On #Inside the NBA, Charles Barkley says that Mike Conley has earned all of the money that he is being paid.

Says that Conley is one the most underrated players in the last ten years.

here you go: you're welcome.

https://twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/8563...32/video/1

We all love Conley. But when someone says he's underrated, I would want to know exactly what he/she means by that. I think most bball fans respect his game and know how good he is. But at the same time, he's not better than Kyrie, CP3, Steph, Russ, Harden or Dame Lillard. I'm sure many would argue that he's not better than Isaiah Thomas or John (to the Window to the) Wall, either. He's a top 10 PG for sure. But he's not in the top 5.

(04-24-2017 12:11 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  We all love Conley. But when someone says he's underrated, I would want to know exactly what he/she means by that. I think most bball fans respect his game and know how good he is. But at the same time, he's not better than Kyrie, CP3, Steph, Russ, Harden or Dame Lillard. I'm sure many would argue that he's not better than Isaiah Thomas or John (to the Window to the) Wall, either. He's a top 10 PG for sure. But he's not in the top 5.

Dame Lillard is debatable...he's a terrible defender and seems awesome cuz of his offense only.

(04-24-2017 12:31 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 12:11 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  We all love Conley. But when someone says he's underrated, I would want to know exactly what he/she means by that. I think most bball fans respect his game and know how good he is. But at the same time, he's not better than Kyrie, CP3, Steph, Russ, Harden or Dame Lillard. I'm sure many would argue that he's not better than Isaiah Thomas or John (to the Window to the) Wall, either. He's a top 10 PG for sure. But he's not in the top 5.

Dame Lillard is debatable...he's a terrible defender and seems awesome cuz of his offense only.

A case can definitely be made for Conley in the 6-7 range in terms of best PGs. You can't put him in the top 5 though.

Unfortunately for Conley, most of those guys are in the West. That's what's prevented him from being an All Star.

(04-24-2017 12:35 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 12:31 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 12:11 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  We all love Conley. But when someone says he's underrated, I would want to know exactly what he/she means by that. I think most bball fans respect his game and know how good he is. But at the same time, he's not better than Kyrie, CP3, Steph, Russ, Harden or Dame Lillard. I'm sure many would argue that he's not better than Isaiah Thomas or John (to the Window to the) Wall, either. He's a top 10 PG for sure. But he's not in the top 5.

Dame Lillard is debatable...he's a terrible defender and seems awesome cuz of his offense only.

A case can definitely be made for Conley in the 6-7 range in terms of best PGs. You can't put him in the top 5 though.

Unfortunately for Conley, most of those guys are in the West. That's what's prevented him from being an All Star.

True

He won't get picked over Westbrook, Curry, Harden or CP3 (unless he has an injury)

As for the East...IMO Kyrie might be the only better PG than Mike

Just two years ago, when we demolished Portland 4-1, if you had asked anyone at the end of that series who the better PG was, they would have taken Mike for sure.

And Kyrie is a worse defender than Dame. Kyrie was on the bench while the Cavs erased the 25 point 2nd half deficit against Indiana a few days ago. Can one imagine Mike being on the bench in a similar circumstance for the Grizz?

Mike is never going to put up the regular season numbers guys like Dame or Kyrie do. We initiate a lot of the offense through Marc, and except for ZBo don't run a lot of ISO.
But today, if Mike is healthy, in a playoff series, I would take him over Dame or Kyrie.

(04-24-2017 12:42 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Just two years ago, when we demolished Portland 4-1, if you had asked anyone at the end of that series who the better PG was, they would have taken Mike for sure.

And Kyrie is a worse defender than Dame. Kyrie was on the bench while the Cavs erased the 25 point 2nd half deficit against Indiana a few days ago. Can one imagine Mike being on the bench in a similar circumstance for the Grizz?

Mike is never going to put up the regular season numbers guys like Dame or Kyrie do. We initiate a lot of the offense through Marc, and except for ZBo don't run a lot of ISO.
But today, if Mike is healthy, in a playoff series, I would take him over Dame or Kyrie.

And you would be the only person on the planet who is not a Grizzlies fan who would say that. Not trying to argue or belittle your opinion, but that is the truth. Saying you'd take Conley over Kyrie is crazy talk.

(04-24-2017 12:49 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 12:42 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Just two years ago, when we demolished Portland 4-1, if you had asked anyone at the end of that series who the better PG was, they would have taken Mike for sure.

