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Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
(05-11-2017 08:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 05:28 AM)StinkyDuck Wrote:  The Big 12 as we know it is gonna stay together at least until the GOR expires. It would be a shocker if any school forfeited all that revenue to move on somewhere else.

So really the only option right now would be to dissolve the conference which would need 8 votes. To get those votes, obviously 8 schools would have to have new homes to agree to it or a guaranteed amount of revenue that I would assume would have to be beyond their current contracts (good luck with that).

I'm not going to get on the subject of who could go where but at this point I don't think any conference would touch Baylor under their current turmoil just on PR reasons alone.

So my question is do you think the schools in the Big 12 possibly could fear Baylor accusing them of collusion if they all agreed to backroom deals to find a home for everyone and they were left out?

I do think in a couple of years this won't be as much of an issue but just want to hear all of your opinions.

No, they are not holding it together. In fact if they were expelled it could affect their ability to have a championship game (approved for 10 not 9) and it devalues the current contract which could lead to other ramifications. It would however only require 7 for dissolution should Baylor get the boot. And I don't think they add Houston or B.Y.U.. Why? They would have a couple of years to replace Baylor, at least that's the way dropping below conference minimums works with the NCAA.

If Texas left and required Tech to be taken and if OU left and required OSU to be taken, and should Kansas and West Virginia (which are both relatively likely to be taken) are taken, then only Iowa State need find a home for dissolution to occur. And don't forget that T.C.U. plays in Ft.Worth and DFW is a whopper of a market.

So 7 is much more doable, especially if you have 2 years to work out the details. And with Amazon and Hulu lurking on the horizon in 2023 to compete for this inventory it would behoove FOX and ESPN to place those schools, renegotiate conference payouts, and use that as an excuse for contract extensions that would bypass interference from those future competitors for say 4 to 6 more years. If 6 then you are looking at 2030 and by then FOX and ESPN might be in a better position to handle the changes.

The Big 12 would do it if they got everybody placed, could still do it at 7, and the other conferences would do it for a bump in pay, and the networks would do it to avoid a bidding war in 2022.

there is no requirement for there to be 10 teams to have a CCG

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/medi...mpionships

there is only the requirement to either have divisions and the winner of each division must play in the CCG or the requirement to play a full round robin and pair the two top teams

there is the underlying NCAA requirement for the number of teams to form a "conference" but that is under 9 teams as well

either way Baylor is not getting kicked out of the Big 12 until after Penn State is kicked out of the Big 10 and UNC is kicked out of the ACC and there is not going to be any chance that 8 teams get together and find a way to negotiate to all find homes and dissolve the conference

there is too much risk financially. legally and especially finding yourself left out when you thought you were not for a number of teams to sign on to that
05-13-2017 10:49 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
(05-13-2017 10:49 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 08:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 05:28 AM)StinkyDuck Wrote:  The Big 12 as we know it is gonna stay together at least until the GOR expires. It would be a shocker if any school forfeited all that revenue to move on somewhere else.

So really the only option right now would be to dissolve the conference which would need 8 votes. To get those votes, obviously 8 schools would have to have new homes to agree to it or a guaranteed amount of revenue that I would assume would have to be beyond their current contracts (good luck with that).

I'm not going to get on the subject of who could go where but at this point I don't think any conference would touch Baylor under their current turmoil just on PR reasons alone.

So my question is do you think the schools in the Big 12 possibly could fear Baylor accusing them of collusion if they all agreed to backroom deals to find a home for everyone and they were left out?

I do think in a couple of years this won't be as much of an issue but just want to hear all of your opinions.

No, they are not holding it together. In fact if they were expelled it could affect their ability to have a championship game (approved for 10 not 9) and it devalues the current contract which could lead to other ramifications. It would however only require 7 for dissolution should Baylor get the boot. And I don't think they add Houston or B.Y.U.. Why? They would have a couple of years to replace Baylor, at least that's the way dropping below conference minimums works with the NCAA.

