Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
Author Message
ken d Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,335
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 1211
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #21
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 09:54 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(06-04-2017 08:48 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  We don't hear much talk about the impact of all of the FCS move ups to FBS this decade but the talent transfer from the top ranks of FCS to FBS I feel significant.

Think for one moment about 8 new schools in the Southeast that have moved up. An entire conference full of schools.

Liberty
Old Dominion
Appalachian State
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
South Alabama

1. This adds a whole level of competition at the G5 level where previously there was nobody in this region outside of ECU and maybe Troy/UAB.

2. Ten years ago this group had about 230 scholarships (Liberty, App, GaSo, Coastal). Within another year that number will be 680 scholarships. Scholarships that to a small degree will cut into higher level FBS conferences but mostly the very cream of the FCS players and other hidden gems now with an opportunity at the top level.

3. Then another 30-40 walk-ons per school many of whom would be scholarship at a lower level. FBS programs have a richer, deeper walk-on program than what FCS schools tend to do.

I am of the opinion that not enough years have gone by to completely see the full impact yet. Give it another 5 years or so and there won't be much left of Southern FCS football.

That's why I think you'll see by committee more and more G5 schools in the Top 25 like you do with non-P5s in men's basketball. There won't be a ceiling as to how high a school can be ranked, if they make the schedule.

There are two gaps growing. The P5 from the G5 and the MWC/AAC from the bottom 3 G5. The SBC, MAC, CUSA are a lot closer to the MVFC and CAA then they want anyone to believe.

Since 2003, when the BCS poll was increased to include the Top 25 teams instead of just 15, twenty different G5 schools have finished in the Top 25 in the final (pre-bowl) ranking.

Of these, 7 are currently in the AAC, and 6 each from the MAC and MWC. One C-USA team made the list (Southern Miss was #21 in 2011) and no SBC school has yet done so.

Of those twenty schools, eight were ranked two or more years. Boise State made it 10 times, and Cincinnati 3. Six schools made it twice (Temple, Navy, Houston, UCF, Northern Illinois and Hawaii). Twelve schools have one appearance each.

Not coincidentally, those three conferences have the fewest FCS to FBS move ups over the past 30 years. C-USA has 11 members who have moved up, and the SBC has 9 (not including Idaho, which is moving back down). Three of the 30 schools to move up to FBS were ranked once in those 14 years (USF, UConn and Nevada). No move ups from the other three G5 conferences have been ranked.
06-05-2017 11:06 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,011
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 732
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #22
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 12:29 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The gap has grown overall between the MAC and MVC FB.

NDSU is one of the few legit programs around yet in FCS. They aren't directly in the MAC's backyard anyways.

"Tweener" guys that are an inch to short for the P5 but have all state tools end up in the G5 where they play behind an offensive line of perpetual 5th year starters can be used in many creative ways. These diamonds in the rough if they don't make scholarship are sucked up by walk-on programs. G5 programs strategically are loading up on speed at key positions.

The MAC back in the day didn't offer the full allotment of scholarships as the other FBS conferences. Then up until the last 10 years or so they didn't have walk-on programs maxed out. At this point its fair to say what Buffalo and Akron can do (a once in a while Potato Bowl).

For many of the SBC/CUSA/Indy call ups the jury is still out. Can some of the newbies like App State who are really good every year start to push with the ACC for recruits? Does that make them that much more dominant in their conferences?

Then you get the Boise State effect where every G5 conference has a couple teams steam roll through the schedule. Instead of having it be just Boise State, Utah and TCU it could be 6,8,10 teams doing that. Over time they earn respect.


Northern Iowa, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, South Dakota State, Western Illinois and Indiana State all have beaten FBS schools in the last 20 or so years.
McNeese State and UCA are two of the top schools in the Southland that have played great games against FBS schools. James Madison and Jacksonville State both can claimed to fame to upsetting P5 schools. Towson and Chattanooga also made it a game with their P5 opponents. There are schools in the top conferences down at the FCS level have talent that are like G5. Look at Eastern Washington?
06-05-2017 11:48 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,011
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 732
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #23
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 11:06 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 09:54 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(06-04-2017 08:48 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  We don't hear much talk about the impact of all of the FCS move ups to FBS this decade but the talent transfer from the top ranks of FCS to FBS I feel significant.

