Are we starting to turn the corner or is this just a fluke? We have a chance at finishing with a winning season! Hopeful the conference move will spark some renewed vigor in the BSB program.

Glad you brought up baseball. I have a thought to throw out to you all.

We (TU) will evidently be playing a neutral site MBB game in Wichita next year versus K-State at the IBA. I assume it will be a split gate game since I assume neither team will be the designated home team. That might be a nice trend to start every year or so with them or KU imo.

So how about this: A baseball game in Tulsa at our downtown baseball stadium called OneOK Field (seats 8-10,000) between you guys and either OU or OSU? You could split the gate and it would improve your recruiting presence in a neighboring state. Also, its an easy trip against a quality team at a neutral venue and it can't hurt the rpi.

OU and OSU always migrate to play a "bedlam" game or two in Tulsa and OKC - usually to both minor pro venues. So if they can do it, you can too as a representative of the AAC.

Anyone want to start the ball rolling?

Just a thought.

(05-18-2017 08:54 PM)rabidTU2 Wrote:  Glad you brought up baseball. I have a thought to throw out to you all.

We (TU) will evidently be playing a neutral site MBB game in Wichita next year versus K-State at the IBA. I assume it will be a split gate game since I assume neither team will be the designated home team. That might be a nice trend to start every year or so with them or KU imo.

So how about this: A baseball game in Tulsa at our downtown baseball stadium called OneOK Field (seats 8-10,000) between you guys and either OU or OSU? You could split the gate and it would improve your recruiting presence in a neighboring state. Also, its an easy trip against a quality team at a neutral venue and it can't hurt the rpi.

OU and OSU always migrate to play a "bedlam" game or two in Tulsa and OKC - usually to both minor pro venues. So if they can do it, you can too as a representative of the AAC.

Anyone want to start the ball rolling?

Just a thought.

That's what I hear a lot around here lately. Only its about having Tulsa Football coming to play an OOC against KSU or KU at Cessna Stadium! The facility needs some TLC, but for us who have missed fall football for the last 30 years, I can't see why they wouldn't want to try something like this to help each other renew/spark interest in new programs. We'll bring baseball to Tulsa and you'll remind people what it was like to have football in Wichita. It's a great idea!

(05-17-2017 04:30 PM)Shockertropic Wrote:  Are we starting to turn the corner or is this just a fluke? We have a chance at finishing with a winning season! Hopeful the conference move will spark some renewed vigor in the BSB program.

Yeah, after the K-State game, the baseball team was at .500.
Then, they lose two out of three at Indiana State to finish the season.
Two games into the MVC tournament and they win the 4/5 game against SIU and then blow the perfect setup by losing to 8-seed Illinois State.
Now, they have an afternoon elimination game with Missouri State, which means the season's probably over.

The team's been all over the map all year. Great at home, but equally bad on the road. Good pitching and hitting (at times), but rarely in the same game.

If they can get everything together next year, maybe they can make some noise. If not, I wouldn't be surprised if Darron Boatright pays off the last two years of Todd Butler's contract and sends him packing.

(05-26-2017 03:50 AM)High5forWu Wrote:  Now, they have an afternoon elimination game with Missouri State, which means the season's probably over.

For anyone who still doesn't know, a 6-3 loss ended the season at 28-30.

But, with a young and improving roster, a good recruiting class could continue the trend to success. Mindful that baseball is a different beast then Basketball and Football, we could be back relevant in another year.

The key will be who replaces Walker. We need a GREAT coach and GOOD recruiter as Butler and Steele I think can attract talent also. I also feel we need to expand ataff to include a Director of Player Development. Staff position in charge of developing plans to make players better. The three headed monster is progressing. We are behind.

(06-15-2017 06:44 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  But, with a young and improving roster, a good recruiting class could continue the trend to success. Mindful that baseball is a different beast then Basketball and Football, we could be back relevant in another year.

The key will be who replaces Walker. We need a GREAT coach and GOOD recruiter as Butler and Steele I think can attract talent also. I also feel we need to expand ataff to include a Director of Player Development. Staff position in charge of developing plans to make players better. The three headed monster is progressing. We are behind.

