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Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
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Downtown Shocker Brown Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
Well, its not cold in Baton Rouge, really, ever. And the fans show up all the time. So, tell me again what Wichita State has to offer a kid from KC (Alex Lange) that would make him choose Wichita State over LSU? How many trips did Kemnitz take to see him? If they were so magical, why did he not come to Wichita?

I'm so tired of trying to explain how collwge baseball recruiting works. The fact is Gene and crew gave up on recruiting a long time ago. I have said many times that I dont know if Butler is the right guy, but it takes at least 6 years to do it. And don't even talk about how Gene went from no team to CWS in 4 years. Its a different world and a player of Phils caliber isnt walking through the door.
06-18-2017 08:01 AM
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fastbow Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
Maybe we don't.

My point was simply that we will have fan support if there's a team out there producing baseball worth watching. The next logical step from here is that Butler hasn't produced such a product.

You know me. I'm on the "Fire Butler" train hardcore. But in reality, he'll get the six years he needs to show improvement. And when you don't include Gene in the mix, this year WAS an improvement. And maybe the new conference will help Butler.

But if it doesn't and he still sucks on toast, the short term damage of another coaching search might just outweigh the long-term damage of being an AAC doormat as we slide into irrelevancy.
06-18-2017 12:23 PM
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Downtown Shocker Brown Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
(06-18-2017 12:23 PM)fastbow Wrote:  Maybe we don't.

My point was simply that we will have fan support if there's a team out there producing baseball worth watching. The next logical step from here is that Butler hasn't produced such a product.

You know me. I'm on the "Fire Butler" train hardcore. But in reality, he'll get the six years he needs to show improvement. And when you don't include Gene in the mix, this year WAS an improvement. And maybe the new conference will help Butler.

But if it doesn't and he still sucks on toast, the short term damage of another coaching search might just outweigh the long-term damage of being an AAC doormat as we slide into irrelevancy.

And this is where we are. Butler has this year and next to improve. He must take a step each year. If not, he gone. He knows it. That is why Steele is here and why we are looking for the next hitting coach to hopefully develop the talent we have.
06-18-2017 12:32 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
(06-18-2017 08:01 AM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Well, its not cold in Baton Rouge, really, ever. And the fans show up all the time. So, tell me again what Wichita State has to offer a kid from KC (Alex Lange) that would make him choose Wichita State over LSU? How many trips did Kemnitz take to see him? If they were so magical, why did he not come to Wichita?

I'm so tired of trying to explain how collwge baseball recruiting works. The fact is Gene and crew gave up on recruiting a long time ago. I have said many times that I dont know if Butler is the right guy, but it takes at least 6 years to do it. And don't even talk about how Gene went from no team to CWS in 4 years. Its a different world and a player of Phils caliber isnt walking through the door.

SIX years?
SIX?
As in the number after 5? 03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao

That's the biggest bunch of BS I've EVER heard. Butler has had losing seasons in every year except in his first year when he had all of Gene's and Brent's recruits. Hmmm, interesting huh?

Please tell me what high caliber talent Butler is pulling out of the backyard. He's already demonstrated the ability to pass on future Big XII players of the year in his backyard because he didn't meet the 6'1 required threshold.

How anybody could possibly be optimistic about Butler is unfathomable. Even the powerhouse McNeese State program didn't give him 6 years. LOL, 6 years. Are you freaking kidding me? SIX years?

What a joke of excuses.
06-18-2017 02:35 PM
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Downtown Shocker Brown Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
(06-18-2017 02:35 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 08:01 AM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Well, its not cold in Baton Rouge, really, ever. And the fans show up all the time. So, tell me again what Wichita State has to offer a kid from KC (Alex Lange) that would make him choose Wichita State over LSU? How many trips did Kemnitz take to see him? If they were so magical, why did he not come to Wichita?

I'm so tired of trying to explain how collwge baseball recruiting works. The fact is Gene and crew gave up on recruiting a long time ago. I have said many times that I dont know if Butler is the right guy, but it takes at least 6 years to do it. And don't even talk about how Gene went from no team to CWS in 4 years. Its a different world and a player of Phils caliber isnt walking through the door.

SIX years?
SIX?
As in the number after 5? 03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao

That's the biggest bunch of BS I've EVER heard. Butler has had losing seasons in every year except in his first year when he had all of Gene's and Brent's recruits. Hmmm, interesting huh?

Please tell me what high caliber talent Butler is pulling out of the backyard. He's already demonstrated the ability to pass on future Big XII players of the year in his backyard because he didn't meet the 6'1 required threshold.

