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LeadBolt Offline
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Post: #81
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
I have partially unfulfilled pledges to MBB that I will honor. I will also give to MBB, but not as much as planned. Some of that money will find its way to other areas of the University. What I give is not enough to be noticed, but I still don't want to abandon MBB.
04-16-2019 11:37 AM
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Post: #82
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
(04-16-2019 11:32 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I get not being happy by some of Huge's moves and not being eager to give in protest. It's your money to do with as you please. But is there any result other than handicapping athletics programs manned by hard working coaches that are historically underfunded? Is the goal to withhold money in the hopes the President/BoV fires Huge? Will withholding support from Coach Fischer fix the letting go of Shaver? Whether you wanted Shaver here or let go, the goal is program improvement. Fischer and all the athletics dept have done nothing wrong and deserve support. I feel like some won't be happy unless Fischer falls on his face so they can say I told you so.

I don't *think* the last line was directed at me, so going to ignore that one and address the rest 03-wink.

That's where I'm conflicted. In the end, I'm one that believes in "money talks"... if we all donate like normal and carry-on, what message does that send to Rowe about how the community really feels?

At the same time, I totally agree with you that it largely hurts the kids. But does it also, if we believe Huge is doing a poor job, hurt the kids if we continue to show support of the current AD?

I'm not sure. This is why I'm undecided on what to do. I very much see a victory dance from Huge if funding improves, etc - "see, people support what I'm doing". That's a message I absolutely do NOT want to send.
04-16-2019 11:44 AM
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mrjoolius Offline
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Post: #83
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
(04-16-2019 11:44 AM)wml33t Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 11:32 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I get not being happy by some of Huge's moves and not being eager to give in protest. It's your money to do with as you please. But is there any result other than handicapping athletics programs manned by hard working coaches that are historically underfunded? Is the goal to withhold money in the hopes the President/BoV fires Huge? Will withholding support from Coach Fischer fix the letting go of Shaver? Whether you wanted Shaver here or let go, the goal is program improvement. Fischer and all the athletics dept have done nothing wrong and deserve support. I feel like some won't be happy unless Fischer falls on his face so they can say I told you so.

I don't *think* the last line was directed at me, so going to ignore that one and address the rest 03-wink.

That's where I'm conflicted. In the end, I'm one that believes in "money talks"... if we all donate like normal and carry-on, what message does that send to Rowe about how the community really feels?

At the same time, I totally agree with you that it largely hurts the kids. But does it also, if we believe Huge is doing a poor job, hurt the kids if we continue to show support of the current AD?

I'm not sure. This is why I'm undecided on what to do. I very much see a victory dance from Huge if funding improves, etc - "see, people support what I'm doing". That's a message I absolutely do NOT want to send.
It wasn't directed specifically at you. More of a statement in general. My personal stance is if kids stay eligible, graduate, are contributing citizens, and win- Huge is more than welcome to take credit and dance a jig.
04-16-2019 11:50 AM
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Tribal Offline
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Post: #84
New AD's Huge Decisions
I hope giving smashes our record and W&M's biggest problem is how to allocate the cash. Whether or not I contribute to that is my business.

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04-16-2019 11:58 AM
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Post: #85
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
(04-16-2019 11:32 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I get not being happy by some of Huge's moves and not being eager to give in protest. It's your money to do with as you please. But is there any result other than handicapping athletics programs manned by hard working coaches that are historically underfunded? Is the goal to withhold money in the hopes the President/BoV fires Huge? Will withholding support from Coach Fischer fix the letting go of Shaver? Whether you wanted Shaver here or let go, the goal is program improvement. Fischer and all the athletics dept have done nothing wrong and deserve support. I feel like some won't be happy unless Fischer falls on his face so they can say I told you so.

You have a more powerful voice to fire the AD if you are and continue to be an Athletics donor. Withholding your $ because you dont like a decision shows one to be temperamental and its probably too late to gather you back (especially true if your donations are nominal). But, if you are a continuous donor who stays the course, but doesnt like decisions, your displeased voice theoretically is louder, as they feel the threat. The psychological fear of losing you (and your assumed cohort) would have the greatest impact in their thinking.
04-16-2019 12:06 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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Post: #86
New AD's Huge Decisions
Everyone needs to wake up and realize that the ONLY donors that they really care about are the ones with millions to donate NOW. Not people who leave estate money, not even those who pledge 100k or who have named scholarships.

