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Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
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ken d Offline
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Post: #201
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-21-2017 10:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-21-2017 07:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  An interesting study done in 2012 sheds a little light on how academics (i.e. University presidents and administrators) view Oklahoma (and vice versa). In the study, school leaders were asked to list the schools they consider to be their peers.

This is the same study in which the University of Phoenix listed Harvard as a peer institution.

Phoenix listed just about everybody. Perhaps I misspoke when I referred to this as a "study" - it would be more appropriately termed a "survey". And to be clear, the schools who participated were not given instructions in how they should define a "peer". As I mentioned earlier, Rutgers wasn't far behind Phoenix in this regard.

So some schools may have listed what might be called "aspirational peers". Schools you want to become peers of, rather than just ones you are already a peer of. I think you could make a case that this is what Oklahoma did when it named every public university in the Big Ten.

This isn't something one can practically draw conclusions from. But you might be able to gain insights into how schools see themselves in relation to others.
05-22-2017 08:18 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #202
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-21-2017 07:42 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-21-2017 07:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  An interesting study done in 2012 sheds a little light on how academics (i.e. University presidents and administrators) view Oklahoma (and vice versa). In the study, school leaders were asked to list the schools they consider to be their peers.

In that study, Oklahoma listed 20 P5 schools they considered academic peers. Only one (Colorado) was from the PAC. Two (A&M and Missouri) were from the SEC. OU did not list any ACC schools as peers.

They listed six of their nine Big 12 mates: Iowa St, Kansas St, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech, Kansas and Texas. Interestingly, of these six, all but Texas also named Oklahoma as a peer.

On OU's list were a whopping 11 Big Ten schools. The only ones not on their list were Rutgers and Maryland (who were not yet B1G members) and the only private school in the B1G, Northwestern.

One wonders if they were trying to send a signal to the B1G about their interest in making a move. The only B1G school that listed OU as a peer was Rutgers (who almost doesn't count since they named a whopping 97 schools as "peers"). They may have been fishing for a conference home as well.

The only ACC school that named the Sooners was Florida State. Nobody in the PAC mentioned them.

Three SEC schools named OU: Auburn, Alabama and Arkansas.

************************************************
Texas didn't name as many peers as OU. The only ACC school they named was UNC (who also had Texas on their list). They listed no SEC schools. Three were from the PAC (Cal, UCLA and Washington), none of which reciprocated.

The other seven schools were all from the B1G: Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota and Wisconsin who also had named the Horns, and Michigan St, and Ohio St which didn't.

Seven SEC schools named UT: Auburn, Texas A&M, Alabama, Florida, Kentucky, Missouri and Tennessee.

Five other ACC schools had Texas on their list: Florida St, Georgia Tech, Pitt, Virginia and Virginia Tech.

Not surprisingly, none of the ACC privates listed Texas. That shouldn't be taken to mean those schools don't respect Texas' academics - only that their institutional missions are very different.

***********************************************

This study was not meant to shed light on how any schools or conferences might view other schools as athletic conference mates. I just found it interesting.

I don't recall perfectly, and you didn't mention it, but I don't think Texas listed any of its Big 12 brethren as peers either.

A king can never have equals in his own realm. 07-coffee3
05-22-2017 08:20 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #203
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
I'd be interested in hearing JR's thoughts, but I think the SEC really needs to make a play for Oklahoma, and in order for the SEC to get OU, they can seal the deal by taking OK State. If the SEC stands pat for too long, the B1G could eventually offer membership to both OU and Kansas, which would put their conference on the doorstep of Texas - which could then end up being the move that puts the B1G over the SEC.

Doubling up the Oklahoma market may not be the huge boost the SEC would want, but it would be a protective move against the B1G from (eventually) getting Texas.
05-22-2017 09:23 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #204
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
An amusing fact from that peer survey is where BYU stands. Only five schools named them as a peer: 3 campuses of the University of Phoenix, BYU-Idaho, and Pepperdine. Not a lot of love there.
05-22-2017 09:31 AM
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Post: #205
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-22-2017 09:23 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I'd be interested in hearing JR's thoughts, but I think the SEC really needs to make a play for Oklahoma, and in order for the SEC to get OU, they can seal the deal by taking OK State. If the SEC stands pat for too long, the B1G could eventually offer membership to both OU and Kansas, which would put their conference on the doorstep of Texas - which could then end up being the move that puts the B1G over the SEC.

