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Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
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wrcwolf Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
(05-14-2017 10:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 10:03 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:28 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 07:09 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  Not a smart move by B1G to announce a huge bonus to its executive. I think he's earned $20M, but to announce it like this sounds like a one time payment when it's supposedly going to be paid out over numerous years.

Student-athletes should be pissed.

If they want to start a rallying call, this is it.

Student athletes should be pissed?? How about regular students who have to take out loans to subsidize this ****?! Don't feel to bad for the athletes. My daughter between stipend payments and housing checks left college with 10K in the bank. Meanwhile many fellow students left with 100K in loans. If athletes manage money well they can leave with a nice bit of cash. My guess is the player complaining is one of the many football players that blow their money.

I understand this, but total amount isn't relevant. It's about whether you are getting paid in accordance with your market value. LeBron James might make over $20 million per year, but he's actually underpaid (as he would be making even more in a non-salary cap system), whereas there can be people making minimum wage that are overpaid relative to their market value. There are studies showing that the value of a 5-star recruit is close to $500,000 per year for a school, yet they're clearly not getting paid anywhere near that amount (at least above the board). The reason why shady boosters that pay players under the table exist is because everyone knows the true market value of these those players (and it exceeds the value of their scholarships).

There are really only a handful of players who are worth what they are getting now in terms of scholarship, coaching, training and exposure.

Wouldn't be surprised if there is a strike at some point and it marks the beginning of the end for college sports.
Bullet, it wouldn't be the end of college sports. It would be the beginning of the return to student athletes.

Curious, JR, what time period were there true student athletes?

Since the beginning of collegiate sports, Harvard/Yale regatta, those running them have profited through commercialization.

Nothing is new, just larger amounts of cash today.
05-14-2017 12:54 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
(05-14-2017 10:07 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:28 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 07:09 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  Not a smart move by B1G to announce a huge bonus to its executive. I think he's earned $20M, but to announce it like this sounds like a one time payment when it's supposedly going to be paid out over numerous years.

Student-athletes should be pissed.

If they want to start a rallying call, this is it.

Student athletes should be pissed?? How about regular students who have to take out loans to subsidize this ****?! Don't feel to bad for the athletes. My daughter between stipend payments and housing checks left college with 10K in the bank. Meanwhile many fellow students left with 100K in loans. If athletes manage money well they can leave with a nice bit of cash. My guess is the player complaining is one of the many football players that blow their money.

I understand this, but total amount isn't relevant. It's about whether you are getting paid in accordance with your market value. LeBron James might make over $20 million per year, but he's actually underpaid (as he would be making even more in a non-salary cap system), whereas there can be people making minimum wage that are overpaid relative to their market value. There are studies showing that the value of a 5-star recruit is close to $500,000 per year for a school, yet they're clearly not getting paid anywhere near that amount (at least above the board). The reason why shady boosters that pay players under the table exist is because everyone knows the true market value of these those players (and it exceeds the value of their scholarships).

Exactly.

The last pick in the first round of the NFL draft gets a "rookie" contract worth about $9 million. No one can honestly argue that a player who is worth that much in April was only worth the price of a college scholarship in December.

The college teams reap the benefit of paying (almost) nothing for elite athletes whose market value is in the millions. The teams rake in the money while giving none of it to the athletes whose performances generate that money. That's why they have so much cash floating around that they can easily pay so many millions to coaches and commissioners.

It's not a lot unlike the music industry back in the day, or even still in the major studios. Artists make money off the touring, the album sales are all studio. Studios make the case all the investment and expenses are costs that are risks totally assumed by them. And it was worse when studios owned the rights to the songs, and the artists still had to give money back to the label to have the right to perform the songs.

It's explainable to some, theft to others.

I find it ironic this comes from a Michigan kid toward the commissioner. The kid should have a talk with Richard Sherman about the kind of stand up guy the kid is playing for. Total dirtbag.

