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BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #21
RE: BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
the promlem expanding west
Hous, SMU, Tulane & Tulsa want eastern presence
Hous has been turning down the WAC & MWC since the 90's
06-07-2014 01:30 PM
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billings Offline
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Post: #22
RE: BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
(06-06-2014 02:35 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  
(06-06-2014 12:58 PM)MinerInWisconsin Wrote:  It's curious to me that PAC 12 schools have no problem scheduling BYU in multiple sports but can't bring themselves to invite BYU into the conference. With BYU's fanbase and financial resources, they would be an excellent addition. Religion and policy stances are supposedly the reasons they are not invited but that doesn't stop PAC 12 schools from rubbing shoulders with them on the football field, etc.
I think that Stanford, and particularly Cal/Berkeley would be the primary forces that would object to BYU's PAC membership. They can't control who UCLA schedules on an ad-hoc basis, but they have enough sway to prevent BYU from being offered conference membership.

BYU will never be in the PAC as long as Stanford is there. Too many issues of academic freedom and political stances at BYU for them to ever gain access to the PAC.
06-07-2014 01:48 PM
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FreshPrinceOfDarkness Offline
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Post: #23
RE: BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
(06-06-2014 12:24 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  
(06-06-2014 11:45 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Even though it requires ignoring one of the biggest population centers in the Mountain time zone in Colorado, I guess its a sacrifice that's necessary to pretend that the Utes aren't in the Pac-12.

This does illustrate the challenge that BYU has, in that the Big12 schools are not all that eager to play BYU OOC, that could be an indication of how interested the Big12 as a whole is in playing BYU every year or every two years in four in conference.

The Phoenix market it the real prize media market in the Mountain West for college sports. Denver is more of a pro sports market. BYU already has pretty good penetration into the Phoenix market. It is the CA markets that have the big numbers, with SeaTac being pretty big as well.

Since BYU hasn't played a regular-season football game with Colorado since the early 80s, and we don't have any more scheduled, which indicates to me they are not a traditional opponent for us. We have played every Pac-10 team home and away since then, as well as often in bowl games, and have a couple a year scheduled for the near future.

Ultimately, Utah is an in-state opponent. The game is huge on a local scale, not much of a blip on the national scale.

However, this is missing the main issue. What is the backup plan for the teams beside Texas and OK in the Big 12? Handing over more revenue to Texas and OK? Seems to me that they would be wise to have a backup plan. "Risk adjusted return" is the financial phrase - when does the risk of being left out not compensated for the revenue from staying small? It seems to me that BYU & BSU for football only as well as 2 Eastern teams for all sports would allow for the conference to survive if a "Black Swan" event happens. However, the question remains whether the Big 12 leftovers would be attractive enough after a Black Swan event. BYU would have jumped to the Big East in the 90s or 2000s, but turned them down when they finally called after their Black Swan event. Have to build up the conference while the conference is up to compensate for the down times.

There will be no Black Swan event. In addition to UT and OU, the admins of Tech, Kansas, and Okie State know where those schools will land should the Big 12 dissolve. The same may be true for WVU. So that's 5-6 members out of 10 that won't support expanding out of fear of being "left behind". And the desire of the "Texoma 4" to stay or move together is much stronger than most people realize thanks to proximity, ease of travel, shared culture, academic\political ties, rivalries, etc.
06-07-2014 05:52 PM
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jml2010 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
(06-07-2014 05:52 PM)FreshPrinceOfDarkness Wrote:  There will be no Black Swan event. In addition to UT and OU, the admins of Tech, Kansas, and Okie State know where those schools will land should the Big 12 dissolve. The same may be true for WVU. So that's 5-6 members out of 10 that won't support expanding out of fear of being "left behind". And the desire of the "Texoma 4" to stay or move together is much stronger than most people realize thanks to proximity, ease of travel, shared culture, academic\political ties, rivalries, etc.

I disagree about Kansas but overall I agree.
06-07-2014 06:56 PM
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Tbringer Offline
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Post: #25
RE: BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
(06-06-2014 01:22 PM)bluesox Wrote:  I could see the pac 12 expand someday without taking any prime beef big 12 teams. Yet, i would be surprised if byu was such an expansion pick, i'm talking UNLV + New Mexico to get to 14 for the pac 12. The only way i could see BYU in the pac 12 would be if the pac 12 expanded to 20 and created 2 ten team divisions. Thus, you would have 10 team division of original pac 10 members while the other division could be

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, BYU, OU, Ok State, Colorado, Utah, KU, KSU

basically, the only tie would be the football champ game with each division having their own hoop tourney. For it to work WVU goes to the acc so the GOR is void with tcu and iowa state out of luck.

There is no chance of course Texas, T Tech, Baylor, OU, OK State, KU or KSU are going to the Pac 12. The lowest paid team in the Big 12 is still ahead of three Pac 12 schools, and the media rights revenues are better in the Big 12 across the board.