Doubling up the Oklahoma market may not be the huge boost the SEC would want, but it would be a protective move against the B1G from (eventually) getting Texas.

I absolutely agree. Even if you can't get Oklahoma for another 7 years strike a deal now for both Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. As one poster said it could lead to an exit negotiation which could get them out earlier. If not, oh well, gives you a few years to plan. And if their interested in any other members, use that leverage to help get the schools out.

Looking at the big 12, I think their is 4 members the SEC would like to have. If you have to take one (OSU) to get another (OU), then you do it. Question becomes when does the cabinet become too full. 16? 18? 20? 24?
05-22-2017 09:49 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #206
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-22-2017 08:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-21-2017 10:40 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-21-2017 07:33 PM)ken d Wrote:  An interesting study done in 2012 sheds a little light on how academics (i.e. University presidents and administrators) view Oklahoma (and vice versa). In the study, school leaders were asked to list the schools they consider to be their peers.

This is the same study in which the University of Phoenix listed Harvard as a peer institution.

Phoenix listed just about everybody. Perhaps I misspoke when I referred to this as a "study" - it would be more appropriately termed a "survey". And to be clear, the schools who participated were not given instructions in how they should define a "peer". As I mentioned earlier, Rutgers wasn't far behind Phoenix in this regard.

So some schools may have listed what might be called "aspirational peers". Schools you want to become peers of, rather than just ones you are already a peer of. I think you could make a case that this is what Oklahoma did when it named every public university in the Big Ten.

This isn't something one can practically draw conclusions from. But you might be able to gain insights into how schools see themselves in relation to others.

That survey was an invitation to universities to offer up public-relations spin for public consumption.

To see who a university really views as its peers, we would need to see internal documents that show which other institutions that university actually compares itself to. If we could ever do that, I think we'd find that, for example, administrators at Oklahoma are not saying internally that their faculty and student data are comparable to that of the University of Michigan.
05-22-2017 10:01 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #207
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
It seems the big 10, sec and PAC 12 are having real battle over Oklahoma. I think the key issue is really not Oklahoma but it's does whoever get Oklahoma also land Texas? I think Texas is perfectly fine in the current big 12 setup but Oklahoma is not. Thus, Oklahoma is the whole key for movement. If the big 10 or sec land both Oklahoma and Texas that union separates itself from all other leagues. I think if the PAC lands Oklahoma and Texas than things balance out with 4 leagues. Ditto balancing things among the leagues if ou and Texas separate.

How any move happen is the big mystery. The sec clearly will not want OU to join the big 10 with say Kansas as a first strike since Texas could than also partner up. Therefore the sec will offer ou and ok state to counter such move By the big 10. If the big 10 lands ou and ku or the sec lands ou and ok state, both leagues next goal would be to land Texas and x to jump to 18. The problem for OU and the other leagues is I doubt Texas wants to work anything out before OU jumps since they like things as is and know they will always have options. So everything goes back to what will OU do? Go for the big 10 solo or stay with ok state. I think in either case OU comes out fine but Ok state might not. I think the best move ou could make if Texas isn't working with them is to partner with Kansas and go to a PAC 16 with ok state and Kansas state. The money will eventually flow to the PAC and with ou and ku + sidekicks in the fold the PAC can target Texas and x for 18. At that point the options for Texas would be

1) join a PAC 18 with Texas tech
2) join a PAC 20 with Texas tech, Houston and x
3) join the big 10 with maybe iowa state or another Texas school
4) join the acc with nd or nd style deal
5) join the sec with x
6) create a new swc
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2017 11:07 AM by bluesox.)
05-22-2017 10:10 AM
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Post: #208
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
How strong of interest does the SEC have in Kansas? Would they take K-State to get Kansas such as OK St/Oklahoma?
05-22-2017 10:17 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #209
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
I could see the PAC 12 offer Kansas and Kansas state combo but never the big 10 or sec. The sec will offer the Oklahoma combo because of OU football and its ties to Texas.
05-22-2017 10:24 AM
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Post: #210
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-22-2017 10:17 AM)StinkyDuck Wrote:  How strong of interest does the SEC have in Kansas? Would they take K-State to get Kansas such as OK St/Oklahoma?