One or two whales trump anyone else. Now if Kaplan, Plumeri, or someone with similar pockets complains then Huge will be out. Nothing else comes close.


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04-16-2019 12:55 PM
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Old tribe Offline
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Post: #87
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
(04-16-2019 10:49 AM)Zorch Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 09:22 AM)wml33t Wrote:  I didn't want to put this in the OTOD thread, so tried to find another appropriate one.

I have to say, recent actions (to be clear, my issue is more the ACTIONS than the decisions.. the lack of transparency, unwillingness to address any questions, what seems like a dismissive attitude to alum/fans/donors, etc) have me really questioning whether to give the Athletic Department money like I do every year.

I 100% will be donating on OTOD, I'm just not sure that giving to the Athletic Department gives the message that I want. If I do give, I think it's going to be followed up by a letter of concern to key parties.

This ^^^^^^^

My letter of concern already alerted Rowe that I would withhold gifts to the Athletic Department for the foreseeable future. We (my wife is also an alum) will be giving to the academic side, as usual, but athletics gets nothing until I see changes ....

What specific changes are you looking for?
04-16-2019 01:18 PM
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Zorch Offline
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Post: #88
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
(04-16-2019 11:27 AM)bubbadog57 Wrote:  "but athletics gets nothing until I see changes ...."

What? WE haven't had enough changes?

Good one!

(04-16-2019 11:44 AM)wml33t Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 11:32 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  I get not being happy by some of Huge's moves and not being eager to give in protest. It's your money to do with as you please. But is there any result other than handicapping athletics programs manned by hard working coaches that are historically underfunded? Is the goal to withhold money in the hopes the President/BoV fires Huge? Will withholding support from Coach Fischer fix the letting go of Shaver? Whether you wanted Shaver here or let go, the goal is program improvement. Fischer and all the athletics dept have done nothing wrong and deserve support. I feel like some won't be happy unless Fischer falls on his face so they can say I told you so.

I don't *think* the last line was directed at me, so going to ignore that one and address the rest 03-wink.

That's where I'm conflicted. In the end, I'm one that believes in "money talks"... if we all donate like normal and carry-on, what message does that send to Rowe about how the community really feels?

At the same time, I totally agree with you that it largely hurts the kids. But does it also, if we believe Huge is doing a poor job, hurt the kids if we continue to show support of the current AD?

I'm not sure. This is why I'm undecided on what to do. I very much see a victory dance from Huge if funding improves, etc - "see, people support what I'm doing". That's a message I absolutely do NOT want to send.

(04-16-2019 12:55 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  Everyone needs to wake up and realize that the ONLY donors that they really care about are the ones with millions to donate NOW. Not people who leave estate money, not even those who pledge 100k or who have named scholarships.

One or two whales trump anyone else. Now if Kaplan, Plumeri, or someone with similar pockets complains then Huge will be out. Nothing else comes close.

I agree with wml33t. Not only does money talk but it is the only thing that talks. I also agree with Tribe32 in that only the top money talks - specifically. But all the aggregate money talks - generally. If enough people feel like I do then they also will withhold from the athletic department and those aggregate losses will be noticed and missed. My puny contribution will not be missed individually but if enough puny contributions are missed then that should get their attention that we don't like the methods being used by the AD.

(04-16-2019 01:18 PM)Old tribe Wrote:  
(04-16-2019 10:49 AM)Zorch Wrote:  ... but athletics gets nothing until I see changes ....

What specific changes are you looking for?

I'm looking for changes similar to what wml33t wrote earlier today: I'm looking for more transparency out of the AD. More answers. Less defensiveness. I'm looking for an answer out of her when she promises to look into something (it has been almost two years now, and counting). Those are things that I am looking for out of the current AD. I admit that I would like much more to be looking at a whole new AD altogether.
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2019 04:53 PM by Zorch.)
04-16-2019 04:16 PM
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tribeinexile Offline
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Post: #89
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
Let me preface this by saying that I hate the name of this thread. The issue here is the relationship between the College and MBB. There is no need for attacking individuals with whom we don’t have personal relationships – and if we do have personal relations with folks we don’t need to be airing them on a message board..

