(05-03-2017 01:52 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby could have built a solid team with the players he is bringing in and then compliment them with a top 10 kid like Chandler and/or DJ to become the focal point. He can still do that, but it just doesn't seem like he wants to work it like hes going to need to do in order to get one of those kids. Cal's genius was not his ability to get around a rule: his genius was his abiity to team build. His genius was taking a team that went twice to the Elite 8 and convince them to turn over the reigns to a freshmen. If Tubby is going to win here like the fans expect him to win, then its going to take something more than what he is currently bringing in.

That's what is bothering me too. The projections (based on stats) for how JuCo players pan out in D1 are not good---seem to be weighing in at about 50% of what they did in junior college.

(05-03-2017 01:47 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:44 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:39 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:35 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:26 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby is 67. He doesn't have a 7-8 year rebuild in him. The game plan on how to win big here has already been drafted. It's just a question of whether Tubby is too bullheaded to follow it.

Enlighten me. Cheat like Cal?

What did he do?

Are you saying we didn't cheat while he was here?

What do you know ?

Perception is reality.

(05-03-2017 11:28 AM)wctiger65 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 11:12 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 11:10 AM)Unbreakable04 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 10:15 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  If the landscape has changed so drastically, then why not hold your nose and move Keelon to a recruiting assistant? The guy could assure 3-4 McDonald's AA's wear blue and gray.

The same regurgitated fake news/false narrative you hear time and time again. Keep him on staff to bring in his sons, who the latter may only stay one year as highly touted as they seem to be and the former are good college basketball players who obviously have their own flaws along with a Dad that offers nothing in terms of promoting the Memphis product, coaching, etc. and proved that over the course of two years. Why put up with all the bull**** having him on staff for 7-8 years for two 1 & done's and possible a 1 & done nephew? Oh, and then want to "do the best thing for his kids" by having them transfer yet say if he was an assistant coach they would still be here? Contradictory much? Who else was he bringing in other than his family? It's a waste of time and sad that he would have to be on staff for his family to wear Memphis jerseys. I'd rather completely rebuild for 2-3 years than have to deal with that bs on staff and rebuild with integrity, which is a quality many here lack.

Cue the "win at any cost" folks chiming in

Aka "the pricks"?

it is clear the folks that do not like the way Tubby is doing things have no cover here. Wow.

I knew I should have seen myself out when that one announcement was made.

(05-03-2017 02:04 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:47 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:44 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:39 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:35 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Enlighten me. Cheat like Cal?

What did he do?

Are you saying we didn't cheat while he was here?

What do you know ?

Perception is reality.

No it is not. It is perception. And who cares what the "perception" of Memphis basketball is? Do you know what the "perception" is of the current NCAA champs in basketball?

(05-03-2017 09:51 AM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  The author was just on Calkins show and presented the pro side for Tubby in really what was a nice debate with Calkins. Posting from my phone so I really don't want to outline that but the subject of the debate, this article, is found here -- bballjones.com

Basketball Jones does a Calkins on Calkins. Good stuff.

(05-03-2017 01:57 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:46 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:40 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:35 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:26 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby is 67. He doesn't have a 7-8 year rebuild in him. The game plan on how to win big here has already been drafted. It's just a question of whether Tubby is too bullheaded to follow it.

Enlighten me. Cheat like Cal?

Recruit D1 point guards, power forwards and centers. Recruit players in the top 100. Try not to have your 2 guard and your first freshman recruit leave after one year. Try and recruit players your first year that will help long term. There were 23 players in the top 100 from TN, AR, MS, LA, GA, TX, all areas that we should be recruiting, and Tubby didn't get any of them.

Who was the last recruit in the top 100 we got from Texas heck I don't remember any from LA for that matter.
I'll hang up and listen.

Dominic Magee was Top 100 from LA, but he never played a game for the Tigers. Now at Southern Miss.

Nope. He went.

Memphis -> Southern Miss -> Grand Canyon -> ?????

He only lasted a year at GC. No idea what hes up to now.

(05-03-2017 02:26 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:57 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:46 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:40 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:35 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Enlighten me. Cheat like Cal?

