(05-02-2017 07:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't really buy the argument that Rutgers and Maryland move the cable network needle more than KU/OU would have.

Both KU/OU would be drawing eyes both within their own state and increasing the number of eyeballs in the footprint.

The state population argument is a bit vague.

Up until recently Maryland & Rutgers had reputations of commuter schools not athletic schools.

B1G would be smart to take in both KU/OU to be more of a national conference. KU doesn't draw anything in FB but neither did Maryland and Rutgers.

Texas then could use its weight to go Indy and strike an ND with the B12. Add Houston and Cincinnati all sports but 9 in FB with Texas an Indy.

(04-30-2017 07:56 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  I think the Big XII will have the fate of the Big East. They are the low man on the totem pole for the power conference like the Big East was during the BCS. They all have the fewest members and no conference championship like the Big East. With the PAC-12 having money issues as well I think they offer a deal with Texas that Texas can not turndown.

This is how it happens Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and Houston go to the PAC-12 to become the PAC-16.

The Big Ten takes Kansas and Missouri. While the SEC adds West Virginia, Oklahoma, and TCU.

The ACC adds Notre Dame and Cincinnati.

Baylor, Kansas State, and Iowa State keep the Big 12 alive and merge with the American plus BYU, Air Force, Army, Colorado State, and Rice to form the Big 18.

WEST
BYU
Air Force
Colorado State
Kansas State
Iowa State
Tulsa
SMU
Baylor
Rice


EAST
Tulane
Memphis
UConn
Temple
Army
Navy
East Carolina
UCF
South Florida

At which point I think the playoff expands to 8 with the P4 + Big 18 champs all making the playoffs and 3 at large teams.

Any scenario which has ECU in the B12 can't be taken seriously.

ECU has great fans but is a very average AAC football program on the field. For some reason they do not get the players like they should be able to do. Memphis and Temple even have shown more of an ability to recruit.

ECU's best hope is the AAC can get a nice TV deal that stays intact after the conference has some defections. Keep basketball at the CUSA 1.0 level long term.

(05-02-2017 01:54 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 12:25 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  It proves that PSU wanted them, and that PSU makes the B1G a huge amount of money

PSU is one vote. It takes more than one vote for a school to be added.

Nice try.


The reason that everyone voted for Rutgers and Maryland is that they were two public flagship, high research schools, in states that offered a lot of new cable subscribers to the BTN, and were going to be easy wins in football to feed PSU, Michigan, Mich St, and Ohio St.

Win-win-win-win, and it worked!


That formula will be followed again, if/when the Big Ten expands again.

PSU was one vote. Then the schools that like PSU's money and don't want them to leave were the rest.

PSU aside, RU was added because NJ is good for recruiting and is close to donors. UMD is the same, plus they have competent teams. Additionally, both schools have solid academics (but for reasons other than those that you listed). However, the academic component was extremely minimal. It really came down to how much money each school brought into (or kept in) the conference, and how the impacted recruiting.

The number of people in the state, the "flagship" status, the AAU status, the land grant status, the status as a public school, and the research level are/were all irrelevant. And, for the record, the fan interest that each school brought into the conference was the extent of their media dollars contribution. The schmuck who doesn't care about either school isn't paying the cable companies an incremental dime for the BTN, so the cable companies aren't shelling it out to the network. The same is true for Syracuse, New York, and the upcoming ACCN. Why? Because of basic market research, 5th grade math, and the concept of supply and demand.

(05-02-2017 08:10 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(04-30-2017 07:56 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  I think the Big XII will have the fate of the Big East. They are the low man on the totem pole for the power conference like the Big East was during the BCS. They all have the fewest members and no conference championship like the Big East. With the PAC-12 having money issues as well I think they offer a deal with Texas that Texas can not turndown.

This is how it happens Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and Houston go to the PAC-12 to become the PAC-16.

The Big Ten takes Kansas and Missouri. While the SEC adds West Virginia, Oklahoma, and TCU.

