I didn't know utep didn't have a baseball team, this they should have, just seems to me El Paso would be a good place to attract bb talent

(06-07-2017 07:46 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 07:02 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 10:41 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  This thread was side tracked near the start.

WHAT is wrong with UTEP?


Bob Stull.Bob Stull. Bob Stull. Got it? Good.

72 years old. AD since 1998. Mediocre results for years. Needs to "retire".

If I was a UTEP fan I would harp on this point and gather others who agreed till the pressure caused a movement.

Pretty simple to identify the problem.

How has this guy kept his job? Mr. Mediocre.

[UTEP has or has had facilities,support,and past success.]

That's pretty much what a lot of Miner fans think. There was a minor Miner campaign from a fan message board that sent complaining emails to the UTEP president that was loud enough to elicit replies from her office. The replies suggested that the university is aware that athletics are important to the community, blah blah blah. The president is responsible for leaving Bob Stull in his job too long and Stull is responsible for leaving coaches in their jobs too long.

The current football coach, Kugler, hired by Stull who was Kugler's coach at UTEP back in the 80's. Kugler is trying to build a run oriented team and is in his 5th and last contract year. If another losing season is in store, something has to give. One winning season out of 5 can't justify keeping him any longer. On the other hand, if he coaches the team to bowl eligibility then an extension could be warranted. His plan of recruiting mostly high school players, redshirting most of them and building depth will have to show results on the field this year.

So, he was the AD when the MWC formed without taking UTEP AND the AD when they passed on the invite to join as the MWC was feared gutted, opting to stay in CUSA during the "merger" rumors?

Same guy?

Yikes. Ouch.

Yes, same guy. This linked article is what he and the president were banking on for conference affiliation. They both stated that it was a done deal, was going to happen and would be great for UTEP athletics.

mwc - cusa merger

Two months later the deal was dead. That would have been the time for UTEP to act in it's own self interest and make a deal with the MWC if possible.

(06-07-2017 07:51 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 07:02 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 10:41 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  This thread was side tracked near the start.

WHAT is wrong with UTEP?


Bob Stull.Bob Stull. Bob Stull. Got it? Good.

72 years old. AD since 1998. Mediocre results for years. Needs to "retire".

If I was a UTEP fan I would harp on this point and gather others who agreed till the pressure caused a movement.

Pretty simple to identify the problem.

How has this guy kept his job? Mr. Mediocre.

[UTEP has or has had facilities,support,and past success.]

That's pretty much what a lot of Miner fans think. There was a minor Miner campaign from a fan message board that sent complaining emails to the UTEP president that was loud enough to elicit replies from her office. The replies suggested that the university is aware that athletics are important to the community, blah blah blah. The president is responsible for leaving Bob Stull in his job too long and Stull is responsible for leaving coaches in their jobs too long.

The current football coach, Kugler, hired by Stull who was Kugler's coach at UTEP back in the 80's. Kugler is trying to build a run oriented team and is in his 5th and last contract year. If another losing season is in store, something has to give. One winning season out of 5 can't justify keeping him any longer. On the other hand, if he coaches the team to bowl eligibility then an extension could be warranted. His plan of recruiting mostly high school players, redshirting most of them and building depth will have to show results on the field this year.

These are strong points. And while the UTEP President is impressive, especially in academic circles, she is no Renu Khator for athletics. But she does share something very Texas - battling Austin for some of the rich funds directed to the Texas and Texas A&M systems. So she is trying to do it all for UTEP without the Big 12 income of Texas Tech, or the mega-donors in Houston.

She has done a great job transforming the UTEP campus and the research side of the university. She maintains that UTEP needs to remain basically an open enrollment school to address the needs of the area. Lots of students are the first in their family to attend college. It will have a very positive affect on the El Paso area. If she would be more demanding of her AD, that would please the fans to no end.

(06-07-2017 08:04 AM)JHS55 Wrote:  I didn't know utep didn't have a baseball team, this they should have, just seems to me El Paso would be a good place to attract bb talent

El Paso now has AAA baseball that draws very well in a new downtown baseball park. I'm sure a UTEP baseball team could arrange to use it so no new facilities would be necessary. Cost of additional coaches, scholarships for baseball and new women's sports plus new travel expenses may prevent it from happening. There has been some interest but no action yet.