Doubtful. Kansas will improve basketball but get destroyed in football. Academics are a huge plus. I don't think its worth it on their end to add KSU in order to seal the deal. KSU football without Snyder isn't very good, historically. OK State actually can hold its own, athletically, without one single coach and without mandate of Oklahoma.
05-22-2017 10:25 AM
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Post: #211
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-22-2017 09:23 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  I'd be interested in hearing JR's thoughts, but I think the SEC really needs to make a play for Oklahoma, and in order for the SEC to get OU, they can seal the deal by taking OK State. If the SEC stands pat for too long, the B1G could eventually offer membership to both OU and Kansas, which would put their conference on the doorstep of Texas - which could then end up being the move that puts the B1G over the SEC.

Doubling up the Oklahoma market may not be the huge boost the SEC would want, but it would be a protective move against the B1G from (eventually) getting Texas.

You must have been reading the Fluguar tweets.

We've kicked that around for a few years now, especially on the SEC board. But in the past year we have heard this idea from 3 beat writers from the Big 12 region and from Paul Finebaum. While I don't give any of those 4 a great deal of weight I do give such weight to Tony Barnhart who has also suggested the same.

Some of the SEC folks (who have been sold on the market expansion concept) think that doubling down in a small state makes no sense whatsoever.

But before 2010 I was, and remain, a huge proponent of brand additions and schools that increase content value.

The whole market model was an agenda driven device that was used by the networks, one in particular, to break up advertising leverage within states and conferences by utilizing this model to split up large states. You will note that the loss of A&M by the Big 12 probably did more to imperil the situation than the loss of either Colorado, Missouri, or Nebraska. Why? It split the competition within the state of Texas for advertising.

It is also why a move by Cincinnati to the ACC would have an impact on Ohio, though not nearly as much as A&M's move had on Texas. It's not like Ohio State or Texas suddenly have less draw, but that advertisers might be able to reach a whole state through a reduced rate by utilizing a competing interest. The total amount of advertising might increase but the share going to pay another conference where there was none before helps the network and reduces the leverage of the conference with regards to what they make off of rates.

So making sure that large states which have been solidly locked into one conference with their P5 schools were targeted for division by the market model was the goal. The market model was never intended to last because the subscription fees promised duplicated the population of the state in payouts. Once the split up to different conferences happened for that state's schools a new pay model was going to be introduced, one based on % of the market viewers but still paid by subscription fees. But if Florida could be split (FSU to the ACC in '91 assured FSU would not pair with Florida in the SEC), Texas A&M to the SEC in 2012, the push for Virginia Tech and N.C. State to the SEC in 2012 all would have split large states. Or in FSU's case prevented the SEC gaining leverage in a huge state.

California was immune because of geography.

Before cord cutting brought a demise to this model the idea was that once states were divided in allegiance it would accomplish several things all benefiting the networks:
1. We would have moved to a subscription fee model that paid a conference by the % of households that ratings showed watched their conference, instead of paying that conference for all of the states cable households and then duplicating that payout to another conference sharing that state. By moving to a % of households pay method the networks would essentially pay just once for the total households subscribing. This of course would have reduced the overhead of networks and reduced the conference payouts when the old contracts were up. So in effect the market model payout was a tease to get the big markets to split up.

2. The networks would have increased the number of interested parties with regards to those large population states having been divided into different conferences. Now you might have two whole regions that watch one OOC games between large conferences even though the game was simply between two state foes. Thereby you increase both the scope of the advertising and the number of viewers which increases the profits of the networks.

3. You gain a second and less leveraged angle to enter a state for advertising if there is just one school from that state in another major conference (like A&M is to Texas).

So if you replaced total market subscription pay outs with % of market subscription payouts you get a reduced overhead. But if you replace % of market subscription payouts with actual payouts for those viewing you kill the market model all together. What do the those actually viewing tend to watch? Their teams to be sure, but then the most competitive games of the week. A conference can't control the former, but a conference stacked with competitive teams will come out on top in actual viewers most every time.

