Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
Author Message
Stugray2 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 888
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 41
I Root For: tOSU SJSU
Location:
Post: #21
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
A point I left off on 11 teams for the Horizon. The assumption is 10th and 11th schools will have a higher RPI , say one at 90 and the other at 120 range. By going to 20 league games, with better RPI schools in the league, the ranking of the league would improve, giving a better chance of an at-large bid (the entire point of expansion).

But if the schools are 200 or lower, as are the schools suggested here (in fact closer to 300 than 200 since 2010), then they would have a very detrimental impact on the league ranking and performance. So far more important to the Horizon is high RPI than then location. But the location can't be ridiculous either.

I don't see one, let alone two 120 or higher RPI schools willing to join the Horizon. When you guys find that school I'll take this discussion seriously. Right now, all I see are talks based on "as a Dakota fan, I'd prefer the Indiana schools not be in my conference, so wouldn't it be great if we could somehow convince the Horizon to take them off our hands" sort of arguments. The little Purdue schools are in the Summit because nobody wants them. (This is why you don't add schools you really don't want, as you are stuck with them when you no longer need them; hence the Summit Dakota fans trying to eject them.)
05-09-2017 01:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BruceMcF Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,882
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 92
I Root For: Reds/Buckeyes/.
Location:
Post: #22
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
(05-08-2017 08:52 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  And to that end, I guess at the moment you could say that FW's MBB program is better. Plays in a nicer arena, and I think has higher attendance and RPI (not sure though). ...
Don't know long term, but last season they were ... RPI 0.4983 for Fort Wayne vs 0.4729 for IUPUI (175th vs 215th), and ESPN's power index had Fort Wayne at the top of the Summit with a BPI rank of 121st, vs 199th for IUPUI.

And while baseball may not be the most important issue, it is probably an issue ... non-FB conferences need to sponsor three men's team sports, and by their nature tend have a lot of schools near the minimum required number of men's sports, so a little leeway above the bare minimum requirement is a bit of an insurance policy for maintaining their Div I status in the face of possible non-FB conference turmoil if the Big East ever gets the word from Fox that they'll pay for the Big East to expand by two.
05-09-2017 01:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Stugray2 Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 888
Joined: Jan 2017
Reputation: 41
I Root For: tOSU SJSU
Location:
Post: #23
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
There is a two year grace period and then a three year waiver. So a conference short on one sport can drag out expansion for five years to get back in compliance. This assumes the NCAA comes down on your conference and says "you need to get a waiver if you take it more than two years."

To be honest I think the NCAA is likely to loosen the rules due to so many schools cutting sports. They may say 5 women's sports and 2 men's in place of 3 Men's. Or maybe they will count Tennis as a Men's team sport. The last thing the NCAA wants to do, and frankly is not willing to do, is break up an otherwise solid conference over a rule like this.
05-09-2017 02:02 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DavidSt Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,608
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 50
I Root For: ATU, P7
Location:
Post: #24
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
Would Horizen push to 12? Bellarmine in Louisville, Kentucky does have some good D2 basketball teams. Louisville would add another big market if they add them as well.

There are several schools in large tv markets in that area as well.
05-09-2017 02:15 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dxdtdemon Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 162
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 3
I Root For: OSU, Wright St.
Location:
Post: #25
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
I think they'll stay at nine for now, like they had some of the past few years (the gaps between Butler leaving and Oakland joining, and Loyoia leaving and NKU joining). There isn't anyone who would join that would improve the conference RPI, and the current addition candidates will still likely be around whenever Wright State goes bankrupt.
05-09-2017 05:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Mister Consistency Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 499
Joined: Dec 2010
Reputation: 7
I Root For: ETSU
Location:
Post: #26
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
(05-09-2017 05:57 AM)dxdtdemon Wrote:  I think they'll stay at nine for now, like they had some of the past few years (the gaps between Butler leaving and Oakland joining, and Loyoia leaving and NKU joining). There isn't anyone who would join that would improve the conference RPI, and the current addition candidates will still likely be around whenever Wright State goes bankrupt.