Recruit D1 point guards, power forwards and centers. Recruit players in the top 100. Try not to have your 2 guard and your first freshman recruit leave after one year. Try and recruit players your first year that will help long term. There were 23 players in the top 100 from TN, AR, MS, LA, GA, TX, all areas that we should be recruiting, and Tubby didn't get any of them.

Who was the last recruit in the top 100 we got from Texas heck I don't remember any from LA for that matter.
I'll hang up and listen.

Dominic Magee was Top 100 from LA, but he never played a game for the Tigers. Now at Southern Miss.

Nope. He went.

Memphis -> Southern Miss -> Grand Canyon -> ?????

He only lasted a year at GC. No idea what hes up to now.

Nope. You were right.

Memphis -> Grand Canyon -> Southern Miss

(05-03-2017 01:52 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby could have built a solid team with the players he is bringing in and then compliment them with a top 10 kid like Chandler and/or DJ to become the focal point. He can still do that, but it just doesn't seem like he wants to work it like hes going to need to do in order to get one of those kids. Cal's genius was not his ability to get around a rule: his genius was his abiity to team build. His genius was taking a team that went twice to the Elite 8 and convince them to turn over the reigns to a freshmen. If Tubby is going to win here like the fans expect him to win, then its going to take something more than what he is currently bringing in.

That was year 8 into the Cal era, which that success will never be duplicated, and I agree with you about handing the reigns over. However, this is the start of YEAR 2 of the Tubby era, Cal took over a mess and took some time to right the ship, time will tell if Tubby can right the ship from the mess he inherited. All these irrational posts & speculatory statements about "what if" we kept Keelon, "what if" we "could've" had the whole family here are all over with. Time to move on. Tubby didn't want to whore out the program a la Josh in order to save face. Let's move on and see what happens over the next few years. Keelon wasn't doing ANYTHING for the program. He wasn't bringing ANYONE in other than his sons, who on the same team with another "top 100" recruit couldn't even get us to the NIT in a down conference. They couldn't get us to the NIT the year before with five "top 100" recruits on the team at the same time PLUS Tarrant, Woodson & Burrell or even have a winning record in conference! The same shtick everyone uses here is tiresome.

If people, in general, are this miserable on a message board then I'd hate to see them deal with real life scenarios. (Not including you, just a general statement about this board)

Tubby will never bring what Cal did, but if he somehow turns this thing around and gets to a sweet 16 in the next couple of years, then all will be well in message board la la land.

(05-03-2017 01:59 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:52 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby could have built a solid team with the players he is bringing in and then compliment them with a top 10 kid like Chandler and/or DJ to become the focal point. He can still do that, but it just doesn't seem like he wants to work it like hes going to need to do in order to get one of those kids. Cal's genius was not his ability to get around a rule: his genius was his abiity to team build. His genius was taking a team that went twice to the Elite 8 and convince them to turn over the reigns to a freshmen. If Tubby is going to win here like the fans expect him to win, then its going to take something more than what he is currently bringing in.

That's what is bothering me too. The projections (based on stats) for how JuCo players pan out in D1 are not good---seem to be weighing in at about 50% of what they did in junior college.

You riding Saluki's coattails on that one? Old ploy, there, lol.

Not sure how true that is, statistically. It's a system he uses and he cites examples where he's right. I think there were enough examples of where he was wrong to make the deviation pretty high for that process.

(05-03-2017 10:28 AM)Tigx Wrote:  Thanks TIGERCITY. I had no idea of this local web site, bballjones.com, so appreciate the link. I don't listen to radio much, did Calkins concede that his guest had a point?

The author, Jay Brenner, states this:

"Here he (Calkins) is on May 3, 2016 describing what it would mean if Memphis failed to get into the Big 12.
“If they are not (successful at obtaining Big 12 admission), Memphis athletics will continue on a slow slide toward irrelevance.”
How can you square this May 3rd, 2016 statement with blaming Tubby Smith exclusively for the fact that Memphis’ 2017 recruiting isn’t up to snuff? You can’t.
Again, I’m a big Calkins fan, but this is getting ridiculous."


From last week on Parrish, again an article by Brenner on bballjones.com:

"Why is Gary Parrish writing misleading columns about the University of Memphis men’s basketball program?" . . .

