(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 10:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  I've seen another theory suggested that there is other intelligent civilizations out there; however, our timing may result in us having little or no overlap. The article flirts with the idea some about the Milky Way being enormous, not looking in the right places, not looking long enough, intelligent life is self destructive, etc; however, when you put these possibilities together, it adds up to intelligent life springing up at different times and then flaming out before the a newer intelligent species starts to think about who else is out there.

And then there is all that combined with the theoretical impossibility of faster than light travel. Even if we exist at the same time, travel of interstellar distances would take too long for two intelligent civilizations to meet.

Faster than light travel is only impossible if you are dealing with the same constants that light must deal with. All one has to do is change those constants. For example, space is not "empty". If humans ever develop the technology to alter the vacuum of space, we can alter the maximum speed at which light, and in turn ourselves, can travel through it. One day it may be possible for humans to travel faster than light, not by breaking the laws of physics, but by temporarily changing the environment in which those laws apply.

(06-05-2017 11:37 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 10:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  I've seen another theory suggested that there is other intelligent civilizations out there; however, our timing may result in us having little or no overlap. The article flirts with the idea some about the Milky Way being enormous, not looking in the right places, not looking long enough, intelligent life is self destructive, etc; however, when you put these possibilities together, it adds up to intelligent life springing up at different times and then flaming out before the a newer intelligent species starts to think about who else is out there.

And then there is all that combined with the theoretical impossibility of faster than light travel. Even if we exist at the same time, travel of interstellar distances would take too long for two intelligent civilizations to meet.

Faster than light travel is only impossible if you are dealing with the same constants that light must deal with. All one has to do is change those constants. For example, space is not "empty". If humans ever develop the technology to alter the vacuum of space, we can alter the maximum speed at which light, and in turn ourselves, can travel through it. One day it may be possible for humans to travel faster than light, not by breaking the laws of physics, but by temporarily changing the environment in which those laws apply.

The bubble around the spacecraft idea.

(06-05-2017 10:43 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  They are here....

how else can you explain this

(06-05-2017 11:38 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:37 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 10:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  I've seen another theory suggested that there is other intelligent civilizations out there; however, our timing may result in us having little or no overlap. The article flirts with the idea some about the Milky Way being enormous, not looking in the right places, not looking long enough, intelligent life is self destructive, etc; however, when you put these possibilities together, it adds up to intelligent life springing up at different times and then flaming out before the a newer intelligent species starts to think about who else is out there.

And then there is all that combined with the theoretical impossibility of faster than light travel. Even if we exist at the same time, travel of interstellar distances would take too long for two intelligent civilizations to meet.

Faster than light travel is only impossible if you are dealing with the same constants that light must deal with. All one has to do is change those constants. For example, space is not "empty". If humans ever develop the technology to alter the vacuum of space, we can alter the maximum speed at which light, and in turn ourselves, can travel through it. One day it may be possible for humans to travel faster than light, not by breaking the laws of physics, but by temporarily changing the environment in which those laws apply.

The bubble around the spacecraft idea.

Essentially. Star Trek called it a warp bubble. Other suggest related ideas like compressing space in front of the craft and causing rapid re-expansion behind it which would push the craft. It may be as simple as developing an understanding of how these minute particles work and either removing them, or changing their behavior. Instead of putting a bubble around a craft, it may be putting a bubble around information, sending packets faster than light that would allow communication even if actual travel was still impossible.

Other ways of changing space could focus on developing a relationship between dark matter and matter that allows them to interact. Likewise for dark energy and energy.

(06-05-2017 11:40 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 10:43 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  They are here....

how else can you explain this

By sending self replicating machine probes out to a different star system, having that machine harvest the raw materials in the new star system, building two more replicas of itself, then sending it to two more star systems, it wouldn't take too long (on a cosmic scale) for a highly advanced space faring civilization to extend their reach to the entire Milky Way if they wanted to.

This can be done within 3.75 million years without having the need to travel anywhere near the speed of light. Looking at the sheer number of stars in our galaxy (100-400 billion), it seems odd that we haven't encountered intelligent life in our own galaxy yet. So that brings us back to Fermi's Paradox. There must be a reason why we aren't seeing intelligent life out there. Is it one of the reasons outlined in the OP? Is there some barrier that all life hits at some point in time in their development that makes it really difficult to survive? Maybe by some fluke, humanity beat the odds and made it across the barrier, explaining why the universe seems so empty. Or maybe we haven't crossed the barrier and it still lies in front of us in our future (scary!!). Who knows?

(06-05-2017 10:22 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I think they'd like to come and meet us, but they think they'd blow our minds.

+3 !

