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Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #1
Exclamation Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
An idea that I haven't seen expressed on the board but can't the P5/G5 problem be solved by co-opting the G5? Afterall the G5 have a vested interest in the system at this point and if co-opted would vote in the same direction as the P5.

1) Give the G5 the same votes in the autonomy structure as the P5.

2) Create contract slots for the G5 in an expanded CFP structure with super large payouts (60-80 million). Grow the CFP bowls from 6 to 12 to accommodate.

Conference TV deals and overall revenue would still be titled heavily toward the B1G, ACC, PAC, SEC, B12 with no viable threat of the AAC, MAC, MWC, SBC, CUSA cutting into TV. If the AAC ever became that good their teams would surely be picked up by the B12.

Thoughts?
05-27-2017 09:36 AM
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Steve1981 Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
Thous that have the money make the rules.
05-27-2017 09:47 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
The networks would pay an additional $60-$80 million to include champions from the AAC, MWC, MAC, C-USA and Sun Belt in the CFP? The P5 would willingly include an additional five conferences inside their circle and allow their own influence and authority diminished?

Personally, I think there is a higher chance of Notre Dame joining the ACC full time, and that ain't happening anytime soon.

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05-27-2017 09:51 AM
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msm96wolf Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 09:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  An idea that I haven't seen expressed on the board but can't the P5/G5 problem be solved by co-opting the G5? Afterall the G5 have a vested interest in the system at this point and if co-opted would vote in the same direction as the P5.

1) Give the G5 the same votes in the autonomy structure as the P5.

2) Create contract slots for the G5 in an expanded CFP structure with super large payouts (60-80 million). Grow the CFP bowls from 6 to 12 to accommodate.

Conference TV deals and overall revenue would still be titled heavily toward the B1G, ACC, PAC, SEC, B12 with no viable threat of the AAC, MAC, MWC, SBC, CUSA cutting into TV. If the AAC ever became that good their teams would surely be picked up by the B12.

Thoughts?

03-lmfao
05-27-2017 09:51 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 09:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  An idea that I haven't seen expressed on the board but can't the P5/G5 problem be solved by co-opting the G5? Afterall the G5 have a vested interest in the system at this point and if co-opted would vote in the same direction as the P5.

1) Give the G5 the same votes in the autonomy structure as the P5.

2) Create contract slots for the G5 in an expanded CFP structure with super large payouts (60-80 million). Grow the CFP bowls from 6 to 12 to accommodate.

Conference TV deals and overall revenue would still be titled heavily toward the B1G, ACC, PAC, SEC, B12 with no viable threat of the AAC, MAC, MWC, SBC, CUSA cutting into TV. If the AAC ever became that good their teams would surely be picked up by the B12.

Thoughts?

Are you volunteering to kick in the additional money to make this happen? Because ESPN and the P5 sure aren't.
05-27-2017 09:56 AM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
Quote:1) Give the G5 the same votes in the autonomy structure as the P5.

I believe the G5 already has autonomy for G5 issues the same way the P5 has for P5 issues.

Quote:2) Create contract slots for the G5 in an expanded CFP structure with super large payouts (60-80 million). Grow the CFP bowls from 6 to 12 to accommodate.

The economics are not there. Sponsors are not going to pay $30 million for games that don't generate TV ratings. You could redistribute the G5 CFP money but I don't think that would go over well.
05-27-2017 10:17 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
Is P6 a gateway to P10?

1) If the AAC gets a contract bowl, it will probably require the addition of future bowl games. Houston Bowl could be a 7th game with an AAC contract tie-in and Las Vegas bowl now that it's an NFL stadium seems like a logical 8th bowl.

2) The MWC, CUSA, MAC and SBC could try to go coast-2-coast at that point. If they combined it could also solve the 1 bid problems they are facing in men's basketball.

A 32 team conference of four 8 team divisions. No conference championship game because that wouldn't be permitted by NCAA rules with four divisions but the highest rated team receiving the access bowl. If they could keep the whole 85-90 million from the access bowl to themselves that's more money in their pocket though.
05-27-2017 10:57 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 10:57 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Is P6 a gateway to P10?

1) If the AAC gets a contract bowl, it will probably require the addition of future bowl games. Houston Bowl could be a 7th game with an AAC contract tie-in and Las Vegas bowl now that it's an NFL stadium seems like a logical 8th bowl.