If Texas left and required Tech to be taken and if OU left and required OSU to be taken, and should Kansas and West Virginia (which are both relatively likely to be taken) are taken, then only Iowa State need find a home for dissolution to occur. And don't forget that T.C.U. plays in Ft.Worth and DFW is a whopper of a market.

So 7 is much more doable, especially if you have 2 years to work out the details. And with Amazon and Hulu lurking on the horizon in 2023 to compete for this inventory it would behoove FOX and ESPN to place those schools, renegotiate conference payouts, and use that as an excuse for contract extensions that would bypass interference from those future competitors for say 4 to 6 more years. If 6 then you are looking at 2030 and by then FOX and ESPN might be in a better position to handle the changes.

The Big 12 would do it if they got everybody placed, could still do it at 7, and the other conferences would do it for a bump in pay, and the networks would do it to avoid a bidding war in 2022.

there is no requirement for there to be 10 teams to have a CCG

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/medi...mpionships

there is only the requirement to either have divisions and the winner of each division must play in the CCG or the requirement to play a full round robin and pair the two top teams

there is the underlying NCAA requirement for the number of teams to form a "conference" but that is under 9 teams as well

either way Baylor is not getting kicked out of the Big 12 until after Penn State is kicked out of the Big 10 and UNC is kicked out of the ACC and there is not going to be any chance that 8 teams get together and find a way to negotiate to all find homes and dissolve the conference

there is too much risk financially. legally and especially finding yourself left out when you thought you were not for a number of teams to sign on to that

Okay, but either way they could easily lose their voting privileges. But it doesn't matter. If OU and Texas decided to push for conference sanctions, which are in the bylaws the Big 12 could still instigate a situation where diminished value enters the picture, or 7 votes becomes the total needed for a larger decision.

Now I speak in terms of what is possible. You speak in absolutes. What is your evidence that would back a claim of "this will never happen". Give us the "why" part of it will never happen.
05-13-2017 11:09 AM
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TodgeRodge Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
(05-13-2017 11:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-13-2017 10:49 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 08:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 05:28 AM)StinkyDuck Wrote:  The Big 12 as we know it is gonna stay together at least until the GOR expires. It would be a shocker if any school forfeited all that revenue to move on somewhere else.

So really the only option right now would be to dissolve the conference which would need 8 votes. To get those votes, obviously 8 schools would have to have new homes to agree to it or a guaranteed amount of revenue that I would assume would have to be beyond their current contracts (good luck with that).

I'm not going to get on the subject of who could go where but at this point I don't think any conference would touch Baylor under their current turmoil just on PR reasons alone.

So my question is do you think the schools in the Big 12 possibly could fear Baylor accusing them of collusion if they all agreed to backroom deals to find a home for everyone and they were left out?

I do think in a couple of years this won't be as much of an issue but just want to hear all of your opinions.

No, they are not holding it together. In fact if they were expelled it could affect their ability to have a championship game (approved for 10 not 9) and it devalues the current contract which could lead to other ramifications. It would however only require 7 for dissolution should Baylor get the boot. And I don't think they add Houston or B.Y.U.. Why? They would have a couple of years to replace Baylor, at least that's the way dropping below conference minimums works with the NCAA.

If Texas left and required Tech to be taken and if OU left and required OSU to be taken, and should Kansas and West Virginia (which are both relatively likely to be taken) are taken, then only Iowa State need find a home for dissolution to occur. And don't forget that T.C.U. plays in Ft.Worth and DFW is a whopper of a market.

So 7 is much more doable, especially if you have 2 years to work out the details. And with Amazon and Hulu lurking on the horizon in 2023 to compete for this inventory it would behoove FOX and ESPN to place those schools, renegotiate conference payouts, and use that as an excuse for contract extensions that would bypass interference from those future competitors for say 4 to 6 more years. If 6 then you are looking at 2030 and by then FOX and ESPN might be in a better position to handle the changes.

