(04-26-2017 11:41 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  ...

Pastner's other 4 classes were 38, 49, 67, and 120. Those are the 4 classes that I said are "comparable" to this year's 50-something class. Not sure what there is to debate about that, unless you want to argue that t #38 class is much better than #59. Of course, the 120 is not really comparable either, so.
...

Except those classes mostly aren't comparable. This class is ranked 59 based on 7 commitments. The only classes ranked worse than that are 2009 (Pastner's first year and the rank doesn't reflect Elliot Williams a 5 star, top 20 guy out of HS)), 2011 (67) (a two person class that included a 5 star recruit ranked top 10 in his class), and the next closest in rank is 2012 (49) (a four person class that had a top 50 4 star, and a three star recruit ranked similarly to our highest commit for 2017, who never broke 2 pts a game while he was here).

The closest to comparable was [edit 2015 2014], a class that was made up of 3 jucos and Dom Mcgee, so made up of just 4 guys, and still ranked 21 spots ahead of what we've got now.

The idea that a class where the highest ranked guy doesn't crack the top 150 (according to 247) is in any way comparable to one that includes a top 10 guy is facially ludicrous. This recruiting is indefensible at the University of Memphis. A class made up of this many guys should not be struggling to crack the top 50 at Memphis (the lowest comparably sized class under Pastner was the Lawson class at 10). Especially not when we're paying the coach a top 15 type salary. The fact that it was basically an own goal by the staff that we're having to recruit this many guys in the first place is just insult added to injury.

I'll support these guys when they suit up next year, just like I've been supporting Memphis guys for 35 years or more, but the fact of the matter is that these recruits are being put into an almost impossible position by Tubby. The chances that he'll ever coach them up (much less next year) into a team that can challenge for an AAC championship, or do more than slip in as a 10 or 11 seed in the tournament as 21-9 middle of the road AAC team are pretty small. The chances are better that things will be worse than that, and that when these guys are juniors (or maybe even sophomores) they'll be under a new coach looking to recruit better players to play in front of them.

(04-26-2017 03:41 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:41 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  ...

Pastner's other 4 classes were 38, 49, 67, and 120. Those are the 4 classes that I said are "comparable" to this year's 50-something class. Not sure what there is to debate about that, unless you want to argue that t #38 class is much better than #59. Of course, the 120 is not really comparable either, so.
...

Except those classes mostly aren't comparable. This class is ranked 59 based on 7 commitments. The only classes ranked worse than that are 2009 (Pastner's first year and the rank doesn't reflect Elliot Williams), 2011 (67) (a two person class that included a 5 star recruit ranked top 10 in his class), and the next closest in rank is 2012 (49) (a four person class that had a top 50 4 star, and a three star recruit ranked similarly to our highest commit for 2017, who never broke 2 pts a game while he was here).

The closest to comparable was 2015, a class that was made up of 3 jucos and Dom Mcgee, so made up of just 4 guys, and still ranked 21 spots ahead of what we've got now.

The idea that a class where the highest ranked guy doesn't crack the top 150 (according to 247) is in any way comparable to one that includes a top 10 guy is facially ludicrous. This recruiting is indefensible at the University of Memphis. A class made up of this many guys should not be struggling to crack the top 50 at Memphis (the lowest comparably sized class under Pastner was the Lawson class at 10). Especially not when we're paying the coach a top 15 type salary. The fact that it was basically an own goal by the staff that we're having to recruit this many guys in the first place is just insult added to injury.

I'll support these guys when they suit up next year, just like I've been supporting Memphis guys for 35 years or more, but the fact of the matter is that these recruits are being put into an almost impossible position by Tubby. The chances that he'll coach them up into a team that can challenge for an AAC championship, or do more than slip in as a 10 or 11 seed in the tournament as 21-9 middle of the road AAC team are pretty small. The chances are better that things will be worse than that, and that when these guys are juniors (or maybe even sophomores) they'll be under a new coach looking to recruit better players to play in front of them.

Because of this, Tubby has us, those who like to analyze our new recruits, under his thumb. Who wants to put a damper on a kid's only chance he probably never truly believed would happen...

(04-26-2017 03:41 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:41 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  ...

Pastner's other 4 classes were 38, 49, 67, and 120. Those are the 4 classes that I said are "comparable" to this year's 50-something class. Not sure what there is to debate about that, unless you want to argue that t #38 class is much better than #59. Of course, the 120 is not really comparable either, so.
...

Except those classes mostly aren't comparable. This class is ranked 59 based on 7 commitments. The only classes ranked worse than that are 2009 (Pastner's first year and the rank doesn't reflect Elliot Williams a 5 star, top 20 guy out of HS)), 2011 (67) (a two person class that included a 5 star recruit ranked top 10 in his class), and the next closest in rank is 2012 (49) (a four person class that had a top 50 4 star, and a three star recruit ranked similarly to our highest commit for 2017, who never broke 2 pts a game while he was here).

The closest to comparable was 2015, a class that was made up of 3 jucos and Dom Mcgee, so made up of just 4 guys, and still ranked 21 spots ahead of what we've got now.