Think for one moment about 8 new schools in the Southeast that have moved up. An entire conference full of schools.

Liberty
Old Dominion
Appalachian State
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
South Alabama

1. This adds a whole level of competition at the G5 level where previously there was nobody in this region outside of ECU and maybe Troy/UAB.

2. Ten years ago this group had about 230 scholarships (Liberty, App, GaSo, Coastal). Within another year that number will be 680 scholarships. Scholarships that to a small degree will cut into higher level FBS conferences but mostly the very cream of the FCS players and other hidden gems now with an opportunity at the top level.

3. Then another 30-40 walk-ons per school many of whom would be scholarship at a lower level. FBS programs have a richer, deeper walk-on program than what FCS schools tend to do.

I am of the opinion that not enough years have gone by to completely see the full impact yet. Give it another 5 years or so and there won't be much left of Southern FCS football.

That's why I think you'll see by committee more and more G5 schools in the Top 25 like you do with non-P5s in men's basketball. There won't be a ceiling as to how high a school can be ranked, if they make the schedule.

There are two gaps growing. The P5 from the G5 and the MWC/AAC from the bottom 3 G5. The SBC, MAC, CUSA are a lot closer to the MVFC and CAA then they want anyone to believe.

Since 2003, when the BCS poll was increased to include the Top 25 teams instead of just 15, twenty different G5 schools have finished in the Top 25 in the final (pre-bowl) ranking.

Of these, 7 are currently in the AAC, and 6 each from the MAC and MWC. One C-USA team made the list (Southern Miss was #21 in 2011) and no SBC school has yet done so.

Of those twenty schools, eight were ranked two or more years. Boise State made it 10 times, and Cincinnati 3. Six schools made it twice (Temple, Navy, Houston, UCF, Northern Illinois and Hawaii). Twelve schools have one appearance each.

Not coincidentally, those three conferences have the fewest FCS to FBS move ups over the past 30 years. C-USA has 11 members who have moved up, and the SBC has 9 (not including Idaho, which is moving back down). Three of the 30 schools to move up to FBS were ranked once in those 14 years (USF, UConn and Nevada). No move ups from the other three G5 conferences have been ranked.


Cincinnati and USF do not count. They were part of the Power Conference at the time they were ranked inside the top 25. UCF was also in the top 25 once when they were in the last year when AAC was a power conference. Houston and them after the UCF would now count..

Now, as we have seen at the end of the AP polls each year for the final polls? We have seen schools like North Dakota State, Eastern Washington, MCneese State and now James Madison garner some votes to be part of the FBS football schools. So, sports writers do think schools from MVFC, CAA, Southland and Big Sky are more equals to G5 schools. Jacksonville State could be on this list as well.
06-05-2017 11:58 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
balanced_view Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,069
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 105
I Root For: Louisiana
Location:
Post: #24
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 11:48 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 12:29 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The gap has grown overall between the MAC and MVC FB.

NDSU is one of the few legit programs around yet in FCS. They aren't directly in the MAC's backyard anyways.

"Tweener" guys that are an inch to short for the P5 but have all state tools end up in the G5 where they play behind an offensive line of perpetual 5th year starters can be used in many creative ways. These diamonds in the rough if they don't make scholarship are sucked up by walk-on programs. G5 programs strategically are loading up on speed at key positions.

The MAC back in the day didn't offer the full allotment of scholarships as the other FBS conferences. Then up until the last 10 years or so they didn't have walk-on programs maxed out. At this point its fair to say what Buffalo and Akron can do (a once in a while Potato Bowl).

For many of the SBC/CUSA/Indy call ups the jury is still out. Can some of the newbies like App State who are really good every year start to push with the ACC for recruits? Does that make them that much more dominant in their conferences?

