(04-27-2017 04:19 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 01:34 PM)BobL Wrote:  http://www.epi.org/publication/charting-...tagnation/

and most of those productivity gains are due to machines not quality of labor.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Mostly from computers and improved communication I suspect.

(04-27-2017 06:18 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I would encourage people wanting to calculate something relative to inflation to use the ShadowStats CPI. It uses the OLD government CPI calculation which is more honest. The current CPI government figures do not include food, energy, and transportation among others. That way Uncle Sam gets to lie to you when paying you back in interest or paying you in inflation adjusted welfare programs.

Just curious, what does the ShadowStats CPI running at these days? I'll be the first to say it feels higher than the 2% or so the government claims.

(04-27-2017 06:18 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  I would encourage people wanting to calculate something relative to inflation to use the ShadowStats CPI. It uses the OLD government CPI calculation which is more honest. The current CPI government figures do not include food, energy, and transportation among others. That way Uncle Sam gets to lie to you when paying you back in interest or paying you in inflation adjusted welfare programs.

well, I did read further....

you're spot on with that post....

it's laughable when I see inflation stats that leave out the tangibles that ALL people require....it was that item (CPI) where me and my ECO profs had a major falling out in various discussions....

hell, I still remember when people were worried about a loaf of bread/milk hitting the $1.00 mark.....lol at that today....

if you're not making 70k a year, you're starving in today's schema.....and there are a shiteload that are not....after the housing market collapse, we're now seeing rent skyrocket as many are living 8+ under a roof or continuing to live with their parents....

the cost of purchasing the necessities to survive is a real thing that has increased more than the official gov't inflation rate would suggest....

that's the real problem that nobody wants to truly address.....

there are so many other things I could point out......however, it would just be a waste of time that the sane people already understand....

(04-27-2017 06:09 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  1,500 becomes 2,000 when you factor in property tax and insurance.

If you borrow 200,000 at 5.000% for 30 years, your monthly payment will be $1,073.64. The payments on a fixed-rate mortgage do not change over time. The loan amortizes over the repayment period, meaning the proportion of interest paid vs. principal repaid changes each month. That becomes close to 1,500 when you add in insurance and taxes.

Quote:My A.C. is electric and runs about 400 in the summer.

And in the fall, then in the winter? Summer is about 3 months, we run our AC all the time in June / July / August (Wife and kids home)... Our electric bills usually run at most 250 a month during that time.

Quote:My heat is gas and runs about 400 in the winter.

And what about from March - October?

Quote:Throw in a 130 car payment

That's fair, I forgot those. We finished paying off the grocery getter three years ago and then saved up for three year to buy the other car cash.

Quote:phone, internet, cable, water, sanitation, and small debt and yeah, 1,000 in bills before food and fuel is a good month.

How much are you dropping on Cable?

Look, I may be particularly blessed but my household income is near 30k less than yours, we're not rolling in it, but we still have money for zoo / museum memberships, , some circus performance classes for the kids, and sports.

On top of that we have been saving for vacations... Usually drive somewhere on the cheap but every few years a real getaway.

We do without a log of stuff... We have not had cable in 10 years, our TV's are nearly that old, and our Minivan is 9 years & showing it's age.

(04-28-2017 12:45 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 06:09 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  1,500 becomes 2,000 when you factor in property tax and insurance.

If you borrow 200,000 at 5.000% for 30 years, your monthly payment will be $1,073.64. The payments on a fixed-rate mortgage do not change over time. The loan amortizes over the repayment period, meaning the proportion of interest paid vs. principal repaid changes each month. That becomes close to 1,500 when you add in insurance and taxes.

Quote:My A.C. is electric and runs about 400 in the summer.

And in the fall, then in the winter? Summer is about 3 months, we run our AC all the time in June / July / August (Wife and kids home)... Our electric bills usually run at most 250 a month during that time.

Quote:My heat is gas and runs about 400 in the winter.

And what about from March - October?

Quote:Throw in a 130 car payment

That's fair, I forgot those. We finished paying off the grocery getter three years ago and then saved up for three year to buy the other car cash.