(06-06-2017 08:10 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 04:56 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  It's easy to spot the posters on here who know about West Texas, El Paso etc and those who don't. You have to go to El Paso to know. It's nothing at all like east or central Texas. It's nothing like Amarillo, Lubbick, Midland Odessa. I go with another rule about what's Southern as well. The y'all rule. Only people saying y'all in El Paso saying y'all are soldiers at Bliss from somewhere else. Also the chili chilie rule. There is Texas kind and New Mexico Green or Red. El Paso has the latter. Folks in East Texas probably don't even know what I'm talking about.

There are some rare exceptions. I lived in Arkansas almost all of my first 36 years and I say "you guys" instead of "ya'll" and I like to sweat when I eat chilli. I've always said it was because I'm a Tucson native.

How'd you manage to pick up you guys in Arkansas????

I'm not a chain restaurant fan but Chuy's is the closest I can get to New Mexico food in Arkansas and when they have Hatch chili month I'd eat there every day if I could get away with it.

I seriously miss the food in Albuquerque.

(06-07-2017 08:12 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 07:46 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 07:02 AM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 10:41 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  This thread was side tracked near the start.

WHAT is wrong with UTEP?


Bob Stull.Bob Stull. Bob Stull. Got it? Good.

72 years old. AD since 1998. Mediocre results for years. Needs to "retire".

If I was a UTEP fan I would harp on this point and gather others who agreed till the pressure caused a movement.

Pretty simple to identify the problem.

How has this guy kept his job? Mr. Mediocre.

[UTEP has or has had facilities,support,and past success.]

That's pretty much what a lot of Miner fans think. There was a minor Miner campaign from a fan message board that sent complaining emails to the UTEP president that was loud enough to elicit replies from her office. The replies suggested that the university is aware that athletics are important to the community, blah blah blah. The president is responsible for leaving Bob Stull in his job too long and Stull is responsible for leaving coaches in their jobs too long.

The current football coach, Kugler, hired by Stull who was Kugler's coach at UTEP back in the 80's. Kugler is trying to build a run oriented team and is in his 5th and last contract year. If another losing season is in store, something has to give. One winning season out of 5 can't justify keeping him any longer. On the other hand, if he coaches the team to bowl eligibility then an extension could be warranted. His plan of recruiting mostly high school players, redshirting most of them and building depth will have to show results on the field this year.

So, he was the AD when the MWC formed without taking UTEP AND the AD when they passed on the invite to join as the MWC was feared gutted, opting to stay in CUSA during the "merger" rumors?

Same guy?

Yikes. Ouch.

Yes, same guy. This linked article is what he and the president were banking on for conference affiliation. They both stated that it was a done deal, was going to happen and would be great for UTEP athletics.

mwc - cusa merger

Two months later the deal was dead. That would have been the time for UTEP to act in it's own self interest and make a deal with the MWC if possible.

Thank you for this.

What a bad bet that was. I can't believe that even if there was a merger, why you wouldn't just move to MWC to get the old conference-mates back onto the schedule, since that was always desired. It just seems like a stupid decision, now more than ever without the context, even though there's a lot more to it.

I guess my question is: What has happened to the basketball program? They have always had at least decent teams until the last few years, now they are lousy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bob Stull tanked Missouri football as well.

(06-06-2017 06:01 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  Ok but green chilies grow better in west tx

1. Hatch, NM---no more debate needed in the chilie (red or green) argument.

2. For close to 20 years, UTEP had the Big 12 4 Texas schools above them. During this period, they were athletic peers with SMU, Houston, Rice & TCU. They were above North Texas and there wasn't UTSA or Texas St to compete with recruits for. Now UTEP stands here for recruits:
1.Texas
1. AtM
3. TCU
4. Texas Tech
5. Baylor
6. Houston
7. UTSA
8. SMU
9. Rice
10. North Texas
11. Texas St
12. UTEP
UTEP is 12th in football recruiting in Texas after being tied for 5th from 1996-2013.

3. UTEP made the worst decision in realignment history by not joining the MWC in 2013 when it seems like they could have. It's hurt them badly.