Then you get the Boise State effect where every G5 conference has a couple teams steam roll through the schedule. Instead of having it be just Boise State, Utah and TCU it could be 6,8,10 teams doing that. Over time they earn respect.


Northern Iowa, Illinois State, Southern Illinois, South Dakota State, Western Illinois and Indiana State all have beaten FBS schools in the last 20 or so years.
McNeese State and UCA are two of the top schools in the Southland that have played great games against FBS schools. James Madison and Jacksonville State both can claimed to fame to upsetting P5 schools. Towson and Chattanooga also made it a game with their P5 opponents. There are schools in the top conferences down at the FCS level have talent that are like G5. Look at Eastern Washington?

couple of things, going back 20 years to find fbs wins for fcs programs doesn't tell if that program can compete today. also if you are including great games that still lost, for McNeese and uca, towson, chattanooga then every one of the 65 or so g5 schools can claim the same equal competiveness against the p5. now let me be generous and give you the benefit of the doubt, and include every school you listed, 13 teams out of 124, that's 10% of fcs teams you credit to be completive and have talent like g5.
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2017 12:15 PM by balanced_view.)
06-05-2017 12:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
balanced_view Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,069
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 105
I Root For: Louisiana
Location:
Post: #25
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 06:37 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  If you gonna include all of the schools in the bottom g5 conferences Id say the the top portion of most fcs conferences would be competitive in those conferences. Both levels have bottom dwellers in there conference who isnt really competitive with anyone. But without actually counting Id guess more than 30 teams. Keep in mind the g5 should be head and shoulders above the fcs. Especially when you factor in the self imposed limitations the fcs has imposed on themselves. The real question is why are these g5 school so uncompetitive?

the g5 is head and shoulders above fcs! if you are comparing the 2 as a whole. now im sure you can find a few examples to support a few fcs teams being successful against the g5, but im sure you will see the same few teams over and over. I highly doubt its anywhere close to 30 as you guess.
06-05-2017 12:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jacksfan29 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 592
Joined: May 2016
Reputation: 19
I Root For: So Dak St/CU
Location: Western Colorado
Post: #26
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 12:27 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 06:37 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  If you gonna include all of the schools in the bottom g5 conferences Id say the the top portion of most fcs conferences would be competitive in those conferences. Both levels have bottom dwellers in there conference who isnt really competitive with anyone. But without actually counting Id guess more than 30 teams. Keep in mind the g5 should be head and shoulders above the fcs. Especially when you factor in the self imposed limitations the fcs has imposed on themselves. The real question is why are these g5 school so uncompetitive?

the g5 is head and shoulders above fcs! if you are comparing the 2 as a whole. now im sure you can find a few examples to support a few fcs teams being successful against the g5, but im sure you will see the same few teams over and over. I highly doubt its anywhere close to 30 as you guess.

Not comparing the two as a whole. Instead, I'll take the top 2 FCS leagues (MVFC, CAA) and and the bottom 3 G5 leagues and I can tell you, top to bottom they are far closer then you think they are.

The reality is almost every team in the bottom 3 G5 leagues are FBS in name only. As for the top FCS being successful against G5. Most G5 won't play the better FCS schools. Why? Who wants to pay someone a quarter of a million to get their ass handed to them, at home.
06-05-2017 12:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ark30inf Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,639
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation: 588
I Root For: Arkansas State
Location:
Post: #27
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
All other things being equal, a recruit is going to choose an FBS invite over FCS.

All things are not equal however, and lots of factors go into a choice.

But over time, that bias will continue to seperate G5 from FCS in general terms.

At the same time, more G5 schools dilute the pool. P5 are still going to get their recruits so there is a similar effect between P5 and G5.

I think it firms up the 3-tier barriers.

