(04-18-2017 09:28 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:38 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 10:44 PM)WeatherfordOwl Wrote:  I've seen disappointing performances at the plate over the last 10 years or so, on the mound for approximately the last 5 years, and in the field (with regard to the inexplicable frequency of errors) for the last 2 or 3 years. This is judging against Rice Baseball standards going back to 2003, so it is a difficult criteria. Every year I have read about the outstanding group of new recruits on the way, only to be greeted by a continuation of the slide downhill. Some of this is likely just a return to the Rice athletics norm due to a number of factors beyond the coaches' control. I don't know how much. But it does seem like some things have been going clearly downhill, even accelerating, in the most recent years. One could argue with good reason how difficult it is for any program to remain at the elite level the Rice program had been at for the length of time it was there. But this year something has completely jumped off the tracks. It seems like the athletes have clearly not been performing to their potential, or even as well as they did in high school when it comes to errors in the field. Even the best chief executive begins to look bad when middle management isn't doing its job. And that is a reflection on that executive's ability to attract and retain talent, and their overall business processes.

I think you are right mentioning how difficult it is for any program to remain at an elite level for so long. Even if this is a return to the norm as you put it, you would not expect to go from just missing a 40 win season to barely having double digit wins at this point in the season. Also why do you think these athletes are not performing as well as they did in high school? What could cause talented individuals to consistently regress year after year? Also just to note, the chief executive in athletics would be the AD making the coaches the middle men. So you are saying they are making the AD look bad correct?

1. Each head coach is the CEO of a wholly owned subsidiary.
2. I think we have had a perfect storm of problems this year.
3. it is true that it is hard to maintain an elite level in any sport. See USC and UT in baseball, UCLA in basketball, OU and UT in football. Many others. Not an excuse, though.

Agree with the perfect storm analogy somewhat, but the reality is that you can only patch and paint for so long. The perfect storm this year is when it was completely and totally exposed for the disaster that it has been that folks like owl69 has been explaining for years. For every step forward, there have been two backwards. Simply put we aren't just keeping up with the Jones', we are even in the same city anymore. Drastic measures have been needed for way too long.

Sadly, does anyone see any kind of path forward away from the drain down to D3?

The perfect storm refers to several players either performing beneath their expected level or being unavailable.

The problem with having a legendary coach is that nobody wants to be the one to tell them it is time to move on. The is especially hard with graham, due to his physical conditioni8ng and his unique status at Rice. I think a few years back - maybe 2012? Maybe a year or two later? When the last Omaha trip was well in the rear view mirror, anyway, the AD needed to have a frank discussion with him about how to manage and plan his exit. The last thing in the world any of us wishes is for him to go out a loser, the first in his tenure. But we, the fans, had him on a pedestal. he was the example of how Rice can overcome problems and compete with the big boys, and we would have hung any AD who eased him out. We, the fans, have had a hand in this. who is going to be the guy at Duke to tell Coach K it's been fun, but...?

Coach Graham is still doing the same the job he has always done, and doing it well. But he is not getting the players he was a decade ago, and at least partially this has to be because other coaches are using his age against him.

What to do? We're in it now, have to do something. My opinion? announce that next year is his last, and either get the next HC on staff or start putting out the feelers now.

(04-18-2017 09:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:28 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:38 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 10:44 PM)WeatherfordOwl Wrote:  I've seen disappointing performances at the plate over the last 10 years or so, on the mound for approximately the last 5 years, and in the field (with regard to the inexplicable frequency of errors) for the last 2 or 3 years. This is judging against Rice Baseball standards going back to 2003, so it is a difficult criteria. Every year I have read about the outstanding group of new recruits on the way, only to be greeted by a continuation of the slide downhill. Some of this is likely just a return to the Rice athletics norm due to a number of factors beyond the coaches' control. I don't know how much. But it does seem like some things have been going clearly downhill, even accelerating, in the most recent years. One could argue with good reason how difficult it is for any program to remain at the elite level the Rice program had been at for the length of time it was there. But this year something has completely jumped off the tracks. It seems like the athletes have clearly not been performing to their potential, or even as well as they did in high school when it comes to errors in the field. Even the best chief executive begins to look bad when middle management isn't doing its job. And that is a reflection on that executive's ability to attract and retain talent, and their overall business processes.