You lost me again.

Improving roster? Who's improving?
Continue the trend to success? What trend are talking about? What is your definition of "success"?
Relevant in another year? With this current regime? LOL
Progressing? Wichita State?

Listen, I know you have Louisiana ties to Butler, but he is horrible. His track record as a head coach is horrible. His record at WSU is horrible. He can't even compete in the Missouri Valley. Stephenson NEVER had a losing season, and Butler has had 3 in 4 years. I'm not sure why you think change is occurring and what positives you're bringing out of a program and team that just looks fundamentally horrible, doesn't know how to hit or approach at-bats, walks batters to kingdom come, and has baseball IQ lower than most 8 year old softball players. If you think any of that equates to WSU being successful, well then you need bring Butler to LSU where he can be the coach in waiting there.

Butler and Eric Sexton have been monumental failures to WSU baseball. Butler should have been canned a year ago, definitely canned this year, and will fire up the excuse train next year. Boatright doesn't have the balls to fire his buddy and his sweet ass contract which compounds the entire problem.

AAC, we will be your whipping boy for the foreseeable future with this disaster in place.

(06-17-2017 05:21 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  

(06-15-2017 06:44 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  But, with a young and improving roster, a good recruiting class could continue the trend to success. Mindful that baseball is a different beast then Basketball and Football, we could be back relevant in another year.

The key will be who replaces Walker. We need a GREAT coach and GOOD recruiter as Butler and Steele I think can attract talent also. I also feel we need to expand ataff to include a Director of Player Development. Staff position in charge of developing plans to make players better. The three headed monster is progressing. We are behind.

You lost me again.

Improving roster? Who's improving?
Continue the trend to success? What trend are talking about? What is your definition of "success"?
Relevant in another year? With this current regime? LOL
Progressing? Wichita State?

Listen, I know you have Louisiana ties to Butler, but he is horrible. His track record as a head coach is horrible. His record at WSU is horrible. He can't even compete in the Missouri Valley. Stephenson NEVER had a losing season, and Butler has had 3 in 4 years. I'm not sure why you think change is occurring and what positives you're bringing out of a program and team that just looks fundamentally horrible, doesn't know how to hit or approach at-bats, walks batters to kingdom come, and has baseball IQ lower than most 8 year old softball players. If you think any of that equates to WSU being successful, well then you need bring Butler to LSU where he can be the coach in waiting there.

Butler and Eric Sexton have been monumental failures to WSU baseball. Butler should have been canned a year ago, definitely canned this year, and will fire up the excuse train next year. Boatright doesn't have the balls to fire his buddy and his sweet ass contract which compounds the entire problem.

AAC, we will be your whipping boy for the foreseeable future with this disaster in place.

I have met Todd Butler twice. He took time to chat with my boys, who are big Shocker fans. I have zero ties to him.

What I do have is an understanding that baseball is a different beast that it was in 1978. Gene had the chance to put a succession plan in place. He chose to put his foot down to his boss and it cost him his job. We are past Gene. Move on.

Last I checked, we have 3 former Freshman AA's on the roster, and now have two committed staff members to go out and recruit us players. We need one more guy to recruit Coast to Coast. Butler has also proven to be a good recuiter. Steele has as well. What we struggled to do the last couple years is develop the talent once it got here, and overcome injuries to our pitching staff.

But, I exoect that we will be whipping boys going forward as the fans have apparently decided that they don't want to support the program, and instead throw stones at the past.

Talking about what we shoukd be starts with the coaches, players, and facilities we have now. We are a sleeping giant right now. But it takes support and belief that we can do it, and we arent starting in a field with no backstop and a chain link fence.

(06-17-2017 05:43 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  What I do have is an understanding that baseball is a different beast that it was in 1978. Gene had the chance to put a succession plan in place. He chose to put his foot down to his boss and it cost him his job. We are past Gene. Move on.