And Kyrie is a worse defender than Dame. Kyrie was on the bench while the Cavs erased the 25 point 2nd half deficit against Indiana a few days ago. Can one imagine Mike being on the bench in a similar circumstance for the Grizz?

Mike is never going to put up the regular season numbers guys like Dame or Kyrie do. We initiate a lot of the offense through Marc, and except for ZBo don't run a lot of ISO.
But today, if Mike is healthy, in a playoff series, I would take him over Dame or Kyrie.

And you would be the only person on the planet who is not a Grizzlies fan who would say that. Not trying to argue or belittle your opinion, but that is the truth. Saying you'd take Conley over Kyrie is crazy talk.

Not true

John and Jason just had a national NBA writer on the show who said the same thing.

IMO it's debatable. We are enamored with Kyrie's ball handling skills and basically his street ball mentality but we tend to ignore other facets of his game. Playing with King James hides his deficiencies.

(04-24-2017 12:49 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 12:42 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Just two years ago, when we demolished Portland 4-1, if you had asked anyone at the end of that series who the better PG was, they would have taken Mike for sure.

And Kyrie is a worse defender than Dame. Kyrie was on the bench while the Cavs erased the 25 point 2nd half deficit against Indiana a few days ago. Can one imagine Mike being on the bench in a similar circumstance for the Grizz?

Mike is never going to put up the regular season numbers guys like Dame or Kyrie do. We initiate a lot of the offense through Marc, and except for ZBo don't run a lot of ISO.
But today, if Mike is healthy, in a playoff series, I would take him over Dame or Kyrie.

And you would be the only person on the planet who is not a Grizzlies fan who would say that. Not trying to argue or belittle your opinion, but that is the truth. Saying you'd take Conley over Kyrie is crazy talk.

Not really Tinmen. If you listen to a lot of the NBA podcast guys like Woj or Zach Lowe or Mike Duncan or even Bill Simmons, Kyrie is not held in near as a high esteem by them as the fans.

Kyrie is a splashy ISO scorer, so he gets the highlight plays, but he's pretty average in everything else he does. And he's a minus defender, really bad. When Lebron takes a rest day, or is off the court and Kryie's is playing, the Cavs net number tanks. Which is why Lebron still has to play 40 MPG in the playoffs. Lebron makes a lot of guys look better than they are. If Lebron were to ever miss a month of the season, IMO we would see that Love and Kyrie are not all that.

I would take John Wall all day over Kyrie. As well as the normal West top 4 - Curry, Westbrook, Harden and CP3. I'd have Conley 6th.

(04-24-2017 01:01 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 12:49 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 12:42 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Just two years ago, when we demolished Portland 4-1, if you had asked anyone at the end of that series who the better PG was, they would have taken Mike for sure.

And Kyrie is a worse defender than Dame. Kyrie was on the bench while the Cavs erased the 25 point 2nd half deficit against Indiana a few days ago. Can one imagine Mike being on the bench in a similar circumstance for the Grizz?

Mike is never going to put up the regular season numbers guys like Dame or Kyrie do. We initiate a lot of the offense through Marc, and except for ZBo don't run a lot of ISO.
But today, if Mike is healthy, in a playoff series, I would take him over Dame or Kyrie.

And you would be the only person on the planet who is not a Grizzlies fan who would say that. Not trying to argue or belittle your opinion, but that is the truth. Saying you'd take Conley over Kyrie is crazy talk.

Not really Tinmen. If you listen to a lot of the NBA podcast guys like Woj or Zach Lowe or Mike Duncan or even Bill Simmons, Kyrie is not held in near as a high esteem by them as the fans.

Kyrie is a splashy ISO scorer, so he gets the highlight plays, but he's pretty average in everything else he does. And he's a minus defender, really bad. When Lebron takes a rest day, or is off the court and Kryie's is playing, the Cavs net number tanks. Which is why Lebron still has to play 40 MPG in the playoffs. Lebron makes a lot of guys look better than they are. If Lebron were to ever miss a month of the season, IMO we would see that Love and Kyrie are not all that.

I would take John Wall all day over Kyrie. As well as the normal West top 4 - Curry, Westbrook, Harden and CP3. I'd have Conley 6th.

Agree to disagree on Conley vs. Kyrie. Regardless, point remains that Conley is not a top 5 PG and is a 0 time all star.

I like Conley. Everyone does. But he's not elite. I define elite is a top 5 guy at your position. He's close, just not quite there.

I would love to have Mike in a series against the Cavs with both he and Kyrie healthy.

