(06-06-2017 05:17 AM)Rob Wrote:  So you blame this entire thing on Liberals? If only the world were as black and white as you seem to think it is.

Are you denying LA USD is run by Liberals?

Didn't we have a similar thread last week about Baltimore and their failing students?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-elites-hate-1496702030

Why elites hate.

"...The great irony here is that this has left Democrats increasingly choosing undemocratic means to get what they want. From President Obama’s boast that he would use his pen and phone to bypass Congress to the progressive use of the Supreme Court as its preferred legislature to the Iran and climate deals that made end runs around the Constitution, it all underscores one thing: The modern American progressive has no faith in the democratic process because he has no trust in the American people.

Here it helps to remember the tail end of Mr. Obama’s snipe about guns and religion: it was a crack about voters clinging to “antipathy toward people who aren’t like them.” Sounds like a pretty accurate indictment of contemporary American liberalism, judging by all these articles begging progressives to be a little more broad-minded.
So good luck with the idea that the Democratic Party can restore its relationship with Middle America without addressing the identity politics that fuels it. Especially when it starts from the premise that the Americans they are condescending to will remain too stupid to figure it out. "

At some point the teachers have to look on the mirror. More training is required obviously and the need to hire higher quality individuals for teaching positions.

(06-06-2017 05:17 AM)Rob Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 10:02 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Los Angeles Daily News

By Matt Levin, CALmatters
POSTED: 06/04/17, 10:38 AM PDT

75% of black California boys don’t meet state reading standards

Quote:Three of four African-American boys in California classrooms failed to meet reading and writing standards on the most recent round of testing, according to data obtained from the state Department of Education and analyzed by CALmatters.

Nothing contributes to poverty and government dependence than illiteracy.

And the sad part of this is that liberals and education professionals know this. Which leads me to believe it's an intentional effort to keep people suppressed and dependent.

So you blame this entire thing on Liberals? If only the world were as black and white as you seem to think it is.

BTW, liberals are not confined to one party.

(06-05-2017 07:43 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  when people say " good school district" what they really mean (even if unintentional) is a district without a single moms and out of wedlock children.

Nothing wrong with two people cohabiting and raising their children in a home.

(06-06-2017 12:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 07:43 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  when people say " good school district" what they really mean (even if unintentional) is a district without a single moms and out of wedlock children.

Nothing wrong with two people cohabiting and raising their children in a home.

yes, there is.

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(06-06-2017 12:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 07:43 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  when people say " good school district" what they really mean (even if unintentional) is a district without a single moms and out of wedlock children.

Nothing wrong with two people cohabiting and raising their children in a home.

Except for the fact that those relationships are *FAR* more likely to end by the time the kid is in middle school.

(06-06-2017 12:28 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  yes, there is.

Like what?

(06-06-2017 12:38 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Except for the fact that those relationships are *FAR* more likely to end by the time the kid is in middle school.

How many marriages end up in divorce anyway? I think more than 50% on average across the country.

So long as the child's learning is unaffected, then there's nothing wrong with parents splitting up (whether divorce or just ending a cohabiting relationship). It teaches life lessons, and ultimately makes the child a stronger person for having to deal with adversary.

(06-06-2017 01:06 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  How many marriages end up in divorce anyway? I think more than 50% on average across the country.

I ran through the numbers on another thread, I'll summarize here and ask that you trust I'm not talking out of my rear end because I don't want to go look it up again.

About 30% of marriages at or before the 10 year mark. About 70% of cohabitation couples don't make it that long.

Quote:So long as the child's learning is unaffected, then there's nothing wrong with parents splitting up (whether divorce or just ending a cohabiting relationship).

Same thread I was chatting in before... The outcomes of kids from a split household are on average far worse than those of a married couple. It's actually more of a linked indicator than race, gender, sexuality, or income.

Quote:It teaches life lessons, and ultimately makes the child a stronger person for having to deal with adversary.

Except that the outcomes are far, far worse.

(06-06-2017 01:06 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 12:28 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  yes, there is.

Like what?

Cohabitating couples are more likely to split up.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/paren...abitation/

Quote:The issue is the fragility of cohabiting vs. married relationships. Children born to cohabiting couples do worse because their parents are much more likely to break up; two-thirds have split up before their child reaches age 12, compared with a quarter of married parents. This instability is what damages children’s well-being, as Ms. Manning concludes: “The family experience that has a consistent and negative implication for child health in both cohabiting and married parent families is family instability.”

