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Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
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ODU BLUE Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(06-22-2017 04:17 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Isnt 110 billion about the same amount obama gave iran?

'Close al-Jazeera': Saudi Arabia gives Qatar 13 demands to end blockade
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/j...d-blockade

The 13 demands in full

Curb diplomatic ties with Iran and close its diplomatic missions there. Expel members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard and cut off any joint military cooperation with Iran. Only trade and commerce with Iran that complies with US and international sanctions will be permitted.

Sever all ties to “terrorist organisations”, specifically the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic State, al-Qaida and Lebanon’s Hezbollah. Formally declare those entities as terrorist groups.

Shut down al-Jazeera and its affiliate stations.

Shut down news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed and Middle East Eye.

Immediately terminate the Turkish military presence in Qatar and end any joint military cooperation with Turkey inside Qatar.

Stop all means of funding for individuals, groups or organisations that have been designated as terrorists by Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt, Bahrain, the US and other countries.

Hand over “terrorist figures” and wanted individuals from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain to their countries of origin. Freeze their assets, and provide any desired information about their residency, movements and finances.

End interference in sovereign countries’ internal affairs. Stop granting citizenship to wanted nationals from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain. Revoke Qatari citizenship for existing nationals where such citizenship violates those countries’ laws.

Stop all contacts with the political opposition in Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain. Hand over all files detailing Qatar’s prior contacts with and support for those opposition groups.

Pay reparations and compensation for loss of life and other, financial losses caused by Qatar’s policies in recent years. The sum will be determined in coordination with Qatar.

Consent to monthly audits for the first year after agreeing to the demands, then once per quarter during the second year. For the following 10 years, Qatar would be monitored annually for compliance.

Align itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters, in line with an agreement reached with Saudi Arabia in 2014.

Agree to all the demands within 10 days of it being submitted to Qatar, or the list becomes invalid.

IRAN IS NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS. I STILL WONDER HOW MANY BAD PEOPLE QATAR AIRWAYS FLEW TO EUROPE AND THE US UNDER OBAMA WATCH?
(This post was last modified: 06-23-2017 08:59 AM by ODU BLUE.)
06-23-2017 08:49 AM
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ODU BLUE Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(06-05-2017 12:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 12:37 PM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 10:25 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just a fight between Saudi Arabia and Qatar for control of terrorist groups elsewhere in the ME. Nothing to see here. And no reason to sell 110 billion in weapons to either of them.

Shortly before Qatar Airways was completely taken over by the Qatari government they entered into a code share agreement with American Airlines. Very quickly passengers from muslim countries started flowing into the US on Qatar Airways/American Airlines connections by the thousands. Many traveling with burlap bags tied with string, some with $15 suitcases. Many arrived with food spilling from their luggage. Shortly afterwards American Airlines unexpectedly yanked their service out of Tel Aviv, Rumor was Qatar strong armed them into do it. Not sure if this means anything, but where were all these people going? Where are they today?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_Airways
Ownership and subsidiaries. As of May 2014, the company is fully owned by the Qatari government. Qatar Airways has been fully controlled by the government since July 2013, following the buyout of a 50% stake from a former foreign minister and other shareholders.

American Airlines and Qatar Airways join forces (2013)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinth...d/1818501/

WHAT'S REALLY BEHIND AMERICAN AIRLINES' CANCELLATION OF THE TEL AVIV-PHILADELPHIA ROUTE? (2015)
http://www.jpost.com/Business-and-Innova...ute-413320

Now their Arab neighbors announance that Qatar backs militant groups including so-called Islamic State (IS) and al-Qaeda, which Qatar denies. The Saudi state news agency SPA said Riyadh had closed its borders, severing land, sea and air contact with the tiny peninsula of oil-rich Qatar.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40155829

GOD HELP US! 04-jawdrop

I don't think that the code share with Qatar really had much to do with the TLV cancellation by AA. They tried flying it from PHL, which is not the most optimal hub to do so. There is a sh*tload of competition on US-ISR flights and the prices are sometimes HALF those for US-EUROPE flights, across all flight categories.

There are many airlines that have flown, and still fly to Israel AND Qatar. They include Royal Jordanian, British Airways, Egypt Air, Ethiopian, Lufthansa, Turkish and Swiss. Several of these airlines maintain codeshares with Qatar Airways.

---

Basically, for AA, its a long flight with lower fares from a non-optimal hub (or they can go compete in the NYC-TLV scrum). They also had a 20 million dollar judgement related to TWA that they're fighting too.

