(05-31-2017 03:08 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:35 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:01 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:42 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Apparently schools are having a harder time finding air charters.
https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/201...rs-the-bus

ECU, while still in C-USA, was one of the proponents for the 14-team expansion to create bus trip opportunities in the East (Charlotte and Old Dominion) and West.

The side story here is the AAC has similar travel cost problems to C-USA and the Sunbelt, but that problem is alleviated by the television contract revenues, historic basketball credits, and AAC warchest. It is not a surprise those issues first surface at ECU.

While this affects costs--it's really more about availability. Sounds like the charters just aren't going to be as available. A flight from Houston to Florida is just a few hours. A bus ride requires 17-20 hours---likely requiring a layover with hotel and meal costs. Player time, loss of class time, loss of practice time, and competitive on the field issues are all concerns when athletes have 2 days of grueling bus travel each way for long distant games. Those trips won't help recruiting once the word begins to filter down to current HS players.

Scarcity will impact cost.

Right now to be the best of my knowledge, around 400 to 450 miles is generally about as far as most teams will bus because that's about the limit of convenience. The hassle of loading a team to get to the airport, unloading, boarding, unloading eats up about as much time as just riding a bus the entire way.

Longer than that there won't be a lot of happiness about taking the bus.

One problem is the P5 schools fly everywhere as referenced in the article. Maybe there should be a minimum distance instituted just to make sure teams have a charter available when they truly need it. I know that is one of the perks the big boys like to use, but nobody should be forced into 10+ hour bus trips because some teams don't want to bus for a couple of hours.

On the flip-side, I know App uses some smaller companies that only do charter flights so maybe they can work to pickup the slack of the national carriers? It could be a good opportunity for them.

When I was in college ULM used to fly the 300 miles to Jonesboro but they came on two turboprops. I know this because I used to work at a place that had a great view down on the airport.

Being open to smaller craft, especially for the tweener flights of 300 to 500/600 miles would take some stress off the charter system.

(05-31-2017 03:16 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 03:08 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:35 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:01 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  ECU, while still in C-USA, was one of the proponents for the 14-team expansion to create bus trip opportunities in the East (Charlotte and Old Dominion) and West.

The side story here is the AAC has similar travel cost problems to C-USA and the Sunbelt, but that problem is alleviated by the television contract revenues, historic basketball credits, and AAC warchest. It is not a surprise those issues first surface at ECU.

While this affects costs--it's really more about availability. Sounds like the charters just aren't going to be as available. A flight from Houston to Florida is just a few hours. A bus ride requires 17-20 hours---likely requiring a layover with hotel and meal costs. Player time, loss of class time, loss of practice time, and competitive on the field issues are all concerns when athletes have 2 days of grueling bus travel each way for long distant games. Those trips won't help recruiting once the word begins to filter down to current HS players.

Scarcity will impact cost.

Right now to be the best of my knowledge, around 400 to 450 miles is generally about as far as most teams will bus because that's about the limit of convenience. The hassle of loading a team to get to the airport, unloading, boarding, unloading eats up about as much time as just riding a bus the entire way.

Longer than that there won't be a lot of happiness about taking the bus.

One problem is the P5 schools fly everywhere as referenced in the article. Maybe there should be a minimum distance instituted just to make sure teams have a charter available when they truly need it. I know that is one of the perks the big boys like to use, but nobody should be forced into 10+ hour bus trips because some teams don't want to bus for a couple of hours.

On the flip-side, I know App uses some smaller companies that only do charter flights so maybe they can work to pickup the slack of the national carriers? It could be a good opportunity for them.

When I was in college ULM used to fly the 300 miles to Jonesboro but they came on two turboprops. I know this because I used to work at a place that had a great view down on the airport.

Being open to smaller craft, especially for the tweener flights of 300 to 500/600 miles would take some stress off the charter system.

That might be where it heads---booking multiple smaller aircraft. I imagine that kind of commuter aircraft would require refueling for the longer flights (say Georgia to Texas or Texas to the NE for instance).

(05-31-2017 03:28 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 03:16 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 03:08 PM)JTApps1 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:35 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  While this affects costs--it's really more about availability. Sounds like the charters just aren't going to be as available. A flight from Houston to Florida is just a few hours. A bus ride requires 17-20 hours---likely requiring a layover with hotel and meal costs. Player time, loss of class time, loss of practice time, and competitive on the field issues are all concerns when athletes have 2 days of grueling bus travel each way for long distant games. Those trips won't help recruiting once the word begins to filter down to current HS players.

Scarcity will impact cost.