The ACC adds Notre Dame and Cincinnati.

Baylor, Kansas State, and Iowa State keep the Big 12 alive and merge with the American plus BYU, Air Force, Army, Colorado State, and Rice to form the Big 18.

WEST
BYU
Air Force
Colorado State
Kansas State
Iowa State
Tulsa
SMU
Baylor
Rice


EAST
Tulane
Memphis
UConn
Temple
Army
Navy
East Carolina
UCF
South Florida

At which point I think the playoff expands to 8 with the P4 + Big 18 champs all making the playoffs and 3 at large teams.

Any scenario which has ECU in the B12 can't be taken seriously.

ECU has great fans but is a very average AAC football program on the field. For some reason they do not get the players like they should be able to do. Memphis and Temple even have shown more of an ability to recruit.

ECU's best hope is the AAC can get a nice TV deal that stays intact after the conference has some defections. Keep basketball at the CUSA 1.0 level long term.

I agree with this.

ECU has very little chance of being included in any conversation on the subject.

(05-01-2017 06:52 AM)TerryD Wrote:  [Notre Dame] contractually does not have to join for football and that contract runs through 2036.

Thanks to TerryD for that info. I've looked in a lot of places trying to find that. Link?

(05-01-2017 02:58 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 02:09 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 12:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 12:12 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 12:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Now say B1G or SEC makes OU and KU a deal they can't refuse when the Big XII grant of rights is closer to expiration.

I don't think either conference wants to do that unless they are pretty certain that they will also end up with UT.

I think that whether it's the Pac-12, Big Ten, or SEC, their first choice is to bring UT into their conference, but if they can't have that, then their second choice is to leave UT where they are rather than seeing the Horns go to one of the other two.

Here is the issue I have with most of these scenarios. If Texas has to give up the LHN, why would UT ever go west to the Pac12? Every conference wants UT. If they decide the Big12 isn't working, UT will leave, but it wont be for the Pac12. They are not going to put their athletic teams at a disadvantage due to time zone differences. They aren't going to go to the conference who's games end while everyone else is asleep. Texas isn't going to a conference that markets itself to 20% of the population when they could address 80% of the nation in an central/east leaning conference. Big10, ACC, and SEC are all far more likely and make far more sense than the Pac12. The only reason people mention the Pac12 is because they have been the most aggressive suitor for Texas---but they aren't the best match.

Because of that, I think any Pac12 move into the central time zone is extremely unlikely to include UT.

Let me pose an alternate thought.

The time zone issue is quite real but Colorado is only one hour off and Arizona and Arizona State are also one hour off from the first Sunday in November to the second Sunday in March.

A 16 team Pac that places Texas, three other Central schools, Arizona, Arizona State, and Colorado (presumably with Utah) in the same division means very minimal time zone issues (getting Arizona and Arizona State to move away from USC and UCLA is its own challenge).

But Pac-xx is quite possibly the easier sale for Texas because of the Pac-Network sub channels.

I think Arizona and Arizona State would be happy with games in Texas for recruiting purposes as well. Plus they will almost always have a game against a California team each year since there would be four in the opposite division. Plus with games in Texas now, the Arizona schools, Utah and Colorado can schedule non-conference games against SDSU or Fresno State for California games OR play games in the new LA Stadium for a neutral site game every few years.

the Mountain schools especially the Arizona schools would never allow themselves to be cut off from California like they would be if they were shipped off to the Big-12 division of a Pac-16. The four of them would vote together to block expansion until they were given some form of a guarantee that the conference wouldn't implement an east/west alignment, so if expansion were to happen we would likely be talking about some sort of pod system.

(05-02-2017 08:47 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  The number of people in the state, the "flagship" status, the AAU status, the land grant status, the status as a public school, and the research level are/were all irrelevant.