Until athletic scholarships are universally guaranteed across D1 or all become like D3 or Ivy-level grant in aid bundles, I'll always side with the kids. And I know you get kids who have no business being in these schools getting scholarships whereas others get decades of debt; don't care. The schools assume the risk...and this is one possible outcome. So, own it. Get better at it. Make a mint off people, pay wheelbarrow-loads of cash to some, then expect people to complain about this. Or, be like me...contact your local rep and ask them why these schools can't pay taxes?
05-14-2017 01:27 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
(05-14-2017 12:54 PM)wrcwolf Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 10:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 10:03 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:28 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  Student athletes should be pissed?? How about regular students who have to take out loans to subsidize this ****?! Don't feel to bad for the athletes. My daughter between stipend payments and housing checks left college with 10K in the bank. Meanwhile many fellow students left with 100K in loans. If athletes manage money well they can leave with a nice bit of cash. My guess is the player complaining is one of the many football players that blow their money.

I understand this, but total amount isn't relevant. It's about whether you are getting paid in accordance with your market value. LeBron James might make over $20 million per year, but he's actually underpaid (as he would be making even more in a non-salary cap system), whereas there can be people making minimum wage that are overpaid relative to their market value. There are studies showing that the value of a 5-star recruit is close to $500,000 per year for a school, yet they're clearly not getting paid anywhere near that amount (at least above the board). The reason why shady boosters that pay players under the table exist is because everyone knows the true market value of these those players (and it exceeds the value of their scholarships).

There are really only a handful of players who are worth what they are getting now in terms of scholarship, coaching, training and exposure.

Wouldn't be surprised if there is a strike at some point and it marks the beginning of the end for college sports.
Bullet, it wouldn't be the end of college sports. It would be the beginning of the return to student athletes.

Curious, JR, what time period were there true student athletes?

Since the beginning of collegiate sports, Harvard/Yale regatta, those running them have profited through commercialization.

Nothing is new, just larger amounts of cash today.

What you say is true. What I am referring to were the days when they actually had to take real classes and actually had to pass them. But even that was never pure which is why we have the committee on enforcement in the first place. Baseball, Softball, Soccer, Lacrosse, and other such sports still have the feel of student athletes about them. Basketball and Football haven't even been there in my lifetime, but even if by degree they were much more preferable in the 50's & 60's and certainly not because of segregation, but because there was still a sense of respect for the campus and other students, a sense of loyalty to the school when they left, and there was fairly strict discipline at most schools and it began with the coaches, not the administration.

But you are correct. It's very much like the old joke where the rich guy asked a pretty young woman if she would sleep with him for a million dollars. She thought for a while and said yes. He then offered her 100 dollars and she responded with what do you think I am. He said we have established that, now we are just haggling over the price. College athletics may be among the last vestiges of indentured servitude left in this country. I have long felt that student loans might be another.03-wink
05-14-2017 01:43 PM
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BigHouston Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
(05-13-2017 07:03 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Jim Delany has kids to feed.

When you've got kids to feed $20 million is critical.

Don't forget the dog
05-14-2017 02:29 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
(05-14-2017 10:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 10:03 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:28 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 07:09 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  Not a smart move by B1G to announce a huge bonus to its executive. I think he's earned $20M, but to announce it like this sounds like a one time payment when it's supposedly going to be paid out over numerous years.

Student-athletes should be pissed.

If they want to start a rallying call, this is it.

Student athletes should be pissed?? How about regular students who have to take out loans to subsidize this ****?! Don't feel to bad for the athletes. My daughter between stipend payments and housing checks left college with 10K in the bank. Meanwhile many fellow students left with 100K in loans. If athletes manage money well they can leave with a nice bit of cash. My guess is the player complaining is one of the many football players that blow their money.

I understand this, but total amount isn't relevant. It's about whether you are getting paid in accordance with your market value. LeBron James might make over $20 million per year, but he's actually underpaid (as he would be making even more in a non-salary cap system), whereas there can be people making minimum wage that are overpaid relative to their market value. There are studies showing that the value of a 5-star recruit is close to $500,000 per year for a school, yet they're clearly not getting paid anywhere near that amount (at least above the board). The reason why shady boosters that pay players under the table exist is because everyone knows the true market value of these those players (and it exceeds the value of their scholarships).

There are really only a handful of players who are worth what they are getting now in terms of scholarship, coaching, training and exposure.

Wouldn't be surprised if there is a strike at some point and it marks the beginning of the end for college sports.
Bullet, it wouldn't be the end of college sports. It would be the beginning of the return to student athletes.

From your lips to God's ears.
05-14-2017 03:12 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
I see 2 problems with your rant that I would normally agree with in principle.

