Wow, what a finish by the Warriors. Finish on an 11 - 0 run.

Cavs go brain dead in the last minute. Had the ball with what, 44 seconds left, and don't go for the 2 for 1. Then miss the shot, and don't immediately foul.

Looks like KD gets his ring, justifying his decision last summer.

And boy has Lebron's defense regressed, KD got his shot whenever he wanted. And Lebron was going under on screens. To me, that shows he is tired, trying to save energy on D.

Gotta give it to Durant.

By any real view, Cleveland and GST were remarkably even the last few seasons, focusing on the post season, which is what really matters. Kudos to Oakland for winning tons of regular season games, but when it counted the most, both teams were excellent, conference champions, and very even in the finals.

2015 saw Oakland win 4-2, with two overtime games to start the series, then on Kylie Irving or Kevin Love the last five games, but a very competitive set of games nonetheless.

2016 saw a Cleveland win 4-3, winning a very close game seven on the road. Indeed, starter Draymond Green missed a game (although GST lost three games that he played in), and most of the individual games were fairly lopsided before game seven, save one, a GST 4th quarter win in game four.

Then, Kevin Durant, by nearly any definition, went to play for Golden State and that seems to have shifted two very even teams to one having an advantage. Cleveland did not add anything close to a Kevin Durant.

This is not complicated.

Had Durant signed with Cleveland, and Cleveland kept Love, Irving and James, they would have become better than GST.

Cleveland is excellent, but with Durant, GST is more excellent. And Kyle Korver missed that open three. Then Durant hit his.

Long terms, no issues with two dominant teams, but, if this summer's top free agent, who will not be As strong as Durant but will be real good nonetheless, goes to Cleveland, that does not bode well...in my opinion.

Shaq left Orlando for LA, making LA a title contender.
Barkley left Philly for Phoenix, making Phoenix a contender.
James left Cleveland for Miami, making them a contender.
Durant went, not to a champion but certainly to a contender.

Of course it mattered...but feels different. Should they get this last game, and I give them about a 99.5% chance to win one more game, he clearly made a solid decision by turning a title contender into a title winning club.

Good points Mimi.

Couple of things. Cleveland can't sign a big FA this summer, cause they are over the cap. Almost impossible to dump enough salary when you are over the cap.

And the Durant thing was such a one-off. Biggest increase in salary cap in history. GS had 3 all-star players at below average salaries, including the 2-time reigning MVP.

And, GS had offered Harrison Barnes a 4-year contract extension which Barnes rejected. If Barnes had accepted, GS would not have been able to make Durant a max offer.

(06-08-2017 10:38 AM)Mimi Wrote:  Gotta give it to Durant.

By any real view, Cleveland and GST were remarkably even the last few seasons, focusing on the post season, which is what really matters. Kudos to Oakland for winning tons of regular season games, but when it counted the most, both teams were excellent, conference champions, and very even in the finals.

2015 saw Oakland win 4-2, with two overtime games to start the series, then on Kylie Irving or Kevin Love the last five games, but a very competitive set of games nonetheless.

2016 saw a Cleveland win 4-3, winning a very close game seven on the road. Indeed, starter Draymond Green missed a game (although GST lost three games that he played in), and most of the individual games were fairly lopsided before game seven, save one, a GST 4th quarter win in game four.

Then, Kevin Durant, by nearly any definition, went to play for Golden State and that seems to have shifted two very even teams to one having an advantage. Cleveland did not add anything close to a Kevin Durant.

This is not complicated.

Had Durant signed with Cleveland, and Cleveland kept Love, Irving and James, they would have become better than GST.

Cleveland is excellent, but with Durant, GST is more excellent. And Kyle Korver missed that open three. Then Durant hit his.

Long terms, no issues with two dominant teams, but, if this summer's top free agent, who will not be As strong as Durant but will be real good nonetheless, goes to Cleveland, that does not bode well...in my opinion.

Shaq left Orlando for LA, making LA a title contender.
Barkley left Philly for Phoenix, making Phoenix a contender.
James left Cleveland for Miami, making them a contender.
Durant went, not to a champion but certainly to a contender.

Of course it mattered...but feels different. Should they get this last game, and I give them about a 99.5% chance to win one more game, he clearly made a solid decision by turning a title contender into a title winning club.

GS probably would have won the championship this year without Durant. He made a clown move that gets 0 respect from me

We will disagree on that.

Cleveland and GST were both great and favorites in their conferences. But absent Durant, they were very similar and I would argue even a small advantage to Cleveland. But that is a separate issue.

GST does have Durant, an exceptional player in his prime and they did not have him last year.