We aren't past Gene. We're behind Gene. Way behind Gene. When a legend gets ousted like he was, the only thing to do is compare the program to what he did to what it is now. Even in Gene's "bad" years, he was still finishing in the top 1/3rd of the conference; he was still winning more than he was losing; he was still finishing in the Top 100/50 in the RPI; he was still going to NCAA Tournaments. How does Butler compare to Gene's "lean" years. The fanbase got spoiled and the administration was even worse. They threw out a guy that built the place up from nothing to nationally respected. They replaced him with a guy that was .500 at McNeese State and gave him a 7 year contract with an absolutely ridiculous buyout. What has Butler done in 4 years to make anyone believe that this is acceptable performance? He got clowned by the Missouri Freaking Valley.

And by the way, Gene's boss was a HORRIBLE boss. A detriment to the entire athletic department. His handling of the baseball situation was the proverbial nail in the coffin. He knew he was in over his head and exited stage left on his own accord.

(06-17-2017 05:43 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Last I checked, we have 3 former Freshman AA's on the roster

3 former AA's eh? How are they doing now? They should at least be AA's again a year later correct? How do 3 AA's lead to a 29-33 record?

(06-17-2017 05:43 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Butler has also proven to be a good recuiter.

How has this translated to wins and losses, you know, the thing that puts butts in the seats? He's really great at recruiting players over 6'1 and absolutely dogging anybody under that threshold. Great strategy.

(06-17-2017 05:43 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  and overcome injuries to our pitching staff

That sounds some weakass excuses. The injuries occurred in 2016. What happened in 2017? Nothing. They lowered their ERA from an embarrassing 7 by about a run, which is still horrible. How come Gene didn't get excused for recruiting misses by the draft in 2008 and 2009? Double standard much?

(06-17-2017 05:43 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  But, I exoect that we will be whipping boys going forward as the fans have apparently decided that they don't want to support the program, and instead throw stones at the past.

Are you seriously blaming this on the fans? They waited for Butler's talk to start walking. Well, after 3 losing seasons and being a non-competitor in the Valley, what do you freaking expect? Nobody wants to sit around and watch a team get drilled by another mediocre team with a coach thats getting paid 1/4 as much, while executing YMCA level fundamentals all at the same time. Boatright and Sexton are the ones that don't care about baseball. Boatright has said as much. He's either satisfied with losing seasons or doesn't want to admit what a ****** contract his predecessor gave the "savior" Butler when he arrived here with a stellar resume from McNeese State. Why should fans support a school that doesn't care? Eff that.

(06-17-2017 07:20 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  Are you seriously blaming this on the fans? They waited for Butler's talk to start walking. Well, after 3 losing seasons and being a non-competitor in the Valley, what do you freaking expect? Nobody wants to sit around and watch a team get drilled by another mediocre team with a coach thats getting paid 1/4 as much, while executing YMCA level fundamentals all at the same time. Boatright and Sexton are the ones that don't care about baseball. Boatright has said as much. He's either satisfied with losing seasons or doesn't want to admit what a ****** contract his predecessor gave the "savior" Butler when he arrived here with a stellar resume from McNeese State. Why should fans support a school that doesn't care? Eff that.

Agreed. Wichita State fans will come out in February when it's cold as the Devil's butthole to watch good baseball. They won't if the baseball is bad, because it's cold as the Devil's butthole.

Well, its not cold in Baton Rouge, really, ever. And the fans show up all the time. So, tell me again what Wichita State has to offer a kid from KC (Alex Lange) that would make him choose Wichita State over LSU? How many trips did Kemnitz take to see him? If they were so magical, why did he not come to Wichita?

I'm so tired of trying to explain how collwge baseball recruiting works. The fact is Gene and crew gave up on recruiting a long time ago. I have said many times that I dont know if Butler is the right guy, but it takes at least 6 years to do it. And don't even talk about how Gene went from no team to CWS in 4 years. Its a different world and a player of Phils caliber isnt walking through the door.

Maybe we don't.