I just looked at top 6, and of the top 6 this past year, Kyrie has the lowest PER and the worst Defensive Efficiency Rating by far. The top five range from 104 to 108, and Kyrie's is 112. Mike would blow by Kyrie at will.

Conley has turned out way better than people originally thought based upon his first few years. All Star or not, I'm glad to see the progression he has made. He was a very good college basketball player and has developed into a solid pro as well.

(04-24-2017 01:07 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 01:01 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 12:49 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 12:42 PM)Tigx Wrote:  Just two years ago, when we demolished Portland 4-1, if you had asked anyone at the end of that series who the better PG was, they would have taken Mike for sure.

And Kyrie is a worse defender than Dame. Kyrie was on the bench while the Cavs erased the 25 point 2nd half deficit against Indiana a few days ago. Can one imagine Mike being on the bench in a similar circumstance for the Grizz?

Mike is never going to put up the regular season numbers guys like Dame or Kyrie do. We initiate a lot of the offense through Marc, and except for ZBo don't run a lot of ISO.
But today, if Mike is healthy, in a playoff series, I would take him over Dame or Kyrie.

And you would be the only person on the planet who is not a Grizzlies fan who would say that. Not trying to argue or belittle your opinion, but that is the truth. Saying you'd take Conley over Kyrie is crazy talk.

Not really Tinmen. If you listen to a lot of the NBA podcast guys like Woj or Zach Lowe or Mike Duncan or even Bill Simmons, Kyrie is not held in near as a high esteem by them as the fans.

Kyrie is a splashy ISO scorer, so he gets the highlight plays, but he's pretty average in everything else he does. And he's a minus defender, really bad. When Lebron takes a rest day, or is off the court and Kryie's is playing, the Cavs net number tanks. Which is why Lebron still has to play 40 MPG in the playoffs. Lebron makes a lot of guys look better than they are. If Lebron were to ever miss a month of the season, IMO we would see that Love and Kyrie are not all that.

I would take John Wall all day over Kyrie. As well as the normal West top 4 - Curry, Westbrook, Harden and CP3. I'd have Conley 6th.

Agree to disagree on Conley vs. Kyrie. Regardless, point remains that Conley is not a top 5 PG and is a 0 time all star.

I like Conley. Everyone does. But he's not elite. I define elite is a top 5 guy at your position. He's close, just not quite there.

Again...depends on the conference. Lowery has been a 2 time all star and he's not elite either. Very good but not elite.

# of All Star games is not a big ranking criteria for me, but if it is for others, that's OK.

Not really Mike's fault that he's in a conference with Curry, Westbrook, Harden and CP3. If Memphis was in the East, he'd be the same player and have multiple All Star berths.

(04-24-2017 01:24 PM)Tigx Wrote:  # of All Star games is not a big ranking criteria for me, but if it is for others, that's OK.

Not really Mike's fault that he's in a conference with Curry, Westbrook, Harden and CP3. If Memphis was in the East, he'd be the same player and have multiple All Star berths.

Agree

(04-24-2017 01:16 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Conley has turned out way better than people originally thought based upon his first few years. All Star or not, I'm glad to see the progression he has made. He was a very good college basketball player and has developed into a solid pro as well.

Yes, 100%. There was a time early in his NBA career when lots of people were saying you can't win with him at PG. He proved that argument wrong and then some.

I'd say he's more than a solid pro. He's really, really good. Maybe not elite, but he's just a notch below that level.

(04-24-2017 11:08 AM)mempho_to_diego Wrote:  here you go: you're welcome.

https://twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/8563...32/video/1

My favorite comment is the moron who says Mike isn't even top 7 in the Western Conference.

(04-24-2017 01:52 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  

(04-24-2017 01:16 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  Conley has turned out way better than people originally thought based upon his first few years. All Star or not, I'm glad to see the progression he has made. He was a very good college basketball player and has developed into a solid pro as well.

Yes, 100%. There was a time early in his NBA career when lots of people were saying you can't win with him at PG. He proved that argument wrong and then some.

I'd say he's more than a solid pro. He's really, really good. Maybe not elite, but he's just a notch below that level.

And in the East, that would usually be enough to be an All-Star. Heck, even Jrue Holiday was an all-star in the East. Getting that recognition changes the perception of a player.

People forget Kyrie had 3 full years in Cleveland before Lebron returned. 21 wins, 24 wins, and 33 wins. In the very weak Eastern conference.

Not fair to pin that totally on Kyrie. But his reputation has benefited greatly from playing with Lebron.