To the extent that biological parents stay together and provide a stable environment, it doesn’t much matter if they are married. But those who have chosen marriage before childrearing are those who tend to stay the course. It seems likely that the decision to marry is a signal of this commitment. It is also likely, however, that marriage acts as a “commitment device,” helping couples to sustain their relationship.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/adu...ffect-kids

Quote:the typical cohabiting couple in the United States doesn’t make it past year five.
.....
Evidence shows that children in cohabiting relationships have more behavioral problems and cognitive problems than those in married-couple families. Here’s a good overview of the research on cohabitation and child well-being.

Ronald Bulanda and Wendy Manning in a 2008 journal article looked down the road to the child’s teen years and found that “that children born to cohabiting parents initiate sex at an earlier age and are more likely to have a teenage birth than children born to married parents.”

(06-06-2017 02:28 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 01:06 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  How many marriages end up in divorce anyway? I think more than 50% on average across the country.

I ran through the numbers on another thread, I'll summarize here and ask that you trust I'm not talking out of my rear end because I don't want to go look it up again.

About 30% of marriages at or before the 10 year mark. About 70% of cohabitation couples don't make it that long.

Quote:So long as the child's learning is unaffected, then there's nothing wrong with parents splitting up (whether divorce or just ending a cohabiting relationship).

Same thread I was chatting in before... The outcomes of kids from a split household are on average far worse than those of a married couple. It's actually more of a linked indicator than race, gender, sexuality, or income.

Quote:It teaches life lessons, and ultimately makes the child a stronger person for having to deal with adversary.

Except that the outcomes are far, far worse.

OK, Bull.

My instincts say that there are other factors present in the majority of situations -- because I know plenty of examples of kids who went on to do just fine, despite their parents divorcing (or splitting up, otherwise), as well as plenty of examples of kids who did just fine with single mothers -- but I won't dispute your numbers.


I will simply say that, ideally it's a good thing for children to be in a household with two parents/guardians.

Low tax revenue = low schoool quality = poor learning culture = poor academic performance

Create a better environment for minority businesses, artists, and other small entrepreneurs and your tax base will increase. This will passively solve your school system problems.

Regressive anti-business philosophy has a way of destroying neighborhoods.

(06-06-2017 02:58 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  OK, Bull.

My instincts say that there are other factors present in the majority of situations -- because I know plenty of examples of kids who went on to do just fine, despite their parents divorcing (or splitting up, otherwise), as well as plenty of examples of kids who did just fine with single mothers -- but I won't dispute your numbers.

These studies were huge, and covered people from across many spectrums.

Similar results were even seek in studies in the UK. The biggest predictor of life success is whether or not you have to married parents.

[/quote]I will simply say that, ideally it's a good thing for children to be in a household with two parents/guardians.
[/quote]

Which is nothing more than I've said.... I'm merely putting numbers on it.

(06-06-2017 03:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  These studies were huge, and covered people from across many spectrums.

Similar results were even seek in studies in the UK. The biggest predictor of life success is whether or not you have to married parents.

You mean, if there are simply two parents present in the household.

Why would the child know any better if they were technically married or just cohabiting? And for that matter, what about two married men/women? Or what about two cohabiting men/women parents in the household?


None of that should matter. Only thing that should matter is two vs one.

Otherwise, it's more a statement about a preference of morality, than it is the science of parenting.

(06-07-2017 09:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(06-06-2017 03:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  These studies were huge, and covered people from across many spectrums.

Similar results were even seek in studies in the UK. The biggest predictor of life success is whether or not you have to married parents.

You mean, if there are simply two parents present in the household.

Well yes and no... Given that co-habitating non-married folks are twice as likely to split up, it's better to be married. But at any given moment two parent's are enough.

Quote:Why would the child know any better if they were technically married or just cohabiting?

Two things -
(1) Kids are not stupid. You could probably get them to 5-10 without them picking up on it.
(2) As I have said several times, twice as likely to split up.

Quote:And for that matter, what about two married men/women? Or what about two cohabiting men/women parents in the household?

Well I have my own thoughts on that, because men and women bring different perspectives to kids, but two married homosexual parents probably lead to better educational and social results than a single parent.

Quote:None of that should matter. Only thing that should matter is two vs one.

That's like saying two alchoholics are better than one sober person. There are always going to be edge cases which are exceptions. But if you want two stable adults to stay together, it's best if they are married.

Quote:Otherwise, it's more a statement about a preference of morality, than it is the science of parenting.