My point was simply that we will have fan support if there's a team out there producing baseball worth watching. The next logical step from here is that Butler hasn't produced such a product.

You know me. I'm on the "Fire Butler" train hardcore. But in reality, he'll get the six years he needs to show improvement. And when you don't include Gene in the mix, this year WAS an improvement. And maybe the new conference will help Butler.

But if it doesn't and he still sucks on toast, the short term damage of another coaching search might just outweigh the long-term damage of being an AAC doormat as we slide into irrelevancy.

(06-18-2017 12:23 PM)fastbow Wrote:  Maybe we don't.

My point was simply that we will have fan support if there's a team out there producing baseball worth watching. The next logical step from here is that Butler hasn't produced such a product.

You know me. I'm on the "Fire Butler" train hardcore. But in reality, he'll get the six years he needs to show improvement. And when you don't include Gene in the mix, this year WAS an improvement. And maybe the new conference will help Butler.

But if it doesn't and he still sucks on toast, the short term damage of another coaching search might just outweigh the long-term damage of being an AAC doormat as we slide into irrelevancy.

And this is where we are. Butler has this year and next to improve. He must take a step each year. If not, he gone. He knows it. That is why Steele is here and why we are looking for the next hitting coach to hopefully develop the talent we have.

(06-18-2017 08:01 AM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Well, its not cold in Baton Rouge, really, ever. And the fans show up all the time. So, tell me again what Wichita State has to offer a kid from KC (Alex Lange) that would make him choose Wichita State over LSU? How many trips did Kemnitz take to see him? If they were so magical, why did he not come to Wichita?

I'm so tired of trying to explain how collwge baseball recruiting works. The fact is Gene and crew gave up on recruiting a long time ago. I have said many times that I dont know if Butler is the right guy, but it takes at least 6 years to do it. And don't even talk about how Gene went from no team to CWS in 4 years. Its a different world and a player of Phils caliber isnt walking through the door.

SIX years?
SIX?
As in the number after 5?

That's the biggest bunch of BS I've EVER heard. Butler has had losing seasons in every year except in his first year when he had all of Gene's and Brent's recruits. Hmmm, interesting huh?

Please tell me what high caliber talent Butler is pulling out of the backyard. He's already demonstrated the ability to pass on future Big XII players of the year in his backyard because he didn't meet the 6'1 required threshold.

How anybody could possibly be optimistic about Butler is unfathomable. Even the powerhouse McNeese State program didn't give him 6 years. LOL, 6 years. Are you freaking kidding me? SIX years?

What a joke of excuses.

(06-18-2017 02:35 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 08:01 AM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Well, its not cold in Baton Rouge, really, ever. And the fans show up all the time. So, tell me again what Wichita State has to offer a kid from KC (Alex Lange) that would make him choose Wichita State over LSU? How many trips did Kemnitz take to see him? If they were so magical, why did he not come to Wichita?

I'm so tired of trying to explain how collwge baseball recruiting works. The fact is Gene and crew gave up on recruiting a long time ago. I have said many times that I dont know if Butler is the right guy, but it takes at least 6 years to do it. And don't even talk about how Gene went from no team to CWS in 4 years. Its a different world and a player of Phils caliber isnt walking through the door.

SIX years?
SIX?
As in the number after 5?

That's the biggest bunch of BS I've EVER heard. Butler has had losing seasons in every year except in his first year when he had all of Gene's and Brent's recruits. Hmmm, interesting huh?

Please tell me what high caliber talent Butler is pulling out of the backyard. He's already demonstrated the ability to pass on future Big XII players of the year in his backyard because he didn't meet the 6'1 required threshold.

How anybody could possibly be optimistic about Butler is unfathomable. Even the powerhouse McNeese State program didn't give him 6 years. LOL, 6 years. Are you freaking kidding me? SIX years?

What a joke of excuses.

Yeah, good luck. Not going to waste my time with people who make things up and then presume them to be fact. That the roster has no one under 6'1 is a fact. That Butler did not recruit a player that won an award, is false.

Your reaches to find excuses to fire Butler and set the program back further is laughable.