How anybody could possibly be optimistic about Butler is unfathomable. Even the powerhouse McNeese State program didn't give him 6 years. LOL, 6 years. Are you freaking kidding me? SIX years?

What a joke of excuses.

Yeah, good luck. Not going to waste my time with people who make things up and then presume them to be fact. That the roster has no one under 6'1 is a fact. That Butler did not recruit a player that won an award, is false.

Your reaches to find excuses to fire Butler and set the program back further is laughable.
06-18-2017 04:36 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
(06-18-2017 04:36 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Yeah, good luck. Not going to waste my time with people who make things up and then presume them to be fact. That the roster has no one under 6'1 is a fact. That Butler did not recruit a player that won an award, is false.

Your reaches to find excuses to fire Butler and set the program back further is laughable.

Excuses to fire him? You mean like going 106-128 in 4 seasons at WSU? By averaging 5th place in the Mediocre Valley Conference? By not winning more than 1 game per year in the postseason tournament?

That's quite a list of acceptable accomplishments DSB. The fact that you are justifying that display of excellence is sickening. You've accepted mediocre and then some. Is it because he's from Louisiana or what? That's just downright embarrassing. Even the strongest of Butler supporters aren't even defending that. But you are? Wow... I'm at a loss. I don't think I've seen anyone as blind as you are with all of this. Unfreakingbelievable.
(This post was last modified: 06-18-2017 05:12 PM by ShockerFever.)
06-18-2017 05:11 PM
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Downtown Shocker Brown Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
(06-18-2017 05:11 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 04:36 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Yeah, good luck. Not going to waste my time with people who make things up and then presume them to be fact. That the roster has no one under 6'1 is a fact. That Butler did not recruit a player that won an award, is false.

Your reaches to find excuses to fire Butler and set the program back further is laughable.

Excuses to fire him? You mean like going 106-128 in 4 seasons at WSU? By averaging 5th place in the Mediocre Valley Conference? By not winning more than 1 game per year in the postseason tournament?

That's quite a list of acceptable accomplishments DSB. The fact that you are justifying that display of excellence is sickening. You've accepted mediocre and then some. Is it because he's from Louisiana or what? That's just downright embarrassing. Even the strongest of Butler supporters aren't even defending that. But you are? Wow... I'm at a loss. I don't think I've seen anyone as blind as you are with all of this. Unfreakingbelievable.

He's from Louisiana? Didnt know that. I thought he was from Oklahoma. So are you the wife of Stephenson or another family member.

I hate to continue to say it, but I will say it again: I do not yet know if Todd Butler is going to lead Wichita State back to greatness.

I do know two things:

1. Gene Stephenson was not going to lead the Shockers back to the CWS. It has now been 21 years since our last visit to Omaha. TWENTY ONE!!

2. If Todd Butler fails, it will be a minimum of another 21 before we go back!

6 years ago I believed we were on the cusp of becoming great again. Then I had the opportunity to visit about 30 College Baseball Programs in the south and realized that as quick as we rose to the top, we had fallen behind. It's unfricken believeable that people think a Baseball program with 13 total scholarships can be righted over a short span of time. Have you seen the tenure of the coaches whose teams are in Omaha?

I wear my Shocker baseball hats down here proudly. I was in Omaha in '91 and '93. I do not accept that this is the beat we can be, but do accept the reality that faces ALL northern schools that do not have a coastal climate.
06-18-2017 10:38 PM
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SubGod22 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
I'm kind of in the middle of where everyone is here. I get what DSB is saying and I know him to be a good and reasonable person. I also know that he cares about and knows more about college baseball than I ever will. However, I have zero faith in Butler at this point. I would love to see the program get back to some sort of relevance and hope it does, be it Butler or the next guy.

With that said, I do get quite tired of hearing people bring up Gene. He'd run his course and been given more time than he should have gotten because he was Gene. The program was declining under his watch and wasn't going to rise with his lack of ambition. His only concern was milking as many wins as possible to pass Soggy.

Butler obviously gets one more year and it is what it is. I don't know what the schedule looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a much weaker non-con schedule in order to get as many wins as possible knowing that the AAC is going to crush this roster. Will it be enough? I guess we'll find out next May after our season ends.
06-19-2017 07:03 PM
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Downtown Shocker Brown Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
(06-19-2017 07:03 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I'm kind of in the middle of where everyone is here. I get what DSB is saying and I know him to be a good and reasonable person. I also know that he cares about and knows more about college baseball than I ever will. However, I have zero faith in Butler at this point. I would love to see the program get back to some sort of relevance and hope it does, be it Butler or the next guy.