(06-07-2017 09:35 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 08:10 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 04:56 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  It's easy to spot the posters on here who know about West Texas, El Paso etc and those who don't. You have to go to El Paso to know. It's nothing at all like east or central Texas. It's nothing like Amarillo, Lubbick, Midland Odessa. I go with another rule about what's Southern as well. The y'all rule. Only people saying y'all in El Paso saying y'all are soldiers at Bliss from somewhere else. Also the chili chilie rule. There is Texas kind and New Mexico Green or Red. El Paso has the latter. Folks in East Texas probably don't even know what I'm talking about.

There are some rare exceptions. I lived in Arkansas almost all of my first 36 years and I say "you guys" instead of "ya'll" and I like to sweat when I eat chilli. I've always said it was because I'm a Tucson native.

How'd you manage to pick up you guys in Arkansas????

I'm not a chain restaurant fan but Chuy's is the closest I can get to New Mexico food in Arkansas and when they have Hatch chili month I'd eat there every day if I could get away with it.

I seriously miss the food in Albuquerque.

I wanted to feel more connected to my Tucson family so I copied some of their habits.

(06-07-2017 12:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  West Texas, northern plains, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, the northeast and the west coast are not oversaturating of football members. What I am pointing out if that schools like West Texas A&M, Hardin Simmons, UTPB, Angelo State and some others could help schools like UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State and so forth save some moneys to claw back out of the hole.

For Wyoming, the state has only 2 4-year schools. The other one is a catholic college that started in 2007, has about 150 students, and the campus facility is a church. Yeah, keep believing in your fantasy.

(06-07-2017 11:15 AM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 09:35 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 08:10 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 04:56 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  It's easy to spot the posters on here who know about West Texas, El Paso etc and those who don't. You have to go to El Paso to know. It's nothing at all like east or central Texas. It's nothing like Amarillo, Lubbick, Midland Odessa. I go with another rule about what's Southern as well. The y'all rule. Only people saying y'all in El Paso saying y'all are soldiers at Bliss from somewhere else. Also the chili chilie rule. There is Texas kind and New Mexico Green or Red. El Paso has the latter. Folks in East Texas probably don't even know what I'm talking about.

There are some rare exceptions. I lived in Arkansas almost all of my first 36 years and I say "you guys" instead of "ya'll" and I like to sweat when I eat chilli. I've always said it was because I'm a Tucson native.

How'd you manage to pick up you guys in Arkansas????

I'm not a chain restaurant fan but Chuy's is the closest I can get to New Mexico food in Arkansas and when they have Hatch chili month I'd eat there every day if I could get away with it.

I seriously miss the food in Albuquerque.

I wanted to feel more connected to my Tucson family so I copied some of their habits.

(06-07-2017 12:05 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  West Texas, northern plains, Oklahoma, Kansas, Missouri, Wyoming, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Ohio, the northeast and the west coast are not oversaturating of football members. What I am pointing out if that schools like West Texas A&M, Hardin Simmons, UTPB, Angelo State and some others could help schools like UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State and so forth save some moneys to claw back out of the hole.

For Wyoming, the state has only 2 4-year schools. The other one is a catholic college that started in 2007, has about 150 students, and the campus facility is a church. Yeah, keep believing in your fantasy.

Maybe Wyoming can annex Scottsbluff, Nebraska and start a team there...since we are indulging in DavidSt fantasies

UTEP's rivals in the MWC: Football games only:

New Mexico: 78 games
Colorado St: 35 games
Wyoming: 33 games
Hawaii: 31 games
San Diego St: 22 games
Air Force: 15 games
Fresno St: 12 games
San Jose St: 10 games
UNLV: 7 games
Boise: 5 games
Nevada & Utah St: 3 games

UTEP vs it's CUSA conference mates:
North Texas: 25 games
Rice: 20 games
Louisiana Tech: 13 games
Southern Miss: 9 games
UTSA, Marshall, UAB: 4 games
Old Dominion, Florida International: 3 games
MTSU, Florida Atlantic: 2 games
Western Kentucky: 1 game
Charlotte: 0

(06-06-2017 12:07 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 09:33 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 08:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:23 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  NuMexAg,

Amen. You nailed it on El Paso. Amazing how many people in the southeastern part of Texas have so little understanding of West Texas and El Paso. Very different history, very different settlement patterns.