It's easy enough to claim they are irrelevant, when by some incredible coincidence, all of the moves fit with the claim that they are relevant to the political terrain that a number of Big Ten Presidents have to navigate.

People were talking about super conference of 24 teams in 4 of the P5 conferences, The idea is that the ACC could get decimated for it to work. 24X4=96 teams. I do think schools like Buffalo, Stony Brook and NDSU might fit in somewhere.

The Big 12 needs to stay together.

The Big 10 wants the ACC schools, Notre Dame and Texas.

SEC wants Virginia Tech, NC State and Oklahoma. I could see them get Cincinnati because Ohio is a neighboring state.

Big 12 will restock from MWC, AAC, and maybe the Dakota schools with a maybe of Montana.

That is the only thing I could see happen. Once Texas gone from the Big 12? They will not be stable.

(05-02-2017 09:14 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 06:52 AM)TerryD Wrote:  [Notre Dame] contractually does not have to join for football and that contract runs through 2036.

Thanks to TerryD for that info. I've looked in a lot of places trying to find that. Link?

It was part of the new ACC deal that involved the ACC Network and the extension of the ACC Grant of Rights until 2036:



"Also during that one-on-one, Swofford said that Notre Dame, an ACC member for sports other than football, will receive a full share of ACC Network revenue. The Fighting Irish receive one-fifth of a full share of the conference’s guaranteed rights fees from ESPN.

And while the full-share arrangement may frustrate some who want Notre Dame all in, understand that without the Irish’s national brand and overall sports excellence, there might well not be an ACC Network. Further, Notre Dame will produce more than its share of ACC Network content."


http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...-post.html



"(T)he ACC and ESPN also have "agreed to a 20-year deal and rights extension" through the '35-36 academic year. A source said that the ACC also "extended its conference grant of rights deal nine years" through '35-36. The conference's grant of rights makes it "untenable financially for a school to leave, guaranteeing in the 20 years of the deal that a school's media rights, including revenue, for all home games would remain with the ACC regardless of the school's affiliation." A source said that the new grant of rights also "automatically extends Notre Dame's contract with the conference as a member in all sports but football" through '35-36. If Notre Dame forgoes football independence in the next 20 years, they are "contracted to join the ACC."



(The key phrase is "automatically extends Notre Dame's contract with the conference as a member IN ALL SPORTS BUT FOOTBALL through '35-36).


http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily...C-Net.aspx



"That partnership that Notre Dame formed with the ACC only got stronger this year with the new grant of rights deal. The ACC will launch a new ACC Network in August of 2019 with ESPN. This deal will last through the 2035-2036 season. It makes leaving the ACC almost impossible for any school that would wish to do so, and of course this means Notre Dame as well. The Irish are contractually obligated to join the ACC in football should it choose to leave being an independent behind.

Swofford said Notre Dame was no closer to joining the conference for football, but "the phone lines are always open."

http://www.onefootdown.com/2016/7/29/123...-of-rights




"Most important, the ACC holds one particular trump card that could eventually prove to be extremely lucrative: Notre Dame.

As soon as the ACC news broke earlier this week, speculation immediately turned to college sports’ eternal question: Will this force the Irish to finally join a conference in football.

The short-term answer is no.

[b]ACC schools will be getting a sizeable bump from forthcoming network revenue, and Notre Dame will receive a full share[/b], commissioner John Swofford told the Daily Press. Deep-pocketed Notre Dame is not nearly as dependent on TV revenue as most programs, but even middling Power 5 programs currently receive more than the Irish’s combined annual take from NBC ($15 million) and the ACC’s ESPN deal ($6.2 million). Another $5-$8 million a year from the conference network will help it close the gap.

And as much as the skeptics roll their eyes, university leaders and alumni still value the exposure that comes from playing an independent schedule. This season, the Irish visit Texas, New Jersey, North Carolina, Florida and Southern California. Every other year includes a trip to the Bay Area, and recent seasons have seen them play games in Arizona, Colorado, Chicago and Ireland.

