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MVC official announcement: Valpo gets the only invitation
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MissouriStateBears Online
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Post: #131
RE: MVC official announcement: Valpo gets the only invitation
(07-20-2017 02:46 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 09:43 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 12:31 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(07-19-2017 08:32 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(07-19-2017 04:05 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  At this point, there's not much of a difference between the Valley and Horizon. It's a lateral move.

Valley has better facilities, attendance, budgets, television deal and better all-around sports league.

But just barely. It's like the difference between eating at IHOP over Denny's. If you want, then the difference between shopping at Kroger over Wal-Mart for groceries.

No its not. There is still a big difference between the MVC and Horizon.

I disagree other than that the Valley is better. But losing Wichita and Creighton means it's not what it was.

And again the main reason the Valley is better is because they took Valpo. Any other factors like TV and attendance only help so much. If you asked a fan that only tunes in March which conference UIC or Loyola is given the choice of only these two leagues, they'd be throwing darts.

No the Valley is better overall than Horizon even if we had took a different team than Valpo.
07-20-2017 02:59 PM
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Post: #132
RE: MVC official announcement: Valpo gets the only invitation
(07-20-2017 02:59 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 02:46 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 09:43 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(07-20-2017 12:31 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(07-19-2017 08:32 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Valley has better facilities, attendance, budgets, television deal and better all-around sports league.

But just barely. It's like the difference between eating at IHOP over Denny's. If you want, then the difference between shopping at Kroger over Wal-Mart for groceries.

No its not. There is still a big difference between the MVC and Horizon.

I disagree other than that the Valley is better. But losing Wichita and Creighton means it's not what it was.

And again the main reason the Valley is better is because they took Valpo. Any other factors like TV and attendance only help so much. If you asked a fan that only tunes in March which conference UIC or Loyola is given the choice of only these two leagues, they'd be throwing darts.

No the Valley is better overall than Horizon even if we had took a different team than Valpo.

Virtually all the Valley teams have made a deep run in the tourney. Bradley, Drake, Indiana St. and Loyola (and Loyola does have a championship banner) all have a final 4. For the Horizon few have made deep runs. Creighton and Wichita St. have not historically been far above the Valley average, only in recent years.
07-20-2017 03:33 PM
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Post: #133
RE: MVC official announcement: Valpo gets the only invitation
All MVC teams either made the Sweet 16 (NIowa, SIllinois, Bradley, MoSt, Valpo), finished top 25 (Drake), or got an at-large bid (Evansville) in the last 20 years.

The 3 exceptions are either a current relevant midmajor (IlSt) or was part of something historically significant (Loyola-national title, InSt-undefeated til '79 title game, most viewed college game ever, Bird).

Even if you think Horizon/MVC will be even moving forward, it's still better odds to put your $ on the league with programs who have history (+attendance). Worst case scenario, Valpo makes a lateral move but acquires 2 in-state rivals and a 50/50 public/private split that's a wash geographically.
07-20-2017 04:31 PM
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Post: #134
RE: MVC official announcement: Valpo gets the only invitation
(07-20-2017 02:59 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  No the Valley is better overall than Horizon even if we had took a different team than Valpo.

I never said it wasn't overall. But the difference isn't outstanding. Someone sighted attendance. Unless the Valley's average attendance is 7-8K or they have 2-3 teams drawing 10k+, then it doesn't make a major difference. As I said, it's better but as much of a difference as shopping at Marshall's versus Ross. Or if you want, shopping at the Gap versus either of them. It's not like I'd snub one for any of those others.
07-21-2017 01:53 AM
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Post: #135
RE: MVC official announcement: Valpo gets the only invitation
(07-20-2017 03:33 PM)bullet Wrote:  Virtually all the Valley teams have made a deep run in the tourney. Bradley, Drake, Indiana St. and Loyola (and Loyola does have a championship banner) all have a final 4. For the Horizon few have made deep runs. Creighton and Wichita St. have not historically been far above the Valley average, only in recent years.

You're bringing up stuff from so long ago, none of the current players were close to born. None of the current Valley has a recent pedigree of sustained success. Wichita had been to the Sweet 16 in four different decades. Creighton doesn't have the NCAA Tournament resume but has a huge fanbase.

Are you gonna throw Bradley's Final Four runs into this? Like when they just fell short of a national title at 19-13 (15-12 before the Dance)? Or way back in 1950? They snuck in the Dance one year and had a solid run but nothing else recently. Indiana State was the definition of a one-hit wonder. Loyola may have had 5 really good teams ever and none in a very long time.
07-21-2017 02:44 AM
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Post: #136
RE: MVC official announcement: Valpo gets the only invitation
MVC is dead. They were dead for adding schools that did not have history for basketball tournaments and all that. MVC have gone down the ladder with their major players are now gone. Missouri State would be the next one to go. There are already schools with football in the conference having wandering eyes for several years now to leave that play football. Those schools were in talks to join for a football merger with the WAC for FBS until they get full invites to another conference. This would have include the Summit and Youngstown State schools that have football. MVFC does have the clout to be consider an FBS conference. They are at that level as the MAC on how they play. I would be glad to see the football schools divorced from the basketball schools from this conference. This conference is a sinking ship like the Big East was. CAA is also a sinking ship as well with the football schools fighting with the basketball schools over which schools they want into the conference. The football schools wanted Stony Brook and Albany to join as full members, but the basketball schools blocked those two schools. That is why there are rumors of all the football schools are looking to join another conference that could satisfy their needs.
07-21-2017 09:19 AM
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Post: #137
RE: MVC official announcement: Valpo gets the only invitation
(07-21-2017 02:44 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  You're bringing up stuff from so long ago, none of the current players were close to born. None of the current Valley has a recent pedigree of sustained success. Wichita had been to the Sweet 16 in four different decades. Creighton doesn't have the NCAA Tournament resume but has a huge fanbase.

Are you gonna throw Bradley's Final Four runs into this? Like when they just fell short of a national title at 19-13 (15-12 before the Dance)? Or way back in 1950? They snuck in the Dance one year and had a solid run but nothing else recently. Indiana State was the definition of a one-hit wonder. Loyola may have had 5 really good teams ever and none in a very long time.

It all depends on what we ultimately are looking at.

It could be argued that the two more important, objective outside measures of a basketball conference are: 1) how much the NCAAT selection committee respects them, and 2) how much TV broadcasters value them.


In those two critical measures, I think it could be argued that going forward the MVC has lost much of whatever edge it had over the Horizon. Even last year, a worthy ILL St team was ignored by the committee. And it will remain to be seen how much more TV value the new MVC has over the Horizon.
07-21-2017 09:37 AM
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