Right now to be the best of my knowledge, around 400 to 450 miles is generally about as far as most teams will bus because that's about the limit of convenience. The hassle of loading a team to get to the airport, unloading, boarding, unloading eats up about as much time as just riding a bus the entire way.

Longer than that there won't be a lot of happiness about taking the bus.

One problem is the P5 schools fly everywhere as referenced in the article. Maybe there should be a minimum distance instituted just to make sure teams have a charter available when they truly need it. I know that is one of the perks the big boys like to use, but nobody should be forced into 10+ hour bus trips because some teams don't want to bus for a couple of hours.

On the flip-side, I know App uses some smaller companies that only do charter flights so maybe they can work to pickup the slack of the national carriers? It could be a good opportunity for them.

When I was in college ULM used to fly the 300 miles to Jonesboro but they came on two turboprops. I know this because I used to work at a place that had a great view down on the airport.

Being open to smaller craft, especially for the tweener flights of 300 to 500/600 miles would take some stress off the charter system.

That might be where it heads---booking multiple smaller aircraft. I imagine that kind of commuter aircraft would require refueling for the longer flights (say Georgia to Texas or Texas to the NE for instance).

The turboprops are pretty fuel efficient, their operating altitude can be problematic. Glo Airlines uses Saab Turboprops lot of room, pretty quiet but flew to NOLA after a thunderstorm passed through and about beat me to death, return flight was glass.

(05-31-2017 10:09 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:59 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  Why would the MAC have to realign if the goal is to make things more of a bus league? The MAC is already a bus league almost exclusively.

Northern Illinois, Ball State and Buffalo are more outliers because the schools are mainly in Ohio and Michigan. Those three have to travel the furthest without much support from other schools from their state.

Create more travel partners.

Northern Illinois and Illinois State
Ball State and Indiana State
Buffalo and Stony Brook

I could see Eastern Michigan move down because of the lack of fan support.

Why do you comment about the MAC, when you have no idea about any of the schools that play there??? Just asking for a friend.

(05-31-2017 12:55 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 11:27 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  That could mean some splits that could create new conferences with D2 call ups to fill in spots. The politics of the money issues that politics can't block schools like Nebraska-Omaha, Minn.-Duluth, Mankato State to drop football, nor any blockage from P5 schools from not allowing schools like Metro State in Denver from adding the sport. That is why some conference leaders are saying that basketball and all sports could be split in two levels at D1. This could bring up some schools grandfather in for all sports at D1 who already have a sport or 2. Maybe they could classified schools that were D1 at one time to be D1 like West Texas A&M, MIT, Case Western Reserves, Wayne State and so forth. West Texas A&M, Angelo State, Colorado State-Pueblo and UTPB could be helpful to schools like Texas Tech, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Colorado, Air Force, Colorado State, Denver and so forth to have bus trips for all the different sports. Those D1 schools in New Mexico and west Texas are out there in the boonies.

Not another thread turning into a D2 call-up. More schools mean a smaller piece of the pie. Omaha is already facing cuts in athletics after just two years because they are not getting the revenues they thought they would get.

http://www.omaha.com/news/education/uno-...b7d02.html

That has as much to do with the leadership being stupid and arrogant as anything. They build a new stadium, offer concession options that suck compared to the entertainment district literally across the street from their new stadium, and have to offer free parking since the entertainment district has a bunch of parking garages for nearby office buildings that sit unused on game nights. Rather than fans going to the stadium, paying parking, getting a hot dog and Bud Light like most stadiums work, they get free parking, craft beer, and pizza, burgers, or tacos for about the same price as concession food.

Couple that with the hockey team having a late season death spiral two years ago that they haven't recovered from and basketball being a roller coaster ride of big wins and awful losses, and you have where we are now.

(05-31-2017 09:42 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:55 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 11:27 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  That could mean some splits that could create new conferences with D2 call ups to fill in spots. The politics of the money issues that politics can't block schools like Nebraska-Omaha, Minn.-Duluth, Mankato State to drop football, nor any blockage from P5 schools from not allowing schools like Metro State in Denver from adding the sport. That is why some conference leaders are saying that basketball and all sports could be split in two levels at D1. This could bring up some schools grandfather in for all sports at D1 who already have a sport or 2. Maybe they could classified schools that were D1 at one time to be D1 like West Texas A&M, MIT, Case Western Reserves, Wayne State and so forth. West Texas A&M, Angelo State, Colorado State-Pueblo and UTPB could be helpful to schools like Texas Tech, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Colorado, Air Force, Colorado State, Denver and so forth to have bus trips for all the different sports. Those D1 schools in New Mexico and west Texas are out there in the boonies.