The idea that a class where the highest ranked guy doesn't crack the top 150 (according to 247) is in any way comparable to one that includes a top 10 guy is facially ludicrous. This recruiting is indefensible at the University of Memphis. A class made up of this many guys should not be struggling to crack the top 50 at Memphis (the lowest comparably sized class under Pastner was the Lawson class at 10). Especially not when we're paying the coach a top 15 type salary. The fact that it was basically an own goal by the staff that we're having to recruit this many guys in the first place is just insult added to injury.

I'll support these guys when they suit up next year, just like I've been supporting Memphis guys for 35 years or more, but the fact of the matter is that these recruits are being put into an almost impossible position by Tubby. The chances that he'll ever coach them up (much less next year) into a team that can challenge for an AAC championship, or do more than slip in as a 10 or 11 seed in the tournament as 21-9 middle of the road AAC team are pretty small. The chances are better that things will be worse than that, and that when these guys are juniors (or maybe even sophomores) they'll be under a new coach looking to recruit better players to play in front of them.

Uhh, they aren't going to challenge for an AAC Championship next year. They will not make the NCAA tournament next year. NIT should be the goal, win a few games. It took your wet dream several years to do anything in the NCAA tournament. And he was doing God knows what to get talent.

I'm trying figure out what drugs you are using, I have it down to meth and crack. What are your dental bills like? That will help.

(04-26-2017 02:03 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:54 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:08 AM)SigEpMike Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:52 AM)FUT Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:35 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  That's just a false statement. His only complete class he's had at Memphis was better than his first class at either Minny or TTU. His average of his first 2 classes here will be better than his average for his tenure at both other schools.

You may not like the way he's recruiting, but his class is shaping up this year. Will be comparable to what Pastner had here for 4 of his 7 years here. Take out the daddy factor, and it's 4 of Pastner's 6 years here.

When I see posts like this I wish Saluki was here to throw actual numbers out.

I am not taking the time to do the research but I would be willing to make a small wager the claims made in the above post are not factual. Josh had monster classes and you cannot throw out the Lawsons to fit your agenda. There are very few coaches that would not have done the Lawson deal. We might have hired the only one actually.

Quick, without looking who is the last player Tubby coached who was drafted or plays in the NBA?

I don't have time to go into much detail, but here are the 24/7 team rankings for each year:

2009 - #120, Average Rating .8620 (Will Coleman and DJ Stephens), Elliott Williams transfer not included
2010 - #3, Average Rating .9132 (A Barton, W Barton, Joe, Jelan Kendrick, Tarik Black, Crawford, Tsafack, Trey Draper)
2011 - #67, Average Rating .9036 (Adonis Thomas, Stan Simpson)
2012 - #49, Average Rating .8645 (Shaq, Damien Woodson, Anthony Cole)
2013 - #3, Average Rating .9323 (Nichols, Iverson, Nick King, Woodson, Pookie, Markel, Jake McDowell)
2014 - #38, Average Rating .8893 (Burrell, Woodson)
2015 - #10, Average Rating .8932 (Dedric, KJ, Nick Marshall, Broddie, Craig Randall, Dante Scott, Jeremiah Martin)
2016 - #92, Average Rating .8012 (Azab)
2017 - #59, Average Rating .8000 (Johnson, Nickelberry, Enoh, Davenport, Thornton, Brewton - Parks isn't showing with a signed LOI)

So, based on National Ranking, Tubby's current class is better than only two of Pastner's classes (and similar to one more). Based on Average Rating, it's lower than all of Pastner's classes.

It's similar to 4 classes. 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014.

Remember, 2014 would of been ranked in the 50s without Dominic MaGee. Hell, if we didn't hire some player's Dad 2015 would have looked like this class. If you look at the formula's behind the rankings, there's little difference between 45-60 in the rankings. I'll write code to plot this stuff in R once I get done with my current semester.

Look. I think this media circus has doom Tubby to getting fired either this year or next. But if a new guy comes in here, there's no guarantee he's going to light it up. We are going to miss a couple locals kids. Josh did. Tubby did. Next guy will.

Recruiting rankings aren't as valuable in Basketball as football. There's too much variance since the class sizes are so much smaller. One player can change your class from the 40s to 60s. And if the evaluation is wrong on one player that ranking could be meaningless.

I'm not exactly happy with this first class, but it's not a disaster. We won't be ran off in court in the AAC.

Also. I've told you the averages are statistically meaningless. The JUCO players aren't ranked and default to a rating of 70. They do that because it's easy, but it ruins the metric. All the JUCOs except maybe Parks will be above 80 if they get rated if you sample from past JUCO rankings. For example Avery Woodson was an 83, and he was in the 40s for JUCO rankings.

Quote:It's similar to 4 classes. 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014.

This is a hugely flawed argument mostly because the classes before and after it were filled with 4 and 5 star recruits and 4 and 5 star players on the existing roster.

Quote:Remember, 2014 would of been ranked in the 50s without Dominic MaGee. Hell, if we didn't hire some player's Dad 2015 would have looked like this class. If you look at the formula's behind the rankings, there's little difference between 45-60 in the rankings.

I count a lot of IFS in here. There was no guarantee that Magee was going to be a good player and he was ranked 32 spots higher than Tubby's highest recruit. Also, when the 2014 class was being recruited, 5 star Nichols, and 4 star Iverson, Pookie, King, Markel and Shaq were still on the roster.