2) The MWC, CUSA, MAC and SBC could try to go coast-2-coast at that point. If they combined it could also solve the 1 bid problems they are facing in men's basketball.

A 32 team conference of four 8 team divisions. No conference championship game because that wouldn't be permitted by NCAA rules with four divisions but the highest rated team receiving the access bowl. If they could keep the whole 85-90 million from the access bowl to themselves that's more money in their pocket though.

Where to begin? Let's start with the hoops thing. If by "solving the 1 bid problem" you mean these schools could get 1 auto bid and 1 at-large bid, how is that better than the 4 auto bids they have now? (Of course now that I do the math, there are more than 32 teams in those conferences - where do the others go, and which ones are kicked out?)

Why do you assume that combined conference would still get an access bowl slot? Your scenario seems to suggest that this slot would always, and by contract, go to the AAC. Who is going to vote for that?

Whose pocket does the extra money for the 32 team mega-conference come out of?

You don't seem to have thought this through.
05-27-2017 11:20 AM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
The only way you see a cooperative reorganization would be a champions-only playoff, which will likely put us at either 8 or 16 conferences, which would likely be geographic divisions:

Region 1 - Hawaii, SDSU, UCLA, USC, Cal, Stanford, Fresno State, San Jose State
Region 2 - Nevada, UNLV, UW, WSU, Oregon, Oregon State, Boise State, Utah State
Region 3 - Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, Colorado, CSU, Air Force, Wyoming
Region 4 - UNM, NMSU, UTEP, Texas Tech, UTSA, Houston, Rice, Texas A&M
Region 5 - UNT, SMU, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Texas, Texas State
Region 6 - Missouri, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State
Region 7 - Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, ULM, LSU, Tulane, Arkansas, Arkansas State, Memphis
Region 8 - Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Memphis, Vanderbilt, MTSU, WKU

Region 9 - Mississippi State, Southern Miss, Ole Miss, Alabama, Auburn, UAB, Troy, South Alabama
Region 10 - Florida, Florida State, USF, UCF, FAU, FIU, Miami (FL), Georgia Southern
Region 11 - South Carolina, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, App State, Tennessee, Georgia, Georgia State, Georgia Tech
Region 12 - East Carolina, ODU, Virginia, Maryland, Navy, UNC, Duke, Wake, NCSU
Region 13 - UMass, UConn, Army, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Temple, Penn State
Region 14 - Buffalo, Ohio, Akron, Kent, Pittsburgh, Marshall, WVU, Virginia Tech, Liberty
Region 15 - Michigan, Michigan State, WMU, CMU, EMU, Toledo, BGSU, Ohio State
Region 16 - Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, Ball State, Kentucky, Louisville, Cincinnati, Miami (OH)
05-27-2017 11:35 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 11:35 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  The only way you see a cooperative reorganization would be a champions-only playoff, which will likely put us at either 8 or 16 conferences, which would likely be geographic divisions:

Region 1 - Hawaii, SDSU, UCLA, USC, Cal, Stanford, Fresno State, San Jose State
Region 2 - Nevada, UNLV, UW, WSU, Oregon, Oregon State, Boise State, Utah State
Region 3 - Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, Colorado, CSU, Air Force, Wyoming
Region 4 - UNM, NMSU, UTEP, Texas Tech, UTSA, Houston, Rice, Texas A&M
Region 5 - UNT, SMU, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Texas, Texas State
Region 6 - Missouri, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State
Region 7 - Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, ULM, LSU, Tulane, Arkansas, Arkansas State, Memphis
Region 8 - Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Memphis, Vanderbilt, MTSU, WKU

Region 9 - Mississippi State, Southern Miss, Ole Miss, Alabama, Auburn, UAB, Troy, South Alabama
Region 10 - Florida, Florida State, USF, UCF, FAU, FIU, Miami (FL), Georgia Southern
Region 11 - South Carolina, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, App State, Tennessee, Georgia, Georgia State, Georgia Tech
Region 12 - East Carolina, ODU, Virginia, Maryland, Navy, UNC, Duke, Wake, NCSU
Region 13 - UMass, UConn, Army, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Temple, Penn State
Region 14 - Buffalo, Ohio, Akron, Kent, Pittsburgh, Marshall, WVU, Virginia Tech, Liberty
Region 15 - Michigan, Michigan State, WMU, CMU, EMU, Toledo, BGSU, Ohio State
Region 16 - Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, Ball State, Kentucky, Louisville, Cincinnati, Miami (OH)

03-lmfao

I can just see the pitch

"Tired of all that money, games on TV and games against teams your fans want to watchA? We'll do we have a set up for you!"

