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I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #61
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 05:15 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 02:33 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 07:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm no legal expert but if their endowment came from funds that they themselves generated and not from outside donors as is typical, then there's probably no real restrictions on the money (maybe minimal). So what makes it any different than having the cash in operating funds (invested or not but as has been mentioned it be stupid to not having it earn something)? It seems they just decided to announce they had a billion dollars. Or maybe more to the point a billion dollars that they no longer needed to fund current capital projects.

Endowment implies the money was donated and for a specific purpose. I guess Liberty could put their own money in the endowment but once it is in there I don't think they can use it for another purpose. If the endowment is just a general fund that they can use for what ever they want, it is not really an endowment to begin with.

Personally, I would ask for my money back if I found out they were using money I donated for a specific purpose for something other than that purpose.


just because money is in an endowment that does not mean there are any federal or state restrictions on that money because it is in an "endowment"

donors can place restrictions such as the department, professorship, scholarships ect that the proceeds are used for or the amount of proceeds paid out from their donation, but even then in the fine print of most of the paperwork it will make clear that at some point and time in the future of the BOR or Trustees vote on it the money can be shifted and used for some other purpose

if you had an endowment for the engineering of carriages and the proper care for the horses that pull them well that program is long gone

if you had a dairy science program with an endowment or a nuclear engineering program and you get rid of that program because of cost, declining demand or lack of job prospects the money going to support that will go elsewhere


and a university could spend everything in the endowment in a single year if they wanted to and the BOR or Trustees approved it provided there are no restrictions on the payouts made by the donors

even then if there is an emergency or some other issue that demands that type of drastic action it could happen.......that would be like the women
's university that was in NC (or wherever it was) and they were shutting down the school because it was simply not viable

they were going to shut it down and spend the endowment to nothing or as much as needed to graduate the last classes then they were going to do something else with whatever was left over (I think they were going to endow scholarships for female students from the area to other schools)

that university I believe ended up staying open though so they did not start spending the corpus

but because something is termed a "endowment" that does not place many (if any) federal or state restrictions on that money

It depends on the language of the Gift. NAU has money sitting (for decades) growing that was earmarked for Men's Golf (not a big gift, but it is there). NAU has three choices:
1) Let it sit
2) Start Men's Golf and use it for that
3) Give it back to original donor/heirs

The money is not NAU's to say, well, no men's golf, we'll use it for band scholarships.
05-18-2017 05:27 PM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #62
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 05:27 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 05:15 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 02:33 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 07:35 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I'm no legal expert but if their endowment came from funds that they themselves generated and not from outside donors as is typical, then there's probably no real restrictions on the money (maybe minimal). So what makes it any different than having the cash in operating funds (invested or not but as has been mentioned it be stupid to not having it earn something)? It seems they just decided to announce they had a billion dollars. Or maybe more to the point a billion dollars that they no longer needed to fund current capital projects.

Endowment implies the money was donated and for a specific purpose. I guess Liberty could put their own money in the endowment but once it is in there I don't think they can use it for another purpose. If the endowment is just a general fund that they can use for what ever they want, it is not really an endowment to begin with.

Personally, I would ask for my money back if I found out they were using money I donated for a specific purpose for something other than that purpose.


just because money is in an endowment that does not mean there are any federal or state restrictions on that money because it is in an "endowment"

donors can place restrictions such as the department, professorship, scholarships ect that the proceeds are used for or the amount of proceeds paid out from their donation, but even then in the fine print of most of the paperwork it will make clear that at some point and time in the future of the BOR or Trustees vote on it the money can be shifted and used for some other purpose

if you had an endowment for the engineering of carriages and the proper care for the horses that pull them well that program is long gone

if you had a dairy science program with an endowment or a nuclear engineering program and you get rid of that program because of cost, declining demand or lack of job prospects the money going to support that will go elsewhere


and a university could spend everything in the endowment in a single year if they wanted to and the BOR or Trustees approved it provided there are no restrictions on the payouts made by the donors

even then if there is an emergency or some other issue that demands that type of drastic action it could happen.......that would be like the women
's university that was in NC (or wherever it was) and they were shutting down the school because it was simply not viable

they were going to shut it down and spend the endowment to nothing or as much as needed to graduate the last classes then they were going to do something else with whatever was left over (I think they were going to endow scholarships for female students from the area to other schools)

that university I believe ended up staying open though so they did not start spending the corpus

but because something is termed a "endowment" that does not place many (if any) federal or state restrictions on that money

It depends on the language of the Gift. NAU has money sitting (for decades) growing that was earmarked for Men's Golf (not a big gift, but it is there). NAU has three choices:
1) Let it sit
2) Start Men's Golf and use it for that
3) Give it back to original donor/heirs

The money is not NAU's to say, well, no men's golf, we'll use it for band scholarships.