With that said, I do get quite tired of hearing people bring up Gene. He'd run his course and been given more time than he should have gotten because he was Gene. The program was declining under his watch and wasn't going to rise with his lack of ambition. His only concern was milking as many wins as possible to pass Soggy.

Butler obviously gets one more year and it is what it is. I don't know what the schedule looks like, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has a much weaker non-con schedule in order to get as many wins as possible knowing that the AAC is going to crush this roster. Will it be enough? I guess we'll find out next May after our season ends.

And if he doesn't compete at a high level in the AAC, with promising growth from the younger players, it will be time to move on.
06-19-2017 07:07 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Am I seeing this right? Baseball @ .500?
(06-18-2017 10:38 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 05:11 PM)WSUbballer Wrote:  
(06-18-2017 04:36 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Yeah, good luck. Not going to waste my time with people who make things up and then presume them to be fact. That the roster has no one under 6'1 is a fact. That Butler did not recruit a player that won an award, is false.

Your reaches to find excuses to fire Butler and set the program back further is laughable.

Excuses to fire him? You mean like going 106-128 in 4 seasons at WSU? By averaging 5th place in the Mediocre Valley Conference? By not winning more than 1 game per year in the postseason tournament?

That's quite a list of acceptable accomplishments DSB. The fact that you are justifying that display of excellence is sickening. You've accepted mediocre and then some. Is it because he's from Louisiana or what? That's just downright embarrassing. Even the strongest of Butler supporters aren't even defending that. But you are? Wow... I'm at a loss. I don't think I've seen anyone as blind as you are with all of this. Unfreakingbelievable.

He's from Louisiana? Didnt know that. I thought he was from Oklahoma. So are you the wife of Stephenson or another family member.

I hate to continue to say it, but I will say it again: I do not yet know if Todd Butler is going to lead Wichita State back to greatness.

I do know two things:

1. Gene Stephenson was not going to lead the Shockers back to the CWS. It has now been 21 years since our last visit to Omaha. TWENTY ONE!!

2. If Todd Butler fails, it will be a minimum of another 21 before we go back!

6 years ago I believed we were on the cusp of becoming great again. Then I had the opportunity to visit about 30 College Baseball Programs in the south and realized that as quick as we rose to the top, we had fallen behind. It's unfricken believeable that people think a Baseball program with 13 total scholarships can be righted over a short span of time. Have you seen the tenure of the coaches whose teams are in Omaha?

I wear my Shocker baseball hats down here proudly. I was in Omaha in '91 and '93. I do not accept that this is the beat we can be, but do accept the reality that faces ALL northern schools that do not have a coastal climate.

You think I'm a relative of Gene? Ha. I think it's for certain though that you're a relative of Butler. Nobody else would give a coach 6 years and defend below .500 baseball to the point you are doing so. And then blaming the fans for not showing up to watch a piss poor excuse of a baseball program peeing all over the field.

Back-to-back Super Regionals is pretty damn good for where college baseball is at now. Basically back-to-back Sweet 16 appearances. And you're calling those failures because they didn't get to Omaha? Gee, what has Todd Butler gotten us? 5th place Valley finishes? It's not even about Gene. It's about Butler. You keep avoiding Butler and are focussed on Gene. Gene was only brought up by me to draw a comparison between what we have now that you have unfathomably accepted and what was unacceptable under Gene.

Are you somehow insinuating Todd Butler is the savior for WSU baseball? You think if Butler fails, WSU is doomed and sent into another 21 year tizzy? If you think WSU baseball started sucking in 1996, then you're full of it. Completely. Let's compare post-1996 Gene (you know since our last CWS because apparently that's the only thing acceptable) and the Butler era. Let me know you're findings.

So now it's Wichita State's problem but not Todd Butler's? Are you kidding me? It's not like he's improving or just missing out on NCAA Tournaments. He's compiled the 3 WORST seasons in WSU history. All below .500, one embarrassingly bad at 21-39. His only above .500 year, which was only by 3 games btw, was his first year with Gene's "crappy leftovers". Gene's "bad" years which you were bitching about were 15 games better than anything Butler has produced. Gene had Top 50 RPI teams at the end; Butler is averaging an RPI somewhere north of 130.

And you think TODD FREAKING BUTLER is the answer and needs SIX years to make a case?

WOW
(This post was last modified: 06-19-2017 07:40 PM by ShockerFever.)
06-19-2017 07:27 PM
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