The complexity is designed to use the power of the gov't to make social changes. That's not what the tax code should be all about. It should be only an apparatus to collect money on EARNINGS (wages/tips/dividends/capital gains) - regardless of the form.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/complexity-...1492469801

Quote:As the national taxpayer advocate, I oversee an independent unit within the Internal Revenue Service that has helped more than four million individual and business taxpayers resolve their IRS account problems, and I am required to report to Congress annually on the most serious problems encountered by U.S. taxpayers.

If I had to distill everything I’ve learned into one sentence, it would be this: The root of all evil is the complexity of the tax code.
.
.
.
I have long believed comprehensive tax simplification is achievable by following the model of the landmark Tax Reform Act of 1986. Skeptics point out that asking taxpayers to give up tax breaks from which they currently benefit will generate pushback, and that’s certainly true. But if policy makers pair substantial reductions in tax expenditures with substantial reductions in tax rates, and maintain current tax-burden levels by income decile, I believe taxpayers will appreciate that their tax burdens on average won’t change much—and they will actually end up better off because they will save money on compliance costs. That approach prevailed 30 years ago, and despite some significant differences in circumstances, it could prevail again today.

The problem is Congress. They want to give breaks to their favorite thing (solar energy for example). And they don't want to admit what they are doing. The phase out of the itemized deductions and personal exemptions was so Republicans could vote for a tax increase and claim they weren't raising rates. Its one of the more ridiculous things they have done.

If you want to see absurdity, just look at Form 6251, the Alternative Minimum Tax. I think it has doubled in length in the last 10-15 years. And its a tax on the middle class (upper middle class). The wealthy aren't really impacted since basic rates have gone up.

A whole industry designed to fight the tax code has cropped up.

The truth is the tax code for regular people is quite simple and easy to navigate.

Get your W-2
Claim your exemption
File

I'm a believer that the average American is dumber than they used to be and thus the code appears more difficult.

It's like a snow ball rolling down hill. As clever folks find ways to dodge taxes, more code is added.

I think the complexity is more a bug than a feature.

Couple that with the fact that it's mostly written to try and cover every conceivable thing that can happen.

(04-18-2017 03:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A whole industry designed to fight the tax code has cropped up.

The truth is the tax code for regular people is quite simple and easy to navigate.

Get your W-2
Claim your exemption
File

I'm a believer that the average American is dumber than they used to be and thus the code appears more difficult.

It sure aint rocket surgery.

nm......but I'm laughing....

(04-18-2017 03:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A whole industry designed to fight the tax code has cropped up.

The truth is the tax code for regular people is quite simple and easy to navigate.

Get your W-2
Claim your exemption
File

I'm a believer that the average American is dumber than they used to be and thus the code appears more difficult.

Not so simple for 2 income professionals. Can get really complex for anyone who has their own business or rental real estate.

The biggest failure of Republicans. They want to limit all of government except for it's giant tooth-filled money-grabbing maw.

Kill the snake except for the bitey part.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

(04-18-2017 03:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A whole industry designed to fight the tax code has cropped up.

The truth is the tax code for regular people is quite simple and easy to navigate.

Get your W-2
Claim your exemption
File

I'm a believer that the average American is dumber than they used to be and thus the code appears more difficult.

I don't interpret it as the code being too complex to understand - more like the number of credits and exemptions are too numerous. That tells me that the gov't wants me to behave in a certain way and that I'll be rewarded by them if I do.

I imagine small business owners who can file their business taxes as part of their individual return are the ones this is most geared towards. Most people are taking standard exemption and being done with it. That's where I'm at now based on the mortgage interest I'm paying now. Not enough to make a difference.

(04-18-2017 03:45 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  nm......but I'm laughing....

yeah, I'm almost there myself.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(04-18-2017 04:07 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 03:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A whole industry designed to fight the tax code has cropped up.

The truth is the tax code for regular people is quite simple and easy to navigate.

Get your W-2
Claim your exemption
File

I'm a believer that the average American is dumber than they used to be and thus the code appears more difficult.

I don't interpret it as the code being too complex to understand - more like the number of credits and exemptions are too numerous. That tells me that the gov't wants me to behave in a certain way and that I'll be rewarded by them if I do.

I imagine small business owners who can file their business taxes as part of their individual return are the ones this is most geared towards. Most people are taking standard exemption and being done with it. That's where I'm at now based on the mortgage interest I'm paying now. Not enough to make a difference.

ya think???

you'd be amazed what software and da finga can do......

(04-18-2017 03:41 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 03:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A whole industry designed to fight the tax code has cropped up.

The truth is the tax code for regular people is quite simple and easy to navigate.

Get your W-2
Claim your exemption
File

I'm a believer that the average American is dumber than they used to be and thus the code appears more difficult.