I think you are right mentioning how difficult it is for any program to remain at an elite level for so long. Even if this is a return to the norm as you put it, you would not expect to go from just missing a 40 win season to barely having double digit wins at this point in the season. Also why do you think these athletes are not performing as well as they did in high school? What could cause talented individuals to consistently regress year after year? Also just to note, the chief executive in athletics would be the AD making the coaches the middle men. So you are saying they are making the AD look bad correct?

1. Each head coach is the CEO of a wholly owned subsidiary.
2. I think we have had a perfect storm of problems this year.
3. it is true that it is hard to maintain an elite level in any sport. See USC and UT in baseball, UCLA in basketball, OU and UT in football. Many others. Not an excuse, though.

Agree with the perfect storm analogy somewhat, but the reality is that you can only patch and paint for so long. The perfect storm this year is when it was completely and totally exposed for the disaster that it has been that folks like owl69 has been explaining for years. For every step forward, there have been two backwards. Simply put we aren't just keeping up with the Jones', we are even in the same city anymore. Drastic measures have been needed for way too long.

Sadly, does anyone see any kind of path forward away from the drain down to D3?

The perfect storm refers to several players either performing beneath their expected level or being unavailable.

The problem with having a legendary coach is that nobody wants to be the one to tell them it is time to move on. The is especially hard with graham, due to his physical conditioni8ng and his unique status at Rice. I think a few years back - maybe 2012? Maybe a year or two later? When the last Omaha trip was well in the rear view mirror, anyway, the AD needed to have a frank discussion with him about how to manage and plan his exit. The last thing in the world any of us wishes is for him to go out a loser, the first in his tenure. But we, the fans, had him on a pedestal. he was the example of how Rice can overcome problems and compete with the big boys, and we would have hung any AD who eased him out. We, the fans, have had a hand in this. who is going to be the guy at Duke to tell Coach K it's been fun, but...?

Coach Graham is still doing the same the job he has always done, and doing it well. But he is not getting the players he was a decade ago, and at least partially this has to be because other coaches are using his age against him.

What to do? We're in it now, have to do something. My opinion? announce that next year is his last, and either get the next HC on staff or start putting out the feelers now.

If we announced that then had a miracle season and went to Omaha would you still be willing to let him go?

(04-18-2017 09:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:28 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:38 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 10:44 PM)WeatherfordOwl Wrote:  I've seen disappointing performances at the plate over the last 10 years or so, on the mound for approximately the last 5 years, and in the field (with regard to the inexplicable frequency of errors) for the last 2 or 3 years. This is judging against Rice Baseball standards going back to 2003, so it is a difficult criteria. Every year I have read about the outstanding group of new recruits on the way, only to be greeted by a continuation of the slide downhill. Some of this is likely just a return to the Rice athletics norm due to a number of factors beyond the coaches' control. I don't know how much. But it does seem like some things have been going clearly downhill, even accelerating, in the most recent years. One could argue with good reason how difficult it is for any program to remain at the elite level the Rice program had been at for the length of time it was there. But this year something has completely jumped off the tracks. It seems like the athletes have clearly not been performing to their potential, or even as well as they did in high school when it comes to errors in the field. Even the best chief executive begins to look bad when middle management isn't doing its job. And that is a reflection on that executive's ability to attract and retain talent, and their overall business processes.