The Big 12 would do it if they got everybody placed, could still do it at 7, and the other conferences would do it for a bump in pay, and the networks would do it to avoid a bidding war in 2022.

there is no requirement for there to be 10 teams to have a CCG

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/medi...mpionships

there is only the requirement to either have divisions and the winner of each division must play in the CCG or the requirement to play a full round robin and pair the two top teams

there is the underlying NCAA requirement for the number of teams to form a "conference" but that is under 9 teams as well

either way Baylor is not getting kicked out of the Big 12 until after Penn State is kicked out of the Big 10 and UNC is kicked out of the ACC and there is not going to be any chance that 8 teams get together and find a way to negotiate to all find homes and dissolve the conference

there is too much risk financially. legally and especially finding yourself left out when you thought you were not for a number of teams to sign on to that

Okay, but either way they could easily lose their voting privileges. But it doesn't matter. If OU and Texas decided to push for conference sanctions, which are in the bylaws the Big 12 could still instigate a situation where diminished value enters the picture, or 7 votes becomes the total needed for a larger decision.

Now I speak in terms of what is possible. You speak in absolutes. What is your evidence that would back a claim of "this will never happen". Give us the "why" part of it will never happen.

as soon as Penn State and UNC are booted from their conferences the same will happen to Baylor......so never
05-13-2017 11:54 AM
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hawghiggs Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
(05-13-2017 11:54 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(05-13-2017 11:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-13-2017 10:49 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 08:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 05:28 AM)StinkyDuck Wrote:  The Big 12 as we know it is gonna stay together at least until the GOR expires. It would be a shocker if any school forfeited all that revenue to move on somewhere else.

So really the only option right now would be to dissolve the conference which would need 8 votes. To get those votes, obviously 8 schools would have to have new homes to agree to it or a guaranteed amount of revenue that I would assume would have to be beyond their current contracts (good luck with that).

I'm not going to get on the subject of who could go where but at this point I don't think any conference would touch Baylor under their current turmoil just on PR reasons alone.

So my question is do you think the schools in the Big 12 possibly could fear Baylor accusing them of collusion if they all agreed to backroom deals to find a home for everyone and they were left out?

I do think in a couple of years this won't be as much of an issue but just want to hear all of your opinions.

No, they are not holding it together. In fact if they were expelled it could affect their ability to have a championship game (approved for 10 not 9) and it devalues the current contract which could lead to other ramifications. It would however only require 7 for dissolution should Baylor get the boot. And I don't think they add Houston or B.Y.U.. Why? They would have a couple of years to replace Baylor, at least that's the way dropping below conference minimums works with the NCAA.

If Texas left and required Tech to be taken and if OU left and required OSU to be taken, and should Kansas and West Virginia (which are both relatively likely to be taken) are taken, then only Iowa State need find a home for dissolution to occur. And don't forget that T.C.U. plays in Ft.Worth and DFW is a whopper of a market.

So 7 is much more doable, especially if you have 2 years to work out the details. And with Amazon and Hulu lurking on the horizon in 2023 to compete for this inventory it would behoove FOX and ESPN to place those schools, renegotiate conference payouts, and use that as an excuse for contract extensions that would bypass interference from those future competitors for say 4 to 6 more years. If 6 then you are looking at 2030 and by then FOX and ESPN might be in a better position to handle the changes.

The Big 12 would do it if they got everybody placed, could still do it at 7, and the other conferences would do it for a bump in pay, and the networks would do it to avoid a bidding war in 2022.

there is no requirement for there to be 10 teams to have a CCG

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/medi...mpionships

there is only the requirement to either have divisions and the winner of each division must play in the CCG or the requirement to play a full round robin and pair the two top teams

there is the underlying NCAA requirement for the number of teams to form a "conference" but that is under 9 teams as well

either way Baylor is not getting kicked out of the Big 12 until after Penn State is kicked out of the Big 10 and UNC is kicked out of the ACC and there is not going to be any chance that 8 teams get together and find a way to negotiate to all find homes and dissolve the conference

there is too much risk financially. legally and especially finding yourself left out when you thought you were not for a number of teams to sign on to that

Okay, but either way they could easily lose their voting privileges. But it doesn't matter. If OU and Texas decided to push for conference sanctions, which are in the bylaws the Big 12 could still instigate a situation where diminished value enters the picture, or 7 votes becomes the total needed for a larger decision.