(06-05-2017 10:22 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I think they'd like to come and meet us, but they think they'd blow our minds.

Yup! An alien species with a couple million years on humanity may find it as difficult to communicate with us as we have with apes.

(06-05-2017 10:44 AM)miko33 Wrote:  I've seen another theory suggested that there is other intelligent civilizations out there; however, our timing may result in us having little or no overlap. The article flirts with the idea some about the Milky Way being enormous, not looking in the right places, not looking long enough, intelligent life is self destructive, etc; however, when you put these possibilities together, it adds up to intelligent life springing up at different times and then flaming out before the a newer intelligent species starts to think about who else is out there.

I think it is safe to assume, that soon we will come to a realization...that some sort of consensus will be reached in which all parties agree that there may possible be life in other galaxies, otherwise we can be assured that the majority will realize that life does not exist elsewhere.

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I don't think our universe is anywhere close to as big as scientists tell us it is. In fact, I think that that they're blowing a lot of smoke up our asses.

I don't believe that there are aliens. I believe that these so-called encounters are demonic activity.

I fully agree

Anyone who considers the bible to be the divine Word of God and Jesus the Son of God knows there are no aliens. All of creation fell based on Adam and Eve in the garden on earth.

God made man in His own image, from the earth itself.

(06-05-2017 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I don't think our universe is anywhere close to as big as scientists tell us it is. In fact, I think that that they're blowing a lot of smoke up our asses.

I don't believe that there are aliens. I believe that these so-called encounters are demonic activity.

I fully agree

Anyone who considers the bible to be the divine Word of God and Jesus the Son of God knows there are no aliens. All of creation fell based on Adam and Eve in the garden on earth.

God made man in His own image, from the earth itself.

Are you saying that you believe that ALL life exists solely on Earth?

What happens if they find life or evidence of life on Mars or one of Saturn's moons?

(06-05-2017 01:18 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  What happens if they find life or evidence of life on Mars or one of Saturn's moons?

A biblical passage will magically be interpreted as stating god made it......

(06-05-2017 01:18 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I don't think our universe is anywhere close to as big as scientists tell us it is. In fact, I think that that they're blowing a lot of smoke up our asses.

I don't believe that there are aliens. I believe that these so-called encounters are demonic activity.

I fully agree

Anyone who considers the bible to be the divine Word of God and Jesus the Son of God knows there are no aliens. All of creation fell based on Adam and Eve in the garden on earth.

God made man in His own image, from the earth itself.

Are you saying that you believe that ALL life exists solely on Earth?

What happens if they find life or evidence of life on Mars or one of Saturn's moons?

NO. There are 2 kinds of life - life on earth and whatever you'd like to call spiritual realm. I believe that "aliens" fall into the latter category and we're playing with fire trying to engage them.

(06-05-2017 11:37 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Faster than light travel is only impossible if you are dealing with the same constants that light must deal with. All one has to do is change those constants. For example, space is not "empty". If humans ever develop the technology to alter the vacuum of space, we can alter the maximum speed at which light, and in turn ourselves, can travel through it. One day it may be possible for humans to travel faster than light, not by breaking the laws of physics, but by temporarily changing the environment in which those laws apply.

Until the time that Einstein is proven wrong (which is always a possibility), nothing that consists of components defined within the standard model, will ever be able to exceed the universal speed limit c, or the speed of light. Both energy and matter, which are variants of the basic particles, will never be able to exceed 300,000 km/sec.

It is generally accepted that space itself can expand at a rate that would be noted to be faster than c. In fact, in order for cosmological inflation to have taken place in the earliest of moments following the Big Bang, space would have had to expand at a far more rapid rate. (However, in the last year some research has found that maybe inflation did not take place.)

The thing to be aware of is that matter/energy, that is carried forward through expanding space, loses contact with the other matter since "information" (as broadly defined) is constrained by c.

The fallacy of the warp drive is that the target of the space ship is farther following the execution of the warp drive, by exactly the same distance as the space ship traveled.

A whole other matter concerns quantum entanglement, wherein one of two entangled particles can simultaneously affect the status of the other regardless of the distance between the two. Einstein dubbed this "spooky action at a distance."

(06-05-2017 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I don't think our universe is anywhere close to as big as scientists tell us it is. In fact, I think that that they're blowing a lot of smoke up our asses.

I don't believe that there are aliens. I believe that these so-called encounters are demonic activity.

I fully agree

Anyone who considers the bible to be the divine Word of God and Jesus the Son of God knows there are no aliens. All of creation fell based on Adam and Eve in the garden on earth.

God made man in His own image, from the earth itself.

And does the Bible say he did not repeat this act?

