I sure wish we had a 2 or 3 quote maximum function.

(04-20-2017 09:03 AM)TG4 Wrote:  I sure wish we had a 2 or 3 quote maximum function.

lol I'm just sitting here scrolling my life away yea.

(04-20-2017 08:46 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  ....which brings us back to the truth --'so far' we have a minuscule amount of D1 experience. Players need time to adjust to the next level of play. It was good Rose had some experienced guys around him when he popped up like a jack in the box surrounded by tall guys who wanted the ball.

I used to chuckle at that, btw.

We didn't have a lot of experience last year either. We didn't have a lot of experience when Joe Jackson was a freshman (NCAA birth). We didn't have a lot of experience originally with the Laurinburg Prep guys (Elite 8). I get that experience matters to some extent. It might not be as important as some make it out to be though.

If we could actually hit a home run on a grad transfer I'd feel better about that route. It hasn't worked that well so far (Chad, Kessee, Pellom and Godfrey). Mike Dixon was obviously a slam dunk, but that's about the only one that comes to mind.

(04-20-2017 09:46 AM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 08:46 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  ....which brings us back to the truth --'so far' we have a minuscule amount of D1 experience. Players need time to adjust to the next level of play. It was good Rose had some experienced guys around him when he popped up like a jack in the box surrounded by tall guys who wanted the ball.

I used to chuckle at that, btw.

We didn't have a lot of experience last year either. We didn't have a lot of experience when Joe Jackson was a freshman (NCAA birth). We didn't have a lot of experience originally with the Laurinburg Prep guys (Elite 8). I get that experience matters to some extent. It might not be as important as some make it out to be though.

If we could actually hit a home run on a grad transfer I'd feel better about that route. It hasn't worked that well so far (Chad, Kessee, Pellom and Godfrey). Mike Dixon was obviously a slam dunk, but that's about the only one that comes to mind.

The Tubby model of late involves taking lowly rated recruits and coach them up while they gain experience.

(04-18-2017 04:00 PM)FUT Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 02:09 PM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 01:10 PM)FUT Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 01:06 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 12:54 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  IMO, the best way for the average fan to help is through buying season tickets, donating to the TSF, and attending games as means and time permit.

I believe the infrastructure is in place for a coach to restore our program to regular NCAA appearances, wins, and occasional S 16 or better slot.

What I'm talking about is recruiting strategy...options could include, but aren't limited to:

Mainly recruit Memphis kids no matter the level of talent/baggage.
Only recruit top level Memphis prospects and fill in the rest with studs from elsewhere.
Ignore most of the players in Memphis and go after studs elsewhere.
Try to sign a team full of one and dones.
Sign mainly 4 star guys and hope they stay for 4 years.
Have a coach like Tubby that recruits a certain type of player and tries to coach them up. AKA mainly 3 star guys and JUCOs with the occasional 4 star.

Hire a young, connected, energetic guy who recruits his tail off. Make him hire an ex head coach for Xs and Os and build a fence around Memphis.

Sounds familiar and how did that turn out seven seasons later?

Well Forbes has only been at his current job a couple of years and just made the tournament how is that working out? Josh is not the only young coach out there and he never hired an Xs and Os guy while he was here which was one of my criteria. But just read what you want and ignore the rest.

You think Forbes is young?

(04-19-2017 12:33 PM)FUT Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 12:24 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 12:22 PM)FUT Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 12:18 PM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 12:13 PM)FUT Wrote:  One of the guys from Roar just confirmed this to be true on twitter. At least now we can stop shooting the messengers who tried to tell you guys the way it went down and focus on if Tubby handled it correctly.

Well if it was on Twitter in 50 words or less, it must be a fact and tell the entire story.

It was actually only one word. Yea. It was in response to the question about was it true that the staff did not have contact with Markel until he told them he was leaving. I apologize but I thought Roar was considered a reliable source by a lot of the folks here who questioned how it went down.

