(05-28-2017 07:56 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Self accepted and has yet to revolt their transfer despite the Lawson's (especially KJ) deplorable behavior. Another coach winning a National Championship (Calipari) handled talented but troublesome players . They put up with it because they understand a team needs high talent level to win. Tubby will need to better emulate his successful peers so we can win.

Tubby demoted Keelon and elevated his son to the assistant coach position. It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences including (but not limited to) losing leverage on motivating and controlling the Lawson players. The decision was Tubby's and he erred.

Then again, maybe the Lawsons were a cancer and needed to go. That remains a possibility that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

I'm happy they are gone. This drama was ridiculous.

(05-28-2017 12:21 AM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(05-27-2017 06:03 PM)M1T4 Wrote:  

(05-27-2017 05:47 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Currently on the Sundance Channel an episode of MASH is playing called "bombshell" which is perfect for this thread. It is about people believing the most outrageous thing they hear without actually knowing it to be true or not. Then they go on to spread it as fact adding their own bit of outrageousness to it while passing it on.

As far as we know half of what is said on here so far is pure bovine manure. But what we DO KNOW for a fact is that ONLY one of the people involved in this incident has had a history of disciplinary issues while at the U of M. And ONLY ONE of the people involved has gotten into a fight while playing a pick up game with teammates at the U of M.

I am starting to think you post like this just to argue.

If you're asking if i intentionally post to call out hypocrites then you are correct.

I despise hypocrites and will call them out each and every time i see them.

We have a situation which NO ONE on this board saw. Yet the OP assumes that the Lawsons were the ones at fault and everyone piles on and added their own bunch of bovine manure. The story then morphs into something much bigger than it actually was.

If the TRUTH upsets you so much then that must say something about you and your beliefs.

But the truth is that Jackson was a disciplinary problem from the day he walked onto campus. And Jackson DID get into a fight with a teammate during a pick up game.

Interesting part is NO ONE is wanting to challenge me on the statement. They all attempt to marginalize my post so they do not have to debate the statements.

Media reports state that Jackson missed a lay up and called a foul. He was called a B by one of the Lawsons.

So which is most likely, that a person would call someone a B and then jump them?

Or some one calls another person a B and the other person gets pissed and starts something?

Of course you do not want to look at that scenario as reported by media because it would tend to support the premise that it was more than likely that Jackson started the incident.

But why instill logic into a conversation with Hypocrites.

So Joe got into a fight with a teammate. That happens all the freaking time. Now jumping someone 4 on 1 is a different story, and threatening to get a gun ... that's completely different.

Who knows what happened, but what we do know is that JJ scored almost 1700 points at Memphis, dished out over 500 assists, was CUSA Player of the Year his Junior year, and led his team to 4 straight NCAA Tournament appearances. But somehow, he's the problem guy.

I sure wish we could get 5 "problem guys" like Joe Jackson.

(05-28-2017 09:08 AM)M1T4 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:57 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:36 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:29 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:06 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  "It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences "

In your opinion. BTW, no one associated with the UofM or professional sports pays your for your opinion. See what is important?

You are right. Indeed, it is the converse. I pay considerable amounts in relation to my income and spend (waste?) time discussing Tiger athletics and attending games despite my misgivings and utter lack of influence on events. It represents the important things fans like us do.

Not all fans piss on the coach at every opportunity like you do.

No coach is above criticism. . The program's advancement is paramount and not the coach, IMO.

You doing every waking moment. You enjoy it.

There appears to be folks who get off on carping about other Tiger fans, launching personal attacks and questioning motives; but I am not into it.

I respect other Tiger fans (including you - a solid Tiger supporter) and I am interested in comments differing from mine. I hope all of us (me included) will strive for civility here.

(05-28-2017 08:29 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:06 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:56 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Self accepted and has yet to revolt their transfer despite the Lawson's (especially KJ) deplorable behavior. Another coach winning a National Championship (Calipari) handled talented but troublesome players . They put up with it because they understand a team needs high talent level to win. Tubby will need to better emulate his successful peers so we can win.

Tubby demoted Keelon and elevated his son to the assistant coach position. It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences including (but not limited to) losing leverage on motivating and controlling the Lawson players. The decision was Tubby's and he erred.

"It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences "

In your opinion. BTW, no one associated with the UofM or professional sports pays your for your opinion. See what is important?

