Here's the deal ... Basketball is stuck until the commissioner/presidents/ADs figure out a way to use their FB money for basketball.

The reason (my opinion) MAC Football remains I-A is because the P-5 conferences PAY THE MAC (and others) to stay there.

ESPN - PAYS the MAC -- primarily for football. Cry all you want about mid-week November football, 1.2-million watching an empty stadium MAC game is worth more than a 15-20,000 filled stadium without TV. GET OVER IT!!!

Remember, - and this is huge, - unlike Basketball and the NCAA Tournament, the NCAA has nothing to do with the football Bowls and the Championship games much beyond certification. That $$$ goes directly to the P-5 conferences.

Those five leagues effectively have all that cash to themselves - and spread it out accordingly. The bulk of which they keep with the remaining going to the 60 or so teams (3/4 conferences - MAC) not in their ranks. This is generally speaking.

This money actually pays for all those MAC teams (five or six most years) to go to those bogus bowl games where teams actually lose money ... it pays to keep the teams that don't go to bowl games in the pink, instead of in the bloody red.

It will never happen ... but the MAC (Commissioner/Presidents/ADs) could do themselves a big favor by becoming a 'three bowl' league, tops, considering no more than three teams really deserve to go anyway, then push the rest of that $$$ to basketball.

Instead of rewarding basketball teams for playing 15 or so home games every year against Peter, Paul and Mary, reward teams for winning seven or more non-conference road games - with extra for a P-5 win.

This can come from the FB money. It's a start. And would certainly love to read other suggestions. DROPPING DOWN TO I-AA is not an option because the P-5 teams do not give $$$ to I-AA teams.

So what do you say.

After bowl payouts the teams going to bowls might lose $200k-300k each. Personally, at that point after programs have already dropped $6-$7 million already, that seems like a small price to pay for something that is actually of value to the program.

For the sake of argument we'll say sending 3 teams instead of 6 saves $1 million. Lets say 100% of that savings is invested into basketball, that works out to being ~83k per team. The problem with MAC basketball is we have multiple teams who can't even consistently pull 2k fans to games. With larger fan bases, teams would have more money to spend.

(04-26-2017 08:43 AM)cleveland Wrote:  Here's the deal ... Basketball is stuck until the commissioner/presidents/ADs figure out a way to use their FB money for basketball.

The reason (my opinion) MAC Football remains I-A is because the P-5 conferences PAY THE MAC (and others) to stay there.

ESPN - PAYS the MAC -- primarily for football. Cry all you want about mid-week November football, 1.2-million watching an empty stadium MAC game is worth more than a 15-20,000 filled stadium without TV. GET OVER IT!!!

Remember, - and this is huge, - unlike Basketball and the NCAA Tournament, the NCAA has nothing to do with the football Bowls and the Championship games much beyond certification. That $$$ goes directly to the P-5 conferences.

Those five leagues effectively have all that cash to themselves - and spread it out accordingly. The bulk of which they keep with the remaining going to the 60 or so teams (3/4 conferences - MAC) not in their ranks. This is generally speaking.

This money actually pays for all those MAC teams (five or six most years) to go to those bogus bowl games where teams actually lose money ... it pays to keep the teams that don't go to bowl games in the pink, instead of in the bloody red.

It will never happen ... but the MAC (Commissioner/Presidents/ADs) could do themselves a big favor by becoming a 'three bowl' league, tops, considering no more than three teams really deserve to go anyway, then push the rest of that $$$ to basketball.

Instead of rewarding basketball teams for playing 15 or so home games every year against Peter, Paul and Mary, reward teams for winning seven or more non-conference road games - with extra for a P-5 win.

This can come from the FB money. It's a start. And would certainly love to read other suggestions. DROPPING DOWN TO I-AA is not an option because the P-5 teams do not give $$$ to I-AA teams.

So what do you say.

How many of the weeknight games get 1.2 million viewers? Very few, if any. And one buy game at a P5 school pays double or more what the ESPN contract pays for the whole year.

(04-26-2017 10:55 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 08:43 AM)cleveland Wrote:  Here's the deal ... Basketball is stuck until the commissioner/presidents/ADs figure out a way to use their FB money for basketball.

The reason (my opinion) MAC Football remains I-A is because the P-5 conferences PAY THE MAC (and others) to stay there.

