(05-02-2017 07:17 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Don't care what you call yourself, when your league champ could go 12-1 and the best they can do is play in a Miami Bowl versus the Sunbelt on a weekday afternoon before Christmas the world fills in its own designations as appropriate.

We have a winner.

How about a basketball team that wins over 30 games, it's conference regular season and tournament championship, and only gets a 6 seed.

Delude yourself all you want, self medicate if it helps, but the reality is Clifton is now the home of minor league sports including one that needs notches.

(05-02-2017 05:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Not sure what people's issue is with this. Conference is aiming to be there with the big boys. On the field it's not there, but it's been easily a better league than the rest most of the time. I don't want the AAC to make it's goal to be the best of the rest.... it should aim higher and market accordingly. It should do everything it can to be viewed above the G5...even if it's not viewed as P5 level (and rightfully as of today). I doubt it ever has a P5 feel, but I have no problem with the league making that the target and pushing its programs to act accordingly.

Would designating the AAC as a L1 suffice? 'L' is right in between G and P, plus it could stand for 'Limbo'.

(05-02-2017 07:26 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 06:29 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 02:53 PM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  The worst thing we (we being the conference as well as UC fans) can do is refer to ourselves as G5. A G5 school, G5 program, smaller school. While referring to schools like Wake, Purdue, NW, Vandy, WSU, PITT, etc as P5 programs.

We are a P5 program and school, stuck in a tweener conference. If anyone is gonna believe that, it's gotta start with us.

There's a handful of blueblood programs. Then us mixed with a BUNCH of schools in the middle, and then like Tulane and Wake Forest and a handful of others crawling on the bottom. Just because ESPN created a term based on TV contracts, doesn't mean we have to use it, or live by it. Coach Fickell sure as sh!t isn't living by it.

As for the conference putting this out, I don't mind it. It keeps the conversation going, and that can't hurt.

Problem is that it's more than just a term. The designation is the difference between good bowl games and crap, and big media rights money and crap.

Exactly. When UC was in the BCS 6 (old Big East) many would have argued it was the 6th of 6 in terms of football and conference revenue. And that was a big step up from C-USA. So reaching the #5 Power 5 looks pretty much the same at this point. Financially and in terms of overall prestige, it's still a steep fall from the worst P5 on the mountain to the best G5 way down in the canyon.

The separation in revenue was not as great either in the BCS era. IIRC, the ACC was only making ~$13M a year on their media deal during that time. Even the B10 and the SEC were only pulling in ~$20M. The Big East was making $6-10M/year.

We also had a much better bowl lineup that paid much more.

(05-02-2017 07:53 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 07:26 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 06:29 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 02:53 PM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  The worst thing we (we being the conference as well as UC fans) can do is refer to ourselves as G5. A G5 school, G5 program, smaller school. While referring to schools like Wake, Purdue, NW, Vandy, WSU, PITT, etc as P5 programs.

We are a P5 program and school, stuck in a tweener conference. If anyone is gonna believe that, it's gotta start with us.

There's a handful of blueblood programs. Then us mixed with a BUNCH of schools in the middle, and then like Tulane and Wake Forest and a handful of others crawling on the bottom. Just because ESPN created a term based on TV contracts, doesn't mean we have to use it, or live by it. Coach Fickell sure as sh!t isn't living by it.

As for the conference putting this out, I don't mind it. It keeps the conversation going, and that can't hurt.

Problem is that it's more than just a term. The designation is the difference between good bowl games and crap, and big media rights money and crap.

Exactly. When UC was in the BCS 6 (old Big East) many would have argued it was the 6th of 6 in terms of football and conference revenue. And that was a big step up from C-USA. So reaching the #5 Power 5 looks pretty much the same at this point. Financially and in terms of overall prestige, it's still a steep fall from the worst P5 on the mountain to the best G5 way down in the canyon.

The separation in revenue was not as great either in the BCS era. IIRC, the ACC was only making ~$13M a year on their media deal during that time. Even the B10 and the SEC were only pulling in ~$20M. The Big East was making $6-10M/year.

We also had a much better bowl lineup that paid much more.

Stop being so logical and providing facts.

If we can just feel big time.....

(05-02-2017 07:40 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 07:17 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Don't care what you call yourself, when your league champ could go 12-1 and the best they can do is play in a Miami Bowl versus the Sunbelt on a weekday afternoon before Christmas the world fills in its own designations as appropriate.

We have a winner.

How about a basketball team that wins over 30 games, it's conference regular season and tournament championship, and only gets a 6 seed.

Delude yourself all you want, self medicate if it helps, but the reality is Clifton is now the home of minor league sports including one that needs notches.

This wasn't about the conference. Smu beat nobody besides uc all year and nobody outside of conference. Teams repeatedly get penalized for this. Had smu gotten a couple big wins they'd have been a high seed. This isn't complicated.