Quote:Also. I've told you the averages are statistically meaningless.

The rankings aren't meaningless at all. If you pull in highly ranked players you have a much better chance at being successful than you do if you don't get them. That is a fact.

Quote:The JUCO players aren't ranked and default to a rating of 70. They do that because it's easy, but it ruins the metric. All the JUCOs except maybe Parks will be above 80 if they get rated if you sample from past JUCO rankings. For example Avery Woodson was an 83, and he was in the 40s for JUCO rankings

And a bunch of those Jucos were ranked higher than our present Jucos. Will Coleman and Stan Simpson were ranked very high.

The bottom line is that we don't have an above average NCAA point guard or power forward or center on the roster right now. If you depend on a freshman to help you he better be ranked in the top 25 or at the very least in the top 50, and right now there is nobody on the radar.

#18 Joe Jackson, #23 DWash, #53 Kemp, #95 Pookie all struggled out of the gate. How in the world can anyone expect Lomax at #132 to come in and do the job in 2019?

Maybe Tubby can pull it off and I hope he does, but history and common sense would predict that he doesn't.

Poop
Poop
Poop, sorry, I mean
Hoop
Hoop
Hoop

I agree that we need better talent to do anything in the tournament. We cannot recruit at a high level until we demonstrate the ability to consistently make the tournament. The goal should be now to demonstrate that ability in future years, or at least show a chance. Tubby did not inherit the same momentum that Pastner did. Cal had to hire daddies to get it going, Pastner had to hire daddies to slow the collapse.

Or we can pay players.

(04-26-2017 04:10 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 02:03 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:54 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:08 AM)SigEpMike Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:52 AM)FUT Wrote:  When I see posts like this I wish Saluki was here to throw actual numbers out.

I am not taking the time to do the research but I would be willing to make a small wager the claims made in the above post are not factual. Josh had monster classes and you cannot throw out the Lawsons to fit your agenda. There are very few coaches that would not have done the Lawson deal. We might have hired the only one actually.

Quick, without looking who is the last player Tubby coached who was drafted or plays in the NBA?

I don't have time to go into much detail, but here are the 24/7 team rankings for each year:

2009 - #120, Average Rating .8620 (Will Coleman and DJ Stephens), Elliott Williams transfer not included
2010 - #3, Average Rating .9132 (A Barton, W Barton, Joe, Jelan Kendrick, Tarik Black, Crawford, Tsafack, Trey Draper)
2011 - #67, Average Rating .9036 (Adonis Thomas, Stan Simpson)
2012 - #49, Average Rating .8645 (Shaq, Damien Woodson, Anthony Cole)
2013 - #3, Average Rating .9323 (Nichols, Iverson, Nick King, Woodson, Pookie, Markel, Jake McDowell)
2014 - #38, Average Rating .8893 (Burrell, Woodson)
2015 - #10, Average Rating .8932 (Dedric, KJ, Nick Marshall, Broddie, Craig Randall, Dante Scott, Jeremiah Martin)
2016 - #92, Average Rating .8012 (Azab)
2017 - #59, Average Rating .8000 (Johnson, Nickelberry, Enoh, Davenport, Thornton, Brewton - Parks isn't showing with a signed LOI)

So, based on National Ranking, Tubby's current class is better than only two of Pastner's classes (and similar to one more). Based on Average Rating, it's lower than all of Pastner's classes.

It's similar to 4 classes. 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014.

Remember, 2014 would of been ranked in the 50s without Dominic MaGee. Hell, if we didn't hire some player's Dad 2015 would have looked like this class. If you look at the formula's behind the rankings, there's little difference between 45-60 in the rankings. I'll write code to plot this stuff in R once I get done with my current semester.

Look. I think this media circus has doom Tubby to getting fired either this year or next. But if a new guy comes in here, there's no guarantee he's going to light it up. We are going to miss a couple locals kids. Josh did. Tubby did. Next guy will.

Recruiting rankings aren't as valuable in Basketball as football. There's too much variance since the class sizes are so much smaller. One player can change your class from the 40s to 60s. And if the evaluation is wrong on one player that ranking could be meaningless.

I'm not exactly happy with this first class, but it's not a disaster. We won't be ran off in court in the AAC.

Also. I've told you the averages are statistically meaningless. The JUCO players aren't ranked and default to a rating of 70. They do that because it's easy, but it ruins the metric. All the JUCOs except maybe Parks will be above 80 if they get rated if you sample from past JUCO rankings. For example Avery Woodson was an 83, and he was in the 40s for JUCO rankings.

Quote:It's similar to 4 classes. 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014.

This is a hugely flawed argument mostly because the classes before and after it were filled with 4 and 5 star recruits and 4 and 5 star players on the existing roster.

Quote:Remember, 2014 would of been ranked in the 50s without Dominic MaGee. Hell, if we didn't hire some player's Dad 2015 would have looked like this class. If you look at the formula's behind the rankings, there's little difference between 45-60 in the rankings.

I count a lot of IFS in here. There was no guarantee that Magee was going to be a good player and he was ranked 32 spots higher than Tubby's highest recruit. Also, when the 2014 class was being recruited, 5 star Nichols, and 4 star Iverson, Pookie, King, Markel and Shaq were still on the roster.