It sure aint rocket surgery.

lol....or brain science

hell, I got 8 mins. 'til 4:20....

(04-18-2017 04:10 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 04:07 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 03:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A whole industry designed to fight the tax code has cropped up.

The truth is the tax code for regular people is quite simple and easy to navigate.

Get your W-2
Claim your exemption
File

I'm a believer that the average American is dumber than they used to be and thus the code appears more difficult.

I don't interpret it as the code being too complex to understand - more like the number of credits and exemptions are too numerous. That tells me that the gov't wants me to behave in a certain way and that I'll be rewarded by them if I do.

I imagine small business owners who can file their business taxes as part of their individual return are the ones this is most geared towards. Most people are taking standard exemption and being done with it. That's where I'm at now based on the mortgage interest I'm paying now. Not enough to make a difference.

ya think???

you'd be amazed what software and da finga can do......

Software has done a lot of streamlining what used be more cumbersome when done with a pencil. But it's not the hoops that we have to jump thru, but the IRS that becomes empowered thru the volume of tax rules in place. You take much of the Feds power away if we deal with nothing more than inputs and outputs only...

(04-18-2017 04:14 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 04:10 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 04:07 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 03:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A whole industry designed to fight the tax code has cropped up.

The truth is the tax code for regular people is quite simple and easy to navigate.

Get your W-2
Claim your exemption
File

I'm a believer that the average American is dumber than they used to be and thus the code appears more difficult.

I don't interpret it as the code being too complex to understand - more like the number of credits and exemptions are too numerous. That tells me that the gov't wants me to behave in a certain way and that I'll be rewarded by them if I do.

I imagine small business owners who can file their business taxes as part of their individual return are the ones this is most geared towards. Most people are taking standard exemption and being done with it. That's where I'm at now based on the mortgage interest I'm paying now. Not enough to make a difference.

ya think???

you'd be amazed what software and da finga can do......

Software has done a lot of streamlining what used be more cumbersome when done with a pencil. But it's not the hoops that we have to jump thru, but the IRS that becomes empowered thru the volume of tax rules in place. You take much of the Feds power away if we deal with nothing more than inputs and outputs only...

da finga in combination with it distracts their focus....

if one owns their own business and does it with lead in their arse......oh wellzy.....

the focus is shifted to the heavily burdened relative to manpower....it's become infinitely easier.....

if they wanted to prosecute everyone over a handful of Ks......do I need to say anything else?

the entire thing is just another stupid fk'n game....

https://www.wsj.com/articles/complexity-...1492469801

"...But I urge policy makers to remember that, as compared with about two million taxable corporations, there are 151 million individual taxpayers, including 27 million who report sole-proprietor or farm business income with their individual returns. There are also nearly nine million pass-through entities (S corporations and partnerships), the income from which is reported on individual income-tax returns. These taxpayers desperately need relief from the extraordinary compliance burdens the tax code imposes. ...

...Consolidate and simplify the six “family status” provisions in tax code. These include filing status, personal and dependency exemptions, the child tax credit, the earned-income tax credit, the child- and dependent-care credit, and the separated spouse rule. Every individual taxpayer is affected by at least two of these provisions, and many taxpayers are affected by five. I have proposed a family credit and a worker credit to replace them, which would have the added benefit of reducing improper EITC payments.

Simplify other provisions that govern taxation of the family unit, including “joint and several liability” and the “kiddie tax.”
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for education. There are now at least 12—far too many for most parents and students to make an informed choice.
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for retirement. There are now at least 15—again, far too many.
Reduce procedural incentives for Congress to use tax “sunsets.” More than 70 provisions currently in the tax code are temporary and require periodic renewal.
Minimize income phase-outs, which affect roughly half of all returns each year. They introduce inflated marginal “rate bubbles” and add considerable complexity to tax computations.
Streamline the penalty regime. In 1955, there were 14 civil penalties in the tax code. Today, there are more than 170, many of which are rarely assessed.
U.S. taxpayers have been struggling under the weight of the current tax code for far too long. The Bush and Obama administrations both produced reports with many good simplification proposals, as have the House Ways and Means and Senate Finance committees and others. There is no shortage of good ideas. Now is the time for the administration and Congress to seize the moment and finally, this year, carry tax reform across the goal line."

(04-18-2017 04:07 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 03:33 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  A whole industry designed to fight the tax code has cropped up.

The truth is the tax code for regular people is quite simple and easy to navigate.

Get your W-2
Claim your exemption
File

I'm a believer that the average American is dumber than they used to be and thus the code appears more difficult.

I don't interpret it as the code being too complex to understand - more like the number of credits and exemptions are too numerous. That tells me that the gov't wants me to behave in a certain way and that I'll be rewarded by them if I do.

