(05-29-2017 07:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Does a 80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness,

Here is a question in response... does the depth of that reputation extend to those players who played regularly?

Can you direct me to newspaper interviews that substantiate that reputation?

I do not know players at this level of play who found coaches to be less than abrasive. Augie Garrido never seemed like a wallflower.

(05-29-2017 09:58 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 07:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Does a 80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness,

Here is a question in response... does the depth of that reputation extend to those players who played regularly?

Can you direct me to newspaper interviews that substantiate that reputation?

I do not know players at this level of play who found coaches to be less than abrasive. Augie Garrido never seemed like a wallflower.

Tanqtonic has an agenda....an "80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness" would not be able to continue to sign the sons of players that have played for Wayne if age or abrasiveness was an issue....Heisenberg at work...

We know who you are Tanqtonic

And I'm in the anger phase of grief.....bring it

POISON

ExcitedOwl18, AggieOwl01 and Tanqtonic: You should do like me and dozens of others: Bail out on threads like this until after the season is over. Let's enjoy what's happened over the last few weeks and discuss what to do with the program after the final game is played. I agree with much of what you are saying, as does just about everybody I sit with at games. You're not going to change the minds of those arguing against you on this thread. Like the rest of us, just kick back and enjoy whatever amount of baseball is left this season.

I do see one path-forward to this Coaching debate that would probably make everyone happy - and it is something Walt has been pushing for: Make an announcement after this season that Wayne will coach one more year, fulfilling his contract, then retiring. If that were to happen, I think everybody on this board would be happy with the decision, and would push for next season to be one spent honoring Wayne for all he's done for Rice. I hope that is what happens.

(05-29-2017 10:18 PM)Minnewaska Owl Wrote:  ExcitedOwl18, AggieOwl01 and Tanqtonic: You should do like me and dozens of others: Bail out on threads like this until after the season is over. Let's enjoy what's happened over the last few weeks and discuss what to do with the program after the final game is played. I agree with much of what you are saying, as does just about everybody I sit with at games. You're not going to change the minds of those arguing against you on this thread. Like the rest of us, just kick back and enjoy whatever amount of baseball is left this season.

I do see one path-forward to this Coaching debate that would probably make everyone happy - and it is something Walt has been pushing for: Make an announcement after this season that Wayne will coach one more year, fulfilling his contract, then retiring. If that were to happen, I think everybody on this board would be happy with the decision, and would push for next season to be one spent honoring Wayne for all he's done for Rice. I hope that is what happens.

Be careful what you wish for....

(05-29-2017 09:58 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 07:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Does a 80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness,

Here is a question in response... does the depth of that reputation extend to those players who played regularly?

In all honesty, I will say that I have no first-hand experience with Graham, nor have I asked that question of anyone whom has played regularly for him. I was not in Rice at anytime during the Graham era.

But, I am basing the comment on other conversations with other coaches (at other universities) whom I have had the pleasure to make their acquaintance. And to that, you would definitely have to add the issue of a bias on their part.

Point taken.

But, with the odd number of people associated with NCAA baseball that I have talked to, the comments seem uniformly in the same vein. Thus my characterization as "deep", due to the lack of variance.

Quote:I do not know players at this level of play who found coaches to be less than abrasive. Augie Garrido never seemed like a wallflower.

No coach worth their salt is a "wallflower". But, as Augie for an example, there seems to be, from my admittedly limited perspective and talking with those who know and have played for him, that in addition to the abrasive nature, there is also a very present vein that talk away from that necessary component in his case.

(05-29-2017 10:11 PM)skycatcher Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 09:58 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 07:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Does a 80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness,

Here is a question in response... does the depth of that reputation extend to those players who played regularly?

Can you direct me to newspaper interviews that substantiate that reputation?

I do not know players at this level of play who found coaches to be less than abrasive. Augie Garrido never seemed like a wallflower.

Tanqtonic has an agenda....an "80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness" would not be able to continue to sign the sons of players that have played for Wayne if age or abrasiveness was an issue....Heisenberg at work...

We know who you are Tanqtonic

Showing off your astuteness I see. /sarcasm off

No agenda -- I do have an opinion -- live with it sparky

(05-29-2017 10:37 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:11 PM)skycatcher Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 09:58 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 07:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Does a 80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness,

Here is a question in response... does the depth of that reputation extend to those players who played regularly?

Can you direct me to newspaper interviews that substantiate that reputation?

I do not know players at this level of play who found coaches to be less than abrasive. Augie Garrido never seemed like a wallflower.

Tanqtonic has an agenda....an "80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness" would not be able to continue to sign the sons of players that have played for Wayne if age or abrasiveness was an issue....Heisenberg at work...