Quote:Also. I've told you the averages are statistically meaningless.

The rankings aren't meaningless at all. If you pull in highly ranked players you have a much better chance at being successful than you do if you don't get them. That is a fact.

Quote:The JUCO players aren't ranked and default to a rating of 70. They do that because it's easy, but it ruins the metric. All the JUCOs except maybe Parks will be above 80 if they get rated if you sample from past JUCO rankings. For example Avery Woodson was an 83, and he was in the 40s for JUCO rankings

And a bunch of those Jucos were ranked higher than our present Jucos. Will Coleman and Stan Simpson were ranked very high.

The bottom line is that we don't have an above average NCAA point guard or power forward or center on the roster right now. If you depend on a freshman to help you he better be ranked in the top 25 or at the very least in the top 50, and right now there is nobody on the radar.

#18 Joe Jackson, #23 DWash, #53 Kemp, #95 Pookie all struggled out of the gate. How in the world can anyone expect Lomax at #132 to come in and do the job in 2019?

Maybe Tubby can pull it off and I hope he does, but history and common sense would predict that he doesn't.

Poop
Poop
Poop, sorry, I mean
Hoop
Hoop
Hoop

I agree that we need better talent to do anything in the tournament. We cannot recruit at a high level until we demonstrate the ability to consistently make the tournament. The goal should be now to demonstrate that ability in future years, or at least show a chance. Tubby did not inherit the same momentum that Pastner did. Cal had to hire daddies to get it going, Pastner had to hire daddies to slow the collapse.

Or we can pay players.

Or we can pay a BB coach less and pay the FB guy.

(04-26-2017 03:59 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:41 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:41 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  ...

Pastner's other 4 classes were 38, 49, 67, and 120. Those are the 4 classes that I said are "comparable" to this year's 50-something class. Not sure what there is to debate about that, unless you want to argue that t #38 class is much better than #59. Of course, the 120 is not really comparable either, so.
...

Except those classes mostly aren't comparable. This class is ranked 59 based on 7 commitments. The only classes ranked worse than that are 2009 (Pastner's first year and the rank doesn't reflect Elliot Williams a 5 star, top 20 guy out of HS)), 2011 (67) (a two person class that included a 5 star recruit ranked top 10 in his class), and the next closest in rank is 2012 (49) (a four person class that had a top 50 4 star, and a three star recruit ranked similarly to our highest commit for 2017, who never broke 2 pts a game while he was here).

The closest to comparable was 2015, a class that was made up of 3 jucos and Dom Mcgee, so made up of just 4 guys, and still ranked 21 spots ahead of what we've got now.

The idea that a class where the highest ranked guy doesn't crack the top 150 (according to 247) is in any way comparable to one that includes a top 10 guy is facially ludicrous. This recruiting is indefensible at the University of Memphis. A class made up of this many guys should not be struggling to crack the top 50 at Memphis (the lowest comparably sized class under Pastner was the Lawson class at 10). Especially not when we're paying the coach a top 15 type salary. The fact that it was basically an own goal by the staff that we're having to recruit this many guys in the first place is just insult added to injury.

I'll support these guys when they suit up next year, just like I've been supporting Memphis guys for 35 years or more, but the fact of the matter is that these recruits are being put into an almost impossible position by Tubby. The chances that he'll ever coach them up (much less next year) into a team that can challenge for an AAC championship, or do more than slip in as a 10 or 11 seed in the tournament as 21-9 middle of the road AAC team are pretty small. The chances are better that things will be worse than that, and that when these guys are juniors (or maybe even sophomores) they'll be under a new coach looking to recruit better players to play in front of them.

Uhh, they aren't going to challenge for an AAC Championship next year. They will not make the NCAA tournament next year. NIT should be the goal, win a few games. It took your wet dream several years to do anything in the NCAA tournament. And he was doing God knows what to get talent.

I'm trying figure out what drugs you are using, I have it down to meth and crack. What are your dental bills like? That will help.

I wasn't talking about just next year. We probably won't challenge for an AAC title as long as Smith is here. An NIT is unlikley for next year. Remember when we brought in the top 5 class, and then we struggled all year in part because everyone was so young/new in 09 or 10? Imagine that, but with a top 60 class and only two returning scholarship players, and a recruiting average for this year lower than every team in the AAC but ECU, and over the past two years, two of the five lowest recruiting classes by average score (meaning we're bringing in below average AAC talent, not just below average Memphis talent, my God this gets worse the more I look into it).

We'll be doing well to be on the plus side of .500 next year and we'll be lucky to make the NIT in 2019.

(04-26-2017 04:15 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 04:10 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 02:03 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:54 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:08 AM)SigEpMike Wrote:  I don't have time to go into much detail, but here are the 24/7 team rankings for each year:

2009 - #120, Average Rating .8620 (Will Coleman and DJ Stephens), Elliott Williams transfer not included
2010 - #3, Average Rating .9132 (A Barton, W Barton, Joe, Jelan Kendrick, Tarik Black, Crawford, Tsafack, Trey Draper)
2011 - #67, Average Rating .9036 (Adonis Thomas, Stan Simpson)
2012 - #49, Average Rating .8645 (Shaq, Damien Woodson, Anthony Cole)
2013 - #3, Average Rating .9323 (Nichols, Iverson, Nick King, Woodson, Pookie, Markel, Jake McDowell)
2014 - #38, Average Rating .8893 (Burrell, Woodson)
2015 - #10, Average Rating .8932 (Dedric, KJ, Nick Marshall, Broddie, Craig Randall, Dante Scott, Jeremiah Martin)
2016 - #92, Average Rating .8012 (Azab)
2017 - #59, Average Rating .8000 (Johnson, Nickelberry, Enoh, Davenport, Thornton, Brewton - Parks isn't showing with a signed LOI)

So, based on National Ranking, Tubby's current class is better than only two of Pastner's classes (and similar to one more). Based on Average Rating, it's lower than all of Pastner's classes.