Quote:phone, internet, cable, water, sanitation, and small debt and yeah, 1,000 in bills before food and fuel is a good month.

How much are you dropping on Cable?

Look, I may be particularly blessed but my household income is near 30k less than yours, we're not rolling in it, but we still have money for zoo / museum memberships, , some circus performance classes for the kids, and sports.

On top of that we have been saving for vacations... Usually drive somewhere on the cheap but every few years a real getaway.

We do without a log of stuff... We have not had cable in 10 years, our TV's are nearly that old, and our Minivan is 9 years & showing it's age.

Truth of the matter is my mortgage is well over 200k and my interest rate isn't 5%. Yes, we made a mistake when we were in our mid-twenties, but then again, we'd only be paying $200 less if renting. It isn't a McMansion, it is 1,800 sqft and built in 1940. It is just more expensive here. I also have more than $400 per week to spend as we make over $100k, our 3rd kid is still in the womb, I overstated child care as we are using a nonlicenced in home provider and both of us have less than 5 miles to commute so gasoline is pretty negligible. Yes, depending on the year we get some months with low energy cost. Our 70 degree February was a blessing this year, but a couple of years ago we were getting below freezing well into April. We get by fine, even go on a family vacation every year along with a few husband/wife excursions, but when big schit happens, it usually means debt. This was more an academic exercise than me me me.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Instead of picking apart EverRespect's example, what are your thoughts on the jist of this thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

(04-28-2017 05:52 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Instead of picking apart EverRespect's example, what are your thoughts on the jist of this thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

IMO, the recession did a lot to hurt the middle class particularly because so much of the middle class' assets were tied up in homes and we all know how that played out. Second, obviously, the lack of jobs hurt as well but maybe that is starting to pick back up.

(04-28-2017 09:06 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 05:52 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Instead of picking apart EverRespect's example, what are your thoughts on the jist of this thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

IMO, the recession did a lot to hurt the middle class particularly because so much of the middle class' assets were tied up in homes and we all know how that played out. Second, obviously, the lack of jobs hurt as well but maybe that is starting to pick back up.

This is the true criminality of what those in congress (mainly democrats) who blocked reforms to Freddie and Fanny did. They basically allowed the one true valuable asset of the middle class to be turned into junk overnight.

(04-28-2017 11:38 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:06 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 05:52 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Instead of picking apart EverRespect's example, what are your thoughts on the jist of this thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

IMO, the recession did a lot to hurt the middle class particularly because so much of the middle class' assets were tied up in homes and we all know how that played out. Second, obviously, the lack of jobs hurt as well but maybe that is starting to pick back up.

This is the true criminality of what those in congress (mainly democrats) who blocked reforms to Freddie and Fanny did. They basically allowed the one true valuable asset of the middle class to be turned into junk overnight.

And for all the crying and moaning about what Wall Strret did, once this happened the crash of 2008 was inevitable. And don't just blame democrats. Republicans could and should have put a stop to it, but they were too busy wasting all their political capital on their damn wars.

(04-28-2017 11:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 11:38 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 09:06 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(04-28-2017 05:52 AM)fsquid Wrote:  Instead of picking apart EverRespect's example, what are your thoughts on the jist of this thread.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using CSNbbs mobile app

IMO, the recession did a lot to hurt the middle class particularly because so much of the middle class' assets were tied up in homes and we all know how that played out. Second, obviously, the lack of jobs hurt as well but maybe that is starting to pick back up.

This is the true criminality of what those in congress (mainly democrats) who blocked reforms to Freddie and Fanny did. They basically allowed the one true valuable asset of the middle class to be turned into junk overnight.

And for all the crying and moaning about what Wall Strret did, once this happened the crash of 2008 was inevitable. And don't just blame democrats. Republicans could and should have put a stop to it, but they were too busy wasting all their political capital on their damn wars.

McCain and 13 other Republican senators went to W. and asked that he reign Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae in. He wouldn't. The Democrats were unanimously opposed to reform, but most of the Republicans didn't want the party to stop either.