We know who you are Tanqtonic

Showing off your astuteness I see. /sarcasm off

No agenda -- I do have an opinion -- live with it sparky

we all have opinions....it's my rebukes that seem to disturb you

not sparky, poison

(05-29-2017 10:18 PM)Minnewaska Owl Wrote:  ExcitedOwl18, AggieOwl01 and Tanqtonic: You should do like me and dozens of others: Bail out on threads like this until after the season is over. Let's enjoy what's happened over the last few weeks and discuss what to do with the program after the final game is played. I agree with much of what you are saying, as does just about everybody I sit with at games. You're not going to change the minds of those arguing against you on this thread. Like the rest of us, just kick back and enjoy whatever amount of baseball is left this season.

I do see one path-forward to this Coaching debate that would probably make everyone happy - and it is something Walt has been pushing for: Make an announcement after this season that Wayne will coach one more year, fulfilling his contract, then retiring. If that were to happen, I think everybody on this board would be happy with the decision, and would push for next season to be one spent honoring Wayne for all he's done for Rice. I hope that is what happens.

Yep. Limited posts here and I am already being called a minion by some acerbic dude. Love how having an opinion brings out the acid in some.

(05-29-2017 10:41 PM)skycatcher Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:37 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:11 PM)skycatcher Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 09:58 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 07:11 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Does a 80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness,

Here is a question in response... does the depth of that reputation extend to those players who played regularly?

Can you direct me to newspaper interviews that substantiate that reputation?

I do not know players at this level of play who found coaches to be less than abrasive. Augie Garrido never seemed like a wallflower.

Tanqtonic has an agenda....an "80 some odd year old head coach, with a deep reputation for abrasiveness" would not be able to continue to sign the sons of players that have played for Wayne if age or abrasiveness was an issue....Heisenberg at work...

We know who you are Tanqtonic

Showing off your astuteness I see. /sarcasm off

No agenda -- I do have an opinion -- live with it sparky

we all have opinions....it's my rebukes that seem to disturb you

not sparky, poison

Its your reliance on ad homs with anyone who disagrees with you that's the issue sparky, not to mention the 'geometric logic' employed in determining that anyone who disagrees with your position is automatically someone who seems your personal bugaboo.

Skycatcher only likes to talk $%#@ when things are going well. She appeared this time last year too when we sniffed some success in BR.

(05-29-2017 10:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  No coach worth their salt is a "wallflower". But, as Augie for an example, there seems to be, from my admittedly limited perspective and talking with those who know and have played for him, that in addition to the abrasive nature, there is also a very present vein that talk away from that necessary component in his case.

It may be that time and a day's rest and some assistance could change things, but I can't make any sense of this response. I have to question whether the number of championships and the number of players summarily dismissed from Augies' programs may factor in to your subjective perspective?

(05-29-2017 11:54 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 10:36 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  No coach worth their salt is a "wallflower". But, as Augie for an example, there seems to be, from my admittedly limited perspective and talking with those who know and have played for him, that in addition to the abrasive nature, there is also a very present vein that talk away from that necessary component in his case.

It may be that time and a day's rest and some assistance could change things, but I can't make any sense of this response. I have to question whether the number of championships and the number of players summarily dismissed from Augies' programs may factor in to your subjective perspective?

My bad. Let me clarify.

First off, while I have talked to some who have interacted with Augie, by no means is that a huge number, and, of course, my viewpoint may be limited.

Second, Augie definitely has the spectre of being abrasive from those who I have talked with.

However, in distinction with that of those whom I have discussed OG, even those whom talk about Augie and his abrasiveness will almost always talk about an opposite-side of that nature as well.

I have no clue about the numbers nor scope of numbers of players summarily dismissed, either by OG (if any) or by Augie (if any). And, I really don't think that the numbers (or lack of numbers) of championships has anything to do with the subject of personality.

My only impressions of OG at that personal level are from those people whom I mentioned previously, as are my impressions of Augie (albeit the Augie number is far less than those for OG). And, as stated before, these are simply my impressions and opinions.

Sorry about the really bad strung on sentence.

(05-30-2017 12:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I have no clue about the numbers nor scope of numbers of players summarily dismissed, either by OG (if any) or by Augie (if any). And, I really don't think that the numbers (or lack of numbers) of championships has anything to do with the subject of personality.

My purpose in bringing that up is that - at least in my perception - there was a very clear pattern that players at UT under Augie who did not earn regular playing time did not get scholarships renewed. Rice doesn't generally do that to students - in baseball or other programs. Thus, those players would have more exposure to the program than at other schools, and are generally going to be less happy about their situation, and more liable to complain. What I'm suggesting is that your sample may be biased because of this. Likewise, players that win championships aren't liable to complain... given that both programs have a very high success rate, that may not be a factor, but it's worth considering, especially if your sample is from players in the mid-late 2000s versus some of the less successful teams that missed out on the postseason altogether. I imagine those players experiences were different.