You are right. Indeed, it is the converse. I pay considerable amounts in relation to my income and spend (waste?) time discussing Tiger athletics and attending games despite my misgivings and utter lack of influence on events. It represents the important things fans like us do.

you suck at humble-brag...

http://www.espn929.com/articles/929-line...game-tweet

Some people just can't let the past go.never seen the mob mentality to attack a coach at ever mention. Tubby does things that get under my skin but I am at least willing to give him more than 1 year. We gave Pastner 7 to run the program down. He is fortunate Joe and Chris stayed with him that long.

(05-28-2017 12:01 PM)M1T4 Wrote:  Some people just can't let the past go.never seen the mob mentality to attack a coach at ever mention. Tubby does things that get under my skin but I am at least willing to give him more than 1 year. We gave Pastner 7 to run the program down. He is fortunate Joe and Chris stayed with him that long.

^^^THIS^^^

(05-28-2017 09:17 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:56 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Self accepted and has yet to revolt their transfer despite the Lawson's (especially KJ) deplorable behavior. Another coach winning a National Championship (Calipari) handled talented but troublesome players . They put up with it because they understand a team needs high talent level to win. Tubby will need to better emulate his successful peers so we can win.

Tubby demoted Keelon and elevated his son to the assistant coach position. It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences including (but not limited to) losing leverage on motivating and controlling the Lawson players. The decision was Tubby's and he erred.

Then again, maybe the Lawsons were a cancer and needed to go. That remains a possibility that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

I'm happy they are gone. This drama was ridiculous.

The "cancer" concept would make more sense if they transferred to a lower level team rather than blueblood KU. Why would Self introduce a cancer to his successful team?

Nevertheless, few would care if we lost the Lawson's, but Saul picked up players of equal or better caliber. Instead, Saul has done worse than nothing by his involvement with a D-2 player.

(05-28-2017 05:36 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 09:17 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:56 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Self accepted and has yet to revolt their transfer despite the Lawson's (especially KJ) deplorable behavior. Another coach winning a National Championship (Calipari) handled talented but troublesome players . They put up with it because they understand a team needs high talent level to win. Tubby will need to better emulate his successful peers so we can win.

Tubby demoted Keelon and elevated his son to the assistant coach position. It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences including (but not limited to) losing leverage on motivating and controlling the Lawson players. The decision was Tubby's and he erred.

Then again, maybe the Lawsons were a cancer and needed to go. That remains a possibility that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

I'm happy they are gone. This drama was ridiculous.

The "cancer" concept would make more sense if they transferred to a lower level team rather than blueblood KU. Why would Self introduce a cancer to his successful team?

Nevertheless, few would care if we lost the Lawson's, but Saul picked up players of equal or better caliber. Instead, Saul has done worse than nothing by his involvement with a D-2 player.

It would actually make sense if there were issues that cropped up over the past 2 seasons involving the Lawsons, but there have not been. Also you have Tubby saying he was suprised that they were leaving. The whole cancer crap is nothing but people somehow trying to make the best out of something bad.

Saul has done worse just by being himself. I was talking to an AAU coach Friday who was telling me about a coaching seminar he was invited to this past season. He said Tubby was friendly and sociable, he said Pooh was friendly and sociable. He said there was someone else on the staff, but not an assistant who was all out, talking with everyone and just a great guy. Then he talked about Saul. He said Saul "that guy has a serious attitude. I mean, a real bad attitude. If someone spoke to him he would look at them like they had offended him. If someone asked him a question he would huff, or sigh, and turn away from them. Something is wrong with that guy. He was gone the moment he thought it was ok for him to leave."

Basically, the exact same stuff I have been hearing over and over again about #Saulsavant. He is a blackeye to the program and as long as Tubby insists on Saul being apart of our program I cannot respect or support Tubby, only the team.

(05-28-2017 05:36 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 09:17 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:56 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Self accepted and has yet to revolt their transfer despite the Lawson's (especially KJ) deplorable behavior. Another coach winning a National Championship (Calipari) handled talented but troublesome players . They put up with it because they understand a team needs high talent level to win. Tubby will need to better emulate his successful peers so we can win.

Tubby demoted Keelon and elevated his son to the assistant coach position. It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences including (but not limited to) losing leverage on motivating and controlling the Lawson players. The decision was Tubby's and he erred.