It's similar to 4 classes. 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014.

Remember, 2014 would of been ranked in the 50s without Dominic MaGee. Hell, if we didn't hire some player's Dad 2015 would have looked like this class. If you look at the formula's behind the rankings, there's little difference between 45-60 in the rankings. I'll write code to plot this stuff in R once I get done with my current semester.

Look. I think this media circus has doom Tubby to getting fired either this year or next. But if a new guy comes in here, there's no guarantee he's going to light it up. We are going to miss a couple locals kids. Josh did. Tubby did. Next guy will.

Recruiting rankings aren't as valuable in Basketball as football. There's too much variance since the class sizes are so much smaller. One player can change your class from the 40s to 60s. And if the evaluation is wrong on one player that ranking could be meaningless.

I'm not exactly happy with this first class, but it's not a disaster. We won't be ran off in court in the AAC.

Also. I've told you the averages are statistically meaningless. The JUCO players aren't ranked and default to a rating of 70. They do that because it's easy, but it ruins the metric. All the JUCOs except maybe Parks will be above 80 if they get rated if you sample from past JUCO rankings. For example Avery Woodson was an 83, and he was in the 40s for JUCO rankings.

Quote:It's similar to 4 classes. 2009, 2011, 2012, 2014.

This is a hugely flawed argument mostly because the classes before and after it were filled with 4 and 5 star recruits and 4 and 5 star players on the existing roster.

Quote:Remember, 2014 would of been ranked in the 50s without Dominic MaGee. Hell, if we didn't hire some player's Dad 2015 would have looked like this class. If you look at the formula's behind the rankings, there's little difference between 45-60 in the rankings.

I count a lot of IFS in here. There was no guarantee that Magee was going to be a good player and he was ranked 32 spots higher than Tubby's highest recruit. Also, when the 2014 class was being recruited, 5 star Nichols, and 4 star Iverson, Pookie, King, Markel and Shaq were still on the roster.

Quote:Also. I've told you the averages are statistically meaningless.

The rankings aren't meaningless at all. If you pull in highly ranked players you have a much better chance at being successful than you do if you don't get them. That is a fact.

Quote:The JUCO players aren't ranked and default to a rating of 70. They do that because it's easy, but it ruins the metric. All the JUCOs except maybe Parks will be above 80 if they get rated if you sample from past JUCO rankings. For example Avery Woodson was an 83, and he was in the 40s for JUCO rankings

And a bunch of those Jucos were ranked higher than our present Jucos. Will Coleman and Stan Simpson were ranked very high.

The bottom line is that we don't have an above average NCAA point guard or power forward or center on the roster right now. If you depend on a freshman to help you he better be ranked in the top 25 or at the very least in the top 50, and right now there is nobody on the radar.

#18 Joe Jackson, #23 DWash, #53 Kemp, #95 Pookie all struggled out of the gate. How in the world can anyone expect Lomax at #132 to come in and do the job in 2019?

Maybe Tubby can pull it off and I hope he does, but history and common sense would predict that he doesn't.

Poop
Poop
Poop, sorry, I mean
Hoop
Hoop
Hoop

I agree that we need better talent to do anything in the tournament. We cannot recruit at a high level until we demonstrate the ability to consistently make the tournament. The goal should be now to demonstrate that ability in future years, or at least show a chance. Tubby did not inherit the same momentum that Pastner did. Cal had to hire daddies to get it going, Pastner had to hire daddies to slow the collapse.

Or we can pay players.

Or we can pay a BB coach less and pay the FB guy.

Football will NEVER be in the black at Memphis. The expenses are too high. If basketball ball doesn't make money, at just about any d1 school, the AD is an idiot.

Besides the boosters who pay for the coaches salaries aren't the same people or groups of people. Not the same pots of money.

(04-26-2017 03:59 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:41 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:41 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  ...

Pastner's other 4 classes were 38, 49, 67, and 120. Those are the 4 classes that I said are "comparable" to this year's 50-something class. Not sure what there is to debate about that, unless you want to argue that t #38 class is much better than #59. Of course, the 120 is not really comparable either, so.
...

Except those classes mostly aren't comparable. This class is ranked 59 based on 7 commitments. The only classes ranked worse than that are 2009 (Pastner's first year and the rank doesn't reflect Elliot Williams a 5 star, top 20 guy out of HS)), 2011 (67) (a two person class that included a 5 star recruit ranked top 10 in his class), and the next closest in rank is 2012 (49) (a four person class that had a top 50 4 star, and a three star recruit ranked similarly to our highest commit for 2017, who never broke 2 pts a game while he was here).