I think you are right mentioning how difficult it is for any program to remain at an elite level for so long. Even if this is a return to the norm as you put it, you would not expect to go from just missing a 40 win season to barely having double digit wins at this point in the season. Also why do you think these athletes are not performing as well as they did in high school? What could cause talented individuals to consistently regress year after year? Also just to note, the chief executive in athletics would be the AD making the coaches the middle men. So you are saying they are making the AD look bad correct?

1. Each head coach is the CEO of a wholly owned subsidiary.
2. I think we have had a perfect storm of problems this year.
3. it is true that it is hard to maintain an elite level in any sport. See USC and UT in baseball, UCLA in basketball, OU and UT in football. Many others. Not an excuse, though.

Agree with the perfect storm analogy somewhat, but the reality is that you can only patch and paint for so long. The perfect storm this year is when it was completely and totally exposed for the disaster that it has been that folks like owl69 has been explaining for years. For every step forward, there have been two backwards. Simply put we aren't just keeping up with the Jones', we are even in the same city anymore. Drastic measures have been needed for way too long.

Sadly, does anyone see any kind of path forward away from the drain down to D3?

The perfect storm refers to several players either performing beneath their expected level or being unavailable.

The problem with having a legendary coach is that nobody wants to be the one to tell them it is time to move on. The is especially hard with graham, due to his physical conditioni8ng and his unique status at Rice. I think a few years back - maybe 2012? Maybe a year or two later? When the last Omaha trip was well in the rear view mirror, anyway, the AD needed to have a frank discussion with him about how to manage and plan his exit. The last thing in the world any of us wishes is for him to go out a loser, the first in his tenure. But we, the fans, had him on a pedestal. he was the example of how Rice can overcome problems and compete with the big boys, and we would have hung any AD who eased him out. We, the fans, have had a hand in this. who is going to be the guy at Duke to tell Coach K it's been fun, but...?

Coach Graham is still doing the same the job he has always done, and doing it well. But he is not getting the players he was a decade ago, and at least partially this has to be because other coaches are using his age against him.

What to do? We're in it now, have to do something. My opinion? announce that next year is his last, and either get the next HC on staff or start putting out the feelers now.

Buddy, that's the recommendation I proposed several weeks ago....and what I will suggest to Dr. K when I next speak with him (certainly before the end of this season). BTW, if and when we announce that next year will be The OG's last, we will have a plethora of candidates putting their names in the hat-- no need to put out feelers (unless there is a specific head coach out there we want to target).

(04-18-2017 10:00 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:28 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:38 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  I think you are right mentioning how difficult it is for any program to remain at an elite level for so long. Even if this is a return to the norm as you put it, you would not expect to go from just missing a 40 win season to barely having double digit wins at this point in the season. Also why do you think these athletes are not performing as well as they did in high school? What could cause talented individuals to consistently regress year after year? Also just to note, the chief executive in athletics would be the AD making the coaches the middle men. So you are saying they are making the AD look bad correct?

1. Each head coach is the CEO of a wholly owned subsidiary.
2. I think we have had a perfect storm of problems this year.
3. it is true that it is hard to maintain an elite level in any sport. See USC and UT in baseball, UCLA in basketball, OU and UT in football. Many others. Not an excuse, though.

Agree with the perfect storm analogy somewhat, but the reality is that you can only patch and paint for so long. The perfect storm this year is when it was completely and totally exposed for the disaster that it has been that folks like owl69 has been explaining for years. For every step forward, there have been two backwards. Simply put we aren't just keeping up with the Jones', we are even in the same city anymore. Drastic measures have been needed for way too long.

Sadly, does anyone see any kind of path forward away from the drain down to D3?

The perfect storm refers to several players either performing beneath their expected level or being unavailable.