And let me apologize for the novel below. The subject matters a great deal to me and this is the only forum I have in which I can express myself.

This has been an agonizing month for me.

I contribute to the College because I believe it is my duty as an alum to give back. I give to W&M athletics in part because I believe the school’s best and brightest are its athletes in non-revenue sports.

On the other hand, I give to W&M basketball with passion. W&M is my school and basketball is my sport. It’s as simple as that. I became addicted as a student and young alum in the Balanis/Parkhill era. It wasn’t just beating UNC. It was Satterthwaite almost single-handedly challenging an undefeated, top Ten Rutgers team. It was going toe-to-toe with ODU and VCU. It was beating VMI (then a top 20 caliber team) on a Dave Montgomery goaltend at the buzzer. It was playing the best 20 minutes of defensive basketball I have ever seen against Navy (gritty man-to-man, denying every pass).

And it included the one time we should have gone to the Dance: the 1983 heartbreaker to JMU.

Then Bruce left and Barry couldn’t keep the magic going. It was Swenson and Boyages. I remember actually leaving a Tribe basketball game in the 1980s with 5 minutes to go out of disgust. Ironically, I ran into a classmate of mine who was leaving the game at the same. Two basketball junkies going cold turkey on a poor product.

Charlie Woollum was not able to re-kindle my love although I remember the heartbreak at the Robins Center when we were the one seed. And the first few years under Shaver didn’t do it for me. I went to the Finals every time we made it and I still remember watching at home, jumping (and screaming) for joy when Laimus Kisielius hit that shot to beat VCU. But in all those years I never thought we had a shot. I never bought a CAAT tournament ticket book even though I lived in Richmond.

I flew to Baltimore in 2010 after we beat Towson (who had beaten us twice in the regular season). The end of the game was crushing but that night, for that stretch when two freshmen led us from double digits down to six up, I fell in love again. And I had hope.

The last five years have been special. And now it’s gone.

There are folks on the board who have more information than I who are saying they understand the move. They are counselling patience and I’m trying.

But as others have said (albeit in an altogether different context), insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. And yet College continues to try to compete in MBB without providing the necessary resources and expecting to win.

Only in the last five years have I come to understand how little the College has been committed to MBB. Whether it’s coordinating with the Admissions Office, funding foreign trips or summer school, or opening the Hall for practice during snow days, the College has had to be dragged kicking and screaming to support the program. Basically I feel I have had a greater commitment to MBB than the College.

Given its traditional level of funding support, Tribe MBB should always be inferior to Northeastern, Hofstra, UNCW and CofC. The College should be more competitive with, but slightly behind, JMU and Delaware. The expectation should be a lot of CAAT play-in games and not many victories in them. We’ve been there and done that.

So if the College is going in a different (more supportive direction) with MBB, then certainly they can choose a different coach. If not, if they think they can hire someone who can magically draw winning schemes, lock down defenses and attract high-major talent through some Gene Hackman, Hoosiers magic WITHOUT increasing their support for MBB, then …

It’s too early to tell which path the College is taking. Since today is OTOD, I have to make some giving decisions based on incomplete results.

Here is what I see so far:

Head Coach: this looks a Lou Rowe hire to me. Young assistant, may be a home run, maybe not. No experience as a head coach and certainly comes cheap. No way we’re paying $700,000 for that resume.

Assistant Coach: the only hire we’ve made is to retain our most junior assistant from the prior regime. Fischer was named two weeks ago. That he hasn’t hired anyone yet suggests he might be short some industry contracts or, more likely, he isn’t able to offer attractive salaries.

Retention: I have to give Fischer a pass on this. Everybody on the board knows everything on this but no two folks have the same story. I know transfers are endemic in the sport now so, like I said, a pass. (My totally uniformed opinion is that we would have lost Pierce and that’s it. However, on this I make Sergeant Schultz look like a genius.)

What no one has explained to me is why, given an (hopefully) extra $300,000/year to spend on MBB, the College thought the best use of that money was coaching. Maybe if we had spent some money to make it a better job, we could have attracted a home run candidate in a few years.

The College does not owe me an explanation. I don’t require more transparency; no need to air dirty laundry to justify a personnel move. If it was an X’s and O’s decision, I know what I see and I can form my own opinions.