(06-08-2017 06:44 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  GS probably would have won the championship this year without Durant. He made a clown move that gets 0 respect from me

That'll keep him up at night...

(06-09-2017 02:00 PM)JerryJeff Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 06:44 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  GS probably would have won the championship this year without Durant. He made a clown move that gets 0 respect from me

That'll keep him up at night...

I don't give a damn about no Dynamos ...

(06-08-2017 06:44 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 10:38 AM)Mimi Wrote:  Gotta give it to Durant.

By any real view, Cleveland and GST were remarkably even the last few seasons, focusing on the post season, which is what really matters. Kudos to Oakland for winning tons of regular season games, but when it counted the most, both teams were excellent, conference champions, and very even in the finals.

2015 saw Oakland win 4-2, with two overtime games to start the series, then on Kylie Irving or Kevin Love the last five games, but a very competitive set of games nonetheless.

2016 saw a Cleveland win 4-3, winning a very close game seven on the road. Indeed, starter Draymond Green missed a game (although GST lost three games that he played in), and most of the individual games were fairly lopsided before game seven, save one, a GST 4th quarter win in game four.

Then, Kevin Durant, by nearly any definition, went to play for Golden State and that seems to have shifted two very even teams to one having an advantage. Cleveland did not add anything close to a Kevin Durant.

This is not complicated.

Had Durant signed with Cleveland, and Cleveland kept Love, Irving and James, they would have become better than GST.

Cleveland is excellent, but with Durant, GST is more excellent. And Kyle Korver missed that open three. Then Durant hit his.

Long terms, no issues with two dominant teams, but, if this summer's top free agent, who will not be As strong as Durant but will be real good nonetheless, goes to Cleveland, that does not bode well...in my opinion.

Shaq left Orlando for LA, making LA a title contender.
Barkley left Philly for Phoenix, making Phoenix a contender.
James left Cleveland for Miami, making them a contender.
Durant went, not to a champion but certainly to a contender.

Of course it mattered...but feels different. Should they get this last game, and I give them about a 99.5% chance to win one more game, he clearly made a solid decision by turning a title contender into a title winning club.

GS probably would have won the championship this year without Durant. He made a clown move that gets 0 respect from me

I absolutely do not get this train of thought. Players go to winning teams when given the opportunity.

(06-11-2017 12:48 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 06:44 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 10:38 AM)Mimi Wrote:  Gotta give it to Durant.

By any real view, Cleveland and GST were remarkably even the last few seasons, focusing on the post season, which is what really matters. Kudos to Oakland for winning tons of regular season games, but when it counted the most, both teams were excellent, conference champions, and very even in the finals.

2015 saw Oakland win 4-2, with two overtime games to start the series, then on Kylie Irving or Kevin Love the last five games, but a very competitive set of games nonetheless.

2016 saw a Cleveland win 4-3, winning a very close game seven on the road. Indeed, starter Draymond Green missed a game (although GST lost three games that he played in), and most of the individual games were fairly lopsided before game seven, save one, a GST 4th quarter win in game four.

Then, Kevin Durant, by nearly any definition, went to play for Golden State and that seems to have shifted two very even teams to one having an advantage. Cleveland did not add anything close to a Kevin Durant.

This is not complicated.

Had Durant signed with Cleveland, and Cleveland kept Love, Irving and James, they would have become better than GST.

Cleveland is excellent, but with Durant, GST is more excellent. And Kyle Korver missed that open three. Then Durant hit his.

Long terms, no issues with two dominant teams, but, if this summer's top free agent, who will not be As strong as Durant but will be real good nonetheless, goes to Cleveland, that does not bode well...in my opinion.

Shaq left Orlando for LA, making LA a title contender.
Barkley left Philly for Phoenix, making Phoenix a contender.
James left Cleveland for Miami, making them a contender.
Durant went, not to a champion but certainly to a contender.

Of course it mattered...but feels different. Should they get this last game, and I give them about a 99.5% chance to win one more game, he clearly made a solid decision by turning a title contender into a title winning club.

GS probably would have won the championship this year without Durant. He made a clown move that gets 0 respect from me

I absolutely do not get this train of thought. Players go to winning teams when given the opportunity.

It is a Legacy deal...Not saying it is wrong but Durant will never be considered one of the greatest if he always plays with Curry and Thompson. I don't care how many they win because they essentially won 2 before he got there.

On another note if the Finals go 7 and Lebron averages 30, 10 and 10 he should get MVP unless Kevin Somehow matches him.