it also depends just as much on the language of the contract for the donation

in the case of something like STARTING an athletics (GOLF) program there is a chance the university would take the money with a contingency that either a golf (or whatever athletics program) is started or the money is returned

in the case of money for academics and more so in the case of money that has been invested and has been endowing programs for a long time and those programs are folded or done away with it would be extremely rare that a university would have an agreement to then return that money

in your case you are talking about an athletics program and talking about starting something NEW

there could be cases where a NEW academic program was endowed like a whorled peas degree or something similar with a requirement to "start the degree or return the money" and the university either decides they cannot attract quality faculty, enough faculty or enough students and they decide to not start the program......but if they take the money and start the program and the 10 years down the road decide it sucks it would be highly unlikely that there was not language saying the money was transferable to other uses with BOR/Trustee approval

in the case you are talking about the money was most likely never really "NIU's money" even if they are investing it and even if they are able to spend some of the proceeds of that investment (which would be rare I would think because I would imagine the proceeds would be required to be built up to further fund a golf program in the future which might be part of why they are sitting on the cash)......but with rare exceptions in most cases the money once it becomes fully "the universities money" the donor is going to sign a standard donation legal form that says in the future if things change the money can be used for something else.......like of football head injuries force colleges to cancel the sport.....I would doubt that most any university would be giving back tons of football related donations
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2017 05:42 PM by TodgeRodge.)
05-18-2017 05:40 PM
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DFW HOYA Offline
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Post: #63
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 02:44 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  "As of June, Liberty officials said the school had about $860 million in net assets and expects that number to exceed $1 billion by year's end — a major milestone for the university.

"We've grown so fast that we can't spend it fast enough," LU Chancellor Jerry Falwell Jr. said.

Net assets does not equal endowment.
05-18-2017 07:32 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #64
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-16-2017 11:07 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  I am green with envy With Liberty's endowment, they could buy 12 games a year at one million dollars each for the next 83 years (that's right the next century 2100).

They will thrive and survive. Time is on their side. And I want to play them every year. I want to beat the stuffings out of them and them beat the stuffings out of us. It will be the saints against the "Greedy Green Gold Niners."

The title of this thread just writes its own jokes...
05-18-2017 07:49 PM
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Post: #65
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-16-2017 11:07 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  I am green with envy With Liberty's endowment, they could buy 12 games a year at one million dollars each for the next 83 years (that's right the next century 2100).

They will thrive and survive. Time is on their side. And I want to play them every year. I want to beat the stuffings out of them and them beat the stuffings out of us. It will be the saints against the "Greedy Green Gold Niners."
They are rich like Trump...

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05-18-2017 08:21 PM
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mturn017 Online
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Post: #66
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 07:49 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 11:07 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  I am green with envy With Liberty's endowment, they could buy 12 games a year at one million dollars each for the next 83 years (that's right the next century 2100).

They will thrive and survive. Time is on their side. And I want to play them every year. I want to beat the stuffings out of them and them beat the stuffings out of us. It will be the saints against the "Greedy Green Gold Niners."

The title of this thread just writes its own jokes...

Yeah, I don't know why people get so hung up in the size of the endowment, it's more in what you do with it
05-18-2017 08:55 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-18-2017 08:55 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 07:49 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 11:07 PM)Rabonchild Wrote:  I am green with envy With Liberty's endowment, they could buy 12 games a year at one million dollars each for the next 83 years (that's right the next century 2100).

They will thrive and survive. Time is on their side. And I want to play them every year. I want to beat the stuffings out of them and them beat the stuffings out of us. It will be the saints against the "Greedy Green Gold Niners."

The title of this thread just writes its own jokes...

Yeah, I don't know why people get so hung up in the size of the endowment, it's more in what you do with it

Hahahaha
05-18-2017 09:03 PM
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FrancisDrake Offline
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Post: #68
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
Liberty, to this point, has played its hand extremely well. They've milked the online education era for quite a nice sum. 2022 isn't so far off that they couldn't maintain their numbers and hit their goal of 3 billion. Money talks, they'll be able to switch gears, pay more for faculty, recruit and retain better faculty and ultimately their rankings will rise. They have a sizable niche to appeal too, but what will really define their athletic tale is whether or not they can harness the protestant viewers and or their 100k online students for viewership. Viewership gives Notre Dame its leverage, same for BYU on a smaller scale. Its no small task, but again, to this point the plan has paid off. Literally.
05-19-2017 10:13 AM
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tigerjamesc Offline
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Post: #69
RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
Love the, or hate them, they've been very smart and are doing what no other school has in over 50 years...
05-19-2017 11:54 AM
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panama Offline
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RE: I'm Envious of Liberty's Endowment
(05-19-2017 11:54 AM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  Love the, or hate them, they've been very smart and are doing what no other school has in over 50 years...
Well what they are doing is spending at will without much internal oversight. There not any public not likely many private schools whose boards would allow that kind of spend just for football even having the money available to do so.

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05-19-2017 01:09 PM
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