In 2012 which were the more competitive additions Missouri/A&M or Maryland/Rutgers? Last year the Big 10 Network's valuation as presented by SNL Kagan fell from 1.59 billion dollars to 1.142 billion. That was a drop in valuation of 39.2%. The SECN fell from 4.77 billion to 4.692 billion, or a drop of 1.67%. Now certainly not all of the BTN's drop was from cord cutting, but almost all of the SEC's drop was. The BTN paid out profit sharing amounts equal to about their total drop but cord cutting seemed to hurt the BTN more than the SEC. Why? Probably content.

The fight for Oklahoma is a fight that clearly will be over content value for the Big 10 versus the SEC. Both conferences are lowering standards in pursuit of Oklahoma. Oklahoma would be 16th in a 16 member Big 10 in academic standing and the only school in it to have never been in the AAU. So offering OU is a lowering of the Big 10's academic standing. The SEC knows that Boren leans Big 10 but as a former governor who is tied to OSU as well that should the SEC offer OSU along with OU (even though OSU would be 15th in a 16 member SEC and OU would be 7th, or slightly above our academic MEAN) that the SEC stands a much better shot at getting OU. So while the pair lowers our academics as well taking both to get OU means more money, and it cuts the ability of our chief competitor to gain ground.

With the SEC offering both however the mitigating factor is that for the last decade the Cowboys have been near the top of the Big 12 most of those years. They have content value and are competitive in all revenue sports and in non revenue sports as well. The don't add enough to cover their entry, but with their content and OU adds it's workable. If the SEC adds Oklahoma we not only pick up a state, but a higher % of DFW which increases our ad payouts in Texas since DFW is a monster market. That addition would cement the SEC as the leader in revenue moving forward.

Last year we outearned the Big 10 by 150 million in revenue as a conference. The average Gross Revenue per school payout was almost 14 million more when T3 was added in (T3 in most conferences doesn't go through the conference but is paid directly to the school and therefore is not accounted for in Total Conference Revenue).

In 2018 the Big 10 will close the gap by 5 million a year per school in revenue with their new TV contracts. Adding Texas and OU would close another 5 million in that gap. But if the SEC adds either Oklahoma or Texas the Big 10 can't catch us and we not only grow another 2.5 million in per school payouts for the addition, but our SECN revenue and T1 & T2 revenue go up because of addition ad revenue particularly in DFW. If the Big 10 can land either Texas or Oklahoma then we stay essentially in the same position that we will be in at the close of the 2018-9 season.

The catch here is that Texas probably isn't in play for the Big 10. So the game for the whole enchilada in revenue distribution (which helps with recruiting and facilities) is the competition over Oklahoma. This is precisely why if the SEC feels it has no shot at Texas they will absolutely offer the pair of Oklahoma schools.

Tony Barnhart saying so is relevant because he doesn't just beat his gums. He has to be confident in information before he tosses something out there. He is trusted with confidential information by the SEC office and by the ACC regularly and does not betray confidences and doesn't need to drive hits or be a sensationalist as he is well read, and listened to. We'll all miss him when he is gone. But even if Barnhart had not weighed in the preponderance of parties aware of this struggle were right.

Kansas doesn't really add to the Big 10's bottom line in a significant way. They will increase the content value of Big 10 basketball and since the Big 10 is deep in basketball that will be significant. But in the Big 10 even basketball is only 20% of the total revenue. So Kansas is a nice travel mate but hardly the football content multiplier they want. Oklahoma is the game for them hands down.

So the war is over Norman, but the SEC will play the full state press with OSU and the Big 10 will play the academic association card and both will push hard.

It's just that in the back of my mind I have to wonder if the best thing for the sport would be for Texas and Oklahoma to head west to the PAC so that a relative balance is maintained. If neither the SEC nor Big 10 land Oklahoma and both miss out on Texas we probably keep a P4. If Texas and Oklahoma are split between the Big 10 and SEC the gap with the PAC and ACC grows and we likely head for a reduced P2 of closer to 48 schools than 65 and what would essentially be 2 leagues as opposed to 4 large conferences. If one conference gains both the other conference will push for a merger (PAC/Big 10 vs ACC/SEC) to gain leverage.