The early signing period may help G5 counteract it a little.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
06-05-2017 12:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
mturn017 Offline
ODU Homer
*

Posts: 16,740
Joined: May 2012
Reputation: 1592
I Root For: Old Dominion
Location: Roanoke, VA
Post: #28
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 12:56 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 12:27 PM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 06:37 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  If you gonna include all of the schools in the bottom g5 conferences Id say the the top portion of most fcs conferences would be competitive in those conferences. Both levels have bottom dwellers in there conference who isnt really competitive with anyone. But without actually counting Id guess more than 30 teams. Keep in mind the g5 should be head and shoulders above the fcs. Especially when you factor in the self imposed limitations the fcs has imposed on themselves. The real question is why are these g5 school so uncompetitive?

the g5 is head and shoulders above fcs! if you are comparing the 2 as a whole. now im sure you can find a few examples to support a few fcs teams being successful against the g5, but im sure you will see the same few teams over and over. I highly doubt its anywhere close to 30 as you guess.

Not comparing the two as a whole. Instead, I'll take the top 2 FCS leagues (MVFC, CAA) and and the bottom 3 G5 leagues and I can tell you, top to bottom they are far closer then you think they are.

The reality is almost every team in the bottom 3 G5 leagues are FBS in name only. As for the top FCS being successful against G5. Most G5 won't play the better FCS schools. Why? Who wants to pay someone a quarter of a million to get their ass handed to them, at home.

Top to bottom? No. All the FBS leagues are much better. At the top there are teams that can compete but still I'd take have taken any of WMU, App St, Ark St, WKU over JMU last year. But the Dukes probably wouldn't have been at the bottom of any of those conferences.
06-05-2017 01:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ark30inf Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,639
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation: 588
I Root For: Arkansas State
Location:
Post: #29
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
Lot of FCS wishful thinking in this thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
06-05-2017 01:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 25,818
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 967
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #30
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 12:56 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  All other things being equal, a recruit is going to choose an FBS invite over FCS.

All things are not equal however, and lots of factors go into a choice.

But over time, that bias will continue to seperate G5 from FCS in general terms.

At the same time, more G5 schools dilute the pool. P5 are still going to get their recruits so there is a similar effect between P5 and G5.

I think it firms up the 3-tier barriers.

The early signing period may help G5 counteract it a little.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Most FCS are giving out 41 to 50 full rides and splitting the rest. The guy you need for depth and want to give 50% to may just be the stud a Division II needs and is willing to give him a full ride.

Meanwhile FBS G5's are throwing around stipend cash that you may or may not be able to match.

Yesterday a kid named Cameron Myers was on twitter talking about playing football with his brother at FCS Central Arkansas. Today he get's an offer from AState and commits to the Red Wolves, and if Georgia Tech offers him in October, we are looking for a new RB. That's just how it tends to work out.
06-05-2017 01:25 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ark30inf Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,639
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation: 588
I Root For: Arkansas State
Location:
Post: #31
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 01:25 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 12:56 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  All other things being equal, a recruit is going to choose an FBS invite over FCS.

All things are not equal however, and lots of factors go into a choice.

But over time, that bias will continue to seperate G5 from FCS in general terms.

At the same time, more G5 schools dilute the pool. P5 are still going to get their recruits so there is a similar effect between P5 and G5.

I think it firms up the 3-tier barriers.

The early signing period may help G5 counteract it a little.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Most FCS are giving out 41 to 50 full rides and splitting the rest. The guy you need for depth and want to give 50% to may just be the stud a Division II needs and is willing to give him a full ride.

Meanwhile FBS G5's are throwing around stipend cash that you may or may not be able to match.

Yesterday a kid named Cameron Myers was on twitter talking about playing football with his brother at FCS Central Arkansas. Today he get's an offer from AState and commits to the Red Wolves, and if Georgia Tech offers him in October, we are looking for a new RB. That's just how it tends to work out.

Yeah, thats how I'm seeing it too.

Do you think early signing will play into this dynamic at all?
(This post was last modified: 06-05-2017 01:29 PM by ark30inf.)
06-05-2017 01:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 25,818
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 967
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #32
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 01:28 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 01:25 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 12:56 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  All other things being equal, a recruit is going to choose an FBS invite over FCS.

