Koch Arena environment.


T


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(06-06-2017 02:36 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 01:39 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 12:19 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Definitely no "sweetheart" deal with the Grizzlies and the FedEx. Lots of potential revenue not being captured. The question you have to ask: does the increased attendance playing at the FedEx make up for what could be earned at a smaller on-campus arena where you own everything (do you guys have an on-campus arena?)

I made a career out of hammering the BJ's (Creighton) back in the MVC over their rented arena in Omaha. While it was funny to me and incensed them, they went from averaging 5k per game in their old arena to nearly 15k in the CenturyLink Arena or whatever it's called now. The people in Omaha are so bored they will literally go to anything that comes to their city's arena. They hold the attendance world record in Olympic women's swimming trials... So moving to the new venue was a no-brainer for them as they instantly tripled the amount of people going to the games. The net revenue they earn pales in comparison to what we bring in at Koch Arena (10.5k packed every night), it was most certainly the correct move in their situation. Their situation being a broke dick tiny Jesuit school living under the shadow of Nebraska everything. The Shockers own Wichita, Ks., The BJ does not own Omaha... not even close.


T


...

You mentioned the lower figure of Wichita's basketball budget figure in the context that Wichita pays no rent, and questioned whether Memphis or UConn's higher budget is offset by any rent they pay.

The answer for Memphis is no. The school pays no rent. The school and the fans consider it a sweetheart deal to be playing in a state of the art NBA arena for no rent and no maintenance or facility indebtedness payments.

Rent is not the only expense, and if I read the above financial disclosure correctly, your school pays 10k of the 30k expense to play at the arena (you get a few free games). You also lose advertising, concession, parking, and some luxury suite revenue. No sweetheart deal for the university.


T


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Do you not realize that owning the building you play in doesn't mean it's free? Maintenance costs for any facility are significant. They just spent half a million dollars changing out the lighting. It's not cheap to maintain a 50 year-old building.

Two points. Memphis receives hundreds of thousands a year in bonus payments (I forget the exact number) from the Grizzlies for meeting attendance goals. The floor is 6K a game season average, actual turnstile count. That brings us $600K or $800K, I think. Higher numbers bring more money, up to a certain ceiling around $1.2M, IIRC. Somebody correct me on the details, if I'm off a bit.

Second, when our teams are good, as others have mentioned, that place is packed with 18K, and rocking. It was like that through the second half of Calipari's tenure, for sure. Right now our team sucks. We'll get it back at some point. But even if the crowds are smaller, assuming we play well in any particular game, it still gets fairly noisy.

for the money Memphis spends they aren't getting much of a return...

(06-06-2017 02:36 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 01:39 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 12:19 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Definitely no "sweetheart" deal with the Grizzlies and the FedEx. Lots of potential revenue not being captured. The question you have to ask: does the increased attendance playing at the FedEx make up for what could be earned at a smaller on-campus arena where you own everything (do you guys have an on-campus arena?)

I made a career out of hammering the BJ's (Creighton) back in the MVC over their rented arena in Omaha. While it was funny to me and incensed them, they went from averaging 5k per game in their old arena to nearly 15k in the CenturyLink Arena or whatever it's called now. The people in Omaha are so bored they will literally go to anything that comes to their city's arena. They hold the attendance world record in Olympic women's swimming trials... So moving to the new venue was a no-brainer for them as they instantly tripled the amount of people going to the games. The net revenue they earn pales in comparison to what we bring in at Koch Arena (10.5k packed every night), it was most certainly the correct move in their situation. Their situation being a broke dick tiny Jesuit school living under the shadow of Nebraska everything. The Shockers own Wichita, Ks., The BJ does not own Omaha... not even close.


T


...

You mentioned the lower figure of Wichita's basketball budget figure in the context that Wichita pays no rent, and questioned whether Memphis or UConn's higher budget is offset by any rent they pay.

The answer for Memphis is no. The school pays no rent. The school and the fans consider it a sweetheart deal to be playing in a state of the art NBA arena for no rent and no maintenance or facility indebtedness payments.