The closest to comparable was 2015, a class that was made up of 3 jucos and Dom Mcgee, so made up of just 4 guys, and still ranked 21 spots ahead of what we've got now.

The idea that a class where the highest ranked guy doesn't crack the top 150 (according to 247) is in any way comparable to one that includes a top 10 guy is facially ludicrous. This recruiting is indefensible at the University of Memphis. A class made up of this many guys should not be struggling to crack the top 50 at Memphis (the lowest comparably sized class under Pastner was the Lawson class at 10). Especially not when we're paying the coach a top 15 type salary. The fact that it was basically an own goal by the staff that we're having to recruit this many guys in the first place is just insult added to injury.

I'll support these guys when they suit up next year, just like I've been supporting Memphis guys for 35 years or more, but the fact of the matter is that these recruits are being put into an almost impossible position by Tubby. The chances that he'll ever coach them up (much less next year) into a team that can challenge for an AAC championship, or do more than slip in as a 10 or 11 seed in the tournament as 21-9 middle of the road AAC team are pretty small. The chances are better that things will be worse than that, and that when these guys are juniors (or maybe even sophomores) they'll be under a new coach looking to recruit better players to play in front of them.

Uhh, they aren't going to challenge for an AAC Championship next year. They will not make the NCAA tournament next year. NIT should be the goal, win a few games. It took your wet dream several years to do anything in the NCAA tournament. And he was doing God knows what to get talent.

I'm trying figure out what drugs you are using, I have it down to meth and crack. What are your dental bills like? That will help.

Hey. We're all trying to keep an open positive mind about this experiment.....People say the recruits actually read this forum.

We don't want them to think that we actually think there's no hope.

o wait...maybe we do. The no hope mentality would play in nicely to the underdog team that wins it all movie.

(04-26-2017 04:24 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:59 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:41 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:41 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  ...

Pastner's other 4 classes were 38, 49, 67, and 120. Those are the 4 classes that I said are "comparable" to this year's 50-something class. Not sure what there is to debate about that, unless you want to argue that t #38 class is much better than #59. Of course, the 120 is not really comparable either, so.
...

Except those classes mostly aren't comparable. This class is ranked 59 based on 7 commitments. The only classes ranked worse than that are 2009 (Pastner's first year and the rank doesn't reflect Elliot Williams a 5 star, top 20 guy out of HS)), 2011 (67) (a two person class that included a 5 star recruit ranked top 10 in his class), and the next closest in rank is 2012 (49) (a four person class that had a top 50 4 star, and a three star recruit ranked similarly to our highest commit for 2017, who never broke 2 pts a game while he was here).

The closest to comparable was 2015, a class that was made up of 3 jucos and Dom Mcgee, so made up of just 4 guys, and still ranked 21 spots ahead of what we've got now.

The idea that a class where the highest ranked guy doesn't crack the top 150 (according to 247) is in any way comparable to one that includes a top 10 guy is facially ludicrous. This recruiting is indefensible at the University of Memphis. A class made up of this many guys should not be struggling to crack the top 50 at Memphis (the lowest comparably sized class under Pastner was the Lawson class at 10). Especially not when we're paying the coach a top 15 type salary. The fact that it was basically an own goal by the staff that we're having to recruit this many guys in the first place is just insult added to injury.

I'll support these guys when they suit up next year, just like I've been supporting Memphis guys for 35 years or more, but the fact of the matter is that these recruits are being put into an almost impossible position by Tubby. The chances that he'll ever coach them up (much less next year) into a team that can challenge for an AAC championship, or do more than slip in as a 10 or 11 seed in the tournament as 21-9 middle of the road AAC team are pretty small. The chances are better that things will be worse than that, and that when these guys are juniors (or maybe even sophomores) they'll be under a new coach looking to recruit better players to play in front of them.

Uhh, they aren't going to challenge for an AAC Championship next year. They will not make the NCAA tournament next year. NIT should be the goal, win a few games. It took your wet dream several years to do anything in the NCAA tournament. And he was doing God knows what to get talent.

I'm trying figure out what drugs you are using, I have it down to meth and crack. What are your dental bills like? That will help.

Hey. We're all trying to keep an open positive mind about this experiment.....People say the recruits actually read this forum.

We don't want them to think that we actually think there's no hope.

o wait...maybe we do. The no hope mentality would play in nicely to the underdog team that wins it all movie.

I get that, but the fan base has already turned on them, nothing outside of a round of 32 will appease them. Think of it as it's the Roman colosseum and the crowd wants blood. Luckily we don't have Nero as AD or President.

(04-26-2017 04:20 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:59 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:41 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:41 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  ...

Pastner's other 4 classes were 38, 49, 67, and 120. Those are the 4 classes that I said are "comparable" to this year's 50-something class. Not sure what there is to debate about that, unless you want to argue that t #38 class is much better than #59. Of course, the 120 is not really comparable either, so.
...

Except those classes mostly aren't comparable. This class is ranked 59 based on 7 commitments. The only classes ranked worse than that are 2009 (Pastner's first year and the rank doesn't reflect Elliot Williams a 5 star, top 20 guy out of HS)), 2011 (67) (a two person class that included a 5 star recruit ranked top 10 in his class), and the next closest in rank is 2012 (49) (a four person class that had a top 50 4 star, and a three star recruit ranked similarly to our highest commit for 2017, who never broke 2 pts a game while he was here).

