Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
Author Message
JRsec Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 12,809
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 579
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #161
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-18-2017 06:36 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(05-15-2017 11:20 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I also think OU and WVU to the SEC is far more likely than OU and OSU, under the assumption Texas and KU go to the B1G. I just can't see two schools from a smaller and demographically challenged great plains state going to the SEC, and one of them neither a flagship, nor a R1 institution, whose biggest value is a game against OU in November, which under SEC scheduling would be allowed as an OOC game (like Clemson- So Car, FSU-Florida, Georgia Tech-Georgia, Louisville-Kentucky).

I just can't see a non-flagship school gaining admission to the SEC. They don't have to take a 2nd tier school from any state, and they don't have to take an R2 institution.

Well FWIW Tony Barnhart has said if the SEC expands it will go hard after OU and OSU.

Tony Barnhart is the most trusted reporter for the SEC office. Tony knew a month in advance of the Missouri announcement, in fact prerecorded it and still kept his mouth shut. I have more respect for him than any other SEC/ACC beat writer. Did you have a link?
05-18-2017 07:23 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUmustangs Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,954
Joined: Jul 2004
Reputation: 60
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #162
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-18-2017 07:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 06:36 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(05-15-2017 11:20 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I also think OU and WVU to the SEC is far more likely than OU and OSU, under the assumption Texas and KU go to the B1G. I just can't see two schools from a smaller and demographically challenged great plains state going to the SEC, and one of them neither a flagship, nor a R1 institution, whose biggest value is a game against OU in November, which under SEC scheduling would be allowed as an OOC game (like Clemson- So Car, FSU-Florida, Georgia Tech-Georgia, Louisville-Kentucky).

I just can't see a non-flagship school gaining admission to the SEC. They don't have to take a 2nd tier school from any state, and they don't have to take an R2 institution.

Well FWIW Tony Barnhart has said if the SEC expands it will go hard after OU and OSU.

Tony Barnhart is the most trusted reporter for the SEC office. Tony knew a month in advance of the Missouri announcement, in fact prerecorded it and still kept his mouth shut. I have more respect for him than any other SEC/ACC beat writer. Did you have a link?

No, I don't. I figured that you were probably aware of it.
05-18-2017 07:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 12,809
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 579
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #163
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-18-2017 07:47 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 07:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-18-2017 06:36 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(05-15-2017 11:20 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I also think OU and WVU to the SEC is far more likely than OU and OSU, under the assumption Texas and KU go to the B1G. I just can't see two schools from a smaller and demographically challenged great plains state going to the SEC, and one of them neither a flagship, nor a R1 institution, whose biggest value is a game against OU in November, which under SEC scheduling would be allowed as an OOC game (like Clemson- So Car, FSU-Florida, Georgia Tech-Georgia, Louisville-Kentucky).

I just can't see a non-flagship school gaining admission to the SEC. They don't have to take a 2nd tier school from any state, and they don't have to take an R2 institution.

Well FWIW Tony Barnhart has said if the SEC expands it will go hard after OU and OSU.

Tony Barnhart is the most trusted reporter for the SEC office. Tony knew a month in advance of the Missouri announcement, in fact prerecorded it and still kept his mouth shut. I have more respect for him than any other SEC/ACC beat writer. Did you have a link?

No, I don't. I figured that you were probably aware of it.

Did you hear it on his radio spot or see it in print? It will help me search. If Barnhart speaks I listen, but he's like me and getting a bit older and doesn't do as much as he once did.
05-18-2017 08:03 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
SMUmustangs Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,954
Joined: Jul 2004
Reputation: 60
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #164
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
It has been a couple of months. IIRC it was a video. Might have been from his TV show or an interview.
(This post was last modified: 05-18-2017 10:05 PM by SMUmustangs.)
05-18-2017 10:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
micahandme Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 16
Joined: May 2017
Reputation: 6
I Root For: PSU
Location:
Post: #165
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
As for "clean and easy" scenarios go...I like OU and OkSt being the "first movers" to the SEC.