Seriously though not a single P5 would agree to this
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2017 12:06 PM by 10thMountain.)
05-27-2017 12:04 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 09:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  An idea that I haven't seen expressed on the board but can't the P5/G5 problem be solved by co-opting the G5? Afterall the G5 have a vested interest in the system at this point and if co-opted would vote in the same direction as the P5.

1) Give the G5 the same votes in the autonomy structure as the P5.

2) Create contract slots for the G5 in an expanded CFP structure with super large payouts (60-80 million). Grow the CFP bowls from 6 to 12 to accommodate.

Do you not recall that during the 2012 CFP negotiations, the AAC's Mike Aresco proposed a "7th BCS Bowl" for the G5, and TV rejected it because it wasn't worth the money to them?

TV isn't willing to pay anything but peanuts for the G5, so if the CFP was expanded to 12 games, it would just be the same amount of money they currently get for 6 games but spread out over 12, pointless.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2017 12:12 PM by quo vadis.)
05-27-2017 12:11 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
Why are AAC fans so delusional as to think they are a P5 conference when in reality, most years they are not even as good as the MW?


ESPN is losing money by the boatload and the P5 leagues will not support them so there will be no P 10. Only way is to take 12 best G5 teams and make a new league, then there is a slight chance, but that will never happen


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05-27-2017 01:16 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 01:16 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Why are AAC fans so delusional as to think they are a P5 conference when in reality, most years they are not much better than the MW?


ESPN is making money by the boatload and the P5 leagues will not support them so there will be no P 10. Only way is to take 12 best G5 teams and make a new league, then there is a slight chance, but that will never happen


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FIFY
05-27-2017 02:52 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 02:52 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-27-2017 01:16 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Why are AAC fans so delusional as to think they are a P5 conference when in reality, most years they are not better than the MW?


ESPN is making money by the boatload and the P5 leagues will not support them so there will be no P 10. Only way is to take 12 best G5 teams and make a new league, then there is a slight chance, but that will never happen


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FIFY

If ESPN is making money by the boatload, why are they having so many lay offs? Next contracts for all conferences will be lower than the current ones. They have lost millions of viewers last few years due to cord cutting and liberal politics.





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05-27-2017 08:15 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 12:11 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(05-27-2017 09:36 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  An idea that I haven't seen expressed on the board but can't the P5/G5 problem be solved by co-opting the G5? Afterall the G5 have a vested interest in the system at this point and if co-opted would vote in the same direction as the P5.

1) Give the G5 the same votes in the autonomy structure as the P5.

2) Create contract slots for the G5 in an expanded CFP structure with super large payouts (60-80 million). Grow the CFP bowls from 6 to 12 to accommodate.

Do you not recall that during the 2012 CFP negotiations, the AAC's Mike Aresco proposed a "7th BCS Bowl" for the G5, and TV rejected it because it wasn't worth the money to them?

TV isn't willing to pay anything but peanuts for the G5, so if the CFP was expanded to 12 games, it would just be the same amount of money they currently get for 6 games but spread out over 12, pointless.

I do. That was 2012.

This is 2024 or whenever in my scenario.
05-27-2017 08:21 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 08:15 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(05-27-2017 02:52 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-27-2017 01:16 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Why are AAC fans so delusional as to think they are a P5 conference when in reality, most years they are not better than the MW?


ESPN is making money by the boatload and the P5 leagues will not support them so there will be no P 10. Only way is to take 12 best G5 teams and make a new league, then there is a slight chance, but that will never happen


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FIFY

If ESPN is making money by the boatload, why are they having so many lay offs? Next contracts for all conferences will be lower than the current ones. They have lost millions of viewers last few years due to cord cutting and liberal politics.