American Airlines CEO not pleased Qatar Airways wants a big stake in his company

http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/22/news/com...d=39037234

Qatar is one of the richest county in the world, per capita. Its state-run airway has been under economic pressure as its neighbors have sought to implement an embargo against the country over a political dispute. Qatar Airways can no longer fly to more than a dozen locations in Saudi Arabia, the UAE and Bahrain. An estimated 50 flights per day have been grounded. The State Department this week criticized the move, saying Qatar's rivals have yet to detail proof that the small nation is a state sponsor of terrorism. Qatar has denied the accusation.
(This post was last modified: 06-25-2017 06:39 AM by ODU BLUE.)
06-25-2017 06:37 AM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(06-05-2017 01:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 01:21 PM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 12:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 12:37 PM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 10:25 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just a fight between Saudi Arabia and Qatar for control of terrorist groups elsewhere in the ME. Nothing to see here. And no reason to sell 110 billion in weapons to either of them.

Shortly before Qatar Airways was completely taken over by the Qatari government they entered into a code share agreement with American Airlines. Very quickly passengers from muslim countries started flowing into the US on Qatar Airways/American Airlines connections by the thousands. Many traveling with burlap bags tied with string, some with $15 suitcases. Many arrived with food spilling from their luggage. Shortly afterwards American Airlines unexpectedly yanked their service out of Tel Aviv, Rumor was Qatar strong armed them into do it. Not sure if this means anything, but where were all these people going? Where are they today?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar_Airways
Ownership and subsidiaries. As of May 2014, the company is fully owned by the Qatari government. Qatar Airways has been fully controlled by the government since July 2013, following the buyout of a 50% stake from a former foreign minister and other shareholders.

American Airlines and Qatar Airways join forces (2013)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinth...d/1818501/

WHAT'S REALLY BEHIND AMERICAN AIRLINES' CANCELLATION OF THE TEL AVIV-PHILADELPHIA ROUTE? (2015)
http://www.jpost.com/Business-and-Innova...ute-413320

Now their Arab neighbors announance that Qatar backs militant groups including so-called Islamic State (IS) and al-Qaeda, which Qatar denies. The Saudi state news agency SPA said Riyadh had closed its borders, severing land, sea and air contact with the tiny peninsula of oil-rich Qatar.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40155829

GOD HELP US! 04-jawdrop

I don't think that the code share with Qatar really had much to do with the TLV cancellation by AA. They tried flying it from PHL, which is not the most optimal hub to do so. There is a sh*tload of competition on US-ISR flights and the prices are sometimes HALF those for US-EUROPE flights, across all flight categories.

There are many airlines that have flown, and still fly to Israel AND Qatar. They include Royal Jordanian, British Airways, Egypt Air, Ethiopian, Lufthansa, Turkish and Swiss. Several of these airlines maintain codeshares with Qatar Airways.

---

Basically, for AA, its a long flight with lower fares from a non-optimal hub (or they can go compete in the NYC-TLV scrum). They also had a 20 million dollar judgement related to TWA that they're fighting too.

As soon as Qatar Airways was completely taken over by the Qatari government (2013) they entered into a code share agreement with American Airlines (2013). Very quickly passengers from muslim countries started flowing into the US on Qatar Airways/American Airlines connections by the thousands. Many traveling with burlap bags tied with string, some with $15 suitcases. Many arrived with food spilling from their luggage. Where were all those people going Tom? Where are they today Tom?



Tom now their Arab neighbors announance that Qatar backs militant groups including so-called Islamic State (IS) and al-Qaeda, which Qatar denies. The Saudi state news agency SPA said Riyadh had closed its borders, severing land, sea and air contact with the tiny peninsula of oil-rich Qatar.

They are going to visit their relatives in the US, and most of them are non-Muslims traveling from India/East Africa. Have you been on a ME3 flight?

On the flight I took from Doha back to the US, it was all I could do to keep from strangling the four year old who kept yelling "Allahu Akhbar" on the plane as he was watching a video with what I think was his older brother. What mostly pissed me off was he kept stomping up and down the aisles between family members when I was trying to sleep. And, by stomping, I mean like he was raised in a barn and had never been taught manners.