"In the first paragraph of his hit piece, Parrish paints a picture of a Memphis basketball program in very good shape when Tubby Smith inherited it in April, 2016.
Never mind the fact that nobody remotely familiar with the Memphis program in April, 2016 saw the situation that way.
In 2014-15 Memphis lost 14 games, finished 5th in the AAC, suffered a rash of transfers and missed the post-season entirely.
In 2015-16 Memphis lost 15 games, finished 7th in the AAC, suffered a rash of transfers and missed the post-season entirely.
Here’s a fact that Gary Parrish knows to be true: 29 losses and no-postseason appearances in 2-consecutive seasons at Memphis is a bad situation."

(05-03-2017 02:23 PM)FUT Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 02:04 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:47 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:44 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:39 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  What did he do?

Are you saying we didn't cheat while he was here?

What do you know ?

Perception is reality.

No it is not. It is perception. And who cares what the "perception" of Memphis basketball is? Do you know what the "perception" is of the current NCAA champs in basketball?

Memphis basketball needs to be re-branded. We need guys that are athletic and fundamentally sound. We need players that buy into the team concept. We need players that can shoot worth a flip and make a FT. That and we need guys who are willing to play defense. If people see those things when we play, it will be a much more attractive place for a kid to want to go. Obviously winning is important, but we're in rebuilding mode. Getting busted (yet again) for cheating after having to take a banner down not that long ago would be a bad look.

(05-03-2017 02:51 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 02:23 PM)FUT Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 02:04 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:47 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:44 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Are you saying we didn't cheat while he was here?

What do you know ?

Perception is reality.

No it is not. It is perception. And who cares what the "perception" of Memphis basketball is? Do you know what the "perception" is of the current NCAA champs in basketball?

Memphis basketball needs to be re-branded. We need guys that are athletic and fundamentally sound. We need players that buy into the team concept. We need players that can shoot worth a flip and make a FT. That and we need guys who are willing to play defense. If people see those things when we play, it will be a much more attractive place for a kid to want to go. Obviously winning is important, but we're in rebuilding mode. Getting busted (yet again) for cheating after having to take a banner down not that long ago would be a bad look.

Great post!

Our BRAND needs to be GRIT AND GRIND.

EVERY TEAM ( College and Professional) football, basketball, hop scotch, jacks should play down and dirty with a chip on their shoulder. THAT SHOULD BE MEMPHIS

(05-03-2017 02:51 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 02:23 PM)FUT Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 02:04 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:47 PM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:44 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Are you saying we didn't cheat while he was here?

What do you know ?

Perception is reality.

No it is not. It is perception. And who cares what the "perception" of Memphis basketball is? Do you know what the "perception" is of the current NCAA champs in basketball?

Memphis basketball needs to be re-branded. We need guys that are athletic and fundamentally sound. We need players that buy into the team concept. We need players that can shoot worth a flip and make a FT. That and we need guys who are willing to play defense. If people see those things when we play, it will be a much more attractive place for a kid to want to go. Obviously winning is important, but we're in rebuilding mode. Getting busted (yet again) for cheating after having to take a banner down not that long ago would be a bad look.

to who? other teams fans? Just means we have been beating their ass. the ncaa? who cares, the most they can do is take a banner and throw you on a year post season ban. The memories will be there. The brand will be out there with kids who could give two craps about "perception" but do care about tournament runs.

Like the dude in Blue Chips said, "I **** better when we are winning"

(05-03-2017 02:29 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:59 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:52 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby could have built a solid team with the players he is bringing in and then compliment them with a top 10 kid like Chandler and/or DJ to become the focal point. He can still do that, but it just doesn't seem like he wants to work it like hes going to need to do in order to get one of those kids. Cal's genius was not his ability to get around a rule: his genius was his abiity to team build. His genius was taking a team that went twice to the Elite 8 and convince them to turn over the reigns to a freshmen. If Tubby is going to win here like the fans expect him to win, then its going to take something more than what he is currently bringing in.

That's what is bothering me too. The projections (based on stats) for how JuCo players pan out in D1 are not good---seem to be weighing in at about 50% of what they did in junior college.

You riding Saluki's coattails on that one? Old ploy, there, lol.

Not sure how true that is, statistically. It's a system he uses and he cites examples where he's right. I think there were enough examples of where he was wrong to make the deviation pretty high for that process.

