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Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #281
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
(06-09-2017 02:19 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(06-09-2017 11:22 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-08-2017 08:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Where was I wrong on that? The Big West and WCC aren't going to restructure for him. Too many posters like above are just so dang arrogant as they know more than poor Jerry. Other low major conferences are not going to let the WAC fold, as they would have full houses with less $'s. The WAC and Big Sky would realign just based on necessity of maximizing their NCAA income and lesser travel.

You mean like a Big Sky and WAC and Summit realignment that I described that you and others shredded me for suggesting it? But Colangelo says there is maybe momentum toward?

Several posters said that was way outside the realm of possibility, but Jerry C confirms that there has been at least in his mind. It was also on mine. Jerry Coangelo didn't make millions by dreaming up absurd dreams and then making them reality.

Here's a shaker and maker that wants things done differently with a new alignment, and posters here are actually so vain as to p*ss on him. No matter what you say, will take Colangelo's opinions vs your facfs.

The Big Sky was the #28 ranked conference in the country and the Big West #29 last season. I think neither is attractive to GCU. For GCU, I think they either end up in the WCC eventually or they stick with the WAC and help attract some additional western schools.

The WCC is good at ten schools at this time and they have Gonzaga, St. Mary's and BYU. If they were to expand, Seattle and GCU to get them to 12 makes the most sense. Gets the WCC to 12, both are private schools, both are big TV markets in the west that the WCC is not in. GCU at $4.3 million per season and Seattle at $3.4 million have the two largest basketball budgets in the WAC.

The WAC could add a Denver or Sacramento State and be just fine. Denver belongs in the west and the WAC does not care that they don't bring baseball. The WAC headquarters are in Denver. The Big Sky is down to 11 with the departure of North Dakota. Letting Sacramento State join the WAC for Olympic sports would allow the Big Sky to operate with an even 10 basketball schools. Sac State is already in the WAC for baseball and could move their men's soccer program from the Big West to the WAC.

Colangelo did not say anything that was a surprise or give any indication that GCU had any plans to leave the WAC. Conference re-alignment has been going on for years and will continue in the future. Anyone could predict that and that is all Colangelo was talking about.

DU will never go back to the WAC as the WAC is today. GCU is a HUGE issue for them.

Denver would like to be in the WCC. So if the WCC were to invite GCU and Denver, would Denver say no because GCU would also be joining the league? I think this was an issue for a number of schools back in 2013. I think that has changed...
06-09-2017 03:39 PM
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MplsBison Online
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Post: #282
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
Denver isn't a religious affiliated school. Doubt it would have any interest in WCC, or vice versa.
06-09-2017 03:49 PM
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spenser Offline
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Post: #283
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
(06-09-2017 03:49 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Denver isn't a religious affiliated school. Doubt it would have any interest in WCC, or vice versa.

Well they are a private school, and though they are independent now they were established a Methodist Seminary.

I don't know the culture there, so maybe they would fit, maybe not.
06-10-2017 04:08 PM
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Stugray2 Online
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Post: #284
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
MplsBison,

Denver likes the WCC, but they are an outlier. Its basically a Pacific Coast league with BYU such a big value they sacrificed that. Pacific (like Butler, started religious but no longer affiliated) and arguably Pepperdine (also pretty secular) are not Catholic either. Denver competes for and attracts many of the same Catholic HS kids (in CA these schools are only about 60% Catholic, as pretty much anyone who wants a stronger option than their pubic school sends their kids there) as students. Both DU and Seattle are on the same board of high choice privates as the WCC schools. Just look at any Catholic HS hall board of where kids applied and where they are attending (after the UCs and Ivy type schools, these next the next tier of students, the CSU schools get the bottom 1/2).

I don't think you understand Denver at all. If you look at their recruiting pattern, after the home base (Colorado and the Albuquerque area of New Mexico) which make up about half the student body, three other areas stand out for recruiting of both athletes and students: The major cities of the Great Lakes (almost 20%), California (about 10% if you add Seattle and Portland), and foreigners (10% as well). Half of what is left are from the Mid-Atlantic (Big East Lacrosse works for that). The really do not recruit anyone from the Summit. The Horizon would be a better fit from that standpoint.

Their Sports mix is weird, and reflects the uniqueness of the school. Lacrosse, Hockey, and Skiing are almost as big as Basketball, and none of them depend on the "core" conference affiliation. Academically they see the Big East and WCC schools as their primary peers. But they are outside the geographic sphere of either.
06-10-2017 04:34 PM
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dbackjon Online
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Post: #285
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
(06-10-2017 04:08 PM)spenser Wrote:  
(06-09-2017 03:49 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Denver isn't a religious affiliated school. Doubt it would have any interest in WCC, or vice versa.

Well they are a private school, and though they are independent now they were established a Methodist Seminary.

I don't know the culture there, so maybe they would fit, maybe not.

That founding is the same as Pacific
06-10-2017 04:59 PM
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MplsBison Online
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Post: #286
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
(06-09-2017 01:30 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  Denver fits fine with the Dakotas, Omaha and Oral Roberts. Just as well as they would in a western conference.

Agreed. The thing is, I think they like the idea of being with North Dakota and Omaha in all their other sports, as men's hockey is their main sports and those two are conference rivals in the NCHC.