(05-30-2017 05:25 AM)I45owl Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 12:31 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I have no clue about the numbers nor scope of numbers of players summarily dismissed, either by OG (if any) or by Augie (if any). And, I really don't think that the numbers (or lack of numbers) of championships has anything to do with the subject of personality.

My purpose in bringing that up is that - at least in my perception - there was a very clear pattern that players at UT under Augie who did not earn regular playing time did not get scholarships renewed. Rice doesn't generally do that to students - in baseball or other programs. Thus, those players would have more exposure to the program than at other schools, and are generally going to be less happy about their situation, and more liable to complain. What I'm suggesting is that your sample may be biased because of this. Likewise, players that win championships aren't liable to complain... given that both programs have a very high success rate, that may not be a factor, but it's worth considering, especially if your sample is from players in the mid-late 2000s versus some of the less successful teams that missed out on the postseason altogether. I imagine those players experiences were different.

Thanks for the thought points. But, I think I am going to shut my trap like Minn Owl suggested above until after this season's journey is over.

And, my apologies to the board for my going acerbic on another poster here. Someone has brought some information to my attention that makes my replies to that poster not all that reasonable.

Let's all hope to get another World Series for both the youngsters on the team and not necessarily youngsters who lead them. And let's have a reasonable discussion after that happens.

Trying to book stuff in Omaha as we speak. The surprise success in getting to the CUSA playoff, let alone winning it, threw my pre-planning out the window this year. I just hope I can use the room this year.

(05-30-2017 11:10 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Trying to book stuff in Omaha as we speak. The surprise success in getting to the CUSA playoff, let alone winning it, threw my pre-planning out the window this year. I just hope I can use the room this year.

Should be lots of rooms opening up after Rice eliminates LSU this weekend.

(05-30-2017 12:09 PM)mrbig Wrote:  

(05-30-2017 11:10 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Trying to book stuff in Omaha as we speak. The surprise success in getting to the CUSA playoff, let alone winning it, threw my pre-planning out the window this year. I just hope I can use the room this year.

Should be lots of rooms opening up after Rice eliminates LSU this weekend.

While snapping up rooms from others who won't be using them is always fun, it is especially rewarding to do so from T-Sips and Tigers for some some reason.

This shows what a good baseball conference a revived SWC could be. Every school that played baseball at the end received a bid to the NCAA. SMU gave up baseball around 1980 when they tore up their baseball field for a new track stadium. I admit that if we had the SWC put back together the teams would be beating each other so not every team could get a bid.

I have been a Rice baseball fan since 1972 so I remember the first 23 years where I would be happy if we had even received a bid. There were fewer NCAA berths back then which prevented a few good teams from going all the way. We finally got in the NCAAs by winning the last SWC baseball in 1995 so we won the last SWC game and the only time we were a SWC championship. The 23 years of bids since then have been good. I was unhappy with much of the sloppy play at the start of the season but the Rice team seems to have got past that. I think the 23 straight bids is quite an accomplishment.

(05-29-2017 06:29 PM)Eat More Vole Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 01:41 PM)AggieOwl01 Wrote:  But the program is not what it used to be. Rice used to be one of the top 2-3 programs in the state if not the top. Now, it is somewhere between 6-10.

Former SWC schools:

Texas Tech - natl seed
TCU - Natl seed
Arkansas - host
UH - Host
UT - 2 seed
Baylor - 2 seed
A&m - at large 3 seed
Rice - autobid only 3 seed

The program is pretty close to where it used to be, pre 96.

I agree. We have a manager who player for Casey Stengel and Gene Mauch which no one else can say. In fact, we are one of a very few college teams that has a manager with major league experience.

(05-29-2017 08:12 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-29-2017 01:10 AM)seniorowl Wrote:  When we were struggling during the middle of the season, I stated that we should never consider letting the OG go because of the NC he won for us in 2003. He should decide when he gets to retire. And I still stand by this.

That NC is the reason why Rice plays D1 athletics today. We need to be finding more Wayne Grahams instead of getting rid of the one we have. We need to have a succession plan for when that day comes, but we don't need to execute that plan just yet.

(05-29-2017 10:18 PM)Minnewaska Owl Wrote:  ExcitedOwl18, AggieOwl01 and Tanqtonic: You should do like me and dozens of others: Bail out on threads like this until after the season is over. Let's enjoy what's happened over the last few weeks and discuss what to do with the program after the final game is played. I agree with much of what you are saying, as does just about everybody I sit with at games. You're not going to change the minds of those arguing against you on this thread. Like the rest of us, just kick back and enjoy whatever amount of baseball is left this season.

I do see one path-forward to this Coaching debate that would probably make everyone happy - and it is something Walt has been pushing for: Make an announcement after this season that Wayne will coach one more year, fulfilling his contract, then retiring. If that were to happen, I think everybody on this board would be happy with the decision, and would push for next season to be one spent honoring Wayne for all he's done for Rice. I hope that is what happens.

Completely agree!