What does 'the staff did not have contact with Markel' mean? He was with them everyday for the past 6 months.

It means from the time they finished the season until he walked into Tubbys office he did not hear from the staff. Not about classes, or workouts, or just a general how are things going. How people can be ok with that is crazy to me.

More twitter news but the Roar person also insinuated it was because Tubby thought at least one of the Lawsons (KJ I assume) was coming back and it has been well documented that KJ and Markel did not get along.

They had mandatory workouts post-season. Safe to assume the player-staff interaction would have absolutely occurred there. But I hear Markel skipped the workouts. That was probably the tell.

(04-20-2017 08:41 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 02:14 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 04:31 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 04:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 09:22 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Pure Calspeak brainwashing.

Derrick Rose's first four games in college:

17pt/6reb/6ast
21/5/5
17/4/5
17/6/0
First double digit assist game: Game 6
First double digit rebound game: Game 7

Stats through the end of December:
15.5ppg
4.7 rebs
4.4 assists

Rose's final stats:
14.9 pts
4.7 reb
4.5 assist

SO...actually...Rose put equal to better numbers his first two months than the rest of the season.

The poster said that it took a few months for him to adjust so you are somewhat right but he is more right than you are.

I THINK you made a mistake in your calculation for the first 4 games. If I did please correct me. He scored 24 points had 6 rebounds and 0 assists against UConn.

Rose 1st 4 Games
Total 19.8 points, 2.3 assists, 5.5 rebounds
17pt/6reb/5ast
21/5/1
17/5/3
24/6/0
9 assists, 12 turnovers

Rose LAST 4 Games
Total 22.8 points, 6.5 assists, 6.3 rebounds
27pt/4reb/5ast
21/6/9
25/9/4
18/6/8
26 assists, 9 turnovers

There were no UT Martins or Richmonds in his last 4 games either.

Through December
15.5ppg
4.7 rebs
4.4 assists
3.6 turnovers
99 RPI of Opponents

Last 15 Games
17.1 points
4.9 rebounds
5.5 assists
2.1 turnovers
83 RPI of Opponents

Last 12 Games
17.3 points
5.0 rebounds
5.4 assists
1.9 turnovers
79 RPI of Opponents

NCAA Tournament
20.8 points
6.5 rebounds
5.3 assists
1.8 turnovers
31 RPI of Opponents

It is kind of obvious that Rose took a few months to get adjusted to NCAA basketball. Even if you break down the season into two halves, he scored 14.1 points per game in his first 20 games versus 17.3 points per game in his last 20 games.

Watching the games, he was obviously one of the top 3 players in the NCAA by the time the tournament came around. He for sure hadn't figured it out in the first half of the season. It hardly seems fair for you to claim Calspeak brainwashing when the truth was the opposite of that.

My numbers are correct.

In November and December (11 games), Rose averaged 15.5 ppg. The last 11 games of the regular season, he averaged 14.0 ppg.

I'm not arguing that he didn't get better--he clearly did. And obviously (as you show in the numbers in the NCAAt) he turned it up to 11 then.

I'm just noting that the narrative that it "took him a while" to get acclimated to college ball is more of Calspeak than reality. And also played about 29 mpg in the first two months vs. 35+ mpg in the NCAAt.

I suppose it makes sense if you pretend that the NCAA tournament didn't happen and don't count the data from the 6 games as part of his continued development.

In his first 5 games against quality competition (Oklahoma, UConn, Cincinnati, Georgetown, Arizona) he had 20 assists and 24 turnovers. Stats as usual don't tell the whole story. He didn't distribute the ball well, was driving into traffic and getting called for charges or throwing up wild shots.

Again, it is the opposite of Calspeak. He increased his scoring, assists and rebounding while cutting his turnovers in half against far superior competition. He didn't really hit his stride until the last 15 games of the season, including the NCAA tournament. In his first 11 games he had 1 game with less than 2 turnovers. In the NCAA tournament he had 4 games with 1 turnover playing against All Americans and future NBA all stars.