Because even though they are still making money by the boatload, it is a slightly smaller boat than it used to be. Make no mistake. ESPN is still hugely profitable.



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05-27-2017 08:24 PM
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
(05-27-2017 12:04 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(05-27-2017 11:35 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  The only way you see a cooperative reorganization would be a champions-only playoff, which will likely put us at either 8 or 16 conferences, which would likely be geographic divisions:

Region 1 - Hawaii, SDSU, UCLA, USC, Cal, Stanford, Fresno State, San Jose State
Region 2 - Nevada, UNLV, UW, WSU, Oregon, Oregon State, Boise State, Utah State
Region 3 - Arizona, Arizona State, Utah, BYU, Colorado, CSU, Air Force, Wyoming
Region 4 - UNM, NMSU, UTEP, Texas Tech, UTSA, Houston, Rice, Texas A&M
Region 5 - UNT, SMU, TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Tulsa, Texas, Texas State
Region 6 - Missouri, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State
Region 7 - Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, ULM, LSU, Tulane, Arkansas, Arkansas State, Memphis
Region 8 - Minnesota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Northwestern, Memphis, Vanderbilt, MTSU, WKU

Region 9 - Mississippi State, Southern Miss, Ole Miss, Alabama, Auburn, UAB, Troy, South Alabama
Region 10 - Florida, Florida State, USF, UCF, FAU, FIU, Miami (FL), Georgia Southern
Region 11 - South Carolina, Clemson, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, App State, Tennessee, Georgia, Georgia State, Georgia Tech
Region 12 - East Carolina, ODU, Virginia, Maryland, Navy, UNC, Duke, Wake, NCSU
Region 13 - UMass, UConn, Army, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Temple, Penn State
Region 14 - Buffalo, Ohio, Akron, Kent, Pittsburgh, Marshall, WVU, Virginia Tech, Liberty
Region 15 - Michigan, Michigan State, WMU, CMU, EMU, Toledo, BGSU, Ohio State
Region 16 - Indiana, Purdue, Notre Dame, Ball State, Kentucky, Louisville, Cincinnati, Miami (OH)

03-lmfao

I can just see the pitch

"Tired of all that money, games on TV and games against teams your fans want to watchA? We'll do we have a set up for you!"

Seriously though not a single P5 would agree to this

No and it doesn't even make sense. The MWC is better off playing a mid PAC 12 or Big 10 team or BYU/Army in Las Vegas, Honolulu, San Diego, Phoenix etc. CUSA and SB are better off trying to get a B12 team in New Orleans....it's the best they can hope for, and it makes sense. I'd be happy if the AAC could snag a #3 ACC team in Orlando or Houston. I honestly think it could work. I also wouldn't mind a couple of AAC vs MWC bowls. Boise vs Houston in Houston would draw a great crowd and good tv numbers. Same for Navy vs San Diego St/Fresno in San Diego or even ECU vs Boise in Honolulu...again haha.
05-27-2017 09:08 PM
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MJG Offline
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
Why not Boise and a bunch of ****** D2 schools that don't even play football join the P5? P14 would be even better SC Upstate vs Boise on an orange field would be incredible.

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05-27-2017 10:21 PM
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
The only way the P5 goes to a P10 is to split each P5 conference in half and backfill with G5 teams to get to 8 teams per P10 conference for a total of 80 teams.
05-27-2017 10:40 PM
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RE: Should the P5 expand and become a P10?
Well a conference minimum is 6 schools so:
Pacific: UW, UO, Cal, Furd, USC, UCLA.
Southwest: ASU, AZ, UU, CU, UT, TTU.
Great Plains: OU, Neb, KU, MU, Iowa, MN.
Midwest: Wisconsin, NW, IL, IU, PU, ND.
Great Lakes: UM, MSU, OSU, PSU, RU, MD.
Gulf: A&M, LSU, ARK, MSU, Miss, Bama.
Southeast: Auburn, UGA, GT, FL, FSU, Miami.
Atlantic: SCar, Clem, NCSt, Duke, UNC, UVA.
Appalachian: TN, Vandy, KY, VT, WVU, Pitt.
Remnants: OreSt, WSU, TCU, Baylor, OKSt, KSU, ISU, Wake, Lville, BC, Cuse.
05-28-2017 12:10 AM
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