The problem with having a legendary coach is that nobody wants to be the one to tell them it is time to move on. The is especially hard with graham, due to his physical conditioni8ng and his unique status at Rice. I think a few years back - maybe 2012? Maybe a year or two later? When the last Omaha trip was well in the rear view mirror, anyway, the AD needed to have a frank discussion with him about how to manage and plan his exit. The last thing in the world any of us wishes is for him to go out a loser, the first in his tenure. But we, the fans, had him on a pedestal. he was the example of how Rice can overcome problems and compete with the big boys, and we would have hung any AD who eased him out. We, the fans, have had a hand in this. who is going to be the guy at Duke to tell Coach K it's been fun, but...?

Coach Graham is still doing the same the job he has always done, and doing it well. But he is not getting the players he was a decade ago, and at least partially this has to be because other coaches are using his age against him.

What to do? We're in it now, have to do something. My opinion? announce that next year is his last, and either get the next HC on staff or start putting out the feelers now.

If we announced that then had a miracle season and went to Omaha would you still be willing to let him go?

First off, a 180 degree turnaround in fortune next year would not be a miracle, especially with next year's recruitment class. Second, even if we went to Omaha next season, I would still stick with plans to move on...and, quite honestly, I think Wayne would be more comfortable going out in that scenario.

(04-18-2017 10:00 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:28 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:38 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  I think you are right mentioning how difficult it is for any program to remain at an elite level for so long. Even if this is a return to the norm as you put it, you would not expect to go from just missing a 40 win season to barely having double digit wins at this point in the season. Also why do you think these athletes are not performing as well as they did in high school? What could cause talented individuals to consistently regress year after year? Also just to note, the chief executive in athletics would be the AD making the coaches the middle men. So you are saying they are making the AD look bad correct?

1. Each head coach is the CEO of a wholly owned subsidiary.
2. I think we have had a perfect storm of problems this year.
3. it is true that it is hard to maintain an elite level in any sport. See USC and UT in baseball, UCLA in basketball, OU and UT in football. Many others. Not an excuse, though.

Agree with the perfect storm analogy somewhat, but the reality is that you can only patch and paint for so long. The perfect storm this year is when it was completely and totally exposed for the disaster that it has been that folks like owl69 has been explaining for years. For every step forward, there have been two backwards. Simply put we aren't just keeping up with the Jones', we are even in the same city anymore. Drastic measures have been needed for way too long.
Sadly, does anyone see any kind of path forward away from the drain down to D3?

The perfect storm refers to several players either performing beneath their expected level or being unavailable.
The problem with having a legendary coach is that nobody wants to be the one to tell them it is time to move on. The is especially hard with graham, due to his physical conditioni8ng and his unique status at Rice. I think a few years back - maybe 2012? Maybe a year or two later? When the last Omaha trip was well in the rear view mirror, anyway, the AD needed to have a frank discussion with him about how to manage and plan his exit. The last thing in the world any of us wishes is for him to go out a loser, the first in his tenure. But we, the fans, had him on a pedestal. he was the example of how Rice can overcome problems and compete with the big boys, and we would have hung any AD who eased him out. We, the fans, have had a hand in this. who is going to be the guy at Duke to tell Coach K it's been fun, but...?
Coach Graham is still doing the same the job he has always done, and doing it well. But he is not getting the players he was a decade ago, and at least partially this has to be because other coaches are using his age against him.
What to do? We're in it now, have to do something. My opinion? announce that next year is his last, and either get the next HC on staff or start putting out the feelers now.

If we announced that then had a miracle season and went to Omaha would you still be willing to let him go?

Yes, because the decision is about the long-term good of the program, not one year.

(04-17-2017 05:55 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:40 PM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:32 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:20 PM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:11 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  Coach K calls a full team meeting at his house and tells players they can't wear the Duke D until they better compete and he's applauded. Herman shows up at UofH and chains up the locker room until the players earn they're way back in and it makes him a refreshing change of culture. Coach Graham sends home players that won't play anyway when the whole team clearly isnt competing hard enough and he's old, senile and losing control.

Give it a rest. He should have done that a month ago. The only shame is he was too nice to these kids all fall and through the early part of the season because nobody wanted to hurt there feelings. Now it's over. Too late. Nice try.