All things are not equal however, and lots of factors go into a choice.

But over time, that bias will continue to seperate G5 from FCS in general terms.

At the same time, more G5 schools dilute the pool. P5 are still going to get their recruits so there is a similar effect between P5 and G5.

I think it firms up the 3-tier barriers.

The early signing period may help G5 counteract it a little.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Most FCS are giving out 41 to 50 full rides and splitting the rest. The guy you need for depth and want to give 50% to may just be the stud a Division II needs and is willing to give him a full ride.

Meanwhile FBS G5's are throwing around stipend cash that you may or may not be able to match.

Yesterday a kid named Cameron Myers was on twitter talking about playing football with his brother at FCS Central Arkansas. Today he get's an offer from AState and commits to the Red Wolves, and if Georgia Tech offers him in October, we are looking for a new RB. That's just how it tends to work out.

Yeah, thats how I'm seeing it too.

Do you think early signing will play into this dynamic at all?

Just moves the timeline up 8 weeks.
06-05-2017 01:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ark30inf Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 11,639
Joined: Oct 2007
Reputation: 588
I Root For: Arkansas State
Location:
Post: #33
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 01:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 01:28 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 01:25 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 12:56 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  All other things being equal, a recruit is going to choose an FBS invite over FCS.

All things are not equal however, and lots of factors go into a choice.

But over time, that bias will continue to seperate G5 from FCS in general terms.

At the same time, more G5 schools dilute the pool. P5 are still going to get their recruits so there is a similar effect between P5 and G5.

I think it firms up the 3-tier barriers.

The early signing period may help G5 counteract it a little.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

Most FCS are giving out 41 to 50 full rides and splitting the rest. The guy you need for depth and want to give 50% to may just be the stud a Division II needs and is willing to give him a full ride.

Meanwhile FBS G5's are throwing around stipend cash that you may or may not be able to match.

Yesterday a kid named Cameron Myers was on twitter talking about playing football with his brother at FCS Central Arkansas. Today he get's an offer from AState and commits to the Red Wolves, and if Georgia Tech offers him in October, we are looking for a new RB. That's just how it tends to work out.

Yeah, thats how I'm seeing it too.

Do you think early signing will play into this dynamic at all?

Just moves the timeline up 8 weeks.
Some guys are going to find out they don't really have a legit P5 offer with time to spare.

Thought that might lead them more toward legit G5 offers.
06-05-2017 01:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
EagleNationRising Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,926
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 70
I Root For: GaSouthern
Location:
Post: #34
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
Fun thread with a lot of people both right and wrong on both sides of the argument. For whoever that said that G5's don't play good FCS teams...Georgia Southern played a pretty good FCS playoff Citadel team in 2015, and it went pretty much as expected. I'm sure there are other examples out there.
06-05-2017 01:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,011
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 732
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #35
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 01:14 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Lot of FCS wishful thinking in this thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


How was the hangover last year in Jonesboro the day after Arkansas State lost to Central Arkansas in football?
06-05-2017 07:04 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dbackjon Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,010
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 657
I Root For: NAU/Illini
Location:
Post: #36
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 06:21 AM)balanced_view Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 05:51 AM)cleburneslim Wrote:  Many g5 spend 2x the money to gather the same crowd and ability on the field. It has to use falsely inflated attendance numbers to appear to justify the spending and many or most will not play competitive fcs teams. Imo the top level of fcs is competitive with the lower half g5 sbc cusa and mac. The upper g5 probably has an on field advantage which is at least in part due to the self imposed limited number of scholarships and the lower fcs is probably competitive with the upper d2 schools. Seems like blurred lines to me.

so how many schools do you consider to be the top level of fcs? im guessing your going to count about 6 or 7 teams, out of 124. so about 5% of fcs teams can can be competitive with those 3 entire conferences. is that what your saying?? and I understand that your school would be included in the top 5%

