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Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(07-15-2017 02:56 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 02:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 10:25 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just a fight between Saudi Arabia and Qatar for control of terrorist groups elsewhere in the ME. Nothing to see here. And no reason to sell 110 billion in weapons to either of them.

I think ME politics are often referenced, but rarely understood. Still, I'm fine w/ selling weapons, so long as they aren't used against us.

If two Arab (or any other) nations want to blow each other up, then by all means, use American munitions. In fact, I think that we're better off the more the Saudis fight the Iranians in proxy wars. It forces them to open oil taps, it puts money in our bank accounts, and it makes them (the government's, but more importantly the people) too busy hating each other to hate us.

...and who knows, maybe a couple of stray missiles will land a little west and solve about 40% of America's foreign policy problems.

Yea, but you can't control how many of those weapons AREN'T used in Yemen. Some might go to the next ISIS, which will be formed exactly 5 minutes after ISIS is defeated.

The foreign policy problem is largely related to the rivalry between the Saudis and the Iranians. Do anything to help one, or hurt the other, and it just makes things worse. Obama got that. Trump doesn't. The whole point of the Iran deal was to even the playing field and make both sides COMPETE for our attention. Trump's plan....go to the Qataris and ask for 500 Million for his personal family business, then go after them as the USA when they didn't pay up. I can only imagine how much the Saudis funneled to him and his family. We will find that out eventually.

Take Trump out of it, and it's my understanding that the vast majority of the weapons are used very shortly after they're bought/sold (weeks if not days). Also, I have no doubt that the Russians are doing back flips to arm the Iranians. They need the money.

Combined, a Saudi-Iran conflict is an oil-fueled pillow fight where the only winners are the arms dealers, us and ze USSR2.0.

They are welcome to get themselves mired in that mess. Their weapons are crap. And so friggin' what if Putin ends up bogged down in that mess for the next 30 years.
07-15-2017 04:05 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(07-15-2017 04:05 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 02:56 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 02:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 10:25 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just a fight between Saudi Arabia and Qatar for control of terrorist groups elsewhere in the ME. Nothing to see here. And no reason to sell 110 billion in weapons to either of them.

I think ME politics are often referenced, but rarely understood. Still, I'm fine w/ selling weapons, so long as they aren't used against us.

If two Arab (or any other) nations want to blow each other up, then by all means, use American munitions. In fact, I think that we're better off the more the Saudis fight the Iranians in proxy wars. It forces them to open oil taps, it puts money in our bank accounts, and it makes them (the government's, but more importantly the people) too busy hating each other to hate us.

...and who knows, maybe a couple of stray missiles will land a little west and solve about 40% of America's foreign policy problems.

Yea, but you can't control how many of those weapons AREN'T used in Yemen. Some might go to the next ISIS, which will be formed exactly 5 minutes after ISIS is defeated.

The foreign policy problem is largely related to the rivalry between the Saudis and the Iranians. Do anything to help one, or hurt the other, and it just makes things worse. Obama got that. Trump doesn't. The whole point of the Iran deal was to even the playing field and make both sides COMPETE for our attention. Trump's plan....go to the Qataris and ask for 500 Million for his personal family business, then go after them as the USA when they didn't pay up. I can only imagine how much the Saudis funneled to him and his family. We will find that out eventually.

Take Trump out of it, and it's my understanding that the vast majority of the weapons are used very shortly after they're bought/sold (weeks if not days). Also, I have no doubt that the Russians are doing back flips to arm the Iranians. They need the money.

Combined, a Saudi-Iran conflict is an oil-fueled pillow fight where the only winners are the arms dealers, us and ze USSR2.0.

They are welcome to get themselves mired in that mess. Their weapons are crap. And so friggin' what if Putin ends up bogged down in that mess for the next 30 years.

Huh? My point is that selling weapons isn't going to offset the balance of power in the region because the Russians are on the other side of the scale.

And FWIW, I doubt we're selling top shelf stuff to the Saudis.
07-15-2017 05:14 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(07-15-2017 05:14 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 04:05 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 02:56 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 02:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  I think ME politics are often referenced, but rarely understood. Still, I'm fine w/ selling weapons, so long as they aren't used against us.