Now I speak in terms of what is possible. You speak in absolutes. What is your evidence that would back a claim of "this will never happen". Give us the "why" part of it will never happen.

as soon as Penn State and UNC are booted from their conferences the same will happen to Baylor......so never

Those are different situations. Baylor is in a unstable conference with members that are looking for a way out of it. Baylor also has a history of this type of behavior.
05-13-2017 12:24 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
(05-13-2017 11:54 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(05-13-2017 11:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-13-2017 10:49 AM)TodgeRodge Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 08:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 05:28 AM)StinkyDuck Wrote:  The Big 12 as we know it is gonna stay together at least until the GOR expires. It would be a shocker if any school forfeited all that revenue to move on somewhere else.

So really the only option right now would be to dissolve the conference which would need 8 votes. To get those votes, obviously 8 schools would have to have new homes to agree to it or a guaranteed amount of revenue that I would assume would have to be beyond their current contracts (good luck with that).

I'm not going to get on the subject of who could go where but at this point I don't think any conference would touch Baylor under their current turmoil just on PR reasons alone.

So my question is do you think the schools in the Big 12 possibly could fear Baylor accusing them of collusion if they all agreed to backroom deals to find a home for everyone and they were left out?

I do think in a couple of years this won't be as much of an issue but just want to hear all of your opinions.

No, they are not holding it together. In fact if they were expelled it could affect their ability to have a championship game (approved for 10 not 9) and it devalues the current contract which could lead to other ramifications. It would however only require 7 for dissolution should Baylor get the boot. And I don't think they add Houston or B.Y.U.. Why? They would have a couple of years to replace Baylor, at least that's the way dropping below conference minimums works with the NCAA.

If Texas left and required Tech to be taken and if OU left and required OSU to be taken, and should Kansas and West Virginia (which are both relatively likely to be taken) are taken, then only Iowa State need find a home for dissolution to occur. And don't forget that T.C.U. plays in Ft.Worth and DFW is a whopper of a market.

So 7 is much more doable, especially if you have 2 years to work out the details. And with Amazon and Hulu lurking on the horizon in 2023 to compete for this inventory it would behoove FOX and ESPN to place those schools, renegotiate conference payouts, and use that as an excuse for contract extensions that would bypass interference from those future competitors for say 4 to 6 more years. If 6 then you are looking at 2030 and by then FOX and ESPN might be in a better position to handle the changes.

The Big 12 would do it if they got everybody placed, could still do it at 7, and the other conferences would do it for a bump in pay, and the networks would do it to avoid a bidding war in 2022.

there is no requirement for there to be 10 teams to have a CCG

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/medi...mpionships

there is only the requirement to either have divisions and the winner of each division must play in the CCG or the requirement to play a full round robin and pair the two top teams

there is the underlying NCAA requirement for the number of teams to form a "conference" but that is under 9 teams as well

either way Baylor is not getting kicked out of the Big 12 until after Penn State is kicked out of the Big 10 and UNC is kicked out of the ACC and there is not going to be any chance that 8 teams get together and find a way to negotiate to all find homes and dissolve the conference

there is too much risk financially. legally and especially finding yourself left out when you thought you were not for a number of teams to sign on to that

Okay, but either way they could easily lose their voting privileges. But it doesn't matter. If OU and Texas decided to push for conference sanctions, which are in the bylaws the Big 12 could still instigate a situation where diminished value enters the picture, or 7 votes becomes the total needed for a larger decision.