Rent is not the only expense, and if I read the above financial disclosure correctly, your school pays 10k of the 30k expense to play at the arena (you get a few free games). You also lose advertising, concession, parking, and some luxury suite revenue. No sweetheart deal for the university.


T


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If Memphis got the revenue from those items, its budget would be even higher. Was that your point?

No one here gives two hoots about where Creighton plays. You seem to be stuck in a MVC mindset.

(06-07-2017 06:30 AM)cotton1991 Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 02:36 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 01:39 PM)cotton1991 Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 12:19 PM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  Definitely no "sweetheart" deal with the Grizzlies and the FedEx. Lots of potential revenue not being captured. The question you have to ask: does the increased attendance playing at the FedEx make up for what could be earned at a smaller on-campus arena where you own everything (do you guys have an on-campus arena?)

I made a career out of hammering the BJ's (Creighton) back in the MVC over their rented arena in Omaha. While it was funny to me and incensed them, they went from averaging 5k per game in their old arena to nearly 15k in the CenturyLink Arena or whatever it's called now. The people in Omaha are so bored they will literally go to anything that comes to their city's arena. They hold the attendance world record in Olympic women's swimming trials... So moving to the new venue was a no-brainer for them as they instantly tripled the amount of people going to the games. The net revenue they earn pales in comparison to what we bring in at Koch Arena (10.5k packed every night), it was most certainly the correct move in their situation. Their situation being a broke dick tiny Jesuit school living under the shadow of Nebraska everything. The Shockers own Wichita, Ks., The BJ does not own Omaha... not even close.


T


...

You mentioned the lower figure of Wichita's basketball budget figure in the context that Wichita pays no rent, and questioned whether Memphis or UConn's higher budget is offset by any rent they pay.

The answer for Memphis is no. The school pays no rent. The school and the fans consider it a sweetheart deal to be playing in a state of the art NBA arena for no rent and no maintenance or facility indebtedness payments.

Rent is not the only expense, and if I read the above financial disclosure correctly, your school pays 10k of the 30k expense to play at the arena (you get a few free games). You also lose advertising, concession, parking, and some luxury suite revenue. No sweetheart deal for the university.


T


...

If Memphis got the revenue from those items, its budget would be even higher. Was that your point?

No one here gives two hoots about where Creighton plays. You seem to be stuck in a MVC mindset.

One of the points, perhaps the point you are referring to, is that many teams in the country rent their arenas. Every team has a different agreement with their landlord. The difference between total revenue and net revenue could be significant in some situations. "Budgets" may not always present an accurate indication of the kinds of investment that actually makes a program better.

My statement earlier about the Shockers perhaps making a greater investment in "value-added" program improvements than some of the schools listed as having a larger budget in other conferences was not directed at any specific AAC school and certainly not UM which has substantial support. The reference to Creighton was regarding past discussions and their "sold out" games where large swaths of seating was filled with continual giveaway promotions. They were cooking the books (budget). The move to the downtown arena was still a net gain for them by a long shot based merely on added exposure alone.


T


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(06-06-2017 10:15 AM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

Quote:7. AMERICAN ATHLETIC CONFERENCE
2016-17 RPI- #7
Average Budget: $6,278,593 (w/Wichita State)
NCAA Bids Last Season: (2)
1. Memphis $11,226,419
2. Connecticut $9,516,308
3. Cincinnati $7,421,986
4. SMU $7,086,547
5. Wichita State $6,920,933
6. Tulsa $6,174,244
7. Houston $6,023,125
8. Temple $5,920,903
9. South Florida $4,711,026
10. Tulane $3,987,379
11. East Carolina $3,187,963
12. UCF $3,166,282


12. MISSOURI VALLEY CONFERENCE (W/O Wichita State)
2016-17 RPI- #12
Average Budget: $2,561,900
NCAA Bids Last Season: (1)
1. Bradley $3,128,419
2. Northern Iowa $2,899,699
3. Evansville $ 2,899,667
4. Loyola $ 2,745,553
5. Valpo $2,666,213
6. Drake $2,472,212
7. Illinois State $2,452,961
8. Missouri State $2,279,917
9. Southern Ill $2,241,413
10. Indiana State $1,832,975

$6,278,593 versus $2,561,900

All I have to say is, The Shockers - and I - are very happy to be in the American Athletic Conference!