Marketing team trolling ECU with the Stripper Pirate making an appearance.

(05-02-2017 07:40 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 07:17 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Don't care what you call yourself, when your league champ could go 12-1 and the best they can do is play in a Miami Bowl versus the Sunbelt on a weekday afternoon before Christmas the world fills in its own designations as appropriate.

We have a winner.

How about a basketball team that wins over 30 games, it's conference regular season and tournament championship, and only gets a 6 seed.

Delude yourself all you want, self medicate if it helps, but the reality is Clifton is now the home of minor league sports including one that needs notches.

I can't change the TV contract. I can't make the AAC not be a G5 conference. But I give the conference props for trying to change their own perception, I'd rather they at least try that than stand pat.

I'll change the opinion of anyone who tries to tell me UC is a G5 program, though.

However naive it may be, I'd much rather the AAC take this approach, than stew in whiny pessimism.

It's not pessimism. Reality whether you like it or not. Improve the play on the field and we are going to do just that. But P5 labels deal more with $$ and bowl lineups (which mean $$ and exposure) than play on the field.

With only @ $2 million annually for football and basketball combined (less than X's BE deal), UC is most definitely G5.

(05-02-2017 08:23 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  It's not pessimism. Reality whether you like it or not. Improve the play on the field and we are going to do just that. But P5 labels deal more with $$ and bowl lineups (which mean $$ and exposure) than play on the field.

With only @ $2 million annually for football and basketball combined (less than X's BE deal), UC is most definitely G5.

I see it as a perception issue. Fans and ESPN have transitioned to using the labels as a way to determine quality. If we don't see ourselves as worthy of that label, why should anyone else? The conference is currently a literal G5. It is working it's a$$ off to change the perception of the strength of it's product in hopes of further increasing future TV deals, which would lead to a more literal Power label.

And I'm not going to say UC is G5. If we as hardcore fans buy into that label, which is perceived as less than, why should a casual fan start caring or tuning in more. UC is a P5 program, it's worth watching, it's worth being excited about, and that's how I sell it when people bring up UC to me.

(05-02-2017 08:04 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 07:40 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 07:17 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Don't care what you call yourself, when your league champ could go 12-1 and the best they can do is play in a Miami Bowl versus the Sunbelt on a weekday afternoon before Christmas the world fills in its own designations as appropriate.

We have a winner.

How about a basketball team that wins over 30 games, it's conference regular season and tournament championship, and only gets a 6 seed.

Delude yourself all you want, self medicate if it helps, but the reality is Clifton is now the home of minor league sports including one that needs notches.

This wasn't about the conference. Smu beat nobody besides uc all year and nobody outside of conference. Teams repeatedly get penalized for this. Had smu gotten a couple big wins they'd have been a high seed. This isn't complicated.

Two wins over another 30 win team ranked in the Top 15 are just not good enough when playing in a minor league. You are right (sorry I know you hate that word) that it's not complicated. Teams in mid-majors do get penalized.

It's not subjective. It's objective. Numbers on paper. It's a business and it's measured just like any other business. G5 is not a slam. We can still win big.

(05-02-2017 08:42 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 08:04 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 07:40 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 07:17 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Don't care what you call yourself, when your league champ could go 12-1 and the best they can do is play in a Miami Bowl versus the Sunbelt on a weekday afternoon before Christmas the world fills in its own designations as appropriate.

We have a winner.

How about a basketball team that wins over 30 games, it's conference regular season and tournament championship, and only gets a 6 seed.

Delude yourself all you want, self medicate if it helps, but the reality is Clifton is now the home of minor league sports including one that needs notches.

This wasn't about the conference. Smu beat nobody besides uc all year and nobody outside of conference. Teams repeatedly get penalized for this. Had smu gotten a couple big wins they'd have been a high seed. This isn't complicated.

Two wins over another 30 win team ranked in the Top 15 are just not good enough when playing in a minor league. You are right (sorry I know you hate that word) that it's not complicated. Teams in mid-majors do get penalized.

The criteria is clear... there is no inherent penalty. It's just fans that like to tally wins think that is what matters. Number of wins just isn't a criteria. The committee cares about RPI top 25, top 50, top 100 wins and they are care about nonconference SOS, and they care some that you don't completely **** the bed on the road. You use those factors when you evaluate the tournament and you understand things pretty well. 2 wins over the same team isn't enough. Look at Syracuse... they have 5 or 6 big time wins, but were left out. It wasn't a big conference penalty. It was a Syracuse was really terrible on the road penalty. Memphis earned plenty of high seeds in a worse CUSA because they went out and beat people in the nonconference. Quality wins are by and large the measure, with some weight to nonconference SOS and not shitting the bed on the road.