ESPN - PAYS the MAC -- primarily for football. Cry all you want about mid-week November football, 1.2-million watching an empty stadium MAC game is worth more than a 15-20,000 filled stadium without TV. GET OVER IT!!!

Remember, - and this is huge, - unlike Basketball and the NCAA Tournament, the NCAA has nothing to do with the football Bowls and the Championship games much beyond certification. That $$$ goes directly to the P-5 conferences.

Those five leagues effectively have all that cash to themselves - and spread it out accordingly. The bulk of which they keep with the remaining going to the 60 or so teams (3/4 conferences - MAC) not in their ranks. This is generally speaking.

This money actually pays for all those MAC teams (five or six most years) to go to those bogus bowl games where teams actually lose money ... it pays to keep the teams that don't go to bowl games in the pink, instead of in the bloody red.

It will never happen ... but the MAC (Commissioner/Presidents/ADs) could do themselves a big favor by becoming a 'three bowl' league, tops, considering no more than three teams really deserve to go anyway, then push the rest of that $$$ to basketball.

Instead of rewarding basketball teams for playing 15 or so home games every year against Peter, Paul and Mary, reward teams for winning seven or more non-conference road games - with extra for a P-5 win.

This can come from the FB money. It's a start. And would certainly love to read other suggestions. DROPPING DOWN TO I-AA is not an option because the P-5 teams do not give $$$ to I-AA teams.

So what do you say.

How many of the weeknight games get 1.2 million viewers? Very few, if any. And one buy game at a P5 school pays double or more what the ESPN contract pays for the whole year.

On the contrary ... I think you would be surprised at how many folks watch. !-million per game may ever be conservative. If it's a good MAC matchup the numbers can be as good as a P-5 Saturday game. ....

Again ... Not saying I like it ... but I do understand it.

(04-26-2017 12:20 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:55 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 08:43 AM)cleveland Wrote:  Here's the deal ... Basketball is stuck until the commissioner/presidents/ADs figure out a way to use their FB money for basketball.

The reason (my opinion) MAC Football remains I-A is because the P-5 conferences PAY THE MAC (and others) to stay there.

ESPN - PAYS the MAC -- primarily for football. Cry all you want about mid-week November football, 1.2-million watching an empty stadium MAC game is worth more than a 15-20,000 filled stadium without TV. GET OVER IT!!!

Remember, - and this is huge, - unlike Basketball and the NCAA Tournament, the NCAA has nothing to do with the football Bowls and the Championship games much beyond certification. That $$$ goes directly to the P-5 conferences.

Those five leagues effectively have all that cash to themselves - and spread it out accordingly. The bulk of which they keep with the remaining going to the 60 or so teams (3/4 conferences - MAC) not in their ranks. This is generally speaking.

This money actually pays for all those MAC teams (five or six most years) to go to those bogus bowl games where teams actually lose money ... it pays to keep the teams that don't go to bowl games in the pink, instead of in the bloody red.

It will never happen ... but the MAC (Commissioner/Presidents/ADs) could do themselves a big favor by becoming a 'three bowl' league, tops, considering no more than three teams really deserve to go anyway, then push the rest of that $$$ to basketball.

Instead of rewarding basketball teams for playing 15 or so home games every year against Peter, Paul and Mary, reward teams for winning seven or more non-conference road games - with extra for a P-5 win.

This can come from the FB money. It's a start. And would certainly love to read other suggestions. DROPPING DOWN TO I-AA is not an option because the P-5 teams do not give $$$ to I-AA teams.

So what do you say.

How many of the weeknight games get 1.2 million viewers? Very few, if any. And one buy game at a P5 school pays double or more what the ESPN contract pays for the whole year.

On the contrary ... I think you would be surprised at how many folks watch. !-million per game may ever be conservative. If it's a good MAC matchup the numbers can be as good as a P-5 Saturday game. ....

Again ... Not saying I like it ... but I do understand it.

The midweek games are probably on in 1.2 million bars across the country alone. How many people are paying attention is anyone's best guess.

(04-26-2017 10:55 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 08:43 AM)cleveland Wrote:  Here's the deal ... Basketball is stuck until the commissioner/presidents/ADs figure out a way to use their FB money for basketball.

The reason (my opinion) MAC Football remains I-A is because the P-5 conferences PAY THE MAC (and others) to stay there.