I imagine small business owners who can file their business taxes as part of their individual return are the ones this is most geared towards. Most people are taking standard exemption and being done with it. That's where I'm at now based on the mortgage interest I'm paying now. Not enough to make a difference.

The complexity is derived from the myriad things one can spend their money on.

The returns are itemized. That's where a great deal of the low level confusion is. It's not with any complex issue or off the wall theory.

Did you buy glasses?
Did you buy health insurance?
Did you buy long time disability insurance?
Did you donate? What did you donate and to whom?
Are you a teacher? Did you spend money on your kids?
Did you pay sales tax?

Where is your income derived?
Which form were you given?
What was withheld?
Did you pay estimated tax?

It's just tracking money.

(04-18-2017 04:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.wsj.com/articles/complexity-...1492469801

"...But I urge policy makers to remember that, as compared with about two million taxable corporations, there are 151 million individual taxpayers, including 27 million who report sole-proprietor or farm business income with their individual returns. There are also nearly nine million pass-through entities (S corporations and partnerships), the income from which is reported on individual income-tax returns. These taxpayers desperately need relief from the extraordinary compliance burdens the tax code imposes. ...

...Consolidate and simplify the six “family status” provisions in tax code. These include filing status, personal and dependency exemptions, the child tax credit, the earned-income tax credit, the child- and dependent-care credit, and the separated spouse rule. Every individual taxpayer is affected by at least two of these provisions, and many taxpayers are affected by five. I have proposed a family credit and a worker credit to replace them, which would have the added benefit of reducing improper EITC payments.

Simplify other provisions that govern taxation of the family unit, including “joint and several liability” and the “kiddie tax.”
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for education. There are now at least 12—far too many for most parents and students to make an informed choice.
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for retirement. There are now at least 15—again, far too many.
Reduce procedural incentives for Congress to use tax “sunsets.” More than 70 provisions currently in the tax code are temporary and require periodic renewal.
Minimize income phase-outs, which affect roughly half of all returns each year. They introduce inflated marginal “rate bubbles” and add considerable complexity to tax computations.
Streamline the penalty regime. In 1955, there were 14 civil penalties in the tax code. Today, there are more than 170, many of which are rarely assessed.
U.S. taxpayers have been struggling under the weight of the current tax code for far too long. The Bush and Obama administrations both produced reports with many good simplification proposals, as have the House Ways and Means and Senate Finance committees and others. There is no shortage of good ideas. Now is the time for the administration and Congress to seize the moment and finally, this year, carry tax reform across the goal line."

I'm against lowering the bar or dumbing down the system. The suggestions contained in that article are little more than that and will do little to help a single mom who reads on a third grade level and cannot do fractions.

(04-18-2017 04:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 04:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.wsj.com/articles/complexity-...1492469801

"...But I urge policy makers to remember that, as compared with about two million taxable corporations, there are 151 million individual taxpayers, including 27 million who report sole-proprietor or farm business income with their individual returns. There are also nearly nine million pass-through entities (S corporations and partnerships), the income from which is reported on individual income-tax returns. These taxpayers desperately need relief from the extraordinary compliance burdens the tax code imposes. ...

...Consolidate and simplify the six “family status” provisions in tax code. These include filing status, personal and dependency exemptions, the child tax credit, the earned-income tax credit, the child- and dependent-care credit, and the separated spouse rule. Every individual taxpayer is affected by at least two of these provisions, and many taxpayers are affected by five. I have proposed a family credit and a worker credit to replace them, which would have the added benefit of reducing improper EITC payments.

Simplify other provisions that govern taxation of the family unit, including “joint and several liability” and the “kiddie tax.”
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for education. There are now at least 12—far too many for most parents and students to make an informed choice.
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for retirement. There are now at least 15—again, far too many.
Reduce procedural incentives for Congress to use tax “sunsets.” More than 70 provisions currently in the tax code are temporary and require periodic renewal.
Minimize income phase-outs, which affect roughly half of all returns each year. They introduce inflated marginal “rate bubbles” and add considerable complexity to tax computations.
Streamline the penalty regime. In 1955, there were 14 civil penalties in the tax code. Today, there are more than 170, many of which are rarely assessed.
U.S. taxpayers have been struggling under the weight of the current tax code for far too long. The Bush and Obama administrations both produced reports with many good simplification proposals, as have the House Ways and Means and Senate Finance committees and others. There is no shortage of good ideas. Now is the time for the administration and Congress to seize the moment and finally, this year, carry tax reform across the goal line."

I'm against lowering the bar or dumbing down the system. The suggestions contained in that article are little more than that and will do little to help a single mom who reads on a third grade level and cannot do fractions.

Well they help the substantial number who pay most of the income taxes. The system has been "dumbed down."