Along with the network details, the ACC announced last week that its 15 members (including Notre Dame) extended their existing Grant of Rights agreement until 2036. Notre Dame’s other sports aren’t going anywhere for at least the next two decades. So if it at some point it wants to plant football in a conference, it’s almost certainly going to be in the ACC.

"Obviously," Swofford said, "there’s an open phone line for that to take place."

Much to its haters’ chagrin —€“ and in large part because of them — Notre Dame remains one of the sport’s most consistently watched programs..."


http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...ord-072516

"McMurphy also notes that the new deal extends Notre Dame's contract to be a member of the ACC in every sport except football through the 2035-36 season. The Irish will continue to schedule ACC opponents in football and would be contractually required to join the league if it decided to give up independence and join a conference within the next two decades."


http://www.cbssports.com/college-footbal...d-tv-deal/



So, ND gets a full share of any ACC Network revenues without having to commit its football program to the conference.

The new ACC deal contractually guarantees that the ACC GOR will last until 2036, giving ND a solid home for 24 of its 26 sports programs for the next 19 years without any increased commitment in ACC football games or anything else.

It contractually acknowledges that ND does not HAVE TO to join the ACC for football at any time, but IF ND does decide to join a football conference, it is the ACC.

(05-02-2017 07:40 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't really buy the argument that Rutgers and Maryland move the cable network needle more than KU/OU would have.

Nothing to buy, really. It's a simple matter of new cable TV households that can be forced to pay for BTN on the standard tier channel bundles, at the "in-state" carriage rate.

(05-02-2017 08:04 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  B1G would be smart to take in both KU/OU to be more of a national conference.

No conference is anything close to a national conference. Nor will or should there ever be one.

Provincialism is one of the foundational pillars of college football. "Our state is better than your's, and our football team proves it".


Nebraska was a reach, but within reason. Kansas is more of a reach. Oklahoma is a straight NO.

(05-02-2017 08:47 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  It really came down to how much money each school brought into (or kept in) the conference, and how the impacted recruiting.

If taken literally, then the Big Ten could've just as well added NJ Tech and UM Baltimore County.

So that was easily disproven.


Quite obviously, it had to not only be public flagship universities, but it had to be "Big Ten like" public flagship universities: large enrollments, large budget, large research focus.

No idea why you waste your time trying wriggle your way around that. Oh ... I guess because Syracuse isn't one?? So what? You're in the ACC, which is a great conference. You have nothing to be ashamed of.

I think the ACC/Swofford dream is to get Texas as a full member and hope ND would join as well. OU and OSU go to the SEC. OU vs TX still played every year as part of SEC/ACC rival games.


If ND wants Indy status, I could see the ACC go after Texas and OSU. While SEC goes after Oklahoma and either WVU (Logical Fit) or Kansas St. great fit for SEC west. OU v OSU becomes part of the SEC/ACC end of season rival. If WVU is picked, Pitt and WVU become part of the SEC/ACC.

or if A&M will go for it, Texas and OU to the SEC and TCU and OSU to the ACC.
OU/OSU play SEC/ACC Rival Game

Oklahoma State will never get an offer from another conference. At least not until they achieve Carnegie R1 ranking. Until that happens they are where they are.

(05-03-2017 07:52 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-02-2017 09:14 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(05-01-2017 06:52 AM)TerryD Wrote:  [Notre Dame] contractually does not have to join for football and that contract runs through 2036.

Thanks to TerryD for that info. I've looked in a lot of places trying to find that. Link?

It was part of the new ACC deal that involved the ACC Network and the extension of the ACC Grant of Rights until 2036:



"Also during that one-on-one, Swofford said that Notre Dame, an ACC member for sports other than football, will receive a full share of ACC Network revenue. The Fighting Irish receive one-fifth of a full share of the conference’s guaranteed rights fees from ESPN.