I will continue to give out of a sense of obligation. I am willing to be convinced.

But actions speak louder than words.
04-16-2019 07:44 PM
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Marshall Wythe Offline
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Post: #90
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
I won't judge anyone for what they do regarding donations to Tribe athletics/basketball. It is a dilemma. I don't want to reward the AD for wasting the money we donate, but I also don't want to hurt the students. That said, I have decided personally not to donate this year. I just can't give more money that might be blown on decisions that make no sense to me. I will reconsider next year. But, I get it if others decide they have to keep sending money.
04-16-2019 08:26 PM
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nj alum Offline
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Post: #91
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
When the school personally contacts you during the evening, and gently asks if you had the chance to make your gift, and you respond that there will be no gift this year because of the treatment of Tony Shaver, ... message sent ... and message received.
04-16-2019 08:31 PM
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Tribal Offline
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RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
(04-16-2019 08:31 PM)nj alum Wrote:  When the school personally contacts you during the evening, and gently asks if you had the chance to make your gift, and you respond that there will be no gift this year because of the treatment of Tony Shaver, ... message sent ... and message received.
No chance the student who sent that text, and received your response, forwarded your message to the AD.

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04-16-2019 08:55 PM
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nj alum Offline
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RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
Wasn’t a student.
04-16-2019 09:40 PM
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Tank55 Offline
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Post: #94
RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
Maybe don't hold your breath that your specific withering takedown will hit Huge's desk, but Lambert's a pro; I'm quite sure they are documenting feedback and analyzing the aggregated results. Everyone should definitely communicate their feelings when they have the opportunity, whether they decide to give or not. It's of value to the College.
04-17-2019 09:11 AM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
Zorch, I don't think that the small donors really matter in terms of the money, but to your point it may send a message. I'm a big Redskins fan and between Snyder and Bruce Allen we've seen a terrible product in a horrible stadium and game experience for ever, and now it's coming back to haunt them. Most of the reason is that they never have transparency and make enormous gaffes in terms of hiring, firing, how they treat that fans, the City of Richmond, and I can go on and on. Guess what? Nobody is buying tickets except for the ticket brokers.

Take the Redskins analogy and relate it to Huge and what she's done. She treats everyone like crap including the fans and then wants to make it look like everything is peaches and cream. I worry that we will see a big drop off in basketball season ticket sales. We've had a good product for a while and people got very loyal to the coach. The firing could be a mess that lasts for years and years.
04-17-2019 12:51 PM
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RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
(04-17-2019 12:51 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  She treats everyone like crap including the fans and then wants to make it look like everything is peaches and cream.

Is this true? I'm not saying you are wrong, but how exactly is she supposed to act? I know the AD has a public relations responsibility, but how much do you need/expect her to be out mingling with the fans? I know being personable is an important trait for fundraising, but is that really what she was hired for. For me, her primary measure is to steward the athletics programs. As long as student athletes are able to succeed, graduate, represent W&M in respectable manner, and ultimately win- she is fulfilling her responsibility. Her 1st major hire hasn't played a game and her 2nd hasn't been employed a month. Snyder/Allen have a 10 year history with the redskins to be judged on. Huge has been on the job for less than 2. Not quite a fair comparison. I'm coming across as a big Huge supporter. I'm not though. She doesn't get results, and I'll want her gone too.
04-17-2019 01:28 PM
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RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
(04-17-2019 01:28 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  For me, her primary measure is to steward the athletics programs. As long as student athletes are able to succeed, graduate, represent W&M in respectable manner, and ultimately win- she is fulfilling her responsibility.

I apologize in advance ... because you are truly one of the good guys ... but I can’t help myself:

For me, Shaver’s primary measure is to steward the men’s basketball program. As long as student athletes are able to succeed, graduate, represent W&M in a respectable manner, and ultimately win-Shaver is fulfilling his responsibility.

Just sayin.

It’s 4/17/19. None of our portal guys have come back. We have no recruits. We promoted the #3 assistant from the prior staff, and have no other assistants. Our former #1 assistant is now at a conference rival.

If this isn’t a dumpster fire ...
04-17-2019 02:12 PM
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mrjoolius Offline
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RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
(04-17-2019 02:12 PM)nj alum Wrote:  If this isn’t a dumpster fire ...