1) Not all, but certainly the majority of the kids who play CFB are not the best and brightest students on campus. That alone would dictate that these kids should be spending a lot of time on their studies. However, their commitments of time to the football program makes it difficult for them to learn effectively IMHO.

2) Since the majority of these kids probably do not deserve to be on campus in the academic sense in the first place, they end up gravitating towards the simpler degrees - if they even finish their degrees at all. When you are used as grist to keep the system going, you don't always end up with the best marketable skills to apply to the labor market when the football party is over.

Now there are some very bright kids that can do it all. These are the small minority. Most are dreaming of continuing their careers in a professional capacity. For the sake of these kids, a minor league system should have been established a long time ago. Sadly, it's not and schools have to play games because of it.

(05-14-2017 10:34 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:20 AM)DoubleRSU Wrote:  If the player has such a problem with the current system, transfer to a D2 school. Problem solved. Nobody is forcing him to play there and be "broke". I'm sure 1000s would gladly be taken advantage of in his place.

exactly and the guy is a 5th year senior he could have graduated last year and been in the working world now

or he could have gone pro two years ago......ofh wait he couldn't have gone pro two years ago because no one was going to draft him because he has no NFL value and probably will not have any NFL value after his 5th year either

or he could simply stop playing football, get a regular student job, give up that "worthless" housing, tuition, food, clothing, physical training, coaching, training facilities ect and give up on the dream of going pro and pay to get a degree and graduate and join the real world


(05-14-2017 10:07 AM)Wedge Wrote:  Exactly.

The last pick in the first round of the NFL draft gets a "rookie" contract worth about $9 million. No one can honestly argue that a player who is worth that much in April was only worth the price of a college scholarship in December.

The college teams reap the benefit of paying (almost) nothing for elite athletes whose market value is in the millions. The teams rake in the money while giving none of it to the athletes whose performances generate that money. That's why they have so much cash floating around that they can easily pay so many millions to coaches and commissioners.

this is exactly nonsense

what did all the players that were not drafted and that were not signed as free agents outside the draft get for their skills?

oh they got exactly what he market said their football skills were worth and that was ZERO

you seem to believe that the vast majority of D1-A players or even D1-AA players get drafted to the pros or ever spend a day in the pros much less the reality that the VAST majority never spend a day in the pros

and again this is another case of the economically challenged not understanding the difference between income and profits

college athletics programs do not make profits at the VAST majority of schools they lose large sums of money that come off of the backs of students that PAY to go to school and get their degree

and while it could be argued that a larger number of football programs do make money even if the athletics department overall loses money well then the "valuable" players like this should file a lawsuit and demand that football money pays for football and pull the rug out from under all those other sports that athletics programs sponsor and then they can see how long football last on their campus and how popular football players become on their campus

the "futcha pro balla" that called out this pay has career stats of 25 carries for 39 yards and 24 catches for 226 yards as a tight end playing three seasons so they are going pro in the drive thru most likely after they graduate or maybe selling cars or insurance if they get their degree

there is a high degree of likelihood they never would have stepped foot on a college campus much less a top university like Michigan without football and especially not for free (and getting paid a bit now as well)

the only thing better than seeing all these "muh money" morons left back in whatever town they come from after high school when the "pay me" blows up will be seeing the looks on the faces of the reporters that support them when they get fired because college football collapses and the looks on the fans faces when their program folds and they wonder where they will get a team to cheer for

idiots like this guy should sue the NFL and the NBA or go Arena Ball or move to Canada (if Canada takes high school players into the pros much less Canada does not let in people with the records that many HS players have) if they want to go pro and when that does not work out for them and they find their market value is zero they can get a real world economics lesson that no college will ever teach them and they can learn what super sizing it means
05-14-2017 03:19 PM
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wrcwolf Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
(05-14-2017 01:43 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 12:54 PM)wrcwolf Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 10:29 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 10:03 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I understand this, but total amount isn't relevant. It's about whether you are getting paid in accordance with your market value. LeBron James might make over $20 million per year, but he's actually underpaid (as he would be making even more in a non-salary cap system), whereas there can be people making minimum wage that are overpaid relative to their market value. There are studies showing that the value of a 5-star recruit is close to $500,000 per year for a school, yet they're clearly not getting paid anywhere near that amount (at least above the board). The reason why shady boosters that pay players under the table exist is because everyone knows the true market value of these those players (and it exceeds the value of their scholarships).