So long broke dicks!

P.S. If the Shockers receive any benefit from joining this conference, which they should, expect our budget to start approaching the $8M mark in the near future.

P.S.S. Does Memphis and UConn own their own arenas? The Shockers own theirs so they aren't losing a dime on rent, concessions, advertising, etc. Our "effective" budget might be a LOT higher than many schools listed above us.


T


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I'd much rather lease a Cadillac over owning a Yugo...Memphis pays essentially zero rent at FedExForum.

The most important point that should be emphasized regardless if a team flat out loses money in a particular venue is whether or not said venue helps you notch another win versus the alternative. It's all about getting to the NCAA's, so whatever gets you more wins is a good thing - cup holders be damned.


T


...

(06-07-2017 10:22 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 10:15 AM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  

Quote:7. AMERICAN ATHLETIC CONFERENCE
2016-17 RPI- #7
Average Budget: $6,278,593 (w/Wichita State)
NCAA Bids Last Season: (2)
1. Memphis $11,226,419
2. Connecticut $9,516,308
3. Cincinnati $7,421,986
4. SMU $7,086,547
5. Wichita State $6,920,933
6. Tulsa $6,174,244
7. Houston $6,023,125
8. Temple $5,920,903
9. South Florida $4,711,026
10. Tulane $3,987,379
11. East Carolina $3,187,963
12. UCF $3,166,282


12. MISSOURI VALLEY CONFERENCE (W/O Wichita State)
2016-17 RPI- #12
Average Budget: $2,561,900
NCAA Bids Last Season: (1)
1. Bradley $3,128,419
2. Northern Iowa $2,899,699
3. Evansville $ 2,899,667
4. Loyola $ 2,745,553
5. Valpo $2,666,213
6. Drake $2,472,212
7. Illinois State $2,452,961
8. Missouri State $2,279,917
9. Southern Ill $2,241,413
10. Indiana State $1,832,975

$6,278,593 versus $2,561,900

All I have to say is, The Shockers - and I - are very happy to be in the American Athletic Conference!

So long broke dicks!

P.S. If the Shockers receive any benefit from joining this conference, which they should, expect our budget to start approaching the $8M mark in the near future.

P.S.S. Does Memphis and UConn own their own arenas? The Shockers own theirs so they aren't losing a dime on rent, concessions, advertising, etc. Our "effective" budget might be a LOT higher than many schools listed above us.


T


...

I'd much rather lease a Cadillac over owning a Yugo...Memphis pays essentially zero rent at FedExForum.

No one says you have to own a Yugo now... I actually saw one of those driving around the other day. It must be the lone remaining unit on the planet.


T


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(06-07-2017 10:25 AM)C0|db|00ded Wrote:  The most important point that should be emphasized regardless if a team flat out loses money in a particular venue is whether or not said venue helps you notch another win versus the alternative. It's all about getting to the NCAA's, so whatever gets you more wins is a good thing - cup holders be damned.


T


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our record since 2004 (when we moved to FedExForum) makes it abundantly clear that FEF helps Memphis.

the Tigers pay 10,000 per game to use FedExForum...Memphis is required to play 18 home games...Memphis keeps seat revenue...Grizz get parking/concessions/suite sales.

Memphis gets a annual payment from the Grizzlies based on attendance. If we average 10k or over (actual attendance) we get 800,000 dollars...that amount is prorated down to 6000 actual attendance per game.

Memphis essentially plays for free at FedExForum.

I apologize to all of you for co|db|ooded. His notoriety precedes him.

(06-07-2017 02:00 PM)shocks21 Wrote:  I apologize to all of you for co|db|ooded. His notoriety precedes him.

He's starting to make me wish I hadn't changed my mind about the WSU addition this last year. "Insufferable" is the word that keeps coming to mind.