(06-05-2017 01:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The VAST majority of pax are connecting, and at least on the non-Texas ME3 flights, they're going to India. Air India sucks, so do the US carriers, and the ME3 is usually cheaper than the European airlines.
BTW, they were coming over here before ME3 started flying, but were coming on other airlines.
---
Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Kuwait, Bahrein, Oman, Assad, Iran, Egypt, and Qatar all provide support to violent groups that oppose human rights.
I don't see ANY difference between the Saudis, the Iranians, and the Qataris. We don't need their oil, their nat gas, or their human rights abuses....Why would Trump try to pick a side here....
Are you saying the Saudis are better than the Qataris or the Iranians? I wouldn't.

The Qataris are the worst of the lot, IMHO. The others seek stability, and I don't think Qatar is the least bit interested in it.

Of course, the Saudis will wail loudly about human rights complaints when it comes to someone talking about burning a Quran or drawing a cartoon of Mohammed. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians, not so much...

(06-05-2017 01:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And do you really care who 'wins' in Yemen? I guarantee it won't be human rights that wins there. Do you even know who the players are? Basically, the Saudis are stuck in an unwinnable war in Yemen. I see no reason to get involved with anyone over there.

Yemen is essentially the inverse of Syria (civilians being bombed with weapons produced in America rather than Russia). Whoever is left standing will be the winners, and the hundreds of thousands who have died will provide the motive for payback from their survivors, if they are ever able to do so.
06-26-2017 02:04 AM
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(06-06-2017 09:26 AM)JTiger Wrote:  However the royal family lives a pretty lavish lifestyle that is rumored not to be in line with Muslim teachings.

who'd a thunk money/actions would override religious doctrine......that's just crazy talk 03-wink
06-26-2017 02:15 AM
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(06-26-2017 02:15 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  
(06-06-2017 09:26 AM)JTiger Wrote:  However the royal family lives a pretty lavish lifestyle that is rumored not to be in line with Muslim teachings.

who'd a thunk money/actions would override religious doctrine......that's just crazy talk 03-wink

Yep, pretty much politics more than religion, etc....
06-26-2017 08:38 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(06-23-2017 08:49 AM)ODU BLUE Wrote:  
(06-22-2017 04:17 PM)shere khan Wrote:  Isnt 110 billion about the same amount obama gave iran?

'Close al-Jazeera': Saudi Arabia gives Qatar 13 demands to end blockade
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/j...d-blockade

The 13 demands in full

Curb diplomatic ties with Iran and close its diplomatic missions there. Expel members of Iran’s Revolutionary Guard and cut off any joint military cooperation with Iran. Only trade and commerce with Iran that complies with US and international sanctions will be permitted.

Sever all ties to “terrorist organisations”, specifically the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic State, al-Qaida and Lebanon’s Hezbollah. Formally declare those entities as terrorist groups.

Shut down al-Jazeera and its affiliate stations.

Shut down news outlets that Qatar funds, directly and indirectly, including Arabi21, Rassd, Al-Araby Al-Jadeed and Middle East Eye.

Immediately terminate the Turkish military presence in Qatar and end any joint military cooperation with Turkey inside Qatar.

Stop all means of funding for individuals, groups or organisations that have been designated as terrorists by Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt, Bahrain, the US and other countries.

Hand over “terrorist figures” and wanted individuals from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain to their countries of origin. Freeze their assets, and provide any desired information about their residency, movements and finances.

End interference in sovereign countries’ internal affairs. Stop granting citizenship to wanted nationals from Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain. Revoke Qatari citizenship for existing nationals where such citizenship violates those countries’ laws.

Stop all contacts with the political opposition in Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Egypt and Bahrain. Hand over all files detailing Qatar’s prior contacts with and support for those opposition groups.

Pay reparations and compensation for loss of life and other, financial losses caused by Qatar’s policies in recent years. The sum will be determined in coordination with Qatar.

Consent to monthly audits for the first year after agreeing to the demands, then once per quarter during the second year. For the following 10 years, Qatar would be monitored annually for compliance.

Align itself with the other Gulf and Arab countries militarily, politically, socially and economically, as well as on economic matters, in line with an agreement reached with Saudi Arabia in 2014.

Agree to all the demands within 10 days of it being submitted to Qatar, or the list becomes invalid.

IRAN IS NOT GOING TO LIKE THIS. I STILL WONDER HOW MANY BAD PEOPLE QATAR AIRWAYS FLEW TO EUROPE AND THE US UNDER OBAMA WATCH?