(06-18-2017 04:36 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Yeah, good luck. Not going to waste my time with people who make things up and then presume them to be fact. That the roster has no one under 6'1 is a fact. That Butler did not recruit a player that won an award, is false.

Your reaches to find excuses to fire Butler and set the program back further is laughable.

Excuses to fire him? You mean like going 106-128 in 4 seasons at WSU? By averaging 5th place in the Mediocre Valley Conference? By not winning more than 1 game per year in the postseason tournament?

That's quite a list of acceptable accomplishments DSB. The fact that you are justifying that display of excellence is sickening. You've accepted mediocre and then some. Is it because he's from Louisiana or what? That's just downright embarrassing. Even the strongest of Butler supporters aren't even defending that. But you are? Wow... I'm at a loss. I don't think I've seen anyone as blind as you are with all of this. Unfreakingbelievable.

(06-18-2017 05:11 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 04:36 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Yeah, good luck. Not going to waste my time with people who make things up and then presume them to be fact. That the roster has no one under 6'1 is a fact. That Butler did not recruit a player that won an award, is false.

Your reaches to find excuses to fire Butler and set the program back further is laughable.

Excuses to fire him? You mean like going 106-128 in 4 seasons at WSU? By averaging 5th place in the Mediocre Valley Conference? By not winning more than 1 game per year in the postseason tournament?

That's quite a list of acceptable accomplishments DSB. The fact that you are justifying that display of excellence is sickening. You've accepted mediocre and then some. Is it because he's from Louisiana or what? That's just downright embarrassing. Even the strongest of Butler supporters aren't even defending that. But you are? Wow... I'm at a loss. I don't think I've seen anyone as blind as you are with all of this. Unfreakingbelievable.

He's from Louisiana? Didnt know that. I thought he was from Oklahoma. So are you the wife of Stephenson or another family member.

I hate to continue to say it, but I will say it again: I do not yet know if Todd Butler is going to lead Wichita State back to greatness.

I do know two things:

1. Gene Stephenson was not going to lead the Shockers back to the CWS. It has now been 21 years since our last visit to Omaha. TWENTY ONE!!

2. If Todd Butler fails, it will be a minimum of another 21 before we go back!

6 years ago I believed we were on the cusp of becoming great again. Then I had the opportunity to visit about 30 College Baseball Programs in the south and realized that as quick as we rose to the top, we had fallen behind. It's unfricken believeable that people think a Baseball program with 13 total scholarships can be righted over a short span of time. Have you seen the tenure of the coaches whose teams are in Omaha?

I wear my Shocker baseball hats down here proudly. I was in Omaha in '91 and '93. I do not accept that this is the beat we can be, but do accept the reality that faces ALL northern schools that do not have a coastal climate.

I'm kind of in the middle of where everyone is here. I get what DSB is saying and I know him to be a good and reasonable person. I also know that he cares about and knows more about college baseball than I ever will. However, I have zero faith in Butler at this point. I would love to see the program get back to some sort of relevance and hope it does, be it Butler or the next guy.

With that said, I do get quite tired of hearing people bring up Gene. He'd run his course and been given more time than he should have gotten because he was Gene. The program was declining under his watch and wasn't going to rise with his lack of ambition. His only concern was milking as many wins as possible to pass Soggy.

Butler obviously gets one more year and it is what it is. I don't know what the schedule looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a much weaker non-con schedule in order to get as many wins as possible knowing that the AAC is going to crush this roster. Will it be enough? I guess we'll find out next May after our season ends.

(06-19-2017 07:03 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I'm kind of in the middle of where everyone is here. I get what DSB is saying and I know him to be a good and reasonable person. I also know that he cares about and knows more about college baseball than I ever will. However, I have zero faith in Butler at this point. I would love to see the program get back to some sort of relevance and hope it does, be it Butler or the next guy.

With that said, I do get quite tired of hearing people bring up Gene. He'd run his course and been given more time than he should have gotten because he was Gene. The program was declining under his watch and wasn't going to rise with his lack of ambition. His only concern was milking as many wins as possible to pass Soggy.