Why not post a few that disprove the 50% rule before knocking it.


Here are Saluki's. He uses WVA because Huggins is known to coach up JUCO players.

WVU: Jonathan Holton. #15 ranked JUCO. 20ppg 15 rpg at JUCO. At WVU: 9 and 7.

Sam Cassel Jr. : #19 ranked JUCO. 19 ppg 4 apg at JUCO. At UConn: 3.1 ppg 0.6 apg.

Trahson Burrell. #7 ranked JUCO. 25 ppg 8 rebounds, 6 assists. At Memphis: 10, 6, and 2.

Teyvon Myers: #6 ranked JUCO. 25 ppg. 4 rpg.
At WVU: 4.5 ppg 1.0 rpg.

Devon Thomas: #34 ranked JUCO: 16.9 ppg, 6.2 apg, & 4.3 rpg.
Recruited by Tubby at Texas Tech: 3.5 ppg, 1.8 apg, and 1.6 rpg.

Justin Jamison (6'9 260):#43 JUCO. 10.4 ppg, 6.8 rpg. (Basically Mike Parks v1.0)
Recruited by Tubby at Texas Tech: 2.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg.

Geron Johnson: #1 JUCO. 19.6 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 4.6 apg.
At Memphis: 9.6 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 3.5 apg. (playing 28 mpg)

If you can find more than a handful of top 7 conference JUCO's (P5+AAC+BE) where players exceed the 50% rule, let's see them.

(05-03-2017 12:45 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  played correctly, Tubby could have rebuit the program and still had Keelon on the staff. In order to win on an elite level, Memphis will need elite talent and Keelon would have provided that talent. His son's, Chandler and Jonathan will be elite college players. His nephew DJ Jefferies will be a top 10 kid. Had Tubby kept Keelon in a recruiting assistant role, he would have an elite players to build teams around... the same formula Cal used to win big here. As it is, we will be asking plow horses to compete with thoroughbreds. It might win us a game in the NCAA tournament, but it won't win any hardware.

The crystal ball is not always as clear as fans believe it to be. In other words, speaking in absolutes ("will be..." "He would have...", etc.) doesn't mean the future will unfold that way.

Ya never know.....

(05-03-2017 02:29 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:59 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:52 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby could have built a solid team with the players he is bringing in and then compliment them with a top 10 kid like Chandler and/or DJ to become the focal point. He can still do that, but it just doesn't seem like he wants to work it like hes going to need to do in order to get one of those kids. Cal's genius was not his ability to get around a rule: his genius was his abiity to team build. His genius was taking a team that went twice to the Elite 8 and convince them to turn over the reigns to a freshmen. If Tubby is going to win here like the fans expect him to win, then its going to take something more than what he is currently bringing in.

That's what is bothering me too. The projections (based on stats) for how JuCo players pan out in D1 are not good---seem to be weighing in at about 50% of what they did in junior college.

You riding Saluki's coattails on that one? Old ploy, there, lol.

Not sure how true that is, statistically. It's a system he uses and he cites examples where he's right. I think there were enough examples of where he was wrong to make the deviation pretty high for that process.

Here ya go---there's a bone or two in here.




247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=JuniorCollege

Comprehensive list of Top 20 JUCO who attended P5+AAC+BE (ie no cherry picking) the best of the 2015 JUCO class.

TJ Dunans #2 JUCO: 22 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg
Auburn: (Jr.) 12/3/3, (Sr.) 9/3/2

Akolda Manyang: #3 JUCO: 9.0 ppg 7.1 rpg
OU: (Jr.) 2.5 ppg 2.1 rpg

Igor Ibaka: #5 JUCO: 14.0 ppg 9.8 rpg
Ok. State: 0.9 ppg 1.1 rpg

Teyvon Myers: #6 ranked JUCO. 25 ppg. 4 rpg.
At WVU: 4.5 ppg 1.0 rpg.