The closest to comparable was 2015, a class that was made up of 3 jucos and Dom Mcgee, so made up of just 4 guys, and still ranked 21 spots ahead of what we've got now.

The idea that a class where the highest ranked guy doesn't crack the top 150 (according to 247) is in any way comparable to one that includes a top 10 guy is facially ludicrous. This recruiting is indefensible at the University of Memphis. A class made up of this many guys should not be struggling to crack the top 50 at Memphis (the lowest comparably sized class under Pastner was the Lawson class at 10). Especially not when we're paying the coach a top 15 type salary. The fact that it was basically an own goal by the staff that we're having to recruit this many guys in the first place is just insult added to injury.

I'll support these guys when they suit up next year, just like I've been supporting Memphis guys for 35 years or more, but the fact of the matter is that these recruits are being put into an almost impossible position by Tubby. The chances that he'll ever coach them up (much less next year) into a team that can challenge for an AAC championship, or do more than slip in as a 10 or 11 seed in the tournament as 21-9 middle of the road AAC team are pretty small. The chances are better that things will be worse than that, and that when these guys are juniors (or maybe even sophomores) they'll be under a new coach looking to recruit better players to play in front of them.

Uhh, they aren't going to challenge for an AAC Championship next year. They will not make the NCAA tournament next year. NIT should be the goal, win a few games. It took your wet dream several years to do anything in the NCAA tournament. And he was doing God knows what to get talent.

I'm trying figure out what drugs you are using, I have it down to meth and crack. What are your dental bills like? That will help.

I wasn't talking about just next year. We probably won't challenge for an AAC title as long as Smith is here. An NIT is unlikley for next year. Remember when we brought in the top 5 class, and then we struggled all year in part because everyone was so young/new in 09 or 10? Imagine that, but with a top 60 class and only two returning scholarship players, and a recruiting average for this year lower than every team in the AAC but ECU, and over the past two years, two of the five lowest recruiting classes by average score (meaning we're bringing in below average AAC talent, not just below average Memphis talent, my God this gets worse the more I look into it).

We'll be doing well to be on the plus side of .500 next year and we'll be lucky to make the NIT in 2019.

I'm just done. It's getting ridiculous. The trolls have won. I give up.

If you want to use broken averages from data that isn't MCAR that's fine. [1]

[1] - https://stats.stackexchange.com/question...ssing-data

(04-26-2017 03:41 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:41 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  ...

Pastner's other 4 classes were 38, 49, 67, and 120. Those are the 4 classes that I said are "comparable" to this year's 50-something class. Not sure what there is to debate about that, unless you want to argue that t #38 class is much better than #59. Of course, the 120 is not really comparable either, so.
...

Except those classes mostly aren't comparable. This class is ranked 59 based on 7 commitments. The only classes ranked worse than that are 2009 (Pastner's first year and the rank doesn't reflect Elliot Williams a 5 star, top 20 guy out of HS)), 2011 (67) (a two person class that included a 5 star recruit ranked top 10 in his class), and the next closest in rank is 2012 (49) (a four person class that had a top 50 4 star, and a three star recruit ranked similarly to our highest commit for 2017, who never broke 2 pts a game while he was here).

The closest to comparable was [edit 2015 2014], a class that was made up of 3 jucos and Dom Mcgee, so made up of just 4 guys, and still ranked 21 spots ahead of what we've got now.

The idea that a class where the highest ranked guy doesn't crack the top 150 (according to 247) is in any way comparable to one that includes a top 10 guy is facially ludicrous. This recruiting is indefensible at the University of Memphis. A class made up of this many guys should not be struggling to crack the top 50 at Memphis (the lowest comparably sized class under Pastner was the Lawson class at 10). Especially not when we're paying the coach a top 15 type salary. The fact that it was basically an own goal by the staff that we're having to recruit this many guys in the first place is just insult added to injury.

I'll support these guys when they suit up next year, just like I've been supporting Memphis guys for 35 years or more, but the fact of the matter is that these recruits are being put into an almost impossible position by Tubby. The chances that he'll ever coach them up (much less next year) into a team that can challenge for an AAC championship, or do more than slip in as a 10 or 11 seed in the tournament as 21-9 middle of the road AAC team are pretty small. The chances are better that things will be worse than that, and that when these guys are juniors (or maybe even sophomores) they'll be under a new coach looking to recruit better players to play in front of them.

Yep.

jimmy's and joe's

versus

x's and o's

Show of hands: Who has watched over 10 JuCo games in the last 4 years?

just curious is all.

(04-26-2017 04:38 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 04:20 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:59 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 03:41 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 11:41 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  ...

Pastner's other 4 classes were 38, 49, 67, and 120. Those are the 4 classes that I said are "comparable" to this year's 50-something class. Not sure what there is to debate about that, unless you want to argue that t #38 class is much better than #59. Of course, the 120 is not really comparable either, so.
...