They fit the SEC culture...solidify its presence/claim to the state of Texas (and Oklahoma, obviously)...and they allow the SEC to have a new "west" pod that helps overall balance. Not only are many rivalries preserved...geography is preserved...and the "expansion" teams get to keep some of their natural connections.

OU/OkSt/Mizzou/TAMU
LSU/Arky/Miss/MSU
Bama/Auburn/UT/Vandy
UK/USCe/UF/UGA

This move would then clear the way for UT and Kansas to go whichever direction they choose--Pac-12 with two other regional,non-religious schools (TTech? Kansas State? Iowa State?) OR Big Ten alone.

For the Big Ten...the pods work out nicely. (Yes, Texas is still traveling a ton...but pods in the Olympic sports would help minimize that travel. Pod opponents twice...everybody else once, rotating home/away each season...18 games clean and easy. Or, if there are fewer "conference games" for a certain sport, your pod once and rotate through the other pods evenly--9 games.)

UT/Nebraska/Kansas/Illinois
Minny/Wiscy/Iowa/MSU
OSU/UM/NW/Purdue
Indiana/PSU/UMD/Rutgers
05-19-2017 06:05 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
westwolf Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 653
Joined: Apr 2010
Reputation: 8
I Root For: CFB
Location:
Post: #166
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-19-2017 06:05 AM)micahandme Wrote:  As for "clean and easy" scenarios go...I like OU and OkSt being the "first movers" to the SEC.

They fit the SEC culture...solidify its presence/claim to the state of Texas (and Oklahoma, obviously)...and they allow the SEC to have a new "west" pod that helps overall balance. Not only are many rivalries preserved...geography is preserved...and the "expansion" teams get to keep some of their natural connections.

OU/OkSt/Mizzou/TAMU
LSU/Arky/Miss/MSU
Bama/Auburn/UT/Vandy
UK/USCe/UF/UGA

This move would then clear the way for UT and Kansas to go whichever direction they choose--Pac-12 with two other regional,non-religious schools (TTech? Kansas State? Iowa State?) OR Big Ten alone.

For the Big Ten...the pods work out nicely. (Yes, Texas is still traveling a ton...but pods in the Olympic sports would help minimize that travel. Pod opponents twice...everybody else once, rotating home/away each season...18 games clean and easy. Or, if there are fewer "conference games" for a certain sport, your pod once and rotate through the other pods evenly--9 games.)

UT/Nebraska/Kansas/Illinois
Minny/Wiscy/Iowa/MSU
OSU/UM/NW/Purdue
Indiana/PSU/UMD/Rutgers

This works better:

UT, Kan, Neb, Iowa
Minn, Wisc, NW, Ill
Mich, MSU, OSU, Pur
Ind, PSU, Rut, UMD
05-19-2017 08:34 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,327
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 240
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #167
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-19-2017 06:05 AM)micahandme Wrote:  As for "clean and easy" scenarios go...I like OU and OkSt being the "first movers" to the SEC.

They fit the SEC culture...solidify its presence/claim to the state of Texas (and Oklahoma, obviously)...and they allow the SEC to have a new "west" pod that helps overall balance. Not only are many rivalries preserved...geography is preserved...and the "expansion" teams get to keep some of their natural connections.

OU/OkSt/Mizzou/TAMU
LSU/Arky/Miss/MSU
Bama/Auburn/UT/Vandy
UK/USCe/UF/UGA

This move would then clear the way for UT and Kansas to go whichever direction they choose--Pac-12 with two other regional,non-religious schools (TTech? Kansas State? Iowa State?) OR Big Ten alone.

For the Big Ten...the pods work out nicely. (Yes, Texas is still traveling a ton...but pods in the Olympic sports would help minimize that travel. Pod opponents twice...everybody else once, rotating home/away each season...18 games clean and easy. Or, if there are fewer "conference games" for a certain sport, your pod once and rotate through the other pods evenly--9 games.)