Not another thread turning into a D2 call-up. More schools mean a smaller piece of the pie. Omaha is already facing cuts in athletics after just two years because they are not getting the revenues they thought they would get.

http://www.omaha.com/news/education/uno-...b7d02.html

That has as much to do with the leadership being stupid and arrogant as anything. They build a new stadium, offer concession options that suck compared to the entertainment district literally across the street from their new stadium, and have to offer free parking since the entertainment district has a bunch of parking garages for nearby office buildings that sit unused on game nights. Rather than fans going to the stadium, paying parking, getting a hot dog and Bud Light like most stadiums work, they get free parking, craft beer, and pizza, burgers, or tacos for about the same price as concession food.

Couple that with the hockey team having a late season death spiral two years ago that they haven't recovered from and basketball being a roller coaster ride of big wins and awful losses, and you have where we are now.

As an outsider, I see Trev as a Lincoln puppet. I would never trust him. How things happened there was just plain cruel and there's no excuse. Hope you can turn things around and become successful in spite of him.

Yeah, Trev Alberts did UNO football and wrestling, ESPECIALLY wrestling, a great wrong.

(05-31-2017 06:39 PM)utpotts Wrote:  Why do you comment about the MAC, when you have no idea about any of the schools that play there??? Just asking for a friend.

To be fair, he has no idea about a large number of the schools that he discusses. It's not just a MAC thing.

(05-31-2017 10:35 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:15 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 10:01 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:42 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Apparently schools are having a harder time finding air charters.
https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/201...rs-the-bus

ECU, while still in C-USA, was one of the proponents for the 14-team expansion to create bus trip opportunities in the East (Charlotte and Old Dominion) and West.

The side story here is the AAC has similar travel cost problems to C-USA and the Sunbelt, but that problem is alleviated by the television contract revenues, historic basketball credits, and AAC warchest. It is not a surprise those issues first surface at ECU.

While this affects costs--it's really more about availability. Sounds like the charters just aren't going to be as available. A flight from Houston to Florida is just a few hours. A bus ride requires 17-20 hours---likely requiring a layover with hotel and meal costs. Player time, loss of class time, loss of practice time, and competitive on the field issues are all concerns when athletes have 2 days of grueling bus travel each way for long distant games. Those trips won't help recruiting once the word begins to filter down to current HS players.

Scarcity will impact cost.

Right now to be the best of my knowledge, around 400 to 450 miles is generally about as far as most teams will bus because that's about the limit of convenience. The hassle of loading a team to get to the airport, unloading, boarding, unloading eats up about as much time as just riding a bus the entire way.

Longer than that there won't be a lot of happiness about taking the bus.

Depends on the sport and what Bus they had. Butler would bus 5.5 to Pittsburg but the Butler bus was no Greyhound. Each seat had a TV connected to cable, super comfortable reclining chairs and tables for kids to do homework. For teams like volleyball playing a Friday Sunday such a model was fine. (Also shows the problem of BYU's Sunday play). But if basketball due to TV has to play Wednesday then you have to charter.

I would guess reducing travel costs played a role in Wichita State joining. The MWC would have been smart to grab them but Thompson is the worst commissioner in sports.

University of Nebraska system has a hard rule that no involuntary fees may be imposed to support athletics. There will not be institutional transfers or a student fee hike without a vote.

The reality that below P5 every D1 school runs a deficit is coming home painfully to UNO. It would come home to almost every FCS and G5 school if their systems had a similar rule like UN does.

Amazing that the myth of big profits in D1 still exists.

(05-31-2017 11:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  University of Nebraska system has a hard rule that no involuntary fees may be imposed to support athletics. There will not be institutional transfers or a student fee hike without a vote.

The reality that below P5 every D1 school runs a deficit is coming home painfully to UNO. It would come home to almost every FCS and G5 school if their systems had a similar rule like UN does.

Amazing that the myth of big profits in D1 still exists.

In the long run, it could hurt Nebraska-Lincoln as well.

The "S.E.A. The South Eastern Atlantic

"Charlotte (Final 4), Appalachian (3x nation football champion), Liberty (TV), ODU, JMU, Coastal Carolina (CWS champion), Georgia St., Georgia Southern (6x national football champions), FAU, FIU, (Basketball: UNC-Wilmington, College of Charleston).

Who cares about the central, mountain & pacific time zones.

The S.E.A. has champions, the coast, the metros, the mountains, and fertile recruiting. And the opportunity to create some rivalries


For Charlotte The "S.E.A." would eliminate five teams that are further away than the two Florida twins. For Charlotte those five far west teams would be replaced by five teams that the combined travel would equal one trip to UTEP.