If you look at the player he was when he arrived on campus, the player he was at the end of the NCAA tournament and the player he became as an NBA rookie, it is obvious that it took him most of the year to hit his stride. He sure didn't hit it in the first two months of the season when he was turning it over almost 4 times per game.

I guess it's just a difference on our interpretations of people's statements that it took Rose a while to get caught up to the college game.

Based on I what I saw in person and the fact he was scoring very well and rebounding like crazy, getting "caught up the game" wasn't an issue.

BUT, like you note, he was a turnover machine early in the season, but I think that was more attributable to the fact he wasn't on the same page as the four other starters who had played two years together already. He wasn't up to THEIR speed.

The accurate answer is that it took him a full 5 months to get up to speed, not 2 months. He wasn't close to the same player the first two months as he was when the season ended. At the end of the year he was dominating All Americans and future NBA stars.

I thought the transition started for good right after the UAB game where he had 6 points, 3 assists, 3 turnovers and shot 2-13 from the field and 1-3 from the foul line. He had bad games after that, but he was a different player after that. The stats bear that out as well.

Again, the complete opposite of Calspeak brainwashing. The OP was right and you were wrong to call him out.

(04-20-2017 10:39 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 08:41 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 02:14 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 04:31 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 04:17 PM)Stammers Wrote:  The poster said that it took a few months for him to adjust so you are somewhat right but he is more right than you are.

I THINK you made a mistake in your calculation for the first 4 games. If I did please correct me. He scored 24 points had 6 rebounds and 0 assists against UConn.

Rose 1st 4 Games
Total 19.8 points, 2.3 assists, 5.5 rebounds
17pt/6reb/5ast
21/5/1
17/5/3
24/6/0
9 assists, 12 turnovers

Rose LAST 4 Games
Total 22.8 points, 6.5 assists, 6.3 rebounds
27pt/4reb/5ast
21/6/9
25/9/4
18/6/8
26 assists, 9 turnovers

There were no UT Martins or Richmonds in his last 4 games either.

Through December
15.5ppg
4.7 rebs
4.4 assists
3.6 turnovers
99 RPI of Opponents

Last 15 Games
17.1 points
4.9 rebounds
5.5 assists
2.1 turnovers
83 RPI of Opponents

Last 12 Games
17.3 points
5.0 rebounds
5.4 assists
1.9 turnovers
79 RPI of Opponents

NCAA Tournament
20.8 points
6.5 rebounds
5.3 assists
1.8 turnovers
31 RPI of Opponents

It is kind of obvious that Rose took a few months to get adjusted to NCAA basketball. Even if you break down the season into two halves, he scored 14.1 points per game in his first 20 games versus 17.3 points per game in his last 20 games.

Watching the games, he was obviously one of the top 3 players in the NCAA by the time the tournament came around. He for sure hadn't figured it out in the first half of the season. It hardly seems fair for you to claim Calspeak brainwashing when the truth was the opposite of that.

My numbers are correct.

In November and December (11 games), Rose averaged 15.5 ppg. The last 11 games of the regular season, he averaged 14.0 ppg.

I'm not arguing that he didn't get better--he clearly did. And obviously (as you show in the numbers in the NCAAt) he turned it up to 11 then.

I'm just noting that the narrative that it "took him a while" to get acclimated to college ball is more of Calspeak than reality. And also played about 29 mpg in the first two months vs. 35+ mpg in the NCAAt.

I suppose it makes sense if you pretend that the NCAA tournament didn't happen and don't count the data from the 6 games as part of his continued development.

In his first 5 games against quality competition (Oklahoma, UConn, Cincinnati, Georgetown, Arizona) he had 20 assists and 24 turnovers. Stats as usual don't tell the whole story. He didn't distribute the ball well, was driving into traffic and getting called for charges or throwing up wild shots.

