Im hoping the AAC can become a true tweener like the WAC was.
The WAC had the Holiday Bowl for their champ to play a #2/3 team from the Big 10. The WAC was able to swap their Champion Bowl for the Cotton and Citrus in the 90's. The WAC had all their bowls vs "power schools". Copper & Freedom Bowls vs power teams and Hawaii Bowl vs power teams. The WAC was making 1/2 of the media money the "P conferences" were. Not 10 times less like today. When 8 WAC schools left to become the MWC in 1998, they earned 1 million a year per school. Compare that to the media deals of the PAC and ACC at the time. A True tweener.
Can the AAC become a tweener like the WAC was?

Save us

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(05-20-2017 02:33 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  Save us

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I remember back in the WAC hey day of the 90's that NIU was in the Big West! Also, think about this, today there are 2 Western conferences: PAC 12 & MWC.
In 1999:
-PAC 10
-MWC
-WAC
-Big West
4 Western football conferences then; less population. Talk about Western consolidation for the PAC and MWC! Before the MWC, there was the SWC. Again 4 western conferences then.....

As long as the CFP or similar exists there will be no tweeners.

There will be us and them.
Those who have a guaranteed slot in the elite and events and guaranteed major share of the post-season event revenue and those who have to compete for a slot and are guaranteed a smaller share.

If we can get a TV deal for 5 mil, or more per school , and a step up bowl game for champ when not in
access bowl, we will be a tweener. So the answer is yes we can,, the question is will we?

(05-20-2017 03:08 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  If we can get a TV deal for 5 mil, or more per school , and a step up bowl game for champ when not in
access bowl, we will be a tweener. So the answer is yes we can,, the question is will we?

I guess maybe the question could be...CAN the AAC be allowed to be a tweener like the Old WAC was? Then if so, will we? If that's allowed, I think the answer is yes. In fact, I could live with a deal where there's a P5 and tweener like the MWC out West and the tweener AAC out East. They are on the opposite side of the country with no overlap so I'm not worried what happens with them. I don't think it effects us.

To answer the question, straight out NO. The AAC is not even as good as the MWC most years.


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Just ask Aresco to announce that the AAC is a Tweener conference and it's done.

Oh, and have "Tweener" decals on every helmet.

I would say yes. But they need to do a few things to cement it.

1st, Get a name contract bowl with a P5 conference. Or create one.

2nd, Expand. The AAC has several quality program's. But they may be able to add to them. If Baylor gets booted from the Big 12. Then the AAC would be a good landing spot. They could also look to add Colorado state or New Mexico. If Baylor doesn't get booted. Then try and expand with CSU and UNM before current media contract expires.

3rd, Boost basketball. Which they have been doing with Wichita state addition.

The short answer is no. At least not in the next 5-6 years, which is basically the next media deal cycle. So there is no way they will get that premium Aresco wants, especially with Army-Navy and Notre Dame-Navy not part of any media deal.

The reality is, if say Temple and Houston are both 8-1 when they play, that game could rival a Purdue-Minnesota or an Oregon State-Arizona game. Problem is, you maybe get one or two compelling games like that, while a P5 conference is loaded with Kentucky vs Georgia games that will match it. No network will pay a premium for AAC content. It's just slot fillers, nothing more. Tulane vs Cincy is no more compelling than USM vs ODU or Fresno St vs Wyoming, and not worth a nickle more to the networks.

The complicated answer is six years from now, in the 2023 season, we don't know if the B12 will have seen an exodus of 6 or 7 schools and the dissolving of the conference, or if they lose just 2 to 4 schools and back fill - mostly from the American. If it's the latter, the the American will be broken. Worst case scenario for the American is the B12 loses most of it's members but over a 2-3 year period back filling with as many as 5 AAC schools. If it's the former, the AAC might wind up with a Big 12 school, even perhaps West Virginia (yikes! I gotta think ESPN will almost force the ACC to take them in that scenario).

As a network I would not invest in that given the uncertainty.

YES, I say the AAC is already a sexy league and above the tweener scale... Of course with the exception of it's current crappy tv deal and bowl lineup that requires prompt revisions.

(05-20-2017 04:28 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The short answer is no. At least not in the next 5-6 years, which is basically the next media deal cycle. So there is no way they will get that premium Aresco wants, especially with Army-Navy and Notre Dame-Navy not part of any media deal.