Then again, maybe the Lawsons were a cancer and needed to go. That remains a possibility that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

I'm happy they are gone. This drama was ridiculous.

The "cancer" concept would make more sense if they transferred to a lower level team rather than blueblood KU. Why would Self introduce a cancer to his successful team?

Nevertheless, few would care if we lost the Lawson's, but Saul picked up players of equal or better caliber. Instead, Saul has done worse than nothing by his involvement with a D-2 player.

Because the Lawson's are not the big fish at KU like they were at Memphis. They will have to earn playing time instead of a paycheck for dad.

(05-28-2017 06:23 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 05:36 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 09:17 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:56 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Self accepted and has yet to revolt their transfer despite the Lawson's (especially KJ) deplorable behavior. Another coach winning a National Championship (Calipari) handled talented but troublesome players . They put up with it because they understand a team needs high talent level to win. Tubby will need to better emulate his successful peers so we can win.

Tubby demoted Keelon and elevated his son to the assistant coach position. It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences including (but not limited to) losing leverage on motivating and controlling the Lawson players. The decision was Tubby's and he erred.

Then again, maybe the Lawsons were a cancer and needed to go. That remains a possibility that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

I'm happy they are gone. This drama was ridiculous.

The "cancer" concept would make more sense if they transferred to a lower level team rather than blueblood KU. Why would Self introduce a cancer to his successful team?

Nevertheless, few would care if we lost the Lawson's, but Saul picked up players of equal or better caliber. Instead, Saul has done worse than nothing by his involvement with a D-2 player.

It would actually make sense if there were issues that cropped up over the past 2 seasons involving the Lawsons, but there have not been. Also you have Tubby saying he was suprised that they were leaving. The whole cancer crap is nothing but people somehow trying to make the best out of something bad.

Saul has done worse just by being himself. I was talking to an AAU coach Friday who was telling me about a coaching seminar he was invited to this past season. He said Tubby was friendly and sociable, he said Pooh was friendly and sociable. He said there was someone else on the staff, but not an assistant who was all out, talking with everyone and just a great guy. Then he talked about Saul. He said Saul "that guy has a serious attitude. I mean, a real bad attitude. If someone spoke to him he would look at them like they had offended him. If someone asked him a question he would huff, or sigh, and turn away from them. Something is wrong with that guy. He was gone the moment he thought it was ok for him to leave."

Basically, the exact same stuff I have been hearing over and over again about #Saulsavant. He is a blackeye to the program and as long as Tubby insists on Saul being apart of our program I cannot respect or support Tubby, only the team.

Wow!

(05-28-2017 07:17 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 05:36 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 09:17 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:56 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Self accepted and has yet to revolt their transfer despite the Lawson's (especially KJ) deplorable behavior. Another coach winning a National Championship (Calipari) handled talented but troublesome players . They put up with it because they understand a team needs high talent level to win. Tubby will need to better emulate his successful peers so we can win.

Tubby demoted Keelon and elevated his son to the assistant coach position. It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences including (but not limited to) losing leverage on motivating and controlling the Lawson players. The decision was Tubby's and he erred.

Then again, maybe the Lawsons were a cancer and needed to go. That remains a possibility that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

I'm happy they are gone. This drama was ridiculous.

The "cancer" concept would make more sense if they transferred to a lower level team rather than blueblood KU. Why would Self introduce a cancer to his successful team?

Nevertheless, few would care if we lost the Lawson's, but Saul picked up players of equal or better caliber. Instead, Saul has done worse than nothing by his involvement with a D-2 player.

Because the Lawson's are not the big fish at KU like they were at Memphis. They will have to earn playing time instead of a paycheck for dad.

You, unwittingly I'm sure, confirmed that Self knows how to handle potential issues. Tubby, OTHO, actively created issues by hiring his (to put it mildly) underachieving son and demoting someone with access to talent that Tubby has been unable to obtain.

If Tubby was forced to demote Keelon for reasons we are not privy, at the very least he could have hired a recruiter able to haul in high level talent by using the abundant advantages available at Memphis. Joe is a hard worker and productive, but he cannot do it by himself.

Saul has to go. Tubby's fidelity concerning his job lies with the program and not his family.