If there were any movement between the two conferences then it would likely be some of the southern Pac 12 schools to the Big 12 once the Pac 12's GOR runs out in 2024.
06-07-2014 07:33 PM
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Tbringer Offline
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Post: #26
RE: BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
(06-07-2014 05:52 PM)FreshPrinceOfDarkness Wrote:  
(06-06-2014 12:24 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  
(06-06-2014 11:45 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Even though it requires ignoring one of the biggest population centers in the Mountain time zone in Colorado, I guess its a sacrifice that's necessary to pretend that the Utes aren't in the Pac-12.

This does illustrate the challenge that BYU has, in that the Big12 schools are not all that eager to play BYU OOC, that could be an indication of how interested the Big12 as a whole is in playing BYU every year or every two years in four in conference.

The Phoenix market it the real prize media market in the Mountain West for college sports. Denver is more of a pro sports market. BYU already has pretty good penetration into the Phoenix market. It is the CA markets that have the big numbers, with SeaTac being pretty big as well.

Since BYU hasn't played a regular-season football game with Colorado since the early 80s, and we don't have any more scheduled, which indicates to me they are not a traditional opponent for us. We have played every Pac-10 team home and away since then, as well as often in bowl games, and have a couple a year scheduled for the near future.

Ultimately, Utah is an in-state opponent. The game is huge on a local scale, not much of a blip on the national scale.

However, this is missing the main issue. What is the backup plan for the teams beside Texas and OK in the Big 12? Handing over more revenue to Texas and OK? Seems to me that they would be wise to have a backup plan. "Risk adjusted return" is the financial phrase - when does the risk of being left out not compensated for the revenue from staying small? It seems to me that BYU & BSU for football only as well as 2 Eastern teams for all sports would allow for the conference to survive if a "Black Swan" event happens. However, the question remains whether the Big 12 leftovers would be attractive enough after a Black Swan event. BYU would have jumped to the Big East in the 90s or 2000s, but turned them down when they finally called after their Black Swan event. Have to build up the conference while the conference is up to compensate for the down times.

There will be no Black Swan event. In addition to UT and OU, the admins of Tech, Kansas, and Okie State know where those schools will land should the Big 12 dissolve. The same may be true for WVU. So that's 5-6 members out of 10 that won't support expanding out of fear of being "left behind". And the desire of the "Texoma 4" to stay or move together is much stronger than most people realize thanks to proximity, ease of travel, shared culture, academic\political ties, rivalries, etc.

I've seen lots of fantasies on these boards by anti Big 12 posters, but what do you mean when you say "should the Big 12 dissolve". Conferences don't just "dissolve" and no schools in the Big 12 are leaving so??
06-07-2014 07:35 PM
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billings Offline
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Post: #27
RE: BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
(06-07-2014 07:33 PM)Tbringer Wrote:  
(06-06-2014 01:22 PM)bluesox Wrote:  I could see the pac 12 expand someday without taking any prime beef big 12 teams. Yet, i would be surprised if byu was such an expansion pick, i'm talking UNLV + New Mexico to get to 14 for the pac 12. The only way i could see BYU in the pac 12 would be if the pac 12 expanded to 20 and created 2 ten team divisions. Thus, you would have 10 team division of original pac 10 members while the other division could be

Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, BYU, OU, Ok State, Colorado, Utah, KU, KSU

basically, the only tie would be the football champ game with each division having their own hoop tourney. For it to work WVU goes to the acc so the GOR is void with tcu and iowa state out of luck.

There is no chance of course Texas, T Tech, Baylor, OU, OK State, KU or KSU are going to the Pac 12. The lowest paid team in the Big 12 is still ahead of three Pac 12 schools, and the media rights revenues are better in the Big 12 across the board.

If there were any movement between the two conferences then it would likely be some of the southern Pac 12 schools to the Big 12 once the Pac 12's GOR runs out in 2024.

Really doubt the Arizona schools would ever leave the PAC and not play in their primary recruiting grounds. NAh
06-08-2014 09:53 AM
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ColKurtz Offline
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Post: #28
RE: BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
Quote:I've seen lots of fantasies on these boards by anti Big 12 posters, but what do you mean when you say "should the Big 12 dissolve". Conferences don't just "dissolve" and no schools in the Big 12 are leaving so??

Nobody is leaving now. The GOR prevents that. But it's pretty obvious Oklahoma has its skirt hiked up as high as it will go. The fact that the B12 hasn't extended the GOR should make it obvious that the conference is unstable.

The B1G's contract is up in 2024 (before the B12), which means quiet negotiations will begin no later than 2022. There are 2, maybe 3 true gems left in realignment -- UT, OU, and maybe KU. If it looks like the B1G is flirting with OU -- maybe alongside KU -- , maybe the SEC starts courting OU too... UT will never join the SEC. I just can't see OU staying after the current B12 contract is up.

Plenty of reasons OU could be stuck with the B12. AAU issues with the B1G. No obvious partner with OU to SEC. 16-team leagues stretching the definition of a "conference". But to say "no schools in the Big 12 are leaving" is pretty naive and a short term statement at best.
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2017 10:29 PM by ColKurtz.)
06-11-2017 10:28 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #29
RE: BYU's Pac 10 scheduling may be impacting Big 12
Why is a three year old thread being revived??
06-11-2017 10:36 PM
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