(06-11-2017 12:48 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 06:44 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(06-08-2017 10:38 AM)Mimi Wrote:  Gotta give it to Durant.

By any real view, Cleveland and GST were remarkably even the last few seasons, focusing on the post season, which is what really matters. Kudos to Oakland for winning tons of regular season games, but when it counted the most, both teams were excellent, conference champions, and very even in the finals.

2015 saw Oakland win 4-2, with two overtime games to start the series, then on Kylie Irving or Kevin Love the last five games, but a very competitive set of games nonetheless.

2016 saw a Cleveland win 4-3, winning a very close game seven on the road. Indeed, starter Draymond Green missed a game (although GST lost three games that he played in), and most of the individual games were fairly lopsided before game seven, save one, a GST 4th quarter win in game four.

Then, Kevin Durant, by nearly any definition, went to play for Golden State and that seems to have shifted two very even teams to one having an advantage. Cleveland did not add anything close to a Kevin Durant.

This is not complicated.

Had Durant signed with Cleveland, and Cleveland kept Love, Irving and James, they would have become better than GST.

Cleveland is excellent, but with Durant, GST is more excellent. And Kyle Korver missed that open three. Then Durant hit his.

Long terms, no issues with two dominant teams, but, if this summer's top free agent, who will not be As strong as Durant but will be real good nonetheless, goes to Cleveland, that does not bode well...in my opinion.

Shaq left Orlando for LA, making LA a title contender.
Barkley left Philly for Phoenix, making Phoenix a contender.
James left Cleveland for Miami, making them a contender.
Durant went, not to a champion but certainly to a contender.

Of course it mattered...but feels different. Should they get this last game, and I give them about a 99.5% chance to win one more game, he clearly made a solid decision by turning a title contender into a title winning club.

GS probably would have won the championship this year without Durant. He made a clown move that gets 0 respect from me

I absolutely do not get this train of thought. Players go to winning teams when given the opportunity.

He left his team and joined a team that he couldnt beat. He could have went to any winning team in the league. Why did he go to a 73 win team that he just lost to a few months prior? It was pathetic and all of his rings will have a *

Kevin Durant basically will kill the NBA himself. No need to watch the NBA regular season if you know GS and the Cavs will go to the championship every year. I change my prediction to GS in 7. The league wants a game 7.

I have mixed feelings about the creation of Superteams (in effect , a duopoly) because I enjoy watching excellence on the court but I fret about the impact on the Griz.

There is a sense of predestination in the NBA right now not present in the same degree in other major pro sports, IMO. I do not think it is a heathy environment for the Griz to prosper.

(06-12-2017 07:27 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I have mixed feelings about the creation of Superteams (in effect , a duopoly) because I enjoy watching excellence on the court but I fret about the impact on the Griz.

There is a sense of predestination in the NBA right now not present in the same degree in other major pro sports, IMO. I do not think it is a heathy environment for the Griz to prosper.

same goes for the 27 other teams not named Cleveland and GS

(06-12-2017 07:27 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I have mixed feelings about the creation of Superteams (in effect , a duopoly) because I enjoy watching excellence on the court but I fret about the impact on the Griz.

There is a sense of predestination in the NBA right now not present in the same degree in other major pro sports, IMO. I do not think it is a heathy environment for the Griz to prosper.

It could have been prosperous if the Grizz could draft worth a flip. GS drafted their core 3 (Curry, Klay Thompson and Green) before adding KD as a free agent. We could have landed Curry or Harden in 2009, but instead we chose Thabeet.

(06-12-2017 08:21 AM)k2tigers Wrote:  

(06-12-2017 07:27 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I have mixed feelings about the creation of Superteams (in effect , a duopoly) because I enjoy watching excellence on the court but I fret about the impact on the Griz.

There is a sense of predestination in the NBA right now not present in the same degree in other major pro sports, IMO. I do not think it is a heathy environment for the Griz to prosper.

same goes for the 27 other teams not named Cleveland and GS

Agree. It is my understanding ratings are up and attendance strong so the ramifications - if any - maybe delayed. Dynasties are not new in the NBA, but free agency appears to alter the dynamics of building a dynasty.

(06-12-2017 08:31 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(06-12-2017 07:27 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I have mixed feelings about the creation of Superteams (in effect , a duopoly) because I enjoy watching excellence on the court but I fret about the impact on the Griz.

There is a sense of predestination in the NBA right now not present in the same degree in other major pro sports, IMO. I do not think it is a heathy environment for the Griz to prosper.

It could have been prosperous if the Grizz could draft worth a flip. GS drafted their core 3 (Curry, Klay Thompson and Green) before adding KD as a free agent. We could have landed Curry or Harden in 2009, but instead we chose Thabeet.