ESPN - PAYS the MAC -- primarily for football. Cry all you want about mid-week November football, 1.2-million watching an empty stadium MAC game is worth more than a 15-20,000 filled stadium without TV. GET OVER IT!!!

Remember, - and this is huge, - unlike Basketball and the NCAA Tournament, the NCAA has nothing to do with the football Bowls and the Championship games much beyond certification. That $$$ goes directly to the P-5 conferences.

Those five leagues effectively have all that cash to themselves - and spread it out accordingly. The bulk of which they keep with the remaining going to the 60 or so teams (3/4 conferences - MAC) not in their ranks. This is generally speaking.

This money actually pays for all those MAC teams (five or six most years) to go to those bogus bowl games where teams actually lose money ... it pays to keep the teams that don't go to bowl games in the pink, instead of in the bloody red.

It will never happen ... but the MAC (Commissioner/Presidents/ADs) could do themselves a big favor by becoming a 'three bowl' league, tops, considering no more than three teams really deserve to go anyway, then push the rest of that $$$ to basketball.

Instead of rewarding basketball teams for playing 15 or so home games every year against Peter, Paul and Mary, reward teams for winning seven or more non-conference road games - with extra for a P-5 win.

This can come from the FB money. It's a start. And would certainly love to read other suggestions. DROPPING DOWN TO I-AA is not an option because the P-5 teams do not give $$$ to I-AA teams.

So what do you say.

How many of the weeknight games get 1.2 million viewers? Very few, if any. And one buy game at a P5 school pays double or more what the ESPN contract pays for the whole year.

this

The $$$ side of the ESPN deal is poorly understood. not only are MAC schools turning over half their schedule to ESPN-Disney and losing much of their home fan bases, game day revenue, local booster support, etc... but they are also now required to produce digital content for ESPN streaming and handle those costs. The amount going to each school is really not that much and even when a MAC team like NIU or WMU gets a big bowl the trickle down finances aren't that great. ESPN-Disney and the sports networks have oversatured the college (and pro) tv landscape. Viewership is declining, ad rates are going down, ESPN is laying people off and fan interest in general is suffering as our local college football has become more of a made for tv show than a community event. The football emphasis hurt basketball and schools have been dropping non-revenue sports like flies so the money isn't really there. It has been a bad long term move both from the financial, university athletics and community support standpoint.

(04-26-2017 02:00 PM)pono Wrote:  The amount going to each school is really not that much and even when a MAC team like NIU or WMU gets a big bowl the trickle down finances aren't that great.

Telling the MAC to collectively, as a conference, turn away multiple chances at their biggest profile exposure of the year because it is not financially lucrative is missing the point.

If it was viewed as a commercial money making venture, none of the MAC schools would be in DivI in the first place ... the reason they subsidize it is as a marketing spend.

(04-26-2017 01:58 PM)NickleCity Wrote:  The midweek games are probably on in 1.2 million bars across the country alone. How many people are paying attention is anyone's best guess.

Hard to quantify but I recall arriving in Vegas a few years back wearing a Rocket polo when the hotel valet stopped me to comment on the previous week's Toledo vs BG football game. It was at that moment I started believing that people outside Norhtwest Ohio actually tune into these week night games.

(04-27-2017 12:00 PM)San Giuseppe Jato Rocket Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 01:58 PM)NickleCity Wrote:  The midweek games are probably on in 1.2 million bars across the country alone. How many people are paying attention is anyone's best guess.

Hard to quantify but I recall arriving in Vegas a few years back wearing a Rocket polo when the hotel valet stopped me to comment on the previous week's Toledo vs BG football game. It was at that moment I started believing that people outside Norhtwest Ohio actually tune into these week night games.

There have been a number of times that morning radio sports shows here in S Fl have talked about a MACTION game from the night before.

But the question then becomes how many of those people ship their kids from Florida or Las Vegas to Athens, Bowling Green, or Akron?

I don't know the answers to these questions, but that is what needs to be answered.

Isn't a ratings point a million viewers? Most of the MACtion games are like .4, .5, .6 or less in the ratings. So not that many people watching.

Maybe ESPN should hire some former MAC players as their announcers. They'd probably work a little cheaper, do a better job, and not be total douchebags in the process.

the real promblem with this conf, 9 schools are in 2 states, SWC did not make it for same reason
contract, expand, contract then expand, split [7 FB-5 BB] or tread water

(04-27-2017 08:05 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Isn't a ratings point a million viewers?