No, they won't stay at nine, and LeCrone is on the record about it:

Quote:Horizon Commissioner Jonathan LeCrone said Friday that the MVC’s visits, including to schools within his league (Valparaiso and Milwaukee), are no secret. He has spoken openly about his intention to expand and said the Horizon will stay true to its value and plan, which transcends any movement of members.

“Whether we’re 10, whether we’re eight, whether we’re nine, we still have plans, no matter what our configuration is at any point in time, to grow larger,” he said. “We think larger is better. We think divisional play is good. And we have lots of members on our membership candidate list who are very interested in helping us achieve that vision no matter what our current membership movement might be.”

They will go to 12 (14 is tougher, but still doable) and those plans could be accelerated by a departure.
05-09-2017 08:20 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
The Cutter of Bish Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,571
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 56
I Root For: the little guy
Location:
Post: #27
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
When you see how the IUPU's have to have their work done for them at the main campus, you can begin to see why the private members and some of the public ones wanted no part of these guys.

The issue of doing business with these schools were that you weren't necessarily the same kind of school as the large state/landgrant institutions in the same footprint. But, those schools want their branch campuses, "runoff" dare I say, with these other schools.

You know the ceiling with these guys. If you think you're EVER going to get programs better than those run at the main campus, you're dreaming. It's always a derivative or a minor league to the main campus. Whereas with these other schools, they can't necessarily compete head-to-head (well, Butler proved that one wrong), but you could be different and still independent of "respect of the rank."
(This post was last modified: 05-09-2017 09:38 AM by The Cutter of Bish.)
05-09-2017 09:33 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jacksfan29 Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 344
Joined: May 2016
Reputation: 8
I Root For: So Dak St/CU
Location: Western Colorado
Post: #28
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
(05-09-2017 01:43 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 08:52 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  And to that end, I guess at the moment you could say that FW's MBB program is better. Plays in a nicer arena, and I think has higher attendance and RPI (not sure though). ...
Don't know long term, but last season they were ... RPI 0.4983 for Fort Wayne vs 0.4729 for IUPUI (175th vs 215th), and ESPN's power index had Fort Wayne at the top of the Summit with a BPI rank of 121st, vs 199th for IUPUI.

And while baseball may not be the most important issue, it is probably an issue ... non-FB conferences need to sponsor three men's team sports, and by their nature tend have a lot of schools near the minimum required number of men's sports, so a little leeway above the bare minimum requirement is a bit of an insurance policy for maintaining their Div I status in the face of possible non-FB conference turmoil if the Big East ever gets the word from Fox that they'll pay for the Big East to expand by two.

IPFW has had a better basketball program for many years, following Hunter's departure IUPUI have struggled. They are always very athletic, just not disciplined. Baseball is a big issue for both the HL and Summit which makes IPFW much more attractive.
05-09-2017 10:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
solohawks Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 6,495
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 121
I Root For: UNCW
Location: Wilmington, NC
Post: #29
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
With Valpo now being the only candidate leaving officially I would guess the Horizon at minimum would expand by 1.

I am going to guess that Omaha will get that spot based on articles I have seen. The Horizon could go to 12 and completely gut the Summit take both IUPU's as well. UMKC may be in the mix if Horizon wants to go to 12. Horizon seems to be pushing themselves as big Midwestern markets so they have options.
05-09-2017 10:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
NDSUguy Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 59
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 8
I Root For: NDSU
Location:
Post: #30
RE: Fort Wayne or IUPUI to Horizon?
(05-09-2017 10:43 AM)solohawks Wrote:  With Valpo now being the only candidate leaving officially I would guess the Horizon at minimum would expand by 1.

I am going to guess that Omaha will get that spot based on articles I have seen. The Horizon could go to 12 and completely gut the Summit take both IUPU's as well. UMKC may be in the mix if Horizon wants to go to 12. Horizon seems to be pushing themselves as big Midwestern markets so they have options.

Without Valpo the Horizon is NOT a better conference than the current Summit. The eastern schools in the Summit might be swayed but there is NO chance that any western schools (i.e. Omaha/Denver or UMKC) would want to increase their expenses just so that they can say that they are in a "city" league. No benefit in that.
05-09-2017 10:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2017 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2017 MyBB Group.