And while the full-share arrangement may frustrate some who want Notre Dame all in, understand that without the Irish’s national brand and overall sports excellence, there might well not be an ACC Network. Further, Notre Dame will produce more than its share of ACC Network content."


http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...-post.html



"(T)he ACC and ESPN also have "agreed to a 20-year deal and rights extension" through the '35-36 academic year. A source said that the ACC also "extended its conference grant of rights deal nine years" through '35-36. The conference's grant of rights makes it "untenable financially for a school to leave, guaranteeing in the 20 years of the deal that a school's media rights, including revenue, for all home games would remain with the ACC regardless of the school's affiliation." A source said that the new grant of rights also "automatically extends Notre Dame's contract with the conference as a member in all sports but football" through '35-36. If Notre Dame forgoes football independence in the next 20 years, they are "contracted to join the ACC."



(The key phrase is "automatically extends Notre Dame's contract with the conference as a member IN ALL SPORTS BUT FOOTBALL through '35-36).


http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily...C-Net.aspx



"That partnership that Notre Dame formed with the ACC only got stronger this year with the new grant of rights deal. The ACC will launch a new ACC Network in August of 2019 with ESPN. This deal will last through the 2035-2036 season. It makes leaving the ACC almost impossible for any school that would wish to do so, and of course this means Notre Dame as well. The Irish are contractually obligated to join the ACC in football should it choose to leave being an independent behind.

Swofford said Notre Dame was no closer to joining the conference for football, but "the phone lines are always open."

http://www.onefootdown.com/2016/7/29/123...-of-rights




"Most important, the ACC holds one particular trump card that could eventually prove to be extremely lucrative: Notre Dame.

As soon as the ACC news broke earlier this week, speculation immediately turned to college sports’ eternal question: Will this force the Irish to finally join a conference in football.

The short-term answer is no.

[b]ACC schools will be getting a sizeable bump from forthcoming network revenue, and Notre Dame will receive a full share[/b], commissioner John Swofford told the Daily Press. Deep-pocketed Notre Dame is not nearly as dependent on TV revenue as most programs, but even middling Power 5 programs currently receive more than the Irish’s combined annual take from NBC ($15 million) and the ACC’s ESPN deal ($6.2 million). Another $5-$8 million a year from the conference network will help it close the gap.

And as much as the skeptics roll their eyes, university leaders and alumni still value the exposure that comes from playing an independent schedule. This season, the Irish visit Texas, New Jersey, North Carolina, Florida and Southern California. Every other year includes a trip to the Bay Area, and recent seasons have seen them play games in Arizona, Colorado, Chicago and Ireland.

Along with the network details, the ACC announced last week that its 15 members (including Notre Dame) extended their existing Grant of Rights agreement until 2036. Notre Dame’s other sports aren’t going anywhere for at least the next two decades. So if it at some point it wants to plant football in a conference, it’s almost certainly going to be in the ACC.

"Obviously," Swofford said, "there’s an open phone line for that to take place."

Much to its haters’ chagrin —€“ and in large part because of them — Notre Dame remains one of the sport’s most consistently watched programs..."


http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...ord-072516

"McMurphy also notes that the new deal extends Notre Dame's contract to be a member of the ACC in every sport except football through the 2035-36 season. The Irish will continue to schedule ACC opponents in football and would be contractually required to join the league if it decided to give up independence and join a conference within the next two decades."


http://www.cbssports.com/college-footbal...d-tv-deal/



So, ND gets a full share of any ACC Network revenues without having to commit its football program to the conference.

The new ACC deal contractually guarantees that the ACC GOR will last until 2036, giving ND a solid home for 24 of its 26 sports programs for the next 19 years without any increased commitment in ACC football games or anything else.

It contractually acknowledges that ND does not HAVE TO to join the ACC for football at any time, but IF ND does decide to join a football conference, it is the ACC.

Notre Dame won't join the ACC for football. Only ACC rah rah fanatics think it's a possibility.