So as an SEC guy I would love to see us land a historic program like the Sooners. But as a college football fan who has lived in all 4 regions and enjoys the flavor, or what's left of it, in those distinct regions, I would be totally comfortable with the PAC winning big on this one.
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2017 11:06 AM by JRsec.)
05-22-2017 10:36 AM
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bluesox Offline
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Post: #212
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
Boren got a tough decision. I do wonder if the big 10 and PAC 12 could try to team up with say

Big 10 - Ou, KU
PAC 12- Texas, Texas tech, ok state, Kansas state

That outcome would be very beneficial to each league and take care of state politics and partner the big 10 and PAC 12 some. There would be 4 leftover big 12 schools who might get a look from the sec or acc but if not end up in the aac. I could see espn put uconn, wvu and cincy into an 18 team acc so the sec and acc are at 32 teams to match the big 10 and PAC 16 at 32
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2017 11:21 AM by bluesox.)
05-22-2017 11:18 AM
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Post: #213
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
I just don't see ok state and K-State going to the Pac 12 without their big Brothers even with Texas. To me it would be to expand just to expand as I don't see those 2 bringing enough to the table on their own.
05-22-2017 11:25 AM
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bluesox Offline
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RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
Texas would probably prefer tcu and Houston in a PAC 16. Yet, if ok state doesn't have a good home boren might not want to join the big 10 solo so the puzzle doesn't work. Of course, this assumes the big 10 and PAC 12 were trying to team up and find a compromise by splitting Texas and ou. I have a hard time seeing ou split with ok state if the sec invites the combo or ou turning down a big 10 invite but both can't happen.
05-22-2017 11:44 AM
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RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
Texas would pull Tech and TCU to the P16. Those two schools have aligned themselves with Texas. The 16th school would come down most likely between Rice (AAU, elite school), New Mexico (complete the 4 corners, flagship, R1) or Colorado State (invest in a growth state, also R1).

My WAG is Rice would get the call for Houston market (without hindering UT recruiting since they are more like a Northwestern/Stanford/Vandy type student athlete), and more important to have a Texas version of the Stanford-Cal academic axis with Rice-Texas. TCU gives you DFW access, and at least is very highly selective and not actually a religious school despite the name, with none of the issues of Baylor and BYU. Tech has been the long suffering brother of Texas, and is more westward.

New Mexico just hasn't done enough, and I think Colorado State is too close to Colorado. Rice being preferable to the Chancellors and Presidents of the P12 kills even a whiff of a chance for Houston (which there is none).

If Oklahoma bows to political pressure to bring OSU along, heading to the SEC instead of heading the desires of the faculty for the long term standing of the school by going B1G, then the B1G will be searching for a 2nd school to go with Kansas. They really want an ACC school, but those are locked down until the middle of the 2030s. The realistic options are UConn and Iowa State. My gut tells me they would take the Huskies, since it would add a big chunk of the New England market.

This would leave Iowa State, Kansas State, Baylor and West Virginia. West Virginia and ESPN would likely try to get the ACC to take them - that is going to be a hard sell. But for the B12 to dissolve and void any GOR penalties they need to get WV or ISU a landing spot.

The question is will the B12 dissolve if just 3 schools are left, or if 4 schools are left do they reap the exit cash, and raid 4 schools from the American plus maybe BYU and Colorado State?
05-22-2017 02:31 PM
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Post: #216
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-22-2017 02:31 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Texas would pull Tech and TCU to the P16. Those two schools have aligned themselves with Texas. The 16th school would come down most likely between Rice (AAU, elite school), New Mexico (complete the 4 corners, flagship, R1) or Colorado State (invest in a growth state, also R1).

My WAG is Rice would get the call for Houston market (without hindering UT recruiting since they are more like a Northwestern/Stanford/Vandy type student athlete), and more important to have a Texas version of the Stanford-Cal academic axis with Rice-Texas. TCU gives you DFW access, and at least is very highly selective and not actually a religious school despite the name, with none of the issues of Baylor and BYU. Tech has been the long suffering brother of Texas, and is more westward.

New Mexico just hasn't done enough, and I think Colorado State is too close to Colorado. Rice being preferable to the Chancellors and Presidents of the P12 kills even a whiff of a chance for Houston (which there is none).