My brother's wife is from El Paso. Spanish family (as they prefer to say). And you describe El Paso accurately. From what I know about the history, that notch in Texas below New Mexico, which includes El Paso, was kept by Texas when New Mexico was formed to create a Spanish speaking state (newspaper sales in the late 1800s indicate New Mexico was 95% Spanish speaking at the time of Statehood). El Paso really should have been part of New Mexico, but Texas wanted to hang onto the Rio Grande and the last port. So there you have a El Paso 745 miles from Houston, and 725 miles from San Diego. (It's 550 miles to San Antonio, and 640 to Dallas). Culturally it's almost as far apart. It's in a different time zone from eastern Texas.

The alumni problem has been commented on by UTEP's President Natalicio, who a few years back said they want to play schools in the eastern part of Texas so their alumni can see their school play. (Fundraising angle too). The jobs are in Dallas, Austin, and Houston, and that is where the alumni go (or California).

You're confused. Texas became independent in 1836 and a state in 1845. New Mexico didn't become a state until decades later. El Paso was always viewed as part of Texas.

Half of New Mexico used to be in Texas. But when Texas joined the USA, they agreed to give up about 1/3 of their territory in exchange for the USA assuming $10 million of Texas' debt.

Texas' original boundaries:


Proposals for Texas' final boundary (established in 1850):

That first map was not recognized by anyone except the Republic of Texas.

Well most of the Spanish and Mexican claim wasn't recognized by the Apaches and Comanches who really controlled the area. But the US did recognize the Republic of Texas borders when they admitted them and then bought the rest that wasn't admitted as a state.

And ALL of Arizona was New Mexico until statehood in 1912. The New Mexico territory was split in half and the western part became the state of Arizona and the Eastern part became the state of New Mexico. There were some legendary Cowboys in that era until statehood allowed for the resources to stop the violence. I'm a history nut...particularly the Wild West!

(06-07-2017 12:22 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  And ALL of Arizona was New Mexico until statehood in 1912. The New Mexico territory was split in half and the western part became the state of Arizona and the Eastern part became the state of New Mexico. There were some legendary Cowboys in that era until statehood allowed for the resources to stop the violence. I'm a history nut...particularly the Wild West!

Arizona Territory was created on Feb 24, 1863 that followed current state boundaries, with the exception that all of current Nevada below the Utah boundary extended (most of current Clark County, NV) was part of original Arizona Territory until Nevada stole it.

The Confederates used a North/South split for their version of Arizona Territory

(06-07-2017 12:22 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  And ALL of Arizona was New Mexico until statehood in 1912. The New Mexico territory was split in half and the western part became the state of Arizona and the Eastern part became the state of New Mexico. There were some legendary Cowboys in that era until statehood allowed for the resources to stop the violence. I'm a history nut...particularly the Wild West!

Very few people realize Santa Fe founded in 1607 is the oldest city in the US serving as a state capitol and is just months younger than Jamestown, VA. Palace of the Governors is the oldest or second oldest public building in the 50 states.

(06-07-2017 12:40 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 12:22 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  And ALL of Arizona was New Mexico until statehood in 1912. The New Mexico territory was split in half and the western part became the state of Arizona and the Eastern part became the state of New Mexico. There were some legendary Cowboys in that era until statehood allowed for the resources to stop the violence. I'm a history nut...particularly the Wild West!

Very few people realize Santa Fe founded in 1607 is the oldest city in the US serving as a state capitol and is just months younger than Jamestown, VA. Palace of the Governors is the oldest or second oldest public building in the 50 states.

British-centric New England and that dad-burn New York media.

(06-07-2017 12:36 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-07-2017 12:22 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  And ALL of Arizona was New Mexico until statehood in 1912. The New Mexico territory was split in half and the western part became the state of Arizona and the Eastern part became the state of New Mexico. There were some legendary Cowboys in that era until statehood allowed for the resources to stop the violence. I'm a history nut...particularly the Wild West!

Arizona Territory was created on Feb 24, 1863 that followed current state boundaries, with the exception that all of current Nevada below the Utah boundary extended (most of current Clark County, NV) was part of original Arizona Territory until Nevada stole it.

The Confederates used a North/South split for their version of Arizona Territory

Wow, could you imagine a Las Vegas, Arizona?