There are really only a handful of players who are worth what they are getting now in terms of scholarship, coaching, training and exposure.

Wouldn't be surprised if there is a strike at some point and it marks the beginning of the end for college sports.
Bullet, it wouldn't be the end of college sports. It would be the beginning of the return to student athletes.

Curious, JR, what time period were there true student athletes?

Since the beginning of collegiate sports, Harvard/Yale regatta, those running them have profited through commercialization.

Nothing is new, just larger amounts of cash today.

What you say is true. What I am referring to were the days when they actually had to take real classes and actually had to pass them. But even that was never pure which is why we have the committee on enforcement in the first place. Baseball, Softball, Soccer, Lacrosse, and other such sports still have the feel of student athletes about them. Basketball and Football haven't even been there in my lifetime, but even if by degree they were much more preferable in the 50's & 60's and certainly not because of segregation, but because there was still a sense of respect for the campus and other students, a sense of loyalty to the school when they left, and there was fairly strict discipline at most schools and it began with the coaches, not the administration.

But you are correct. It's very much like the old joke where the rich guy asked a pretty young woman if she would sleep with him for a million dollars. She thought for a while and said yes. He then offered her 100 dollars and she responded with what do you think I am. He said we have established that, now we are just haggling over the price. College athletics may be among the last vestiges of indentured servitude left in this country. I have long felt that student loans might be another.03-wink

Well stated.

Imagine the US Military Academy football scandal or the William & Mary football scandal in the pure 50s accuring today? The point-shaving scandals in college bball during the 50s?

Never been about true student athletes. Schools have been bringing in ringers since they began competing against each other. The schools and NCAA just have done a better job at selling the propaganda. Walter Byers did great work in his job. He later called college athletics a "modern day plantation". Hmmm... The guy that created modern college athletics later realized what a sham it really was. Yet so many still believe.
05-14-2017 03:22 PM
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mikeinsec127 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
Khalid Hill is getting full paid tuition, cost of attendance stipend, access to free food 24/7 at the football training facility, free sneakers and athletic wear, an upgraded dorm room and access to free tutoring in every class. There are 40,000 kids going to Mich paying for all of that and plenty of them are broke right now. Maybe Mr Hill needs to check his situation a little better.
05-14-2017 04:24 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
(05-14-2017 12:43 PM)wrcwolf Wrote:  1) It's rather simple, take away the current athlete compensation cap that the universities have agreed to work under. If college athletes actually have no value, then nothing will change. No need to collude and cap compensation. Why are the schools afraid to do that?

2) It is comical to continue to hear, read people spew the NCAA (schools) propaganda. Individual athletic departments spend either as much as they bring in or damn near close to it for many reasons. One of them is to claim they have no money. Better to build a meaningless barber shop for them. If they were run as the business they are, most would be hoarding some of the record revenue they are getting each year. Tough to have $70 million in the coffers and ask Billy Bob to donate $1000/year for the right to purchase season tickets. Tough to charge Salley Mae $100/semester in student fees, as well.

Most FBS schools lose money on football. Until the last round of contracts, a good % of the P5 schools lost money on football.
05-14-2017 04:29 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Michigan player calls out B1G Commish $20 Million Bonus...
(05-14-2017 10:34 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  what did all the players that were not drafted and that were not signed as free agents outside the draft get for their skills?

oh they got exactly what he market said their football skills were worth and that was ZERO

you seem to believe that the vast majority of D1-A players or even D1-AA players get drafted to the pros or ever spend a day in the pros much less the reality that the VAST majority never spend a day in the pros

Your comment is based on the assumption that if college athletes could be paid, all of them would be paid the same amount. That's how it is now (i.e., none of them are paid at all, at least legally), but there's no reason it has to be that way.

The most valuable athletes, or those most in demand, could and should be paid more. The compensation for Myles Garrett or Leonard Fournette doesn't have to be the same as that of every other player in FBS. The most sought-after players drive the W-L records, the titles, the attendance, the media money, all of that. Schools don't pay every coach, or every athletic director, or every university president, the same amount of money, and there's no reason to pay every athlete the same amount, either.
05-14-2017 04:46 PM
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