If the TV money was still there I would love the CUSA as it is. If the TV exposurer was there I would love the CUSA as it is. The Golden Goose (TV) revenue is dead.

We'll take them in our conference.

(05-31-2017 11:02 AM)NoDak Wrote:  For FCS and below, it's possible to fly commercial. Know Cal Poly flew commercial for a game at UND, by busing from Minneapolis. The equipment was trucked up earlier, so it was ready for the team.

Boise State's football team has flown commercial. I have run into the Broncos a few times at O"Haire in Chicago.

(05-31-2017 10:09 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:59 AM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  Why would the MAC have to realign if the goal is to make things more of a bus league? The MAC is already a bus league almost exclusively.

Northern Illinois, Ball State and Buffalo are more outliers because the schools are mainly in Ohio and Michigan. Those three have to travel the furthest without much support from other schools from their state.

Create more travel partners.

Northern Illinois and Illinois State
Ball State and Indiana State
Buffalo and Stony Brook

I could see Eastern Michigan move down because of the lack of fan support.

You're throwing manure here. Buffalo and Stony Brook are on opposite sides of the state. You have to drive through NYC, make a minimum three major river crossings to get from one to the other. You are talking about an 8 hour drive using the fastest rout, which actually goes through NJ and Pa.

(05-31-2017 11:10 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 09:42 PM)Mav Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 12:55 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 11:27 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  That could mean some splits that could create new conferences with D2 call ups to fill in spots. The politics of the money issues that politics can't block schools like Nebraska-Omaha, Minn.-Duluth, Mankato State to drop football, nor any blockage from P5 schools from not allowing schools like Metro State in Denver from adding the sport. That is why some conference leaders are saying that basketball and all sports could be split in two levels at D1. This could bring up some schools grandfather in for all sports at D1 who already have a sport or 2. Maybe they could classified schools that were D1 at one time to be D1 like West Texas A&M, MIT, Case Western Reserves, Wayne State and so forth. West Texas A&M, Angelo State, Colorado State-Pueblo and UTPB could be helpful to schools like Texas Tech, UTEP, New Mexico, New Mexico State, Colorado, Air Force, Colorado State, Denver and so forth to have bus trips for all the different sports. Those D1 schools in New Mexico and west Texas are out there in the boonies.

Not another thread turning into a D2 call-up. More schools mean a smaller piece of the pie. Omaha is already facing cuts in athletics after just two years because they are not getting the revenues they thought they would get.

http://www.omaha.com/news/education/uno-...b7d02.html

That has as much to do with the leadership being stupid and arrogant as anything. They build a new stadium, offer concession options that suck compared to the entertainment district literally across the street from their new stadium, and have to offer free parking since the entertainment district has a bunch of parking garages for nearby office buildings that sit unused on game nights. Rather than fans going to the stadium, paying parking, getting a hot dog and Bud Light like most stadiums work, they get free parking, craft beer, and pizza, burgers, or tacos for about the same price as concession food.

Couple that with the hockey team having a late season death spiral two years ago that they haven't recovered from and basketball being a roller coaster ride of big wins and awful losses, and you have where we are now.

As an outsider, I see Trev as a Lincoln puppet. I would never trust him. How things happened there was just plain cruel and there's no excuse. Hope you can turn things around and become successful in spite of him.

Sometimes I wonder. I know the wrestling thing was a leak within the department to the World Herald, and the newspaper basically asking Trev for comment and saying they'll run the story the day after the championship either way. He was not put in a good position in that regard.

One thing that I thought was funny is that as soon as the chancellor announced his retirement, Dean Blais said he was unsure of the school's future commitment to athletics. This included Trev, apparently. I hope things get turned around, too, but it'll take a while. The school itself is long on ambition, it's more them being routinely undercut by the pro-Lincoln Board of Regents, the Huskerhead legislature, and having the local rag throw gas on the fire whenever the program struggles. One thing to consider about the World Herald is that one of their hack writers, Sam McKeown, went on a radio show and advocated dissolving Omaha's athletic program, and used the volleyball program's attendance of all things as a reason. The attitude among a lot of the media and leaders here is that Omaha has to basically be a carbon copy on Lincoln, financially and all, or just go down to D2 or dissolve. It's unfair, and honestly, completely divorced from the reality of college athletics.

(06-01-2017 12:35 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  In the long run, it could hurt Nebraska-Lincoln as well.

If they keep getting spanked by their rivals and blowing games to the likes of Illinois and Purdue, it'll be a little sooner than that.

