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Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
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MU88 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.
05-17-2017 10:15 AM
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msm96wolf Offline
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
More likely, the P4 would happen if anything.
05-17-2017 10:37 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.


P5 could become mega-conferences if they split.

MWC could be split between PAC 12 and Big 12. San Jose State might be the only team left behind.
AAC could be split between Big 12, Big 10, AAC and SEC.
Arkansas State, Northern Illinois, Buffalo, Western Michigan, Toledo, Bowling Green, Western Kentucky, UTEP, Rice, UTSA, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Eastern Washington, Northern Arizona, BYU, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Missouri State, Illinois State, Delaware, Stony Brook, Montana, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, UMass., New Hampshire, Alaska, Vermont, URI, Maine, VCU, Dayton, College of Charleston, Davidson, D1 Hockey schools, Johns Hopkins and maybe some others could be split from the rest as well. You grab the best of football, basketball, hockey, baseball and so forth. I could throw in teams like North Florida, FGCU, Mercer, Georgia State and other good hoops teams that beaten P5 schools.
05-17-2017 10:46 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.
05-17-2017 11:10 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 11:10 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.

They could save quite a bit of money that would be distributed to the schools instead of absorbed by the NCAA.

Yes, they would need infrastructure to replace the NCAA. But it would be managing far fewer universities and athletic programs, it wouldn't have nearly as much bureaucratic bloat to begin with, and it wouldn't be squirreling away big chunks of the annual March Madness revenue in bank accounts just for bureaucratic self-preservation like the NCAA does now.

The big obstacle is just the time and effort needed to create a replacement for the NCAA. The people who would have to do that - university administrators, athletic directors, etc. - already have full-time jobs. This would be a heckuva lot of additional work on top of their full-time jobs. Given the choice between finding a lot of people willing to work 70 hours/week instead of 50, on the one hand, and grudgingly tolerating the current NCAA bloat, on the other hand, the decisionmakers will choose the latter.
05-17-2017 11:29 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.


A P6 sole tourney is not worth 1 billion.
05-17-2017 01:51 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 11:10 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.

Another excellent point. While the P5 don't get the money directly, they get most of it indirectly.

Take softball. all 13 SEC teams made the tourney, which is partially funded from basketball money.
05-17-2017 01:53 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 11:29 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 11:10 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.

They could save quite a bit of money that would be distributed to the schools instead of absorbed by the NCAA.

Yes, they would need infrastructure to replace the NCAA. But it would be managing far fewer universities and athletic programs, it wouldn't have nearly as much bureaucratic bloat to begin with, and it wouldn't be squirreling away big chunks of the annual March Madness revenue in bank accounts just for bureaucratic self-preservation like the NCAA does now.

The big obstacle is just the time and effort needed to create a replacement for the NCAA. The people who would have to do that - university administrators, athletic directors, etc. - already have full-time jobs. This would be a heckuva lot of additional work on top of their full-time jobs. Given the choice between finding a lot of people willing to work 70 hours/week instead of 50, on the one hand, and grudgingly tolerating the current NCAA bloat, on the other hand, the decisionmakers will choose the latter.

And the reality is, they are going to hire most of the people they bring in away from the NCAA.

The drones in Indy weren't the problem anyway, it was things like the $2000 stipend vote being over-ridden by primarily FCS and non-football schools that is the hassle.

The cost of paying for the Division II men's tennis championship and Division III cross country championship is nickels and dimes. The dollars gained aren't worth the bad optics.

The NCAA reserve fund has come in handy at times as well. Some of the litigation that the power 5 schools would have had to pay out on got paid from the rainy day and lawyer fund. If I'm AD I much prefer to tell my president yeah what we were doing was struck down but the NCAA is paying for it than have the money in hand and budgeted and then have to pay it out.
05-17-2017 01:57 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-12-2017 06:10 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  I've seen some p5ers on here that would even " weed out the week" from their own ranks...
So how many teams does that leave them?

04-jawdrop In which week and year will the P5 weed out the "week"? Epic Applause
07-coffee3
05-17-2017 02:36 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 11:29 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 11:10 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.

They could save quite a bit of money that would be distributed to the schools instead of absorbed by the NCAA.

Yes, they would need infrastructure to replace the NCAA. But it would be managing far fewer universities and athletic programs, it wouldn't have nearly as much bureaucratic bloat to begin with, and it wouldn't be squirreling away big chunks of the annual March Madness revenue in bank accounts just for bureaucratic self-preservation like the NCAA does now.

The big obstacle is just the time and effort needed to create a replacement for the NCAA. The people who would have to do that - university administrators, athletic directors, etc. - already have full-time jobs. This would be a heckuva lot of additional work on top of their full-time jobs. Given the choice between finding a lot of people willing to work 70 hours/week instead of 50, on the one hand, and grudgingly tolerating the current NCAA bloat, on the other hand, the decisionmakers will choose the latter.


They could waste more money because if you pull out for all sports? You have sports that do not have enough teams to have make money, but spend more for travel. The one would be hockey. Weeding out the weak P5 schools would also cause more money being spent and you could be in more debt. You need to plan to include schools for all sports.

Big West, MWC, WCC and west coast D2 schools could help by being part of this new group. Several west coast D2 are in a west coast single sport or multiple sports with the PAC 12 and others. I do think PAC 12 would love to bring UC-San Diego along because they could fill spots that they do not have enough members for sports in. PAC 12 do have teams that have water polo, and Big West, MWC and D2 California schools do have water polo. Western Washington does have rowing that is in D1 for that sport. Plus, if they leave other good teams behind? They are leaving money on the table. How much would the other schools gain on the P5 if the P5 are not in the NCAA?
05-17-2017 05:22 PM
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