Again, it is the opposite of Calspeak. He increased his scoring, assists and rebounding while cutting his turnovers in half against far superior competition. He didn't really hit his stride until the last 15 games of the season, including the NCAA tournament. In his first 11 games he had 1 game with less than 2 turnovers. In the NCAA tournament he had 4 games with 1 turnover playing against All Americans and future NBA all stars.

If you look at the player he was when he arrived on campus, the player he was at the end of the NCAA tournament and the player he became as an NBA rookie, it is obvious that it took him most of the year to hit his stride. He sure didn't hit it in the first two months of the season when he was turning it over almost 4 times per game.

I guess it's just a difference on our interpretations of people's statements that it took Rose a while to get caught up to the college game.

Based on I what I saw in person and the fact he was scoring very well and rebounding like crazy, getting "caught up the game" wasn't an issue.

BUT, like you note, he was a turnover machine early in the season, but I think that was more attributable to the fact he wasn't on the same page as the four other starters who had played two years together already. He wasn't up to THEIR speed.

The accurate answer is that it took him a full 5 months to get up to speed, not 2 months. He wasn't close to the same player the first two months as he was when the season ended. At the end of the year he was dominating All Americans and future NBA stars.

I thought the transition started for good right after the UAB game where he had 6 points, 3 assists, 3 turnovers and shot 2-13 from the field and 1-3 from the foul line. He had bad games after that, but he was a different player after that. The stats bear that out as well.

Again, the complete opposite of Calspeak brainwashing. The OP was right and you were wrong to call him out.

We just disagree. Oh well.

(04-20-2017 10:23 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 04:00 PM)FUT Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 02:09 PM)Ttaylor Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 01:10 PM)FUT Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 01:06 PM)cscottl1981 Wrote:  What I'm talking about is recruiting strategy...options could include, but aren't limited to:

Mainly recruit Memphis kids no matter the level of talent/baggage.
Only recruit top level Memphis prospects and fill in the rest with studs from elsewhere.
Ignore most of the players in Memphis and go after studs elsewhere.
Try to sign a team full of one and dones.
Sign mainly 4 star guys and hope they stay for 4 years.
Have a coach like Tubby that recruits a certain type of player and tries to coach them up. AKA mainly 3 star guys and JUCOs with the occasional 4 star.

Hire a young, connected, energetic guy who recruits his tail off. Make him hire an ex head coach for Xs and Os and build a fence around Memphis.

Sounds familiar and how did that turn out seven seasons later?

Well Forbes has only been at his current job a couple of years and just made the tournament how is that working out? Josh is not the only young coach out there and he never hired an Xs and Os guy while he was here which was one of my criteria. But just read what you want and ignore the rest.

You think Forbes is young?

He is 14 years younger than Tubby and still a go getter. There are other examples but he sticks out because he would have taken the job for a 1/3 of the price tag.

Rose. Right away you just knew. He was gone at the end of the year.

Yea...So he charged into the lane when there was no lane...lol.
The kid was so athletic he sometimes made it work, and he was so quick to figure out it didn't work like it did in his younger days...lol. Rose was a god.

Cal did good things with him...except he otter not have let him eat the gummy bears.

(04-20-2017 02:46 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Rose. Right away you just knew. He was gone at the end of the year.

Yea...So he charged into the lane when there was no lane...lol.
The kid was so athletic he sometimes made it work, and he was so quick to figure out it didn't work like it did in his younger days...lol. Rose was a god.

Cal did good things with him...except he otter not have let him eat the gummy bears.

His one dunk on one attempt at Memphis madness told me all I needed to know.

Story I heard
The guys on that team like Joey and Antonio where not sure about this shy kid from Chicago. They are all out at the club and as usually happens with that group trouble breaks out and the cops are on the way. Derrick took off running and hopped over an 8 ft fence like he was hopping over a speed bump. Apparently they all stopped and looked at each other and just started smiling, knowing what they had.