Malik Dime: #7 JUCO: 10.8 ppg, 7.1 rpg
U. of Wash: (Jr.) 6.9 ppg 5.6 rpg (Sr.) 5.5 ppg 4.9 rpg

Darien Williams: #10 JUCO 16.1 ppg 6.7 rpg
at St. Johns: (Jr.) 3.0 ppg 3.0 rpg (Sr.) 3.3 ppg 2.3 rpg

Chris Boucher: #11 JUCO: 22.5 ppg 11.8 rpg
At Oregon: (Jr.) 12.1 ppg 7.4 prg (Sr.) 13.2 ppg 6.9 rpg

Andre Spight: #12 JUCO: 15 ppg, 3.5 apg, 3.5 rpg
at Arizona State: (Jr) 6.6 ppg 1.3 apg 0.9 rpg (Sr.) Transferred

Justin Leon: #13 JUCO: 21.5 ppg 10.0 rpg
At Florida: (Jr.) 5.3 ppg 3.1 rpg (Sr.) 6.3 ppg 3.2 ppg

Mychal Mulder: #14 JUCO 15.7 ppg 6.4 rpg
At Kentucky: (Jr.) 0.5 ppg 1.1 r[g (Sr.) 6.5 ppg 1.9 rpg

Deshawn Freeman: #15 JUCO: 19.2 ppg 9.6 rpg
At Rutgers: (Jr.) 13.1 ppg 5.3 rpg (Sr.) 11.5 ppg 8.6 rpg

Ty Outlaw: #16 JUCO: 21.8 ppg 5.0 rpg
at Virginia Tech: (Jr.) 3.9 ppg 2.4 rpg

Jaylen Brantley: #17 JUCO: 14.3 ppg 3.7 apg
at Maryland: (Jr.) 2.3 ppg 0.6 apg (Sr.) 5.7 ppg 1.1 apg

Maurice O'Field: #19 JUCO: 15.8 ppg 5.0 rpg
at Arizona State: (Jr.) 0.5 ppg 0.8 rpg (Sr.) 0.8 ppg 0.6 rpg

That's the top 20.

More busts at #21 and #22, but to make 87 feel better, there are:

Vladimir Brodziansky: #23 JUCO: 15.3 ppg 8.8 rpg
At TCU: (Jr.) 9.7 ppg 4.5 rpg (Sr.) 13.8 ppg 6.0 rpg

Rob Gray: #27 JUCO: 18.2 ppg 5.8 rpg
At UH: (Jr.) 16.0 ppg 2.0 rpg (Sr.) 20.6 ppg 3.3 rpg

Devon Thomas: #34 ranked JUCO: 16.9 ppg, 6.2 apg, & 4.3 rpg.
Recruited by Tubby at Texas Tech: 3.5 ppg, 1.8 apg, and 1.6 rpg.


Average JUCO PPG: 17.2
Average 1st year D1 PPG: 6.1

(05-03-2017 03:44 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 02:29 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:59 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:52 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby could have built a solid team with the players he is bringing in and then compliment them with a top 10 kid like Chandler and/or DJ to become the focal point. He can still do that, but it just doesn't seem like he wants to work it like hes going to need to do in order to get one of those kids. Cal's genius was not his ability to get around a rule: his genius was his abiity to team build. His genius was taking a team that went twice to the Elite 8 and convince them to turn over the reigns to a freshmen. If Tubby is going to win here like the fans expect him to win, then its going to take something more than what he is currently bringing in.

That's what is bothering me too. The projections (based on stats) for how JuCo players pan out in D1 are not good---seem to be weighing in at about 50% of what they did in junior college.

You riding Saluki's coattails on that one? Old ploy, there, lol.

Not sure how true that is, statistically. It's a system he uses and he cites examples where he's right. I think there were enough examples of where he was wrong to make the deviation pretty high for that process.

Here ya go---there's a bone or two in here.




247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=JuniorCollege

Comprehensive list of Top 20 JUCO who attended P5+AAC+BE (ie no cherry picking) the best of the 2015 JUCO class.

TJ Dunans #2 JUCO: 22 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg
Auburn: (Jr.) 12/3/3, (Sr.) 9/3/2

Akolda Manyang: #3 JUCO: 9.0 ppg 7.1 rpg
OU: (Jr.) 2.5 ppg 2.1 rpg

Igor Ibaka: #5 JUCO: 14.0 ppg 9.8 rpg
Ok. State: 0.9 ppg 1.1 rpg

Teyvon Myers: #6 ranked JUCO. 25 ppg. 4 rpg.
At WVU: 4.5 ppg 1.0 rpg.

