I think the point can't be discounted ... but it is impossible to predict how the tip-giving public will react.

It is a very ingrained act, in American culture, especially for sit-down service. I wonder how many people will simply forget that the servers are now making a $15/hr base on top of tips, and proceed to tip the normal 20%?


Might take some time ...... or that could be completely wrong.

The ones that are screwed are the ones that work in greasy spoons where the food doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. In those places I usually tip more than 15%. The more expensive places it's only 15% or a few cents less or more if I round it up to a round number.

(05-25-2017 02:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I think the point can't be discounted ... but it is impossible to predict how the tip-giving public will react.

There are scientific polls on the matter.

First let's point out that servers are making 25-28$ an hour in Minneapolis when you factor tips in.

http://www.startribune.com/restaurant-gr...417228773/
"a survey Monday showing that average hourly pay for servers at 72 restaurants in the city is $28.56."

star tribune Wrote:This survey proves what we as servers already know. Tipped restaurant employees in Minneapolis are making well above $15 an hour on average," said Sarah Norton, a six-year Minneapolis server who organized a group called Service Industry Staff for Change. "City leaders should focus on giving a raise to the cooks and support employees while preserving the jobs and pay structure for tipped employees.

Now factor in some survey's that show at least 20% of people would stop tipping altogether (1 in 5) if the servers were making the minimum wage and the match is pretty easy.

Quote:It is a very ingrained act, in American culture, especially for sit-down service. I wonder how many people will simply forget that the servers are now making a $15/hr base on top of tips, and proceed to tip the normal 20%?

I would imagine very few people would still do that. I have worked for tip, I am a very good tipper, but if my server was making 15$ an hour, and the cost of my meal increased a bit to cover it I would either not tip, or drop my tips down to 5% for those servers who were awesome

Quote:Might take some time ...... or that could be completely wrong.

Most servers realize that such a move would damage them... The servers who are pushing for this are the folks at fast food chains and baristas.

(05-25-2017 02:29 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  The ones that are screwed are the ones that work in greasy spoons where the food doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. In those places I usually tip more than 15%. The more expensive places it's only 15% or a few cents less or more if I round it up to a round number.

I feel for the greasy spoon waitress. She's busting her ass as hard, if not harder, than the 20 year old hottie working at The Outback but makes a fraction of tips because of the value of the items on the menu. For that reason I usually tip those folks pretty well.

Kaplony, how much were you tipped for saving lives? Me neither.

If they're making $15/hr, I'm not tipping them. There would be far too many people also making $15/hour doing meaningful things (often more meaningful than being a waiter) but not eligible for tips because that's not how the commerce works. I don't tip the cashier at a grocery store. I don't tip the guy who puts the plastic cover on the TV I just bought. I don't tip the stocker at Home Depot.

It actually seems pretty obvious to me.

(05-25-2017 02:34 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(05-25-2017 02:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I think the point can't be discounted ... but it is impossible to predict how the tip-giving public will react.

There are scientific polls on the matter.

First let's point out that servers are making 25-28$ an hour in Minneapolis when you factor tips in.

http://www.startribune.com/restaurant-gr...417228773/
"a survey Monday showing that average hourly pay for servers at 72 restaurants in the city is $28.56."

star tribune Wrote:This survey proves what we as servers already know. Tipped restaurant employees in Minneapolis are making well above $15 an hour on average," said Sarah Norton, a six-year Minneapolis server who organized a group called Service Industry Staff for Change. "City leaders should focus on giving a raise to the cooks and support employees while preserving the jobs and pay structure for tipped employees.

Now factor in some survey's that show at least 20% of people would stop tipping altogether (1 in 5) if the servers were making the minimum wage and the match is pretty easy.

Quote:It is a very ingrained act, in American culture, especially for sit-down service. I wonder how many people will simply forget that the servers are now making a $15/hr base on top of tips, and proceed to tip the normal 20%?

I would imagine very few people would still do that. I have worked for tip, I am a very good tipper, but if my server was making 15$ an hour, and the cost of my meal increased a bit to cover it I would either not tip, or drop my tips down to 5% for those servers who were awesome

Quote:Might take some time ...... or that could be completely wrong.

Most servers realize that such a move would damage them... The servers who are pushing for this are the folks at fast food chains and baristas.

OK, you have persuaded me that restaurant servers, especially high-end, could very well lose money.

But I agree with the minimum wage for low-end service people, and like the server in your quote said, for cooks and support staff.


How do you help them, without hurting the servers?? Are you going to print on the menus, or tell every table when you come out, "Just so you know, our serving staff has decided to opt-out of the minimum wage, so please keep tipping us at 20%!" Sounds tacky ...

Guess they're just going to have to hope that people keep tipping ...