Now I speak in terms of what is possible. You speak in absolutes. What is your evidence that would back a claim of "this will never happen". Give us the "why" part of it will never happen.

as soon as Penn State and UNC are booted from their conferences the same will happen to Baylor......so never

That's not an answer that shows your reasoning. It's merely a reassertion of an unsubstantiated claim. The Baylor case is quite different from the other two. It's not different in the egregiousness of its issues, but in the direct connection to the President's office. Baylor is being investigated by the Federal Government on two counts: Violation of Title IX and violation of the Clery Act. Both are likely to lead to convictions and then become the basis of NCAA action. The direct connection to the president of Baylor has already been established as has the cover up.

In the Penn State case the cover up connections weren't quite as clear and Paterno's involvement was obfuscated just enough to detract from the apparent motive that would have given a clear cut case against the school.

At UNC fraud is quite probable and it could affect accreditation at least in as much as being on probation which is about as serious as that offense gets. So while the allegations, and likely the actual events constitute a crime, it is a property crime and not an assault, a sexual assault, or a covered up murder as took place at Baylor with regard to the basketball team.

Baylor has crimes against individuals, multiple crimes, covered up by coaches and the administration, and a history of such. Things don't look good for Baylor at all. And they are a much clearer in distinction of these crimes and cover ups than at Penn State. So what happened elsewhere has no bearing upon the outcome of the Baylor event.

Now throw in the righteous indignation of Southern Baptists across Texas who have loved and supported Baylor as the locus for the training of their pastors and you have a mountain of pain that needs finality.
05-13-2017 12:29 PM
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jgkojak Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
(05-13-2017 08:49 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Here is a scenario that gets enough Big 12 schools landing spots to dissolve.

Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, & Oklahoma St to the Pac 12.

The Big Ten sees Kansas as an asset but doesn't find anyone else in the Big 12 suitable so the pry Missouri from the SEC using their academic appeal which still means a lot among university presidents.

The SEC takes the opportunity to reach in to Texas for more fertile recruiting and adds TCU, Baylor, and backfills with WVU to cover For losing Missouri.

The ACC breathes a sigh of relief as their GOR held tight.

Iowa St and Kansas St recieved offers from both the AAC and MWC but ultimately choose the AAC.

I think the Kansas/Missouri play is right on - with the decline in ratings due in part of the lack of old rivalries, I think the final piece of realignment will be pulling old rivals together. It would be good for both schools- MU football can thrive, KU football may win a few more conf games every year

B1G WEST would then be
KU, MU, IA, NEB (another old rival for both), MIN, WI, ILL (rival for MU), NWESTERN
B1G EAST is
PURDUE, INDIANA, MICH, MSU, OSU, PSU, MD and RUTGERS
05-13-2017 01:11 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
(05-12-2017 10:08 PM)Trevor Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 05:31 PM)Mav Wrote:  
(05-10-2017 06:07 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I think there is a real possibility that Baylor will be kicked out of the Big12 soon.
Why? They're solid in the three high-profile sports. Is it because of their history of terrible conduct? They're basically in the successor to the SWC, and Texas schools have had a win-at-all-costs culture to them since before the Big 12 even existed.

I know what you mean about win-at-all-cost, but this is rape, lies and cover-up. This is serious stuff here. The best thing Baylor can do is to take responsibility, support the victims, make restitution to the victims and fire EVERYBODY associated in the wrong and then hope time makes folks not remember. This IS a Baptist institution. I'm a Baylor fan, and Baylor bending over backward to make this right will go a long way, a much longer way than what they do on the field, court or diamond.

Bravo to you then (no sarcasm). Most alums just ignore the problems like those from PSU.
05-13-2017 04:27 PM
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Post: #18
Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
05-17-2017 11:30 AM
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Is Baylor actually helping the Big12 stay together?
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05-17-2017 11:31 AM
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