If Oklahoma bows to political pressure to bring OSU along, heading to the SEC instead of heading the desires of the faculty for the long term standing of the school by going B1G, then the B1G will be searching for a 2nd school to go with Kansas. They really want an ACC school, but those are locked down until the middle of the 2030s. The realistic options are UConn and Iowa State. My gut tells me they would take the Huskies, since it would add a big chunk of the New England market.

This would leave Iowa State, Kansas State, Baylor and West Virginia. West Virginia and ESPN would likely try to get the ACC to take them - that is going to be a hard sell. But for the B12 to dissolve and void any GOR penalties they need to get WV or ISU a landing spot.

The question is will the B12 dissolve if just 3 schools are left, or if 4 schools are left do they reap the exit cash, and raid 4 schools from the American plus maybe BYU and Colorado State?

There will not be any political pressure on OU to bring OSU along.
05-22-2017 02:50 PM
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Post: #217
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
JR, great well thought out post. However, I respectfully question two things.

1---I do not see OU lowering the standards of the SEC. The Big10...yes, but I do not see it with the SEC.

2-- I do not see how Texas is not in play for the Big10.
05-22-2017 03:02 PM
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RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-22-2017 10:36 AM)JRsec Wrote:  The fight for Oklahoma is a fight that clearly will be over content value for the Big 10 versus the SEC. Both conferences are lowering standards in pursuit of Oklahoma. Oklahoma would be 16th in a 16 member Big 10 in academic standing and the only school in it to have never been in the AAU. So offering OU is a lowering of the Big 10's academic standing. The SEC knows that Boren leans Big 10 but as a former governor who is tied to OSU as well that should the SEC offer OSU along with OU (even though OSU would be 15th in a 16 member SEC and OU would be 7th, or slightly above our academic MEAN) that the SEC stands a much better shot at getting OU. So while the pair lowers our academics as well taking both to get OU means more money, and it cuts the ability of our chief competitor to gain ground.

With the SEC offering both however the mitigating factor is that for the last decade the Cowboys have been near the top of the Big 12 most of those years. They have content value and are competitive in all revenue sports and in non revenue sports as well. The don't add enough to cover their entry, but with their content and OU adds it's workable. If the SEC adds Oklahoma we not only pick up a state, but a higher % of DFW which increases our ad payouts in Texas since DFW is a monster market. That addition would cement the SEC as the leader in revenue moving forward.

Last year we outearned the Big 10 by 150 million in revenue as a conference. The average Gross Revenue per school payout was almost 14 million more when T3 was added in (T3 in most conferences doesn't go through the conference but is paid directly to the school and therefore is not accounted for in Total Conference Revenue).

In 2018 the Big 10 will close the gap by 5 million a year per school in revenue with their new TV contracts. Adding Texas and OU would close another 5 million in that gap. But if the SEC adds either Oklahoma or Texas the Big 10 can't catch us and we not only grow another 2.5 million in per school payouts for the addition, but our SECN revenue and T1 & T2 revenue go up because of addition ad revenue particularly in DFW. If the Big 10 can land either Texas or Oklahoma then we stay essentially in the same position that we will be in at the close of the 2018-9 season.

The catch here is that Texas probably isn't in play for the Big 10. So the game for the whole enchilada in revenue distribution (which helps with recruiting and facilities) is the competition over Oklahoma. This is precisely why if the SEC feels it has no shot at Texas they will absolutely offer the pair of Oklahoma schools.

Tony Barnhart saying so is relevant because he doesn't just beat his gums. He has to be confident in information before he tosses something out there. He is trusted with confidential information by the SEC office and by the ACC regularly and does not betray confidences and doesn't need to drive hits or be a sensationalist as he is well read, and listened to. We'll all miss him when he is gone. But even if Barnhart had not weighed in the preponderance of parties aware of this struggle were right.

Kansas doesn't really add to the Big 10's bottom line in a significant way. They will increase the content value of Big 10 basketball and since the Big 10 is deep in basketball that will be significant. But in the Big 10 even basketball is only 20% of the total revenue. So Kansas is a nice travel mate but hardly the football content multiplier they want. Oklahoma is the game for them hands down.