Butler obviously gets one more year and it is what it is. I don't know what the schedule looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a much weaker non-con schedule in order to get as many wins as possible knowing that the AAC is going to crush this roster. Will it be enough? I guess we'll find out next May after our season ends.

And if he doesn't compete at a high level in the AAC, with promising growth from the younger players, it will be time to move on.

(06-18-2017 10:38 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 05:11 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  

(06-18-2017 04:36 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Yeah, good luck. Not going to waste my time with people who make things up and then presume them to be fact. That the roster has no one under 6'1 is a fact. That Butler did not recruit a player that won an award, is false.

Your reaches to find excuses to fire Butler and set the program back further is laughable.

Excuses to fire him? You mean like going 106-128 in 4 seasons at WSU? By averaging 5th place in the Mediocre Valley Conference? By not winning more than 1 game per year in the postseason tournament?

That's quite a list of acceptable accomplishments DSB. The fact that you are justifying that display of excellence is sickening. You've accepted mediocre and then some. Is it because he's from Louisiana or what? That's just downright embarrassing. Even the strongest of Butler supporters aren't even defending that. But you are? Wow... I'm at a loss. I don't think I've seen anyone as blind as you are with all of this. Unfreakingbelievable.

He's from Louisiana? Didnt know that. I thought he was from Oklahoma. So are you the wife of Stephenson or another family member.

I hate to continue to say it, but I will say it again: I do not yet know if Todd Butler is going to lead Wichita State back to greatness.

I do know two things:

1. Gene Stephenson was not going to lead the Shockers back to the CWS. It has now been 21 years since our last visit to Omaha. TWENTY ONE!!

2. If Todd Butler fails, it will be a minimum of another 21 before we go back!

6 years ago I believed we were on the cusp of becoming great again. Then I had the opportunity to visit about 30 College Baseball Programs in the south and realized that as quick as we rose to the top, we had fallen behind. It's unfricken believeable that people think a Baseball program with 13 total scholarships can be righted over a short span of time. Have you seen the tenure of the coaches whose teams are in Omaha?

I wear my Shocker baseball hats down here proudly. I was in Omaha in '91 and '93. I do not accept that this is the beat we can be, but do accept the reality that faces ALL northern schools that do not have a coastal climate.

You think I'm a relative of Gene? Ha. I think it's for certain though that you're a relative of Butler. Nobody else would give a coach 6 years and defend below .500 baseball to the point you are doing so. And then blaming the fans for not showing up to watch a piss poor excuse of a baseball program peeing all over the field.

Back-to-back Super Regionals is pretty damn good for where college baseball is at now. Basically back-to-back Sweet 16 appearances. And you're calling those failures because they didn't get to Omaha? Gee, what has Todd Butler gotten us? 5th place Valley finishes? It's not even about Gene. It's about Butler. You keep avoiding Butler and are focussed on Gene. Gene was only brought up by me to draw a comparison between what we have now that you have unfathomably accepted and what was unacceptable under Gene.

Are you somehow insinuating Todd Butler is the savior for WSU baseball? You think if Butler fails, WSU is doomed and sent into another 21 year tizzy? If you think WSU baseball started sucking in 1996, then you're full of it. Completely. Let's compare post-1996 Gene (you know since our last CWS because apparently that's the only thing acceptable) and the Butler era. Let me know you're findings.

So now it's Wichita State's problem but not Todd Butler's? Are you kidding me? It's not like he's improving or just missing out on NCAA Tournaments. He's compiled the 3 WORST seasons in WSU history. All below .500, one embarrassingly bad at 21-39. His only above .500 year, which was only by 3 games btw, was his first year with Gene's "crappy leftovers". Gene's "bad" years which you were bitching about were 15 games better than anything Butler has produced. Gene had Top 50 RPI teams at the end; Butler is averaging an RPI somewhere north of 130.

And you think TODD FREAKING BUTLER is the answer and needs SIX years to make a case?

WOW