(06-10-2017 04:34 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  MplsBison,

Denver likes the WCC, but they are an outlier. Its basically a Pacific Coast league with BYU such a big value they sacrificed that. Pacific (like Butler, started religious but no longer affiliated) and arguably Pepperdine (also pretty secular) are not Catholic either. Denver competes for and attracts many of the same Catholic HS kids (in CA these schools are only about 60% Catholic, as pretty much anyone who wants a stronger option than their pubic school sends their kids there) as students. Both DU and Seattle are on the same board of high choice privates as the WCC schools. Just look at any Catholic HS hall board of where kids applied and where they are attending (after the UCs and Ivy type schools, these next the next tier of students, the CSU schools get the bottom 1/2).

I don't think you understand Denver at all. If you look at their recruiting pattern, after the home base (Colorado and the Albuquerque area of New Mexico) which make up about half the student body, three other areas stand out for recruiting of both athletes and students: The major cities of the Great Lakes (almost 20%), California (about 10% if you add Seattle and Portland), and foreigners (10% as well). Half of what is left are from the Mid-Atlantic (Big East Lacrosse works for that). The really do not recruit anyone from the Summit. The Horizon would be a better fit from that standpoint.

Their Sports mix is weird, and reflects the uniqueness of the school. Lacrosse, Hockey, and Skiing are almost as big as Basketball, and none of them depend on the "core" conference affiliation. Academically they see the Big East and WCC schools as their primary peers. But they are outside the geographic sphere of either.

Good analysis and fair, thanks for the post.

Based on hockey being their primary sport, and Omaha and North Dakota being conference rivals, I think the Summit is the best they can do outside the Big East and WCC. All other options west of the Mississippi either require football or are one-bid leagues anyway.


(06-10-2017 04:59 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  That founding is the same as Pacific

Man, I'm striking out left and right on the WCC.

When I looked up Pacific, to reply to NoDak's earlier post, I went to the wrong Pacific! There's a religious affiliated Pacific U in Oregon, as opposed to the larger U of the Pacific in California that is not religious affiliated. Sheesh!
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2017 11:51 AM by MplsBison.)
06-11-2017 11:50 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #287
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
Seattle would be logical for the WCC if not for Gonzaga blocking them.

Denver is a logical replacement for BYU in the WCC, should they get the call up to the B12 for all sports, which is possible in the next decade.
06-11-2017 12:09 PM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #288
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
(06-09-2017 03:39 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-09-2017 02:19 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(06-09-2017 11:22 AM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(06-08-2017 08:50 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Where was I wrong on that? The Big West and WCC aren't going to restructure for him. Too many posters like above are just so dang arrogant as they know more than poor Jerry. Other low major conferences are not going to let the WAC fold, as they would have full houses with less $'s. The WAC and Big Sky would realign just based on necessity of maximizing their NCAA income and lesser travel.

You mean like a Big Sky and WAC and Summit realignment that I described that you and others shredded me for suggesting it? But Colangelo says there is maybe momentum toward?

Several posters said that was way outside the realm of possibility, but Jerry C confirms that there has been at least in his mind. It was also on mine. Jerry Coangelo didn't make millions by dreaming up absurd dreams and then making them reality.

Here's a shaker and maker that wants things done differently with a new alignment, and posters here are actually so vain as to p*ss on him. No matter what you say, will take Colangelo's opinions vs your facfs.

The Big Sky was the #28 ranked conference in the country and the Big West #29 last season. I think neither is attractive to GCU. For GCU, I think they either end up in the WCC eventually or they stick with the WAC and help attract some additional western schools.

The WCC is good at ten schools at this time and they have Gonzaga, St. Mary's and BYU. If they were to expand, Seattle and GCU to get them to 12 makes the most sense. Gets the WCC to 12, both are private schools, both are big TV markets in the west that the WCC is not in. GCU at $4.3 million per season and Seattle at $3.4 million have the two largest basketball budgets in the WAC.

The WAC could add a Denver or Sacramento State and be just fine. Denver belongs in the west and the WAC does not care that they don't bring baseball. The WAC headquarters are in Denver. The Big Sky is down to 11 with the departure of North Dakota. Letting Sacramento State join the WAC for Olympic sports would allow the Big Sky to operate with an even 10 basketball schools. Sac State is already in the WAC for baseball and could move their men's soccer program from the Big West to the WAC.

Colangelo did not say anything that was a surprise or give any indication that GCU had any plans to leave the WAC. Conference re-alignment has been going on for years and will continue in the future. Anyone could predict that and that is all Colangelo was talking about.

DU will never go back to the WAC as the WAC is today. GCU is a HUGE issue for them.

Denver would like to be in the WCC. So if the WCC were to invite GCU and Denver, would Denver say no because GCU would also be joining the league? I think this was an issue for a number of schools back in 2013. I think that has changed...

Won't ever be an issue because the WCC won't invite GCU for the same reason DU left the WAC. Just because they hired a former NBA player, have gotten some media attention, some sports fans think they are grand and they spend a lot of money doesn't change the fact that a lot of schools want nothing to do with them. DU or Seattle would get invites into the WCC long before GCU would.
06-12-2017 10:45 AM
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