The reality is, if say Temple and Houston are both 8-1 when they play, that game could rival a Purdue-Minnesota or an Oregon State-Arizona game. Problem is, you maybe get one or two compelling games like that, while a P5 conference is loaded with Kentucky vs Georgia games that will match it. No network will pay a premium for AAC content. It's just slot fillers, nothing more. Tulane vs Cincy is no more compelling than USM vs ODU or Fresno St vs Wyoming, and not worth a nickle more to the networks.

The complicated answer is six years from now, in the 2023 season, we don't know if the B12 will have seen an exodus of 6 or 7 schools and the dissolving of the conference, or if they lose just 2 to 4 schools and back fill - mostly from the American. If it's the latter, the the American will be broken. Worst case scenario for the American is the B12 loses most of it's members but over a 2-3 year period back filling with as many as 5 AAC schools. If it's the former, the AAC might wind up with a Big 12 school, even perhaps West Virginia (yikes! I gotta think ESPN will almost force the ACC to take them in that scenario).

As a network I would not invest in that given the uncertainty.

If Temple and Houston are both 8-1, they rival Penn St.-Minnesota and Oregon-Arizona and are broadcast on at least ESPN.

Purdue-Minnesota and Oregon St.-Arizona don't make ESPN.

(05-20-2017 02:28 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Im hoping the AAC can become a true tweener like the WAC was.
The WAC had the Holiday Bowl for their champ to play a #2/3 team from the Big 10. The WAC was able to swap their Champion Bowl for the Cotton and Citrus in the 90's. The WAC had all their bowls vs "power schools". Copper & Freedom Bowls vs power teams and Hawaii Bowl vs power teams. The WAC was making 1/2 of the media money the "P conferences" were. Not 10 times less like today. When 8 WAC schools left to become the MWC in 1998, they earned 1 million a year per school. Compare that to the media deals of the PAC and ACC at the time. A True tweener.
Can the AAC become a tweener like the WAC was?

Understand something:

Back then the WAC has the Saturday Night Timeslot all to themselves in the 1990's due to geography(unless there was a monster OCC game on in the same slot). There were the home of the 'Saturday Night Shootout' and people watched, and that was before Boise's rise to power. There were never a tweener, but gave the illusion that they were because of the Bowls they had.

In the AAC's case, that will never happen because they are so unstable right now(no matter what the Fanboys say). That could change on the Basketball side, assuming they stay together long term and STOP trying to tell people something that they are not.

You guys need to give it up and keep your Dumpster Fire Threads on the AAC Forms

(05-20-2017 04:07 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I would say yes. But they need to do a few things to cement it.

1st, Get a name contract bowl with a P5 conference. Or create one.

2nd, Expand. The AAC has several quality program's. But they may be able to add to them. If Baylor gets booted from the Big 12. Then the AAC would be a good landing spot. They could also look to add Colorado state or New Mexico. If Baylor doesn't get booted. Then try and expand with CSU and UNM before current media contract expires.

3rd, Boost basketball. Which they have been doing with Wichita state addition.

First, why would New Mexico and CSU want to go to AAC. Secondly UNM is a lousy football program near the bottom of MWC, and CSU. is nothing to brag about. Go get BYU if you want, then you get the LGBT protests along with their arrogance and dirty play.


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(05-20-2017 02:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  As long as the CFP or similar exists there will be no tweeners.

There will be us and them.
Those who have a guaranteed slot in the elite and events and guaranteed major share of the post-season event revenue and those who have to compete for a slot and are guaranteed a smaller share.

In the context of D1 the entire G5 is tweener grouping.

Take the the CFP payouts. While the P5 is paid x3 what the G5 is paid, the G5 makes x20 what the FCS conferences are earning.

P5 competes for a playoff spot. G5 competes for a NYD bowl game. FCS competes for non-conference money games, always on the road at an FBS school.

If the G5 can get it's champs guaranteed in a NYD bowl and remove some of its weaker bowl offerings they start to get close to the P5 experience.

-New conference rules for historical 6-6 records for available slots.
-G5 champs in Holiday, Sun, Liberty, Gator
-New P5 bowl games in Chicago, St. Louis, Boston
-G5 dropping bowls in Boise, New Mexico, Montgomery, Ft. Worth

The G5 might have to suck up having only 4-5 bowl games but the ability to backfill slots in P5 bowls. What's happened is the quality of bowls at the G5 level has dropped because of over saturation and tighter qualifying rules can take care of some of that.

The AAC I feel has enough pull that within its region could get a nice bowl for its champ. Think gator bowl proximity to USF, UCF, ECU and how well Houston, UC, Memphis, Navy and Temple would travel for it.