When App State and Georgia Southern moved to the Sun Belt a few years ago, I said they would be immediately among the best teams in the conference. Most all Sun Belt followers ridiculed me for that. But I was proven right - App and GSU are two of the top three programs in the Sun Belt. The gap isn't that big.
06-05-2017 07:12 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dbackjon Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 12,010
Joined: May 2010
Reputation: 657
I Root For: NAU/Illini
Location:
Post: #37
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 11:06 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 09:54 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(06-04-2017 08:48 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  We don't hear much talk about the impact of all of the FCS move ups to FBS this decade but the talent transfer from the top ranks of FCS to FBS I feel significant.

Think for one moment about 8 new schools in the Southeast that have moved up. An entire conference full of schools.

Liberty
Old Dominion
Appalachian State
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
South Alabama

1. This adds a whole level of competition at the G5 level where previously there was nobody in this region outside of ECU and maybe Troy/UAB.

2. Ten years ago this group had about 230 scholarships (Liberty, App, GaSo, Coastal). Within another year that number will be 680 scholarships. Scholarships that to a small degree will cut into higher level FBS conferences but mostly the very cream of the FCS players and other hidden gems now with an opportunity at the top level.

3. Then another 30-40 walk-ons per school many of whom would be scholarship at a lower level. FBS programs have a richer, deeper walk-on program than what FCS schools tend to do.

I am of the opinion that not enough years have gone by to completely see the full impact yet. Give it another 5 years or so and there won't be much left of Southern FCS football.

That's why I think you'll see by committee more and more G5 schools in the Top 25 like you do with non-P5s in men's basketball. There won't be a ceiling as to how high a school can be ranked, if they make the schedule.

There are two gaps growing. The P5 from the G5 and the MWC/AAC from the bottom 3 G5. The SBC, MAC, CUSA are a lot closer to the MVFC and CAA then they want anyone to believe.

Since 2003, when the BCS poll was increased to include the Top 25 teams instead of just 15, twenty different G5 schools have finished in the Top 25 in the final (pre-bowl) ranking.

Of these, 7 are currently in the AAC, and 6 each from the MAC and MWC. One C-USA team made the list (Southern Miss was #21 in 2011) and no SBC school has yet done so.

Of those twenty schools, eight were ranked two or more years. Boise State made it 10 times, and Cincinnati 3. Six schools made it twice (Temple, Navy, Houston, UCF, Northern Illinois and Hawaii). Twelve schools have one appearance each.

Not coincidentally, those three conferences have the fewest FCS to FBS move ups over the past 30 years. C-USA has 11 members who have moved up, and the SBC has 9 (not including Idaho, which is moving back down). Three of the 30 schools to move up to FBS were ranked once in those 14 years (USF, UConn and Nevada). No move ups from the other three G5 conferences have been ranked.

But, Boise, which accounts for many those spots, is a FCS move-up...
06-05-2017 07:14 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 23,011
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 732
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #38
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 01:52 PM)EagleNationRising Wrote:  Fun thread with a lot of people both right and wrong on both sides of the argument. For whoever that said that G5's don't play good FCS teams...Georgia Southern played a pretty good FCS playoff Citadel team in 2015, and it went pretty much as expected. I'm sure there are other examples out there.


A couple of years ago, McNeese State almost upset Nebraska on Nebraska's home turf.
Nebraska 31 McNeese State 24

Richmond over Virginia 2016
Sacramento State over Colorado 2012
Jacksonville State over Ole Miss. 2009 and they almost beat Auburn as well.
Montana State over Colorado 2006
The Citadel over South Carolina 2015
Portland State over Washington State 2015
Youngstown State over Pittsburgh 2012
UC-Davis over Stanford 2005
Eastern Washington over Oregon State 2013
James Madison over Virginia Tech 2010

I did not add MVFC or other CAA schools since they are already mentioned.
Southern Conference have a share of wins over FBS schools in recent years and so have Southland and Big Sky.

There is a gap growing between the top FCS conferences from the bottom FCS conferences.