So the war is over Norman, but the SEC will play the full state press with OSU and the Big 10 will play the academic association card and both will push hard.

It's just that in the back of my mind I have to wonder if the best thing for the sport would be for Texas and Oklahoma to head west to the PAC so that a relative balance is maintained. If neither the SEC nor Big 10 land Oklahoma and both miss out on Texas we probably keep a P4. If Texas and Oklahoma are split between the Big 10 and SEC the gap with the PAC and ACC grows and we likely head for a reduced P2 of closer to 48 schools than 65 and what would essentially be 2 leagues as opposed to 4 large conferences. If one conference gains both the other conference will push for a merger (PAC/Big 10 vs ACC/SEC) to gain leverage.

So as an SEC guy I would love to see us land a historic program like the Sooners. But as a college football fan who has lived in all 4 regions and enjoys the flavor, or what's left of it, in those distinct regions, I would be totally comfortable with the PAC winning big on this one.

Thanks for this great post. I feel like I understand the SEC stance much better.

While I see the Texas draw to the Pac-12 with OU and 2 others down the road, I also see the "Cowboys in the NFC East" paradigm working for the Longhorns. Texas DOES have zero interest in the SEC (especially with TAMU there). If OU and OkSt go to the SEC, Texas' hands would be tied, if you ask me. They can't go with three "sloppy seconds" schools to the Pac-12 and expect to maintain their prestige academically and athletically. At that point, heading to the Big Ten with Kansas is the strongest play for them.

It's not "perfect." If you ask me, the perfect plan would have been Nebraska/OU/TAMU/UT/Rutgers to the Big Ten back in 2011 (but Texas had a Tech problem back then and--if they are honest--weren't ready to risk losing all their power and be 1/5 of CFB's biggest landscape-shift in history). But here we are.
05-22-2017 03:23 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #219
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-22-2017 03:02 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  JR, great well thought out post. However, I respectfully question two things.

1---I do not see OU lowering the standards of the SEC. The Big10...yes, but I do not see it with the SEC.

2-- I do not see how Texas is not in play for the Big10.

1. The "Pair" of Oklahoma schools lowers the SEC mean academically. I distinctly said that OU would be around 7th position in the SEC with regards to academics and research. It's OSU at 15th (just above MSU but only by some metrics) that makes the pair of them lower our MEAN.

2. Texas is under obligation to ESPN until 2031 or six years past the GOR. I'm sure that could be negotiated but if ESPN thought the top product might move to a FOX held conference I question ESPN's desire to be cooperative in such a move. Also if Oklahoma headed to the SEC with OSU I'm not sure that Texas would head Big 10 even then. Texas, Kansas, Iowa State and Tech might make a reasonable grouping for the PAC. But certainly all of that is debatable.
05-22-2017 03:32 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #220
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
There is some great dialogue going on here.

It appears to me that OU and Okla St to the SEC is the savviest move for both parties. Instate political pressures are taken care of and the conference's biggest competitor (the Big Ten) is not only deprived of the name brand Sooner content but also gets put in a position where no valuable brands can be grabbed in the Big 12 diaspora. Academically Iowa St, Kansas, and Texas are the only ones that qualify and the first two don't add any revenue and for Texas the Big Ten opponents they'd face are uninteresting.

The potential fall out and impact on other conferences also works to the SECs favor. Texas has 3 legitimate options:

1. Carry on in the Big 12 by adding 2 replacements/holding at 8. The Big 12 is even weaker and even less likely to put a team in the playoffs unless that champ is an undefeated or 1 loss Texas increasing the odds that the SEC lands 2 teams in the playoffs.

2. Texas gets a Notre Dame deal with the ACC. A P5 conference gets eliminated the next time a CFP deal gets renegotiated.

3. Texas takes a cohort to the Pac 12. A rival league gets the gem of Austin but also some egg on their face because it likely means taking at minimum Texas Tech but also either a Baylor/TCU or Kansas/K St combo to seal the deal. It still works out ok because the Big 12 is left gutted and financially the SEC still stays way ahead of its competitors.

A 4th option might also exist and that is the SEC taking OU/Ok St leaves the door open for Texas and Texas Tech to join as members 17 & 18 if A&M is willing to allow it.
05-22-2017 05:31 PM
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