Well they clearly would play otherwise he would not have brought something up based on their performance. That has not happened here at Rice either. When have you ever heard of a player being sent home based on a performance? Also your coach comparisons are taking place in the off season. This is mid season when the pressure to perform is higher than it has been. Say the season is over all you want but they are still playing for a spot to get into the conference tournament. This is actual panic. Also no one in this thread has suggested anything about Graham's age or mental state. You are the one coming up with that on your own.

A few things:
1. Duke's story was mid year this year. Check it out before popping off.
2. Before you arrived here, this did happen. Just because you don't know about it and some whiney poster didn't run to the boards doesn't mean it never did.
3. Seeing as how no program at Rice is as good as those programs (wait except baseball the past 22 years) maybe the other programs should do some of this.
4. I'm not arguing it's not panic. I'm saying they should have panicked a month ago and now is too late. So relax, play baseball and maybe they'll get lucky. Otherwise, try to enjoy a couple more weeks of baseball and wait til next year. Panic now is futile. So is creating drama on these message boards.

Well first off coach K did that while the interim coach (Jeff Capel) was serving in his absence due to a back surgery so that is a bit of a different situation. Also before I arrived here suggests that you know when I "arrived" which you do not and when has this happened before? The drama was not created here either. These are facts that came from a situation that happened Sunday.

1. The point of the story is he took away their Duke branded equipment until they earned it back. Not where the meeting was.
2. Every time you post there is a little number we can all see that increases saying how many times you posted. Right by that, it says when you joined. At least with this username. Before that, this happened a couple times before.
3. You posting locker room drama is creating unnecessary additional drama. When you do so you create new drama. You don't take locker room talk or locker room drama out of the locker room. If it's bad enough, and you have to, you take it to administration or the police. You don't post locker room drama on message boards. Ever. Therefore, I won't share stories here from before you were born. If you do know this team as well as you say you do...you should know better.

Where it took place had nothing to do with what I was saying. This is not comparing apples to apples. Also when did you get all high and mighty on defending the players? Last I checked you accused them all of being soft. I don't see how you sharing your stories on here would be relevant either. Things like this come out of the locker room because the players are sick of being ridiculed from the staff and fans alike. They have no outlet. Can't wait to read your follow up saying "whatever makes you and your buddies feel better" as I have seen you do to other users. You are disconnected.

(04-18-2017 10:04 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 10:00 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:28 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 08:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  1. Each head coach is the CEO of a wholly owned subsidiary.
2. I think we have had a perfect storm of problems this year.
3. it is true that it is hard to maintain an elite level in any sport. See USC and UT in baseball, UCLA in basketball, OU and UT in football. Many others. Not an excuse, though.

Agree with the perfect storm analogy somewhat, but the reality is that you can only patch and paint for so long. The perfect storm this year is when it was completely and totally exposed for the disaster that it has been that folks like owl69 has been explaining for years. For every step forward, there have been two backwards. Simply put we aren't just keeping up with the Jones', we are even in the same city anymore. Drastic measures have been needed for way too long.

Sadly, does anyone see any kind of path forward away from the drain down to D3?

The perfect storm refers to several players either performing beneath their expected level or being unavailable.

The problem with having a legendary coach is that nobody wants to be the one to tell them it is time to move on. The is especially hard with graham, due to his physical conditioni8ng and his unique status at Rice. I think a few years back - maybe 2012? Maybe a year or two later? When the last Omaha trip was well in the rear view mirror, anyway, the AD needed to have a frank discussion with him about how to manage and plan his exit. The last thing in the world any of us wishes is for him to go out a loser, the first in his tenure. But we, the fans, had him on a pedestal. he was the example of how Rice can overcome problems and compete with the big boys, and we would have hung any AD who eased him out. We, the fans, have had a hand in this. who is going to be the guy at Duke to tell Coach K it's been fun, but...?