Malik Dime: #7 JUCO: 10.8 ppg, 7.1 rpg
U. of Wash: (Jr.) 6.9 ppg 5.6 rpg (Sr.) 5.5 ppg 4.9 rpg

Darien Williams: #10 JUCO 16.1 ppg 6.7 rpg
at St. Johns: (Jr.) 3.0 ppg 3.0 rpg (Sr.) 3.3 ppg 2.3 rpg

Chris Boucher: #11 JUCO: 22.5 ppg 11.8 rpg
At Oregon: (Jr.) 12.1 ppg 7.4 prg (Sr.) 13.2 ppg 6.9 rpg

Andre Spight: #12 JUCO: 15 ppg, 3.5 apg, 3.5 rpg
at Arizona State: (Jr) 6.6 ppg 1.3 apg 0.9 rpg (Sr.) Transferred

Justin Leon: #13 JUCO: 21.5 ppg 10.0 rpg
At Florida: (Jr.) 5.3 ppg 3.1 rpg (Sr.) 6.3 ppg 3.2 ppg

Mychal Mulder: #14 JUCO 15.7 ppg 6.4 rpg
At Kentucky: (Jr.) 0.5 ppg 1.1 r[g (Sr.) 6.5 ppg 1.9 rpg

Deshawn Freeman: #15 JUCO: 19.2 ppg 9.6 rpg
At Rutgers: (Jr.) 13.1 ppg 5.3 rpg (Sr.) 11.5 ppg 8.6 rpg

Ty Outlaw: #16 JUCO: 21.8 ppg 5.0 rpg
at Virginia Tech: (Jr.) 3.9 ppg 2.4 rpg

Jaylen Brantley: #17 JUCO: 14.3 ppg 3.7 apg
at Maryland: (Jr.) 2.3 ppg 0.6 apg (Sr.) 5.7 ppg 1.1 apg

Maurice O'Field: #19 JUCO: 15.8 ppg 5.0 rpg
at Arizona State: (Jr.) 0.5 ppg 0.8 rpg (Sr.) 0.8 ppg 0.6 rpg

That's the top 20.

More busts at #21 and #22, but to make 87 feel better, there are:

Vladimir Brodziansky: #23 JUCO: 15.3 ppg 8.8 rpg
At TCU: (Jr.) 9.7 ppg 4.5 rpg (Sr.) 13.8 ppg 6.0 rpg

Rob Gray: #27 JUCO: 18.2 ppg 5.8 rpg
At UH: (Jr.) 16.0 ppg 2.0 rpg (Sr.) 20.6 ppg 3.3 rpg

Devon Thomas: #34 ranked JUCO: 16.9 ppg, 6.2 apg, & 4.3 rpg.
Recruited by Tubby at Texas Tech: 3.5 ppg, 1.8 apg, and 1.6 rpg.


Average JUCO PPG: 17.2
Average 1st year D1 PPG: 6.1

Holy crap.

So if we get 5 JUCOs, based on the stats above they will give us a combined 30 PPG. If we stay with the 4 guys we've signed then they'll only give us 24 PPG. We can revisit this thread at the end of next season to see if that holds true.

(05-03-2017 03:44 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 02:29 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:59 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(05-03-2017 01:52 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby could have built a solid team with the players he is bringing in and then compliment them with a top 10 kid like Chandler and/or DJ to become the focal point. He can still do that, but it just doesn't seem like he wants to work it like hes going to need to do in order to get one of those kids. Cal's genius was not his ability to get around a rule: his genius was his abiity to team build. His genius was taking a team that went twice to the Elite 8 and convince them to turn over the reigns to a freshmen. If Tubby is going to win here like the fans expect him to win, then its going to take something more than what he is currently bringing in.

That's what is bothering me too. The projections (based on stats) for how JuCo players pan out in D1 are not good---seem to be weighing in at about 50% of what they did in junior college.

You riding Saluki's coattails on that one? Old ploy, there, lol.

Not sure how true that is, statistically. It's a system he uses and he cites examples where he's right. I think there were enough examples of where he was wrong to make the deviation pretty high for that process.