(05-31-2017 11:41 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Well if its availability that is the issue, the one thing to figure out is if this is going to be a temporary issue. If it's not then this really impacts schools with football teams than those with no football. Flying commercial for football is possible but they would require months and months of planning to schedule a flight or 2 to carry the whole team or in 2 groups.
Flying commercial for the other sports isn't as bad since with proper planning you can get seats for 15 - 25 players depending on the sport.

If buses is the way they want to go then yes...there could be some realignment coming soon especially as the TV revenues are dropping or not going to increase.

By the way, I remember busing around in college for track meets and the longest one we had was 14 hours and we didn't get a bus but a van instead. Ahhh...good memories.

I remember seeing what looked like the Houston volleyball team on a Southwest flight one time.

(06-02-2017 02:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 11:41 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Well if its availability that is the issue, the one thing to figure out is if this is going to be a temporary issue. If it's not then this really impacts schools with football teams than those with no football. Flying commercial for football is possible but they would require months and months of planning to schedule a flight or 2 to carry the whole team or in 2 groups.
Flying commercial for the other sports isn't as bad since with proper planning you can get seats for 15 - 25 players depending on the sport.

If buses is the way they want to go then yes...there could be some realignment coming soon especially as the TV revenues are dropping or not going to increase.

By the way, I remember busing around in college for track meets and the longest one we had was 14 hours and we didn't get a bus but a van instead. Ahhh...good memories.

I remember seeing what looked like the Houston volleyball team on a Southwest flight one time.

Many of the non-revs fly commercial. I have flown with ASU's Track and Field Teams to Austin, Volleyball team to Seattle (both on Southwest) and been in the airport another time with the Track team.

I've flown with Louisville's golf teams on Delta.

It wasn't that long ago, before NBA teams would have their own plane, but fly commercial and see them frequently. MLS teams still do ASFIK. Saw the MAC teams in SLC going to Fresno for the Raisin Bowl many times. Or it seemed everytime I was in the Atlanta airport during basketball season, I would see Pat Summit and her Vols team. Thought for sure they would charter.

(06-02-2017 03:37 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(06-02-2017 02:59 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(05-31-2017 11:41 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Well if its availability that is the issue, the one thing to figure out is if this is going to be a temporary issue. If it's not then this really impacts schools with football teams than those with no football. Flying commercial for football is possible but they would require months and months of planning to schedule a flight or 2 to carry the whole team or in 2 groups.
Flying commercial for the other sports isn't as bad since with proper planning you can get seats for 15 - 25 players depending on the sport.

If buses is the way they want to go then yes...there could be some realignment coming soon especially as the TV revenues are dropping or not going to increase.

By the way, I remember busing around in college for track meets and the longest one we had was 14 hours and we didn't get a bus but a van instead. Ahhh...good memories.

I remember seeing what looked like the Houston volleyball team on a Southwest flight one time.

Many of the non-revs fly commercial. I have flown with ASU's Track and Field Teams to Austin, Volleyball team to Seattle (both on Southwest) and been in the airport another time with the Track team.

Unscientific observation: I've traveled a lot for work, and I've lost track of all of the teams I've seen in airports, especially hubs. Off the top of my head, I remember seeing the Louisville and Iowa State softball teams in the Houston airport, and the Iowa softball team in O'Hare, just to name a few. P5 schools aren't afraid to fly commercial for non-revenue sports. They prefer to charter for football and men's (and maybe women's) basketball. (not sure about the women's part..probably a Title IX issue if they don't travel as the men do)

In the Big 12, non-revenue sports fly commercial to West Virginia (that's a long bus ride from Big 12 country). This year, OU traveled there for baseball, and the Sunday game had a 3:00 pm curfew because the OU team had to get back to Pittsburgh to catch a flight. They scored in the top of the 10th to win. Had the game been tied after 10 innings, it would have been stopped. This may be standard operating procedure when B12 teams play at WVU...I'm not sure.

I also remember flying commercial with the Central Michigan baseball team, and waited with them in baggage claim in the Detroit airport. They had just returned from a Texas trip, and were busing to Mount Pleasant from DTW.

To the comment above regarding FCS football: I happened to the see the Portland State football team once in baggage claim at IAH. They flew in from Portland and bused over to Lake Charles to play McNeese State. Definitely not big-time.

But, FWIW, on a February road trip, we pulled out of Buc-ee's (Texas mega-convenience store/pit stop) on I-45, and saw the SMU men's basketball team getting off of a bus. They didn't fly to Houston to play UH, but chartered a bus. With Big 12/P5 money, that is perhaps a flight. In the AAC, it's a bus ride. Things are different outside the P5.

Just some oddball and not-so-oddball examples. P5 football and basketball teams will continue to charter if they can pull it off. If money runs low, or if the supply of planes runs low, they'll have to explore other options.