(05-25-2017 02:44 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  If they're making $15/hr, I'm not tipping them. There would be far too many people also making $15/hour doing meaningful things (often more meaningful than being a waiter) but not eligible for tips because that's not how the commerce works. I don't tip the cashier at a grocery store. I don't tip the guy who puts the plastic cover on the TV I just bought. I don't tip the stocker at Home Depot.

It actually seems pretty obvious to me.

I agree ...

There have always been people who question the tradition of tipping, and ask why we tip these workers but not those workers.

This could accelerate the end of the tipping tradition, altogether. At least in Mpls ...

(05-25-2017 02:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(05-25-2017 02:34 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(05-25-2017 02:14 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I think the point can't be discounted ... but it is impossible to predict how the tip-giving public will react.

There are scientific polls on the matter.

First let's point out that servers are making 25-28$ an hour in Minneapolis when you factor tips in.

http://www.startribune.com/restaurant-gr...417228773/
"a survey Monday showing that average hourly pay for servers at 72 restaurants in the city is $28.56."

star tribune Wrote:This survey proves what we as servers already know. Tipped restaurant employees in Minneapolis are making well above $15 an hour on average," said Sarah Norton, a six-year Minneapolis server who organized a group called Service Industry Staff for Change. "City leaders should focus on giving a raise to the cooks and support employees while preserving the jobs and pay structure for tipped employees.

Now factor in some survey's that show at least 20% of people would stop tipping altogether (1 in 5) if the servers were making the minimum wage and the match is pretty easy.

Quote:It is a very ingrained act, in American culture, especially for sit-down service. I wonder how many people will simply forget that the servers are now making a $15/hr base on top of tips, and proceed to tip the normal 20%?

I would imagine very few people would still do that. I have worked for tip, I am a very good tipper, but if my server was making 15$ an hour, and the cost of my meal increased a bit to cover it I would either not tip, or drop my tips down to 5% for those servers who were awesome

Quote:Might take some time ...... or that could be completely wrong.

Most servers realize that such a move would damage them... The servers who are pushing for this are the folks at fast food chains and baristas.

OK, you have persuaded me that restaurant servers, especially high-end, could very well lose money.

But I agree with the minimum wage for low-end service people, and like the server in your quote said, for cooks and support staff.


How do you help them, without hurting the servers?? Are you going to print on the menus, or tell every table when you come out, "Just so you know, our serving staff has decided to opt-out of the minimum wage, so please keep tipping us at 20%!" Sounds tacky ...

Guess they're just going to have to hope that people keep tipping ...

All servers, including the low end, must make minimum wage including tips, or they must be compensated upward to make that happen.

Being a bartender and server at high end locations can pay extremely well in tips. The low end people will not make as much. They shouldnt. What they should do is to use that time to hone their skills so that they can move up. Most of these places now tip pool, and the current staff can be extremely picky about who is allowed into their tip pool.

But again, if the public knows that a server is guaranteed to make $15/hr, through a combination of wages and tips, why would they keep tipping? Then it becomes a $15/hr base wage only, which is great, but would be less for some servers.


Perhaps at the end of the day, if tipping completely disappears, high end servers will band together and just start demanding a minimum $20, $25, $30 per hour?

Who knows. Will be interesting to see.

(05-25-2017 03:17 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  But again, if the public knows that a server is guaranteed to make $15/hr, through a combination of wages and tips, why would they keep tipping? Then it becomes a $15/hr base wage only, which is great, but would be less for some servers.


Perhaps at the end of the day, if tipping completely disappears, high end servers will band together and just start demanding a minimum $20, $25, $30 per hour?

Who knows. Will be interesting to see.

The best solution is to let the businesses figure it out themselves. If you try to force it from city hall you will get some **** solution that is universal.

I have not seen this mentioned and I may be completely wrong but aren't cash tips tax free unless reported by the server?

So if server's were required to make minimum wage, there tips would likely decrease as the public would tip less or not at all since the server was getting paid by the restaurant. Since that money is coming directly from the restaurant it will be taxed at a rate of about 20% when you factor in income, state, and FICA. Cash tips may be more than $15 an hour and they have the potential to be tax free. I would think this would be the case of don't rock the boat.

(05-25-2017 03:35 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I have not seen this mentioned and I may be completely wrong but aren't cash tips tax free unless reported by the server?

No different than any other income ... If I run a side job fixing peoples computers (I don't) and I don't report the income, then it's tax free.

It's also a crime.

(05-25-2017 12:20 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(05-25-2017 12:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  At least in Mpls, the proposal currently favored to pass is that servers, bartenders, etc. would make a $15/hr base PLUS they'd still receive tips.

For tax purposes, their total wages would be base + tips (depending where you work, might come out to $20, $25, $30, ... per hour, on average).