UT/Nebraska/Kansas/Illinois
Minny/Wiscy/Iowa/MSU
OSU/UM/NW/Purdue
Indiana/PSU/UMD/Rutgers

I'm with you on your first two paragraphs. After that, not so much, for reasons I stated earlier.

For Oklahoma, a move to the SEC likely means that league goes to a 9 game schedule. If the RRR game with Texas becomes an OOC game, they need for their other mandatory rivalry game against OK State to be a conference game.

As for the B1G, they don't need Texas and all the problems having them would cause, and they really don't need Kansas either. Maybe if they could get other P5 conferences to approve pod scheduling for football, it would be a little easier. But I don't think any of them are all that interested in helping out the B1G.

Some PAC members may want to expand into Texas to help their network. But they would have to overcome the objections of the four Mountain time zone schools who joined the PAC because they wanted their focus to be toward California instead of Texas. They have enough votes to block such a move.

I think the remaining 8 B12 schools would have to reconsider the expansion scenarios they just rejected. Maybe they didn't add enough value to a 10 team conference, but if the alternative is to remain at 8 members, maybe the math changes enough. It would all depend on how much ESPN and Fox would want to reduce their payout by as a result of the loss of OU and OSU.

I could see the B12 just adding one more member to get back to an 8 game league schedule and stopping there. I have no idea who that might be, because there are no options where the pluses clearly outweigh the minuses.

My question would be: How soon would OU and OSU move to the SEC?
05-19-2017 09:23 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bluesox Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,487
Joined: Jan 2006
Reputation: 54
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #168
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
I don't think the sec or the PAC 12 have the option to take a solo OU. It's either offer OU and Ok state combo or watch Ou go to the big 10 if they leave the big 12. There could Be a huge risk, maybe fatal to the sec and PAC 12 if OU goes to the big 10 since that could also send Texas to the big 10. Or it could play out with ou and ku to the big 10 and Texas plus 3 to the PAC 12. In that case, you are looking at a stable power 4 with a very good leftover league or 2
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2017 09:37 AM by bluesox.)
05-19-2017 09:31 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 12,809
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 579
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #169
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-19-2017 09:23 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 06:05 AM)micahandme Wrote:  As for "clean and easy" scenarios go...I like OU and OkSt being the "first movers" to the SEC.

They fit the SEC culture...solidify its presence/claim to the state of Texas (and Oklahoma, obviously)...and they allow the SEC to have a new "west" pod that helps overall balance. Not only are many rivalries preserved...geography is preserved...and the "expansion" teams get to keep some of their natural connections.

OU/OkSt/Mizzou/TAMU
LSU/Arky/Miss/MSU
Bama/Auburn/UT/Vandy
UK/USCe/UF/UGA

This move would then clear the way for UT and Kansas to go whichever direction they choose--Pac-12 with two other regional,non-religious schools (TTech? Kansas State? Iowa State?) OR Big Ten alone.

For the Big Ten...the pods work out nicely. (Yes, Texas is still traveling a ton...but pods in the Olympic sports would help minimize that travel. Pod opponents twice...everybody else once, rotating home/away each season...18 games clean and easy. Or, if there are fewer "conference games" for a certain sport, your pod once and rotate through the other pods evenly--9 games.)

UT/Nebraska/Kansas/Illinois
Minny/Wiscy/Iowa/MSU
OSU/UM/NW/Purdue
Indiana/PSU/UMD/Rutgers

I'm with you on your first two paragraphs. After that, not so much, for reasons I stated earlier.

For Oklahoma, a move to the SEC likely means that league goes to a 9 game schedule. If the RRR game with Texas becomes an OOC game, they need for their other mandatory rivalry game against OK State to be a conference game.

As for the B1G, they don't need Texas and all the problems having them would cause, and they really don't need Kansas either. Maybe if they could get other P5 conferences to approve pod scheduling for football, it would be a little easier. But I don't think any of them are all that interested in helping out the B1G.

