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Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
(04-19-2017 08:54 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(04-19-2017 07:20 AM)XLance Wrote:  #1 Johns Hopkins research dollars are about equal to #2 Michigan and #3 Wisconsin combined. The CIC probably wants to take notes.

That's a load of crap, though.

JHU is a great school, don't get me wrong. But it's not a true #1. Hence why it always has an asterisk.


(04-19-2017 08:22 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  My thoughts on research at one school tangibly impacting research at another are pretty well known,

No, that's not your thought. Because there's no point in arguing if one school's research directly affects another school's research. It doesn't, and no one says otherwise. Indirectly, sure, in small ways.

Your thought is "I don't understand why a school would be added to an athletics conference because of its research". Because you don't get it.

So now you're telling me what I'm thinking?

Let that sink in and ask yourself if you want to reevaluate your position. I guarantee you that you're wrong.
04-19-2017 09:58 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
Address the argument, not the poster.

- saying "I don't understand why one school's research directly affects another school's research" is a meaningless point. No one is saying it does, and it doesn't.
- saying "I don't understand why one school would be added to an athletics conference because of its research" means you're trying to wrap your head around the wrong thing


Either way, your position isn't helping you.
04-19-2017 10:01 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
(04-19-2017 09:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(04-19-2017 08:22 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  In all honestly, the CIC, like all the other conference academic consortiums, is severely overblown.

It is. That's what made Chicago's words on it very humbling. They are associated with Big Ten schools in so many other different groups, coops, and associations...CIC/BTAA was no longer worth the association fee. It wasn't worth it. It's just another club.

These things are a dime a dozen. CIC/BTAA, to Chicago and Johns Hopkins at least, isn't anything special.

Quote:JHU is a great school, don't get me wrong. But it's not a true #1. Hence why it always has an asterisk.

The other end, you have all those ag-sci schools who can't count other funding sources toward their research dollar intake, like UNL. Saying JHU has an asterisk is just petty. The whole structure is really subjective.

Agreed.
04-19-2017 10:02 AM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
(04-19-2017 10:01 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Address the argument, not the poster.

- saying "I don't understand why one school's research directly affects another school's research" is a meaningless point. No one is saying it does, and it doesn't.
- saying "I don't understand why one school would be added to an athletics conference because of its research" means you're trying to wrap your head around the wrong thing


Either way, your position isn't helping you.

Huh? I did address your post. Your argument consisted of telling me that you know what I'm thinking, but I don't. That's a stupid statement on its face, so no, you're wrong again.

And your post is the rough equivalent of me saying your position is generally "I'm a raging B1G homer w/ a massive inferiority complex who generally has no idea how academia works, so I'm going to make desperate and vague arguements stressing the importance of research and the conference-facilitated connectivity of research because that's the largely meaningless arbitrary benchmark that my favorite collection of schools happen to be good at."
04-19-2017 10:08 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
Glad you now understand that research is a critically important factor for being added to conferences like the Big Ten and PAC, and to a lesser extent the rest of the P5 (would have said the ACC too, but high research adds like Pitt are offset by low research adds like Syracuse).
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 10:23 AM by MplsBison.)
04-19-2017 10:18 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
(04-19-2017 09:54 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Nebraska counts all the research funding it spends. Funding that Nebraska medical (in Omaha ... but not part of UNO) spends doesn't count for Lincoln, right now.

I'm talking about the APL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_Ph...Laboratory This is why JHU has an actual asterisk by its name in the #1 position.

What gives you the authority to differentiate? It's subjective.

Whether you or I feel Hopkins bloats their numbers thanks to the lab is irrelevant. It doesn't seem to generate any kind of formal rebuke from any important folks. It's just the stuff of petty squabbling among school faculty, administrators, and other detractors.

AAU definitely doesn't seem to disagree with what and how Hopkins gets their count. They seem to care how Nebraska, Syracuse, and Catholic got theirs, though.
04-19-2017 11:14 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
Bish, look at the actual rankings list. There is actually an asterisk there. I wouldn't have said anything if it was just my opinion.

https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_17.html
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_21.html


Note how APL is an entirely separate campus from JHU, how JHU gets more than double the federal funding as anyone else, and how most of that extra funding comes from DoD and NASA sources. That is very unusual for an academic institution. Well, that's because APL really isn't an academic institution -- it's a defense R&D contractor.

It wasn't founded by JHU, either. So I have no earthly idea why JHU gets to maintain such an association with the APL, and pretend that the research spending at APL is "really" JHU research spending.


AAU wouldn't care, because JHU without the APL would still be #11 in research.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 11:48 AM by MplsBison.)
04-19-2017 11:46 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
(04-19-2017 11:46 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Bish, look at the actual rankings list. There is actually an asterisk there. I wouldn't have said anything if it was just my opinion.

https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_17.html
https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/herd/2015/html...ST_21.html


Note how APL is an entirely separate campus from JHU, how JHU gets more than double the federal funding as anyone else, and how most of that extra funding comes from DoD and NASA sources. That is very unusual for an academic institution. Well, that's because APL really isn't an academic institution -- it's a defense R&D contractor.

It wasn't founded by JHU, either. So I have no earthly idea why JHU gets to maintain such an association with the APL, and pretend that the research spending at APL is "really" JHU research spending.


AAU wouldn't care, because JHU without the APL would still be #11 in research.

NSF only notes there is a reporting nuance. How one wants to interpret what that nuance should mean in terms of ranking? NSF isn't doing that for anyone. It places Hopkins at the top of the list including APL.

"Not a true number one" is your interpretation. NSF has them at number one.
04-19-2017 12:05 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
Correct, nuance ... just like I said, it gets an asterisk.

If Maryland decided it would report its research spending as the combined spending of Maryland plus UM Baltimore, it would also receive an asterisk on its entry. Or if Nebraska decided it would report its research spending as the combined spending of Nebraska plus the UN Medical Center, it would also receive an asterisk on its entry.

And so, JHU's research puts it as the #11 ranked school, so I will refer to them as that going forward.

Glad we agree.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 12:49 PM by MplsBison.)
04-19-2017 12:47 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Johns Hopkins , Big Ten Lacrosse and the future
(04-19-2017 08:54 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(04-19-2017 07:20 AM)XLance Wrote:  #1 Johns Hopkins research dollars are about equal to #2 Michigan and #3 Wisconsin combined. The CIC probably wants to take notes.

That's a load of crap, though.

JHU is a great school, don't get me wrong. But it's not a true #1. Hence why it always has an asterisk.

The Applied Physics Laboratory accounts for only about 50% of JHU's research dollars.




(04-19-2017 08:22 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  My thoughts on research at one school tangibly impacting research at another are pretty well known,

No, that's not your thought. Because there's no point in arguing if one school's research directly affects another school's research. It doesn't, and no one says otherwise. Indirectly, sure, in small ways.

Your thought is "I don't understand why a school would be added to an athletics conference because of its research". Because you don't get it.
04-19-2017 12:57 PM
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