But for purposes of the proposed new law, if they made say $7/hr in tips, the business would still have to pay them $15/hr base on top of that (as opposed to just an "additional" $8/hr, to get up to $15/hr, which is what owners want).

I'm not sure folks would tip if they knew the person was making $15/hour.

I wouldn't. That's an okay living. I pay my employees $15/hr for manual labor and nobody gives them tips. Being a server is considerably easier than what they do (i know because I've been a server and I still do many of the installations my company does).

(05-25-2017 03:17 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  But again, if the public knows that a server is guaranteed to make $15/hr, through a combination of wages and tips, why would they keep tipping? Then it becomes a $15/hr base wage only, which is great, but would be less for some servers.


Perhaps at the end of the day, if tipping completely disappears, high end servers will band together and just start demanding a minimum $20, $25, $30 per hour?

Who knows. Will be interesting to see.

Let me make a caveat to my earlier comment in light of this.....

If I knew/suspected that someone made $15/hr without tips... I wouldn't tip unless I felt they went above and beyond their job... I think you're right that high end establishments would pay more to get better servers, and that would be reflected in the prices of things.

That opens a whole other can of worms, though. What if you get the $15/hr guy as a server, but you're paying the same for your meal as the guy getting the $30/hr server?

It would be interesting to see how business would react. If we actually went to such a wage, I fear that we'd have the min wage waiters suddenly making $15, with even less incentive than they had before not to spit in your food.

(05-25-2017 02:39 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  Kaplony, how much were you tipped for saving lives? Me neither.

Folks would bring us cake and cookies sometimes. Once we ran a lightning strike on a residence that fried the breaker box of a house owned by one of our deputies. He was in the Guard and deployed to Afghanistan at the time but his wife was home and she fretted about losing all the food in the freezer. We told her that we had an ice machine and she was free to come get all the ice she needed to keep the food in coolers, and several of us offered her the use of our large coolers until she could get repairs done. When she called the insurance company and they cut her a check for the value of the food she brought most of it to the station. We ate like kings for the next two weeks.

(05-25-2017 03:35 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I have not seen this mentioned and I may be completely wrong but aren't cash tips tax free unless reported by the server?

So if server's were required to make minimum wage, there tips would likely decrease as the public would tip less or not at all since the server was getting paid by the restaurant. Since that money is coming directly from the restaurant it will be taxed at a rate of about 20% when you factor in income, state, and FICA. Cash tips may be more than $15 an hour and they have the potential to be tax free. I would think this would be the case of don't rock the boat.

No. You are wrong. They are taxable. The restaurant has to report a certain % whether the waiter declares them or not. In practice, that number is lower than what they actually earn, so like any other cash income, it often gets underreported.

I do around 20% too. If they make significantly more than they do now, especially 15 bucks or so, I no longer tip.

(05-25-2017 03:35 PM)solohawks Wrote:  I have not seen this mentioned and I may be completely wrong but aren't cash tips tax free unless reported by the server?

So if server's were required to make minimum wage, there tips would likely decrease as the public would tip less or not at all since the server was getting paid by the restaurant. Since that money is coming directly from the restaurant it will be taxed at a rate of about 20% when you factor in income, state, and FICA. Cash tips may be more than $15 an hour and they have the potential to be tax free. I would think this would be the case of don't rock the boat.

Potentially tax free? No. Tips are taxable. Whether the waiter claims the income or not is, well...

Back in the day (I believe its changed), a server had to claim their tips until they reached the minimum wage amount. If they did not make enough in tip to hit minimum wage for their work, then the business had to compensate them up to that amount.

The problem with trying to make this 'fair' and giving everyone the flat minimum wage, is that some servers go above and beyond to serve their guests so they can make more money. They are putting out the effort to provide excellent service, so why shouldn't they make more. The boss never sees this directly, so it makes sense that the customers should be the one to determine how good the service was.

I have several friends that are servers and on their 8 hour shift they'll make ~$400 dollars a night in tips. Yes that's much more than other servers, but they socialize and try to make the guests experience as good as possible, and as a result the get more in tips. In contrast there are other servers who dont work as hard and dont make as much. That's reality... almost Darwinian in a way.

Yes there are older people who don't have the gumption to work as hard as the young 20s waitress/waiters at being social, but I'm sorry... I break that down to life choices. Working as a waiter/waitress at a Denny's should not have been seen as a career path. It's just like the people who are trying to make McDonalds cashier a career.

These jobs were intended to be jobs you got to help you get into the work force, or for extra cash on the side. They were never meant to be life long jobs you could live off of.

The problem is not that the wage is to low, the problem is that people consider these jobs as careers to live off of when they shouldn't.