Except those classes mostly aren't comparable. This class is ranked 59 based on 7 commitments. The only classes ranked worse than that are 2009 (Pastner's first year and the rank doesn't reflect Elliot Williams a 5 star, top 20 guy out of HS)), 2011 (67) (a two person class that included a 5 star recruit ranked top 10 in his class), and the next closest in rank is 2012 (49) (a four person class that had a top 50 4 star, and a three star recruit ranked similarly to our highest commit for 2017, who never broke 2 pts a game while he was here).

The closest to comparable was 2015, a class that was made up of 3 jucos and Dom Mcgee, so made up of just 4 guys, and still ranked 21 spots ahead of what we've got now.

The idea that a class where the highest ranked guy doesn't crack the top 150 (according to 247) is in any way comparable to one that includes a top 10 guy is facially ludicrous. This recruiting is indefensible at the University of Memphis. A class made up of this many guys should not be struggling to crack the top 50 at Memphis (the lowest comparably sized class under Pastner was the Lawson class at 10). Especially not when we're paying the coach a top 15 type salary. The fact that it was basically an own goal by the staff that we're having to recruit this many guys in the first place is just insult added to injury.

I'll support these guys when they suit up next year, just like I've been supporting Memphis guys for 35 years or more, but the fact of the matter is that these recruits are being put into an almost impossible position by Tubby. The chances that he'll ever coach them up (much less next year) into a team that can challenge for an AAC championship, or do more than slip in as a 10 or 11 seed in the tournament as 21-9 middle of the road AAC team are pretty small. The chances are better that things will be worse than that, and that when these guys are juniors (or maybe even sophomores) they'll be under a new coach looking to recruit better players to play in front of them.

Uhh, they aren't going to challenge for an AAC Championship next year. They will not make the NCAA tournament next year. NIT should be the goal, win a few games. It took your wet dream several years to do anything in the NCAA tournament. And he was doing God knows what to get talent.

I'm trying figure out what drugs you are using, I have it down to meth and crack. What are your dental bills like? That will help.

I wasn't talking about just next year. We probably won't challenge for an AAC title as long as Smith is here. An NIT is unlikley for next year. Remember when we brought in the top 5 class, and then we struggled all year in part because everyone was so young/new in 09 or 10? Imagine that, but with a top 60 class and only two returning scholarship players, and a recruiting average for this year lower than every team in the AAC but ECU, and over the past two years, two of the five lowest recruiting classes by average score (meaning we're bringing in below average AAC talent, not just below average Memphis talent, my God this gets worse the more I look into it).

We'll be doing well to be on the plus side of .500 next year and we'll be lucky to make the NIT in 2019.

I'm just done. It's getting ridiculous. The trolls have won. I give up.

If you want to use broken averages from data that isn't MCAR that's fine. [1]

[1] - https://stats.stackexchange.com/question...ssing-data

Why are people getting so bent out of shape about the stats..? It is what it is.

No stats are infallible, but don't we use the same kind of data every year. I've never seen folks go quite this nutz.

(04-26-2017 05:09 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Show of hands: Who has watched over 10 JuCo games in the last 4 years?

just curious is all.

Don't dance around how you feel about the players Tubby has signed. Just come out and point blank state I don't think they are any good at all.

I would suggest you read the article Ginnatto wrote in CA online about Mike Parks, go look at what his juco coach had to say about not just Parks but the other juco players Tubby has recruited. He states that these aren't your typical juco players. Yes probably more than half of the juco kids out there aren't good enough for D1 ball, but we didn't go sign those kids.

Also while the experts here tell us how terrible the players we have signed are, there's no mention of the two FIVE star players they offered after seeing them this past weekend at AAU games. I thought Tubby didn't recruit five star players??

We all are fans of Tiger BB and the program.

At the end of the season, Tubby complained that our expectations were too high.

We lower them and are now being told we are too negative.

The end.

(04-26-2017 05:27 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  We all are fans of Tiger BB and the program.

At the end of the season, Tubby complained that our expectations were too high.

We lower them and are now being told we are too negative.

The end.

That is our arrogant disaster at his finest.

(04-26-2017 05:26 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  Also while the experts here tell us how terrible the players we have signed are, there's no mention of the two FIVE star players they offered after seeing them this past weekend at AAU games. I thought Tubby didn't recruit five star players??

The irony in that is it is usually the Tubby supporters saying he doesn't recruit 5star players because of the baggage, entourages, and problems they bring. It is the Tubby supporters who keep saying STARS STARS STARS in hyperbole. At this point we really don't know who Tubby is "recruiting" only a few of the players who have "offers".

(04-26-2017 06:55 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 05:26 PM)Joe1 Wrote:  Also while the experts here tell us how terrible the players we have signed are, there's no mention of the two FIVE star players they offered after seeing them this past weekend at AAU games. I thought Tubby didn't recruit five star players??

The irony in that is it is usually the Tubby supporters saying he doesn't recruit 5star players because of the baggage, entourages, and problems they bring. It is the Tubby supporters who keep saying STARS STARS STARS in hyperbole. At this point we really don't know who Tubby is "recruiting" only a few of the players who have "offers".

Interesting how you address some as "Tubby supporters". Why everyone isn't a Tubby supporter at this stage (we haven't even played one game in year two) is beyond me. If after year three we aren't worth a damn, by all means don't be a "Tubby supporter". Heck if that's the case I'll be leading the pack and will want him gone. But we aren't there yet.