Big Sky, MVFC, CAA, Southland and Southern have played FBS schools tough. Jacksonville State and Tennessee State had their moments as well.

Imagine how these teams that upset FBS teams could do now if they have moved up back then?

Sacramento State and Portland State could have recruited better if they were in FBS WAC a few years ago. Chattanooga and Towson could recruit better, and be much better.

As it is, kids want to start at the highest levels. It turns out that a lot of talent wind up in FCS or lower. Carson Wentz is one to name a few who got drafted in the first round in the NFL draft.
06-05-2017 07:21 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 25,818
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 967
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #39
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 07:04 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 01:14 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Lot of FCS wishful thinking in this thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


How was the hangover last year in Jonesboro the day after Arkansas State lost to Central Arkansas in football?

It was really good. Lit a damn fire under the coach to understand he had a problem on his hands. They were able to excuse away Toledo, Auburn, and Utah State (absolutely one of the most embarrassing games I've ever attended). UCA saved the season because the excuses no longer worked.
06-06-2017 09:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 17,335
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 1211
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #40
RE: Is the G5 pulling away from FCS?
(06-05-2017 07:14 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 11:06 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(06-05-2017 09:54 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(06-04-2017 08:48 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  We don't hear much talk about the impact of all of the FCS move ups to FBS this decade but the talent transfer from the top ranks of FCS to FBS I feel significant.

Think for one moment about 8 new schools in the Southeast that have moved up. An entire conference full of schools.

Liberty
Old Dominion
Appalachian State
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
South Alabama

1. This adds a whole level of competition at the G5 level where previously there was nobody in this region outside of ECU and maybe Troy/UAB.

2. Ten years ago this group had about 230 scholarships (Liberty, App, GaSo, Coastal). Within another year that number will be 680 scholarships. Scholarships that to a small degree will cut into higher level FBS conferences but mostly the very cream of the FCS players and other hidden gems now with an opportunity at the top level.

3. Then another 30-40 walk-ons per school many of whom would be scholarship at a lower level. FBS programs have a richer, deeper walk-on program than what FCS schools tend to do.

I am of the opinion that not enough years have gone by to completely see the full impact yet. Give it another 5 years or so and there won't be much left of Southern FCS football.

That's why I think you'll see by committee more and more G5 schools in the Top 25 like you do with non-P5s in men's basketball. There won't be a ceiling as to how high a school can be ranked, if they make the schedule.

There are two gaps growing. The P5 from the G5 and the MWC/AAC from the bottom 3 G5. The SBC, MAC, CUSA are a lot closer to the MVFC and CAA then they want anyone to believe.

Since 2003, when the BCS poll was increased to include the Top 25 teams instead of just 15, twenty different G5 schools have finished in the Top 25 in the final (pre-bowl) ranking.

Of these, 7 are currently in the AAC, and 6 each from the MAC and MWC. One C-USA team made the list (Southern Miss was #21 in 2011) and no SBC school has yet done so.

Of those twenty schools, eight were ranked two or more years. Boise State made it 10 times, and Cincinnati 3. Six schools made it twice (Temple, Navy, Houston, UCF, Northern Illinois and Hawaii). Twelve schools have one appearance each.

Not coincidentally, those three conferences have the fewest FCS to FBS move ups over the past 30 years. C-USA has 11 members who have moved up, and the SBC has 9 (not including Idaho, which is moving back down). Three of the 30 schools to move up to FBS were ranked once in those 14 years (USF, UConn and Nevada). No move ups from the other three G5 conferences have been ranked.

But, Boise, which accounts for many those spots, is a FCS move-up...

As are UCF, USF, UConn and Nevada. I'm not sure what your point is, but mine was that that the two FBS conferences comprised mostly of FCS move-ups, C-USA and the SBC, haven't done as well as the G5 conferences comprised mainly of teams that were FBS at the time of the split. They are more like the top FCS teams than most FBS teams.
06-06-2017 09:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2024 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2024 MyBB Group.