It isn't optimal, but I don't know about a dumpster fire. It's, unfortunately, the nature of things when there is a coaching change. Good coaches and good players will leave. Good coaches and good players will come on board. I expect Fischer will hire the coaches he wants. I expect the coaching staff to bring in freshman and transfers to fill the holes in the roster. I expect the team to play hard and compete next season.

If we get to next season and are forced to fill out the roster with open tryouts, than I'll agree on the dumpster fire.
04-17-2019 02:39 PM
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Tribe32 Offline
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RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
Her main job is fund raising, and that's why she was hired. She is dismissive and rude to many people who have been around the Tribe for a long time. Many ex-athletes are in that group. Rowe is very much the opposite and talks to everyone who interacts with her. These are personal choices and behavior traits.

I personally try to be a nice person and give respect and time out of my day to whoever wants to talk to me. I'm never too busy. Again, those are choices that I make. It seems like the right thing to do.

(04-17-2019 01:28 PM)mrjoolius Wrote:  
(04-17-2019 12:51 PM)Tribe32 Wrote:  She treats everyone like crap including the fans and then wants to make it look like everything is peaches and cream.

Is this true? I'm not saying you are wrong, but how exactly is she supposed to act? I know the AD has a public relations responsibility, but how much do you need/expect her to be out mingling with the fans? I know being personable is an important trait for fundraising, but is that really what she was hired for. For me, her primary measure is to steward the athletics programs. As long as student athletes are able to succeed, graduate, represent W&M in respectable manner, and ultimately win- she is fulfilling her responsibility. Her 1st major hire hasn't played a game and her 2nd hasn't been employed a month. Snyder/Allen have a 10 year history with the redskins to be judged on. Huge has been on the job for less than 2. Not quite a fair comparison. I'm coming across as a big Huge supporter. I'm not though. She doesn't get results, and I'll want her gone too.
04-17-2019 03:20 PM
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Tribeheart Online
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RE: New AD's Huge Decisions
https://www.richmond.com/sports/college/...2f4d7.html

Todd Stottlemyer
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We have an amazingly talented and bold Director of Athletics at William & Mary
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Quote Tweet
Samantha K. Huge
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· 8h
Really appreciate the coverage ⁦@RTDjohnoconnor⁩. Thank you for helping us to tell the story of ⁦@TribeAthletics⁩! #GOTRIBE (link: https://www.richmond.com/sports/college/...2f4d7.html) richmond.com/sports/college…

8:57 PM · Apr 17, 2019 ·

Our AD is obviously supported by the BOV and President with respect to actions and direction. Nothing which has occured is being done in a vacuum. Until there is any indication, otherwise, I doubt any low level feedback directly to the Athletic Department is of consequence to change that macro direction. Most of us are not privy to the business climate and obstacles being navigated, both, micro and macro. Consequently, I may question, or object to, some actions, but I am just an armchair observer. I would conjecture that there was an even greater need for changing the athletic department business model than any of us imagined. Disruptive macro decisions wouldn't be made under a collective leadership eye unless they were thought necessary for where that business model needed to evolve to.

Always very tough to envision and orchestrate change, and often requires a very unbending focus to galvanize that change, which includes shutting out a lot of noise. Even tougher to be the one implementing it. In two more years, the results of the actions and direction will be more defined and conclusive. If successful, then the leadership will deserve to take credit. If those results fail to put us on a successful path for the longterm future and result in decline, then our AD, as well as, the President and current BOV, will own any missteps and failure, and suffer the consequences, with all of us. Till then, I will tender some confidence and faith in the BOV, as fellow Tribe Alum.

On a different note:
I have supported, taken great pleasure in, and am very thankful to Tony and staff for where they have brought the MBB program to: in being competitive, stable, a higher and higher talent level, as well as, student/athletes and coaches who are great reps. Sixteen years of dedication and loyalty, with not the storybook ending hoped for and deserved.

It might seem like a too simplistic or obvious question requiring a more complicated answer, but I couldn't help but notice a response on twitter with regard to ESPN's rating list of the current grad/undergrad transfers. It simply asked: With all of those W&M players rated high on the lists (as well as a player declared for the NBA draft), how did W&M have a losing record? Food for thought.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2019 10:16 PM by Tribeheart.)
04-17-2019 09:54 PM
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