Here ya go---there's a bone or two in here.




247sports.com/Season/2015-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=JuniorCollege

Comprehensive list of Top 20 JUCO who attended P5+AAC+BE (ie no cherry picking) the best of the 2015 JUCO class.

TJ Dunans #2 JUCO: 22 ppg, 8 rpg, 4 apg
Auburn: (Jr.) 12/3/3, (Sr.) 9/3/2

Akolda Manyang: #3 JUCO: 9.0 ppg 7.1 rpg
OU: (Jr.) 2.5 ppg 2.1 rpg

Igor Ibaka: #5 JUCO: 14.0 ppg 9.8 rpg
Ok. State: 0.9 ppg 1.1 rpg

Teyvon Myers: #6 ranked JUCO. 25 ppg. 4 rpg.
At WVU: 4.5 ppg 1.0 rpg.

Malik Dime: #7 JUCO: 10.8 ppg, 7.1 rpg
U. of Wash: (Jr.) 6.9 ppg 5.6 rpg (Sr.) 5.5 ppg 4.9 rpg

Darien Williams: #10 JUCO 16.1 ppg 6.7 rpg
at St. Johns: (Jr.) 3.0 ppg 3.0 rpg (Sr.) 3.3 ppg 2.3 rpg

Chris Boucher: #11 JUCO: 22.5 ppg 11.8 rpg
At Oregon: (Jr.) 12.1 ppg 7.4 prg (Sr.) 13.2 ppg 6.9 rpg

Andre Spight: #12 JUCO: 15 ppg, 3.5 apg, 3.5 rpg
at Arizona State: (Jr) 6.6 ppg 1.3 apg 0.9 rpg (Sr.) Transferred

Justin Leon: #13 JUCO: 21.5 ppg 10.0 rpg
At Florida: (Jr.) 5.3 ppg 3.1 rpg (Sr.) 6.3 ppg 3.2 ppg

Mychal Mulder: #14 JUCO 15.7 ppg 6.4 rpg
At Kentucky: (Jr.) 0.5 ppg 1.1 r[g (Sr.) 6.5 ppg 1.9 rpg

Deshawn Freeman: #15 JUCO: 19.2 ppg 9.6 rpg
At Rutgers: (Jr.) 13.1 ppg 5.3 rpg (Sr.) 11.5 ppg 8.6 rpg

Ty Outlaw: #16 JUCO: 21.8 ppg 5.0 rpg
at Virginia Tech: (Jr.) 3.9 ppg 2.4 rpg

Jaylen Brantley: #17 JUCO: 14.3 ppg 3.7 apg
at Maryland: (Jr.) 2.3 ppg 0.6 apg (Sr.) 5.7 ppg 1.1 apg

Maurice O'Field: #19 JUCO: 15.8 ppg 5.0 rpg
at Arizona State: (Jr.) 0.5 ppg 0.8 rpg (Sr.) 0.8 ppg 0.6 rpg

That's the top 20.

More busts at #21 and #22, but to make 87 feel better, there are:

Vladimir Brodziansky: #23 JUCO: 15.3 ppg 8.8 rpg
At TCU: (Jr.) 9.7 ppg 4.5 rpg (Sr.) 13.8 ppg 6.0 rpg

Rob Gray: #27 JUCO: 18.2 ppg 5.8 rpg
At UH: (Jr.) 16.0 ppg 2.0 rpg (Sr.) 20.6 ppg 3.3 rpg

Devon Thomas: #34 ranked JUCO: 16.9 ppg, 6.2 apg, & 4.3 rpg.
Recruited by Tubby at Texas Tech: 3.5 ppg, 1.8 apg, and 1.6 rpg.


Average JUCO PPG: 17.2
Average 1st year D1 PPG: 6.1

Good work, uh, Snow. There's a lot of variation (+ and -) in there. I think the 50% estimate is fine, if you want to use something. The problem is minutes. This is a lot of guys going into a lot of different situations. Minutes could have as much to do with production as anything. The thing with our team is - we have a lot of minutes available. Probably more than just about every team on that list.

But really, I was just busting your chops based on what you said earlier about riding someone else's coattails. Of course, it's possible you're really not riding anyone's coattails, I suppose...