Happy Memorial Day! Thanks to all whom fought and sacrificed their lives so we may enjoy freedom today. Again, thank you for your selflessness, bravery, and loyalty.

(05-28-2017 09:15 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:57 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:36 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:29 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:06 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  "It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences "

In your opinion. BTW, no one associated with the UofM or professional sports pays your for your opinion. See what is important?

You are right. Indeed, it is the converse. I pay considerable amounts in relation to my income and spend (waste?) time discussing Tiger athletics and attending games despite my misgivings and utter lack of influence on events. It represents the important things fans like us do.

Not all fans piss on the coach at every opportunity like you do.

No coach is above criticism. . The program's advancement is paramount and not the coach, IMO.

Somehow you correlate tearing down a coach respected by the NCAA basketball nation with 'advancing the program'. No coach is perfect and Tubby has made big mistakes in statements he probably wished he could get a 'do over'. But the constant criticism does not 'advance the program'. And that is not an opinion, it is a fact.

As I read this thread, the thought pops into my head to "do some research" rather than just read opinions and automatically buy into them, regardless of the side of those expressing their opinions. After all, truth is the ultimate goal. So, I started researching Saul Smith. Here is an interesting article from his time at MINNESOTA....10 years ago. One thing is for sure, with TEXAS TECH and MINNESOTA now behind him, Saul has 10 years more experience. Hope you enjoy reading this reporters story on Saul.

http://www.twincities.com/2007/06/16/pri...ith-story/

A COMMERCIAL APPEAL interview with Saul. Some of you may have seen this but those out of town probably missed it.

http://archive.commercialappeal.com/spor...87971.html

(05-29-2017 08:49 AM)DallasTiger Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 09:15 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:57 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:36 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 08:29 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  You are right. Indeed, it is the converse. I pay considerable amounts in relation to my income and spend (waste?) time discussing Tiger athletics and attending games despite my misgivings and utter lack of influence on events. It represents the important things fans like us do.

Not all fans piss on the coach at every opportunity like you do.

No coach is above criticism. . The program's advancement is paramount and not the coach, IMO.

Somehow you correlate tearing down a coach respected by the NCAA basketball nation with 'advancing the program'. No coach is perfect and Tubby has made big mistakes in statements he probably wished he could get a 'do over'. But the constant criticism does not 'advance the program'. And that is not an opinion, it is a fact.

As I read this thread, the thought pops into my head to "do some research" rather than just read opinions and automatically buy into them, regardless of the side of those expressing their opinions. After all, truth is the ultimate goal. So, I started researching Saul Smith. Here is an interesting article from his time at MINNESOTA....10 years ago. One thing is for sure, with TEXAS TECH and MINNESOTA now behind him, Saul has 10 years more experience. Hope you enjoy reading this reporters story on Saul.

http://www.twincities.com/2007/06/16/pri...ith-story/

Wow, I thoroughly enjoyed reading this article. It appears Saul has been victimized a great deal but has learned to overcome adversity personally and professionally. Thank you so much for sharing!

(05-28-2017 10:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:17 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 05:36 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 09:17 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:56 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Self accepted and has yet to revolt their transfer despite the Lawson's (especially KJ) deplorable behavior. Another coach winning a National Championship (Calipari) handled talented but troublesome players . They put up with it because they understand a team needs high talent level to win. Tubby will need to better emulate his successful peers so we can win.

Tubby demoted Keelon and elevated his son to the assistant coach position. It was a disastrous decision with far reaching consequences including (but not limited to) losing leverage on motivating and controlling the Lawson players. The decision was Tubby's and he erred.

Then again, maybe the Lawsons were a cancer and needed to go. That remains a possibility that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

I'm happy they are gone. This drama was ridiculous.

The "cancer" concept would make more sense if they transferred to a lower level team rather than blueblood KU. Why would Self introduce a cancer to his successful team?

Nevertheless, few would care if we lost the Lawson's, but Saul picked up players of equal or better caliber. Instead, Saul has done worse than nothing by his involvement with a D-2 player.

Because the Lawson's are not the big fish at KU like they were at Memphis. They will have to earn playing time instead of a paycheck for dad.

You, unwittingly I'm sure, confirmed that Self knows how to handle potential issues. Tubby, OTHO, actively created issues by hiring his (to put it mildly) underachieving son and demoting someone with access to talent that Tubby has been unable to obtain.