This sounds like an ultimatum before an invasion.
06-26-2017 09:00 AM
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ODU BLUE Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
American Airlines quits codeshare deals with Qatar, Etihad airlines

Also Wednesday, the chief executive of Qatar Airways apologized for making fun of the age of flight attendants on American air carriers.

Before apologizing, Qatar CEO Akbar Al Baker said that passengers on American carriers’ flights “are always being served by grandmothers.” He also said rival American carriers are “crap.”

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/...qatar.html
07-15-2017 01:11 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(06-05-2017 10:25 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just a fight between Saudi Arabia and Qatar for control of terrorist groups elsewhere in the ME. Nothing to see here. And no reason to sell 110 billion in weapons to either of them.

I think ME politics are often referenced, but rarely understood. Still, I'm fine w/ selling weapons, so long as they aren't used against us.

If two Arab (or any other) nations want to blow each other up, then by all means, use American munitions. In fact, I think that we're better off the more the Saudis fight the Iranians in proxy wars. It forces them to open oil taps, it puts money in our bank accounts, and it makes them (the government's, but more importantly the people) too busy hating each other to hate us.

...and who knows, maybe a couple of stray missiles will land a little west and solve about 40% of America's foreign policy problems.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 01:49 PM by nzmorange.)
07-15-2017 01:44 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(07-15-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 10:25 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just a fight between Saudi Arabia and Qatar for control of terrorist groups elsewhere in the ME. Nothing to see here. And no reason to sell 110 billion in weapons to either of them.

I think ME politics are often referenced, but rarely understood. Still, I'm fine w/ selling weapons, so long as they aren't used against us.

If two Arab (or any other) nations want to blow each other up, then by all means, use American munitions. In fact, I think that we're better off the more the Saudis fight the Iranians in proxy wars. It forces them to open oil taps, it puts money in our bank accounts, and it makes them (the government's, but more importantly the people) too busy hating each other to hate us.

...and who knows, maybe a couple of stray missiles will land a little west and solve about 40% of America's foreign policy problems.

Yea, but you can't control how many of those weapons AREN'T used in Yemen. Some might go to the next ISIS, which will be formed exactly 5 minutes after ISIS is defeated.

The foreign policy problem is largely related to the rivalry between the Saudis and the Iranians. Do anything to help one, or hurt the other, and it just makes things worse. Obama got that. Trump doesn't. The whole point of the Iran deal was to even the playing field and make both sides COMPETE for our attention. Trump's plan....go to the Qataris and ask for 500 Million for his personal family business, then go after them as the USA when they didn't pay up. I can only imagine how much the Saudis funneled to him and his family. We will find that out eventually.
(This post was last modified: 07-15-2017 02:05 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
07-15-2017 02:00 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Arabs cutting ties with Arabs
(07-15-2017 02:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(07-15-2017 01:44 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 10:25 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Just a fight between Saudi Arabia and Qatar for control of terrorist groups elsewhere in the ME. Nothing to see here. And no reason to sell 110 billion in weapons to either of them.

I think ME politics are often referenced, but rarely understood. Still, I'm fine w/ selling weapons, so long as they aren't used against us.

If two Arab (or any other) nations want to blow each other up, then by all means, use American munitions. In fact, I think that we're better off the more the Saudis fight the Iranians in proxy wars. It forces them to open oil taps, it puts money in our bank accounts, and it makes them (the government's, but more importantly the people) too busy hating each other to hate us.

...and who knows, maybe a couple of stray missiles will land a little west and solve about 40% of America's foreign policy problems.

Yea, but you can't control how many of those weapons AREN'T used in Yemen. Some might go to the next ISIS, which will be formed exactly 5 minutes after ISIS is defeated.

The foreign policy problem is largely related to the rivalry between the Saudis and the Iranians. Do anything to help one, or hurt the other, and it just makes things worse. Obama got that. Trump doesn't. The whole point of the Iran deal was to even the playing field and make both sides COMPETE for our attention. Trump's plan....go to the Qataris and ask for 500 Million for his personal family business, then go after them as the USA when they didn't pay up. I can only imagine how much the Saudis funneled to him and his family. We will find that out eventually.

Take Trump out of it, and it's my understanding that the vast majority of the weapons are used very shortly after they're bought/sold (weeks if not days). Also, I have no doubt that the Russians are doing back flips to arm the Iranians. They need the money.

Combined, a Saudi-Iran conflict is an oil-fueled pillow fight where the only winners are the arms dealers, us and ze USSR2.0.
07-15-2017 02:56 PM
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