BTW there are plenty of issues with how the committee seeds teams, but it's not like they look and say "SMU is in the AAC we are dropping them." Their criteria was what dropped them. I'd love to see them give more weight to predictive metrics than they do and weight wins based on home / road better... Both those things would have helped SMU, but the idea that SMU was dropped because of the conference they are in is a silly delusion.

(05-02-2017 08:58 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 08:04 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Teams repeatedly get penalized for this.

The criteria is clear... there is no inherent penalty.

Sorry Counselor, you lost me when you contradicted your own statement.

We will just have to wait and see how AAC members are treated next year. No way of getting around playing league members, some of them even twice. The poor rankings are built into the fabric of the league.

I glanced at the powerpoint, but I didn't see a concrete plan to put eyeballs on screen. That's what it's all about over the long term. TV pays for eyeballs on screen.

(05-02-2017 07:50 AM)Ragpicker Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 05:59 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  Not sure what people's issue is with this. Conference is aiming to be there with the big boys. On the field it's not there, but it's been easily a better league than the rest most of the time. I don't want the AAC to make it's goal to be the best of the rest.... it should aim higher and market accordingly. It should do everything it can to be viewed above the G5...even if it's not viewed as P5 level (and rightfully as of today). I doubt it ever has a P5 feel, but I have no problem with the league making that the target and pushing its programs to act accordingly.

Would designating the AAC as a L1 suffice? 'L' is right in between G and P, plus it could stand for 'Limbo'.

More like PU for purgatory.

(05-02-2017 08:23 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  It's not pessimism. Reality whether you like it or not. Improve the play on the field and we are going to do just that. But P5 labels deal more with $$ and bowl lineups (which mean $$ and exposure) than play on the field.

With only @ $2 million annually for football and basketball combined (less than X's BE deal), UC is most definitely G5.

It even filters down to when you get to play your games. How often are Indiana or Minnesota playing on a Wednesday night? Ever?

(05-02-2017 07:17 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 06:29 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 02:53 PM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  The worst thing we (we being the conference as well as UC fans) can do is refer to ourselves as G5. A G5 school, G5 program, smaller school. While referring to schools like Wake, Purdue, NW, Vandy, WSU, PITT, etc as P5 programs.

We are a P5 program and school, stuck in a tweener conference. If anyone is gonna believe that, it's gotta start with us.

There's a handful of blueblood programs. Then us mixed with a BUNCH of schools in the middle, and then like Tulane and Wake Forest and a handful of others crawling on the bottom. Just because ESPN created a term based on TV contracts, doesn't mean we have to use it, or live by it. Coach Fickell sure as sh!t isn't living by it.

As for the conference putting this out, I don't mind it. It keeps the conversation going, and that can't hurt.

Problem is that it's more than just a term. The designation is the difference between good bowl games and crap, and big media rights money and crap.

Don't care what you call yourself, when your league champ could go 12-1 and the best they can do is play in a FRISCO (TX) Bowl versus the Sunbelt on a weekday afternoon before Christmas the world fills in its own designations as appropriate.

http://theamerican.org/news/2013/12/5/FB...34743.aspx

FIFY... The "Miami Beach Bowl" has been sold and is being relocated to a 20K soccer stadium in Frisco, TX...

(05-02-2017 11:58 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 07:17 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 06:29 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 02:53 PM)The T-Shirt Wrote:  The worst thing we (we being the conference as well as UC fans) can do is refer to ourselves as G5. A G5 school, G5 program, smaller school. While referring to schools like Wake, Purdue, NW, Vandy, WSU, PITT, etc as P5 programs.

We are a P5 program and school, stuck in a tweener conference. If anyone is gonna believe that, it's gotta start with us.

There's a handful of blueblood programs. Then us mixed with a BUNCH of schools in the middle, and then like Tulane and Wake Forest and a handful of others crawling on the bottom. Just because ESPN created a term based on TV contracts, doesn't mean we have to use it, or live by it. Coach Fickell sure as sh!t isn't living by it.

As for the conference putting this out, I don't mind it. It keeps the conversation going, and that can't hurt.

Problem is that it's more than just a term. The designation is the difference between good bowl games and crap, and big media rights money and crap.

Don't care what you call yourself, when your league champ could go 12-1 and the best they can do is play in a FRISCO (TX) Bowl versus the Sunbelt on a weekday afternoon before Christmas the world fills in its own designations as appropriate.

http://theamerican.org/news/2013/12/5/FB...34743.aspx

FIFY... The "Miami Beach Bowl" has been sold and is being relocated to a 20K soccer stadium in Frisco, TX...

Does the soccer field have notches? It would be just like home.

Seriously that sucks. Now the bowlcation fans just took a hit. Ouch.

(05-01-2017 12:28 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Aresco is sticking with the P6 narrative.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/conn...c-plan.pdf

Pillar 3 "Athletic Excellence" doesn't include adding more basketball only powerhouses... WTF..?!

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