If Tubby was forced to demote Keelon for reasons we are not privy, at the very least he could have hired a recruiter able to haul in high level talent by using the abundant advantages available at Memphis. Joe is a hard worker and productive, but he cannot do it by himself.

Saul has to go. Tubby's fidelity concerning his job lies with the program and not his family.

Daddy will never be on Selfs Staff that is one advantage.

The Lawsons will have competition from other players so if they don't listen they will sit...Another advantage.

It is situational not any additional KNOWLEDGE that Self has but I am sure you knew that.

(05-29-2017 08:58 AM)DallasTiger Wrote:  A COMMERCIAL APPEAL interview with Saul. Some of you may have seen this but those out of town probably missed it.

http://archive.commercialappeal.com/spor...87971.html

Great read as well. It has to be quite humiliating and devastating to receive a DUI charge. One can only imagine the shame, guilt, and heartache his parents felt emotionally during the ordeal. Interestingly, he states the experience gave him a better or new perspective on life; it humbled him so to speak. It sounds as though he has far more gratitude now whereas before he risked losing it all. Thanks for sharing.

(05-29-2017 10:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 10:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:17 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 05:36 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 09:17 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  Then again, maybe the Lawsons were a cancer and needed to go. That remains a possibility that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

I'm happy they are gone. This drama was ridiculous.

The "cancer" concept would make more sense if they transferred to a lower level team rather than blueblood KU. Why would Self introduce a cancer to his successful team?

Nevertheless, few would care if we lost the Lawson's, but Saul picked up players of equal or better caliber. Instead, Saul has done worse than nothing by his involvement with a D-2 player.

Because the Lawson's are not the big fish at KU like they were at Memphis. They will have to earn playing time instead of a paycheck for dad.

You, unwittingly I'm sure, confirmed that Self knows how to handle potential issues. Tubby, OTHO, actively created issues by hiring his (to put it mildly) underachieving son and demoting someone with access to talent that Tubby has been unable to obtain.

If Tubby was forced to demote Keelon for reasons we are not privy, at the very least he could have hired a recruiter able to haul in high level talent by using the abundant advantages available at Memphis. Joe is a hard worker and productive, but he cannot do it by himself.

Saul has to go. Tubby's fidelity concerning his job lies with the program and not his family.

Daddy will never be on Selfs Staff that is one advantage.

The Lawsons will have competition from other players so if they don't listen they will sit...Another advantage.

It is situational not any additional KNOWLEDGE that Self has but I am sure you knew that.

It's pointless with him

(05-29-2017 10:19 AM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 10:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 07:17 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 05:36 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(05-28-2017 09:17 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  Then again, maybe the Lawsons were a cancer and needed to go. That remains a possibility that you don't seem to want to acknowledge.

I'm happy they are gone. This drama was ridiculous.

The "cancer" concept would make more sense if they transferred to a lower level team rather than blueblood KU. Why would Self introduce a cancer to his successful team?

Nevertheless, few would care if we lost the Lawson's, but Saul picked up players of equal or better caliber. Instead, Saul has done worse than nothing by his involvement with a D-2 player.

Because the Lawson's are not the big fish at KU like they were at Memphis. They will have to earn playing time instead of a paycheck for dad.

You, unwittingly I'm sure, confirmed that Self knows how to handle potential issues. Tubby, OTHO, actively created issues by hiring his (to put it mildly) underachieving son and demoting someone with access to talent that Tubby has been unable to obtain.

If Tubby was forced to demote Keelon for reasons we are not privy, at the very least he could have hired a recruiter able to haul in high level talent by using the abundant advantages available at Memphis. Joe is a hard worker and productive, but he cannot do it by himself.

Saul has to go. Tubby's fidelity concerning his job lies with the program and not his family.

Daddy will never be on Selfs Staff that is one advantage.

The Lawsons will have competition from other players so if they don't listen they will sit...Another advantage.

It is situational not any additional KNOWLEDGE that Self has but I am sure you knew that.

Tubby had the advantage of having Dad on the payroll but Tubby squandered it. Second, if Tubby could not sit the Lawson's, then it is Tubby's fault for not recruiting better players.

I am surprised seeing the reflexive defense of Tubby - including hiring his son. However, it is a messageboard and I recognize good Tiger fans are entitled to their opinion even when it differs from mine.