The Thaneet pick was a disaster with long term consequences. However, I am unsure if a small market like Memphis can attract the elite free agents to compliment wise and fruitful draft choices and trades.

Wasn't that long ago that Golden State was considered a joke franchise. Bad owner, bad management, played in an old arena in Oakland.

Then they drafted Steph with the 7th pick, Klay 11th and Draymond 35th. All 3 become top 20 players in the league. They run an offense that players like, and now GS is a place players want to go. Durant gave 9 years to the team that drafted him, and last summer made the totally reasonable choice to join the Warriors.

I don't root for the Dubs, but can appreciate their greatness. Don't get all the angst because they are about to win their 2nd title in 3 years.

(06-12-2017 09:22 AM)Tigx Wrote:  Wasn't that long ago that Golden State was considered a joke franchise. Bad owner, bad management, played in an old arena in Oakland.

Then they drafted Steph with the 7th pick, Klay 11th and Draymond 35th. All 3 become top 20 players in the league. They run an offense that players like, and now GS is a place players want to go. Durant gave 9 years to the team that drafted him, and last summer made the totally reasonable choice to join the Warriors.

I don't root for the Dubs, but can appreciate their greatness. Don't get all the angst because they are about to win their 2nd title in 3 years.

I think part of it is because the media has puffed them up so much (favored by Vegas to beat the 96 Bulls). Don't get me wrong, they are very good and probably deserve to be in the discussion of the best teams ever. I just think some people are resistant to that kind of conversation b/c they feel like the NBA as a whole was better in the past. The Bulls and other teams in that era actually played defense.

It's also interesting to listen to the accolades for Durant. He is a great player (he'll probably be the Finals MVP), but GS is a championship caliber team w/out him. Even without him they are awesome. The Cavs would fall off the map if LBJ left.

I actually do appreciate their ability to shoot the ball. They're fun to watch. The best team ever? That's hard for me to say given the watered down state of the league.

(06-12-2017 10:15 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(06-12-2017 09:22 AM)Tigx Wrote:  Wasn't that long ago that Golden State was considered a joke franchise. Bad owner, bad management, played in an old arena in Oakland.

Then they drafted Steph with the 7th pick, Klay 11th and Draymond 35th. All 3 become top 20 players in the league. They run an offense that players like, and now GS is a place players want to go.

I don't root for the Dubs, but can appreciate their greatness. Don't get all the angst because they are about to win their 2nd title in 3 years.

I just think some people are resistant to that kind of conversation b/c they feel like the NBA as a whole was better in the past. The Bulls and other teams in that era actually played defense.

I actually do appreciate their ability to shoot the ball. They're fun to watch. The best team ever?

Agreed, except for the comment about defense. Warriors are a great defensive team. Draymond and Klay might be best defenders at their position in the league. KD and Iguodala are also excellent. But I wasn't referring to the greatest team ever narrative.

In this thread, people saying Durant will kill the NBA, and woe to the NBA because the regular season is irrelevant. NBA has always been the most popular when there were mini-dynasties.

(06-12-2017 10:27 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(06-12-2017 10:15 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(06-12-2017 09:22 AM)Tigx Wrote:  Wasn't that long ago that Golden State was considered a joke franchise. Bad owner, bad management, played in an old arena in Oakland.

Then they drafted Steph with the 7th pick, Klay 11th and Draymond 35th. All 3 become top 20 players in the league. They run an offense that players like, and now GS is a place players want to go.

I don't root for the Dubs, but can appreciate their greatness. Don't get all the angst because they are about to win their 2nd title in 3 years.

I just think some people are resistant to that kind of conversation b/c they feel like the NBA as a whole was better in the past. The Bulls and other teams in that era actually played defense.

I actually do appreciate their ability to shoot the ball. They're fun to watch. The best team ever?

Agreed, except for the comment about defense. Warriors are a great defensive team. Draymond and Klay might be best defenders at their position in the league. KD and Iguodala are also excellent. But I wasn't referring to the greatest team ever narrative.

In this thread, people saying Durant will kill the NBA, and woe to the NBA because the regular season is irrelevant. NBA has always been the most popular when there were mini-dynasties.

The Warriors are better at every position except the 2 guard.

Now who wins the series will be defined by what era rules you follow...If you have the illegal defense that Jordan played with that allowed posting up to be so easy than the bulls may win but with Todays Illegal defense Jordan would not be able to sit in the post like he did, not with a poor shooting Pippen, Rodman and Longley on the court.