In the other thred I said the only real problem I had with others just cohabitating
is that they have a far higher chance of going their own way, leaving the kid in the lurch.

OK, on all your points. All fair and valid. Thanks

One last point w.r.t. "kids will start picking it up". Yes, true. But, they will also start picking up on the fact that their parents hate each other, and are only not getting a divorce to "stay together for the kids". They know it's a lie, and they know that there is no love. Kids can pick up on that too.

That's why I am a big proponent of divorce, if the relationship isn't right anymore. I don't believe in living a lie.


But that is my opinion, only.

(06-06-2017 03:13 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Low tax revenue = low schoool quality = poor learning culture = poor academic performance

Create a better environment for minority businesses, artists, and other small entrepreneurs and your tax base will increase. This will passively solve your school system problems.

Regressive anti-business philosophy has a way of destroying neighborhoods.

Low tax revenue could be another way of saying low funding for schools. I'm not sure if that's your implication.

I would hesitate to suggest that funding levels correlate to a school's academic success.

A brief picture: The Memphis TN Metro Area includes eight counties, three of which are in TN.
- Shelby County, TN | 2016 est pop 934,603 | Prop Tax Rate 4.37
- Tipton County, TN | 2016 est pop 61,303 | Prop Tax Rate 2.42
- Fayette County, TN | 2016 est pop 39,590 | Prop Tax Rate 1.74

Memphis is in Shelby County. Memphis has a property tax rate of 3.40.

The combined city/county property tax rate for Memphis, Shelby County is 7.77 which ranks highest in the state.

For decades there were two school districts in Shelby County:
- City of Memphis Schools
- Shelby County Schools

Tennessee school funding comes from three entities. In order of average percentage funding:
- State 46.5%
- Municipality 39.2%
- Federal 14.3%


Fayette and Tipton counties each share a border with Shelby County -- Tipton to the north and Fayette to the east.

Both counties have significantly less tax revenue than Memphis-Shelby and both schools systems are significantly smaller.

2012 Data

Funding Per Student
City of Memphis Schools $11,250
Shelby County Schools $9,318
Tipton County Schools $7,922
Fayette County Schools $9,720

City of Memphis Schools
Schools: 212
Administrators: 464 (2.2 admin / school)
Teachers: 6,755
Students: 101,696
15.1 Student-Teacher Ratio

Shelby County Schools
Schools: 52
Administrators: 169 (3.25 admin / school)
Teachers: 2,742
Students: 45,050
16.4 Student-Teacher Ratio

Tipton County Schools
Schools: 14
Administrators: 51 (3.6 admin / school)
Teachers: 744
Students: 11,437
15.4 Student-Teacher Ratio

Fayette County Schools
Schools: 10
Administrators: 25 (2.5 admin / school)
Teachers: 263
Students: 3,440
13.1 Student-Teacher Ratio



2012 TN Report Cards by System

City of Memphis Schools
Grades 3-8
D Math
F Reading
F Social Studies
F Science

Grades 9-12
16.4 ACT


Fayette County Schools
Grades 3-8
D Math
D Reading
D Social Studies
D Science

Grades 9-12
16.3 ACT


Tipton County Schools
Grades 3-8
A Math
B Reading
B Social Studies
B Science

Grades 9-12
20.1 ACT


Shelby County Schools
Grades 3-8
A Math
A Reading
A Social Studies
A Science

Grades 9-12
20.8 ACT


Both City of Memphis and Fayette County schools perform among the worst in the state while both Tipton County and Shelby County schools perform among the best in the state.


Fayette County and City of Memphis schools are not comparable to each other in multiple attributes so Fayette County Schools commissioned a study which compared itself to other schools systems in the state of similar size and racial demographics in an effort to compare apples to apples.

The result showed that Fayette County had the highest per student funding and the lowest performance.

There are many other factors than available money.


By the way, when reviewing various school system budgets I found that the line items of Salaries and Benefits comprise more than 75% of a school system's budget.

Other line items include Buildings/Property, Bus Maintenance & Fuel, Grounds Maintenance, Food Services, etc.

We're pushing over 90% of the budget and we haven't talked about items used in the classroom such as books, computers, etc.

By the way, the number one indicator of losing a child in a failed education experience is whether or not the child is reading at grade level by grade 4.

We know this. We should focus resources on literacy efforts in grades K-4.

Which program contributes more to a child's life-long success: reading literacy or gender awareness?

But...but just recently, The Univ of Wisconsin Madison has said that blacks should be able to communicate in Ebonics because learning the King's English is Too Difficult.... for them.