(06-05-2017 11:58 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  By sending self replicating machine probes out to a different star system, having that machine harvest the raw materials in the new star system, building two more replicas of itself, then sending it to two more star systems, it wouldn't take too long (on a cosmic scale) for a highly advanced space faring civilization to extend their reach to the entire Milky Way if they wanted to.

This can be done within 3.75 million years without having the need to travel anywhere near the speed of light. Looking at the sheer number of stars in our galaxy (100-400 billion), it seems odd that we haven't encountered intelligent life in our own galaxy yet. So that brings us back to Fermi's Paradox. There must be a reason why we aren't seeing intelligent life out there. Is it one of the reasons outlined in the OP? Is there some barrier that all life hits at some point in time in their development that makes it really difficult to survive? Maybe by some fluke, humanity beat the odds and made it across the barrier, explaining why the universe seems so empty. Or maybe we haven't crossed the barrier and it still lies in front of us in our future (scary!!). Who knows?

There have been periods of collapse. The Stonehenge civilization was capable of more than those that followed. The Minoans collapsed. The Egyptians collapsed a couple of times. The Mayans collapsed a couple of times. The Mound Builders collapsed. The Romans collapsed. The people of Medieval Europe looked with awe upon the Romans. Maybe western civilization will collapse as well. And our digital libraries will be unreadable or decayed. We don't really have a plan for a permanent library like the "Moties." <book discussion Mote in God's Eye>

(06-05-2017 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I don't think our universe is anywhere close to as big as scientists tell us it is. In fact, I think that that they're blowing a lot of smoke up our asses.

I don't believe that there are aliens. I believe that these so-called encounters are demonic activity.

I fully agree

Anyone who considers the bible to be the divine Word of God and Jesus the Son of God knows there are no aliens. All of creation fell based on Adam and Eve in the garden on earth.

God made man in His own image, from the earth itself.

The Bible also says we can't understand God's ways. Maybe he created life elsewhere as well. If there is life in another Galaxy we probably would never contact it. The distances are just too vast. Or maybe he stopped with us.

(06-05-2017 01:18 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I don't think our universe is anywhere close to as big as scientists tell us it is. In fact, I think that that they're blowing a lot of smoke up our asses.

I don't believe that there are aliens. I believe that these so-called encounters are demonic activity.

I fully agree

Anyone who considers the bible to be the divine Word of God and Jesus the Son of God knows there are no aliens. All of creation fell based on Adam and Eve in the garden on earth.

God made man in His own image, from the earth itself.

Are you saying that you believe that ALL life exists solely on Earth?

What happens if they find life or evidence of life on Mars or one of Saturn's moons?

You would have to define "life"

I have no doubt plant and microscopic life could exist elsewhere. I don't think that is the context when people are disusing aliens though.

(06-05-2017 02:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I don't think our universe is anywhere close to as big as scientists tell us it is. In fact, I think that that they're blowing a lot of smoke up our asses.

I don't believe that there are aliens. I believe that these so-called encounters are demonic activity.

I fully agree

Anyone who considers the bible to be the divine Word of God and Jesus the Son of God knows there are no aliens. All of creation fell based on Adam and Eve in the garden on earth.

God made man in His own image, from the earth itself.

The Bible also says we can't understand God's ways. Maybe he created life elsewhere as well. If there is life in another Galaxy we probably would never contact it. The distances are just too vast. Or maybe he stopped with us.

Its would actually totally contraction the scriptures, but that is another discussion entirely.

Again, the context here would be mortal beings made in His own Image just as us. Not microscopic or plant life.

Its my personal belief that YHWH intends to litter the universe with life in the New Heavens & New Earth "Eternal age", but that is just pure speculation.

(06-05-2017 02:49 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 02:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 01:06 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(06-05-2017 11:09 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  I don't think our universe is anywhere close to as big as scientists tell us it is. In fact, I think that that they're blowing a lot of smoke up our asses.

I don't believe that there are aliens. I believe that these so-called encounters are demonic activity.

I fully agree

Anyone who considers the bible to be the divine Word of God and Jesus the Son of God knows there are no aliens. All of creation fell based on Adam and Eve in the garden on earth.

God made man in His own image, from the earth itself.

The Bible also says we can't understand God's ways. Maybe he created life elsewhere as well. If there is life in another Galaxy we probably would never contact it. The distances are just too vast. Or maybe he stopped with us.

Its would actually totally contraction the scriptures, but that is another discussion entirely.

Again, the context here would be mortal beings made in His own Image just as us. Not microscopic or plant life.

Its my personal belief that YHWH intends to litter the universe with life in the New Heavens & New Earth "Eternal age", but that is just pure speculation.

My sources tell me YHWH intends to give Barack Obama his own planet...