MWC and Holiday with SDSU, Fresno, San Jose St the the traveling ability of Boise State.

CUSA/SBC they might be ok draws with the right host city. El Paso? Memphis? New Orleans? Mobile? Those are not bowl markets the P5 gets excited about.

MAC doesn't draw unless the bowl game is played in Detroit. They do bring competition though and can send a champ to backup the bowls.

The question is could some of these non-CFP but traditional major bowls get a boost in ratings by having a G5 champion over a #6, #7 place P5 team? I'd say probably.

"between something" would generally equate to relatively equidistant from one thing to another

being $25 million behind the P5 in conference per team revenues does not put another conference between the G5 and the P5 it puts them much much closer to the G5 and in fact only slightly above it at best

not having a NY6 bowl paying from $27.5 to $40 million per conference two out of every three years puts a conference right in tight with the G5 and nothing like the P5

having a single vote in the NCAA puts a conference right in tight with the G5 and not close to the P5

having 2 teams make the NCAA tournament which was the same as the WCC and 1 less than the A-10 while the P5 got 9,7,6,5 and 4 teams in and the Big East got 7 in does not put a conference a great deal above the G5 conferences that all got 1 team in

sure you were "double the next G5 conference", but you were also half of the lowest P5 conference and well below several others

having 1 team ranked at the end of the football season and significantly below another G5 program (WMU) while the P5 had at least 3 teams ranked per conference and another G5 also had a ranked team (SDSU) does not show any "distance" at all from the other G5 conferences nor does it show a conference coming close to the P5 it shows a conference being right solidly in line with the other G5 conferences

so when you look at the numbers over and over being at the top of a grouping does not mean that you have put a great distance from that grouping and it means even less so that you have managed to move meaningfully close to the next grouping so as to be clearly apart from one group and clearly close or closer to another

someone has to be at the top of the second group that does not mean they are close to the other group

(05-20-2017 02:59 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  As long as the CFP or similar exists there will be no tweeners.

There will be us and them.
Those who have a guaranteed slot in the elite and events and guaranteed major share of the post-season event revenue and those who have to compete for a slot and are guaranteed a smaller share.

Actually, I'd go further than that--there are those with a CFP level contract bowl and those without any major bowl of any kind.

When I say "no major bowl of any kind"---I mean nothing. No G5 has a high tier non-contract bowl with 3 million+ per team pay outs like the Cactus, Gator, or Alamo. Heck, no G5 even has a single non-CFP mid-tier bowl like the Sun Bowl, Music City, Texas, or Belk. In fact, the vast majority of all the G5 bowls are low end bowls with payout of less than a million per team (and most all with G5 ties are SUBSTANTIALLY less than a million per team).

So, to say there isnt room for a middle ground is not completely true. Yes---you either do or dont have a contract bowl. But there is a lot of ground between having no contract bowl and having nothing but the bottom tier bowls. Even in the bifucated P5/G5 bowl post season that the CFP has created---there is a middle ground where no G5 currently exists---but could. That said, I think its easier for a G5 conference to get a 5-7 million dollar per team TV deal than it is to gain access to a upper/mid tier non-CFP bowl. One is just a dollars and cents business proposition---the other requires overcoming college football elitism.

Again, I still believe the entire purpose of the "P6" stuff is product differentiation. Build value and interest by separating your widget from the other widgets in the minds of the general public. Accomplishing that effectively creates a "tweener" conference. They arent P5, but they are different from the other 4 remaining FBS conferences. They lie somewhere in between.

I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

(05-20-2017 06:23 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  I have a new idea here. Use a guaranteed top available AAC selection to get a series of bowls going.

Sun
Liberty
Gator

Each bowl would have the AAC #1/#2 selection in 2 of the 6 bowl cycle years.

In years where the bowls do not have an AAC team, they would get the highest rated teams from the MAC, MWC, CUSA, SBC in the CFP.

If the MWC was having a really big year with 2 ranked teams it could send for example SDSU to the Fiesta Bowl and a Top 20 Boise to the Sun Bowl.

Another scenario where NIU is ranked #10 and loses to Ohio in the MAC Championship, NIU would have a safe landing spot as a ranked team in the Liberty Bowl.

Could the G4 ride the coat tails of an all P5 lineup by the AAC as the AAC is the most attractive conference? Puts the AAC a little ahead of the G4 with an automatic slot but to be fair from a performance/rating/fan perspective they should be.

So the Sun will give up a P12 vs ACC team, the Liberty ups a B12 vs SEC or Gator gives up SEC vs B10/ACC for an AAC team