Some PAC members may want to expand into Texas to help their network. But they would have to overcome the objections of the four Mountain time zone schools who joined the PAC because they wanted their focus to be toward California instead of Texas. They have enough votes to block such a move.

I think the remaining 8 B12 schools would have to reconsider the expansion scenarios they just rejected. Maybe they didn't add enough value to a 10 team conference, but if the alternative is to remain at 8 members, maybe the math changes enough. It would all depend on how much ESPN and Fox would want to reduce their payout by as a result of the loss of OU and OSU.

I could see the B12 just adding one more member to get back to an 8 game league schedule and stopping there. I have no idea who that might be, because there are no options where the pluses clearly outweigh the minuses.

My question would be: How soon would OU and OSU move to the SEC?

I have heard several options but don't necessarily believe or trust the reasoning.
I have heard that the State of Oklahoma would push a Sovereign Immunity as a path to reducing the economic impact to just exit fees. This might take years and could just as easily prove unsuccessful so I find it doubtful.

The better possibility would be the networks claiming diminished value should Baylor be expelled or hit with some really punitive sanctions. While not likely (unfortunately) it seems more likely than the first and the contract does stipulate content for 10 schools and agreement upon a 10th at this point might be hard to attain and the networks may or may not want to keep those contracts.

The earliest date all things being equal would be for OU and OSU to put in a notice of intent to leave in 2023 and serve the last two years until the end of the GOR. That way the avoid the exit fee and wait out the GOR.

They could risk an earlier announcement 2021 and could probably afford a negotiated exit at that point. But that's a best guess. Of course their leaving could trigger a run and that might the negotiated settlement easier.

But I agree with the reasoning expressed so far. Without OU is KU really worth it to the Big 10? I don't think so. They help with the Big 10's need which is a football brand to increase their content value in the conference. And the Big 10 already carries most of Kansas's major markets. So I don't think so.

To keep the RRR in the face of larger conferences should UT and OU find themselves under different logos would require OSU to travel with OU. That leaves the PAC and the SEC as the only two conferences that might take both of them. Whichever did might also attract Texas.

With Notre Dame strongly affiliated and Oklahoma off the market the pressure will never be greater for Texas to move. If the Horns do move then realignment for the foreseeable future is over and we likely move to a champs only scenario which is what ultimately will make N.D. decide.
05-19-2017 12:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,327
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 240
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #170
RE: Berry Tramel: Would the Big Ten welcome OU?
(05-19-2017 12:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 09:23 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2017 06:05 AM)micahandme Wrote:  As for "clean and easy" scenarios go...I like OU and OkSt being the "first movers" to the SEC.

They fit the SEC culture...solidify its presence/claim to the state of Texas (and Oklahoma, obviously)...and they allow the SEC to have a new "west" pod that helps overall balance. Not only are many rivalries preserved...geography is preserved...and the "expansion" teams get to keep some of their natural connections.

OU/OkSt/Mizzou/TAMU
LSU/Arky/Miss/MSU
Bama/Auburn/UT/Vandy
UK/USCe/UF/UGA

This move would then clear the way for UT and Kansas to go whichever direction they choose--Pac-12 with two other regional,non-religious schools (TTech? Kansas State? Iowa State?) OR Big Ten alone.

For the Big Ten...the pods work out nicely. (Yes, Texas is still traveling a ton...but pods in the Olympic sports would help minimize that travel. Pod opponents twice...everybody else once, rotating home/away each season...18 games clean and easy. Or, if there are fewer "conference games" for a certain sport, your pod once and rotate through the other pods evenly--9 games.)

UT/Nebraska/Kansas/Illinois
Minny/Wiscy/Iowa/MSU
OSU/UM/NW/Purdue
Indiana/PSU/UMD/Rutgers

I'm with you on your first two paragraphs. After that, not so much, for reasons I stated earlier.