If two Arab (or any other) nations want to blow each other up, then by all means, use American munitions. In fact, I think that we're better off the more the Saudis fight the Iranians in proxy wars. It forces them to open oil taps, it puts money in our bank accounts, and it makes them (the government's, but more importantly the people) too busy hating each other to hate us.

...and who knows, maybe a couple of stray missiles will land a little west and solve about 40% of America's foreign policy problems.

Yea, but you can't control how many of those weapons AREN'T used in Yemen. Some might go to the next ISIS, which will be formed exactly 5 minutes after ISIS is defeated.

The foreign policy problem is largely related to the rivalry between the Saudis and the Iranians. Do anything to help one, or hurt the other, and it just makes things worse. Obama got that. Trump doesn't. The whole point of the Iran deal was to even the playing field and make both sides COMPETE for our attention. Trump's plan....go to the Qataris and ask for 500 Million for his personal family business, then go after them as the USA when they didn't pay up. I can only imagine how much the Saudis funneled to him and his family. We will find that out eventually.

Take Trump out of it, and it's my understanding that the vast majority of the weapons are used very shortly after they're bought/sold (weeks if not days). Also, I have no doubt that the Russians are doing back flips to arm the Iranians. They need the money.

Combined, a Saudi-Iran conflict is an oil-fueled pillow fight where the only winners are the arms dealers, us and ze USSR2.0.

They are welcome to get themselves mired in that mess. Their weapons are crap. And so friggin' what if Putin ends up bogged down in that mess for the next 30 years.

Huh? My point is that selling weapons isn't going to offset the balance of power in the region because the Russians are on the other side of the scale.

And FWIW, I doubt we're selling top shelf stuff to the Saudis.

Of course we are. They paid Trump and the Qataris didn't.
07-15-2017 06:45 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(07-15-2017 06:45 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 05:14 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 04:05 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 02:56 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 02:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Yea, but you can't control how many of those weapons AREN'T used in Yemen. Some might go to the next ISIS, which will be formed exactly 5 minutes after ISIS is defeated.

The foreign policy problem is largely related to the rivalry between the Saudis and the Iranians. Do anything to help one, or hurt the other, and it just makes things worse. Obama got that. Trump doesn't. The whole point of the Iran deal was to even the playing field and make both sides COMPETE for our attention. Trump's plan....go to the Qataris and ask for 500 Million for his personal family business, then go after them as the USA when they didn't pay up. I can only imagine how much the Saudis funneled to him and his family. We will find that out eventually.

Take Trump out of it, and it's my understanding that the vast majority of the weapons are used very shortly after they're bought/sold (weeks if not days). Also, I have no doubt that the Russians are doing back flips to arm the Iranians. They need the money.

Combined, a Saudi-Iran conflict is an oil-fueled pillow fight where the only winners are the arms dealers, us and ze USSR2.0.

They are welcome to get themselves mired in that mess. Their weapons are crap. And so friggin' what if Putin ends up bogged down in that mess for the next 30 years.

Huh? My point is that selling weapons isn't going to offset the balance of power in the region because the Russians are on the other side of the scale.

And FWIW, I doubt we're selling top shelf stuff to the Saudis.

Of course we are. They paid Trump and the Qataris didn't.

I have no doubt that our president is as corrupt as he is incompetent, but I'm actually pretty confident that the Saudis aren't getting our best equipment.
07-16-2017 10:05 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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Post: #45
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(07-15-2017 02:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The foreign policy problem is largely related to the rivalry between the Saudis and the Iranians. Do anything to help one, or hurt the other, and it just makes things worse. Obama got that.

No, he didn't.

His entire foreign policy in the region was built upon helping Iran to the detriment of the Saudis.
07-17-2017 09:11 AM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(07-15-2017 05:14 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  Huh? My point is that selling weapons isn't going to offset the balance of power in the region because the Russians are on the other side of the scale.
And FWIW, I doubt we're selling top shelf stuff to the Saudis.

Note that the Saudis are buying something like $20 Billion in arms from the Russians... they cancelled a previous deal for some political reason, and may have come back with a $3.5 billion deal, or something like that...

According to this article, the Russians have about $15 Billion in annual sales, so this is pretty substantial for them. The US recently signed a $115 Billion arms deal for the people of Yemen, by way of Mecca.
07-19-2017 07:04 AM
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