Close to ... it's 1% of the TV audience, and the TV audience is in the rough neighborhood of 100m.

Quote: Most of the MACtion games are like .4, .5, .6 or less in the ratings. So not that many people watching.

400,000 - 600,000 is a lot more than once were watching MAC games on TV. And you have to have the games on to be able to score the bigger ones, when a game attracts broader interest.

Quote: Maybe ESPN should hire some former MAC players as their announcers. They'd probably work a little cheaper, do a better job, and not be total douchebags in the process.

Maybe later ... right now they are firing more than hiring.

(04-27-2017 09:52 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  the real promblem with this conf, 9 schools are in 2 states, SWC did not make it for same reason
contract, expand, contract then expand, split [7 FB-5 BB] or tread water

SWC held together for 81 years. Texas is the size of the entire great lakes region. Most were concentrated in the Dallas-Houston triangle.

What did them in was several of the schools were not spending in a way that was competitive with the power leagues.

The MAC has stepped up spending to pull closer to its G5 peers. Picked up a TV deal while CUSA lost theirs.

SWC was never willing to play midweek.

when TV came into play, SWC disbanded
Mass to Dakota's would work
core of 7 would work with SW [C-USA WEST]

(04-28-2017 09:43 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  when TV came into play, SWC disbanded
Mass to Dakota's would work
core of 7 would work with SW [C-USA WEST]

The SWC disbanded under completely different reasons and you know that

i always tought b-8 & SWC merged for tv markets
there were neguations involved
what i'm missing

last 10 yrs mac has had 30 schools with winng records in BB
mac has to figure out how to make money in CIT
embrace tourn, make mulipy runs, MAC invitanual

(04-27-2017 04:40 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 02:00 PM)pono Wrote:  The amount going to each school is really not that much and even when a MAC team like NIU or WMU gets a big bowl the trickle down finances aren't that great.

Telling the MAC to collectively, as a conference, turn away multiple chances at their biggest profile exposure of the year because it is not financially lucrative is missing the point.

If it was viewed as a commercial money making venture, none of the MAC schools would be in DivI in the first place ... the reason they subsidize it is as a marketing spend.

I'm not implying that the MAC "turn away" from big bowl games or higher profile reg season tv games. I'm saying that the money from these things in the context of university and even athletic department budgets is minor. Some posters seem to think MAC schools are getting paid in these deals. They really aren't. It's like the Austin Powers movie scene where Dr Evil comes out of a 30 year hiatus and threatens to destroy the world if he isn't paid "one million dollars". Whatever trickles down to Mac schools from the occasional big bowl game or the tv contracts isn't much in today's dollars. If you are saying the exposure of national tv is worth the loss of saturday football community traditions, that's another argument. I would argue it isn't since most MAC schools have struggled to maintain enrollment numbers in the era of national tv exposure.

(04-29-2017 12:43 AM)pono Wrote:  If you are saying the exposure of national tv is worth the loss of saturday football community traditions, that's another argument. I would argue it isn't since most MAC schools have struggled to maintain enrollment numbers in the era of national tv exposure.

Great Lakes demographics are the reason that most MAC schools have struggled with enrolments ... it doesn't help that so much of the MAC is in Ohio, and the strongest growing region in Ohio is Central Ohio, without any MAC schools actually inside of the area.

But in any event, the struggle is part of the reason why they are willing to do the marketing spend.

~~~~~~~~~~~

(04-28-2017 10:19 AM)templefootballfan Wrote:  i always tought b-8 & SWC merged for tv markets
there were neguations involved
what i'm missing

1/2 of the SWC and all of the Big 8 join the Big12 ... how could that possibly be a merger? Why would over half of the SWC Presidents vote to approve a merger that left them out? (Remember that under conference bylaws, a fundamental change like that requires a supermajority of 67%-75%, so 5/7 to 6/7 votes needed for a merger that would leave three on the sidelines.

After Arkansas left and the TV exposure offered by the CFA was going away, the remainder of the SWC wanted to merge, but the Big 8 didn't want a merger, they only wanted the strongest schools, Texas & Texas A&M, and not too much baggage along with them. Texas insisted that Texas Tech get a ticket. Then Baylor got the last ticket out of Dodge, because of the strategically placed Baylor grads at the time in Texas politics.