For Oklahoma, a move to the SEC likely means that league goes to a 9 game schedule. If the RRR game with Texas becomes an OOC game, they need for their other mandatory rivalry game against OK State to be a conference game.

As for the B1G, they don't need Texas and all the problems having them would cause, and they really don't need Kansas either. Maybe if they could get other P5 conferences to approve pod scheduling for football, it would be a little easier. But I don't think any of them are all that interested in helping out the B1G.

Some PAC members may want to expand into Texas to help their network. But they would have to overcome the objections of the four Mountain time zone schools who joined the PAC because they wanted their focus to be toward California instead of Texas. They have enough votes to block such a move.

I think the remaining 8 B12 schools would have to reconsider the expansion scenarios they just rejected. Maybe they didn't add enough value to a 10 team conference, but if the alternative is to remain at 8 members, maybe the math changes enough. It would all depend on how much ESPN and Fox would want to reduce their payout by as a result of the loss of OU and OSU.

I could see the B12 just adding one more member to get back to an 8 game league schedule and stopping there. I have no idea who that might be, because there are no options where the pluses clearly outweigh the minuses.

My question would be: How soon would OU and OSU move to the SEC?

I have heard several options but don't necessarily believe or trust the reasoning.
I have heard that the State of Oklahoma would push a Sovereign Immunity as a path to reducing the economic impact to just exit fees. This might take years and could just as easily prove unsuccessful so I find it doubtful.

The better possibility would be the networks claiming diminished value should Baylor be expelled or hit with some really punitive sanctions. While not likely (unfortunately) it seems more likely than the first and the contract does stipulate content for 10 schools and agreement upon a 10th at this point might be hard to attain and the networks may or may not want to keep those contracts.

The earliest date all things being equal would be for OU and OSU to put in a notice of intent to leave in 2023 and serve the last two years until the end of the GOR. That way the avoid the exit fee and wait out the GOR.

They could risk an earlier announcement 2021 and could probably afford a negotiated exit at that point. But that's a best guess. Of course their leaving could trigger a run and that might the negotiated settlement easier.

But I agree with the reasoning expressed so far. Without OU is KU really worth it to the Big 10? I don't think so. They help with the Big 10's need which is a football brand to increase their content value in the conference. And the Big 10 already carries most of Kansas's major markets. So I don't think so.

To keep the RRR in the face of larger conferences should UT and OU find themselves under different logos would require OSU to travel with OU. That leaves the PAC and the SEC as the only two conferences that might take both of them. Whichever did might also attract Texas.

With Notre Dame strongly affiliated and Oklahoma off the market the pressure will never be greater for Texas to move. If the Horns do move then realignment for the foreseeable future is over and we likely move to a champs only scenario which is what ultimately will make N.D. decide.

As I look at UT's options, I don't see one that gives them fully what I think they want. I believe they want to be viewed as an academic peer of highly regarded universities. Specifically, of eastern universities. The PAC has a few schools (like Cal and Stanford) that would satisfy that desire. There are other excellent schools in the PAC, but they aren't necessarily the names you think of unless you live on the west coast.

A lot of those schools are in the ACC (like Georgia Tech, UNC, Virginia, Duke, Pitt, Miami). But I don't believe the ACC really wants them and their baggage, especially if OU is off the table. The B1G has a bunch of schools that suit their eye, but I don't think it's a slam dunk that they would get an invite there either.

There are no G5 schools that are both academic elite and top shelf athletically as well. Adding schools from the G5 to have a CCG had no appeal for them, and I don't think adding them to get back to 10 (or 12) would either. If they are stuck in a B12 minus OU, they might as well consider adding someone like BYU for football only just to get to an 8 game league schedule without adding any inconvenience in Olympic sport travel.

My crystal ball says no P5 realignment activity for about five years, and UT stays in the Big 12 even then, where they can be (or believe they are) the big dog.
05-19-2017 02:33 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2017 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2017 MyBB Group.