The problem with UTEP is the AD. We can discuss all day the advantages and challenges a school like UTEP faces. It has structural and support foundations that the vast majority of G5s lack but its location is both a blessing and a curse. While most recruits just wanted a chance to be starters for a Div 1-A program 15-20 years ago, they want now to win and win big even as second stringers and that's the area where UTEP has struggled in football and basketball as well. UTEP faces the same recruiting and geographic challenges that Boise State football and Gonzaga basketball face. Both are in mid size metro areas and have a mid size airport where Southwest Airlines flies to, just like El Paso. Like El Paso, they're far from large population centers and neither city is known as a strong recruiting hotbed. The former has been to three Fiesta Bowls in a decade and the latter just played for the NC this spring. El Paso has over 25 high schools, that should be enough to fill UTEP's roster but the fact is most HS players there lack the size and speed to play at the FBS level. Same for basketball but El Paso produces tons of local baseball talent. That's where El Paso high schools compete with the rest of the state and it's ironic the local university does not sponsor the one sport that El Paso is best at (that and men's soccer as well but hey we have a national rifle team).

El Paso is big enough and has all the amenities like most American cities for any potential recruit. It offers plenty of outdoor activities such as hiking and mountain biking. The weather is nice most of the time except for the occasional dust storm but Phoenix and Vegas get them too. It's not some small town that only has one gas station and two fast food restaurants. It's not even like most West Texas towns like Middland, Odessa, Lubbock, Amarillo, Abilene and San Angelo. It's similar in size, culture and landscape to Tucson and Albuquerque. American, Southwest, Delta and United fly there so it's easy to catch a flight nonstop to DFW, Houston, L.A., Phoenix, Las Vegas, Denver, Chicago, Atlanta, etc. The fan support is there so are the on campus facilities. The local media covers UTEP and to some extent NMSU like a P5 school and the business community is behind the Miners. It's not rare to see a local commercial ending with "go Miners". Something like "come see us at Rudolph Chevrolet and go Miners". That's my frustration with UTEP athletics. It has everything to be a successful program and it's just wasting all those advantages while other schools with more challenges pass us by. But it's not the only one. Just look at UNLV of all places. Las Vegas, that name alone should be enough. SDSU before Hoke and Fisher. San Diego is a beautiful city and they struggled for years. UTEP's rival New Mexico, a flagship university. Even nearby P5s Arizona and Arizona State but at least they're in the Pac-12 so they don't have much to prove.

The one thing that makes UTEP different from most G5s is that El Pasoans identify with the school. Might have the stigma attached of being a commuter school but unlike most commuter schools you're more than likely a UTEP fan just by being born and raised there. It's not rare to see people who went to other schools still rooting for UTEP because the school is pretty much represents El Paso's identity. I know a few Texas, USC, Ohio State, Arizona State, LSU grads here in Dallas who still root for UTEP because they're from El Paso. Some of the people I've meet here in Dallas when UTEP plays here never went to school there. They just support the school because they're now away from El Paso and brings back some memories and nostalgia when they lived in El Paso. How many commuter schools can say that? But here comes my biggest criticism, until folks in El Paso realize they have to pay more to have a winning football and basketball programs not much is going to change. I've heard people complaining tickets went from $17 to $20, how "expensive" was to pay $20 for parking in the garage next to the Sun Bowl. That's peanuts compared to what fans pay at P5 schools and the upper G5 ones. They're spoiled. And no, no coach will stay and retire like Don Haskins did. Even P5 schools struggle in keeping coaches. You want UTEP to win big? Pay more and that will translate into paying coaches more who in return might consider to stay because we all know that money need to come from somewhere. It won't come from the pennies the athletic department gets from the C-USA tv deal, that's for sure, and there's so much donors like the Fosters and Rubins can do along with the local businesses.

We need a new AD. He's just being complacent and took too long to let Mike Price go (he "retired") and he's doing the same thing with Tim Floyd. We have a great president but she's more focused on the academic side, as she should. She took UTEP from one doctoral degree to two dozen programs now and she's working on Tier One status per the Texas Legislature. The campus itself looks completely different from the one I attended in the late 90's. So no complains for her, she's done an excellent job given the resources and challenges she was faced with. We just need an AD with the same drive and passion and until that happens, it'll be business as usual at UTEP.

I wonder if a move to the MWC, to reunite UTEP with many of its old WAC mates, would revitalize the fan base and help to justify ticket price increases.

Regardless, I would love for BYU to get UTEP on the schedule - fond memories of the original WAC.