One of the best ways to test someone's intelligence is to see how complex their method of doing things is. Simpler is both more intelligent and more efficient.

Congressmen and their staff who write bills are not that intelligent.

(04-18-2017 05:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 04:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 04:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.wsj.com/articles/complexity-...1492469801

"...But I urge policy makers to remember that, as compared with about two million taxable corporations, there are 151 million individual taxpayers, including 27 million who report sole-proprietor or farm business income with their individual returns. There are also nearly nine million pass-through entities (S corporations and partnerships), the income from which is reported on individual income-tax returns. These taxpayers desperately need relief from the extraordinary compliance burdens the tax code imposes. ...

...Consolidate and simplify the six “family status” provisions in tax code. These include filing status, personal and dependency exemptions, the child tax credit, the earned-income tax credit, the child- and dependent-care credit, and the separated spouse rule. Every individual taxpayer is affected by at least two of these provisions, and many taxpayers are affected by five. I have proposed a family credit and a worker credit to replace them, which would have the added benefit of reducing improper EITC payments.

Simplify other provisions that govern taxation of the family unit, including “joint and several liability” and the “kiddie tax.”
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for education. There are now at least 12—far too many for most parents and students to make an informed choice.
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for retirement. There are now at least 15—again, far too many.
Reduce procedural incentives for Congress to use tax “sunsets.” More than 70 provisions currently in the tax code are temporary and require periodic renewal.
Minimize income phase-outs, which affect roughly half of all returns each year. They introduce inflated marginal “rate bubbles” and add considerable complexity to tax computations.
Streamline the penalty regime. In 1955, there were 14 civil penalties in the tax code. Today, there are more than 170, many of which are rarely assessed.
U.S. taxpayers have been struggling under the weight of the current tax code for far too long. The Bush and Obama administrations both produced reports with many good simplification proposals, as have the House Ways and Means and Senate Finance committees and others. There is no shortage of good ideas. Now is the time for the administration and Congress to seize the moment and finally, this year, carry tax reform across the goal line."

I'm against lowering the bar or dumbing down the system. The suggestions contained in that article are little more than that and will do little to help a single mom who reads on a third grade level and cannot do fractions.

Well they help the substantial number who pay most of the income taxes. The system has been "dumbed down."

One of the best ways to test someone's intelligence is to see how complex their method of doing things is. Simpler is both more intelligent and more efficient.

Congressmen and their staff who write bills are not that intelligent.

"the best design is the simplest one that works" - Albert Einstein

(04-18-2017 05:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 04:59 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 04:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.wsj.com/articles/complexity-...1492469801

"...But I urge policy makers to remember that, as compared with about two million taxable corporations, there are 151 million individual taxpayers, including 27 million who report sole-proprietor or farm business income with their individual returns. There are also nearly nine million pass-through entities (S corporations and partnerships), the income from which is reported on individual income-tax returns. These taxpayers desperately need relief from the extraordinary compliance burdens the tax code imposes. ...

...Consolidate and simplify the six “family status” provisions in tax code. These include filing status, personal and dependency exemptions, the child tax credit, the earned-income tax credit, the child- and dependent-care credit, and the separated spouse rule. Every individual taxpayer is affected by at least two of these provisions, and many taxpayers are affected by five. I have proposed a family credit and a worker credit to replace them, which would have the added benefit of reducing improper EITC payments.

Simplify other provisions that govern taxation of the family unit, including “joint and several liability” and the “kiddie tax.”
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for education. There are now at least 12—far too many for most parents and students to make an informed choice.
Consolidate the incentives that encourage savings for retirement. There are now at least 15—again, far too many.
Reduce procedural incentives for Congress to use tax “sunsets.” More than 70 provisions currently in the tax code are temporary and require periodic renewal.
Minimize income phase-outs, which affect roughly half of all returns each year. They introduce inflated marginal “rate bubbles” and add considerable complexity to tax computations.
Streamline the penalty regime. In 1955, there were 14 civil penalties in the tax code. Today, there are more than 170, many of which are rarely assessed.
U.S. taxpayers have been struggling under the weight of the current tax code for far too long. The Bush and Obama administrations both produced reports with many good simplification proposals, as have the House Ways and Means and Senate Finance committees and others. There is no shortage of good ideas. Now is the time for the administration and Congress to seize the moment and finally, this year, carry tax reform across the goal line."

I'm against lowering the bar or dumbing down the system. The suggestions contained in that article are little more than that and will do little to help a single mom who reads on a third grade level and cannot do fractions.

Well they help the substantial number who pay most of the income taxes. The system has been "dumbed down."

One of the best ways to test someone's intelligence is to see how complex their method of doing things is. Simpler is both more intelligent and more efficient.

Congressmen and their staff who write bills are not that intelligent.

What exactly is so complex?