Coach Graham is still doing the same the job he has always done, and doing it well. But he is not getting the players he was a decade ago, and at least partially this has to be because other coaches are using his age against him.

What to do? We're in it now, have to do something. My opinion? announce that next year is his last, and either get the next HC on staff or start putting out the feelers now.

If we announced that then had a miracle season and went to Omaha would you still be willing to let him go?

First off, a 180 degree turnaround in fortune next year would not be a miracle, especially with next year's recruitment class. Second, even if we went to Omaha next season, I would still stick with plans to move on...and, quite honestly, I think Wayne would be more comfortable going out in that scenario.

How many players are in that class? Assuming they all turn out to be studs right out of the gate (which would be a miracle) they still would not create enough team depth in pitching or even through the lineup to turn us into an Omaha team on paper. If they did in fact somehow get us to Omaha then yes that is a miracle after a season like this one. However I could see the argument being that Graham made it to Omaha with these kids as freshman..imagine what he could do with them next year. Which honestly I could understand that argument. I am just wondering everyone's stance on this because if you are willing to get rid of someone after next year why wait that long? I'm either way on this. Just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

(04-18-2017 10:16 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 10:04 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 10:00 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:28 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  Agree with the perfect storm analogy somewhat, but the reality is that you can only patch and paint for so long. The perfect storm this year is when it was completely and totally exposed for the disaster that it has been that folks like owl69 has been explaining for years. For every step forward, there have been two backwards. Simply put we aren't just keeping up with the Jones', we are even in the same city anymore. Drastic measures have been needed for way too long.

Sadly, does anyone see any kind of path forward away from the drain down to D3?

The perfect storm refers to several players either performing beneath their expected level or being unavailable.

The problem with having a legendary coach is that nobody wants to be the one to tell them it is time to move on. The is especially hard with graham, due to his physical conditioni8ng and his unique status at Rice. I think a few years back - maybe 2012? Maybe a year or two later? When the last Omaha trip was well in the rear view mirror, anyway, the AD needed to have a frank discussion with him about how to manage and plan his exit. The last thing in the world any of us wishes is for him to go out a loser, the first in his tenure. But we, the fans, had him on a pedestal. he was the example of how Rice can overcome problems and compete with the big boys, and we would have hung any AD who eased him out. We, the fans, have had a hand in this. who is going to be the guy at Duke to tell Coach K it's been fun, but...?

Coach Graham is still doing the same the job he has always done, and doing it well. But he is not getting the players he was a decade ago, and at least partially this has to be because other coaches are using his age against him.

What to do? We're in it now, have to do something. My opinion? announce that next year is his last, and either get the next HC on staff or start putting out the feelers now.

If we announced that then had a miracle season and went to Omaha would you still be willing to let him go?

First off, a 180 degree turnaround in fortune next year would not be a miracle, especially with next year's recruitment class. Second, even if we went to Omaha next season, I would still stick with plans to move on...and, quite honestly, I think Wayne would be more comfortable going out in that scenario.

How many players are in that class? Assuming they all turn out to be studs right out of the gate (which would be a miracle) they still would not create enough team depth in pitching or even through the lineup to turn us into an Omaha team on paper. If they did in fact somehow get us to Omaha then yes that is a miracle after a season like this one. However I could see the argument being that Graham made it to Omaha with these kids as freshman..imagine what he could do with them next year. Which honestly I could understand that argument. I am just wondering everyone's stance on this because if you are willing to get rid of someone after next year why wait that long? I'm either way on this. Just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

I am for letting Coach have next year.

If I understand correctly, his contract is through next year. Saves the bad press of releasing him, and, gives him a chance to go out a winner.

(04-18-2017 09:39 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Not seeing the connection between bad baseball and D3.

To be honest, the only references I ever see to Rice potentially dropping to D3 are here on the Parliament. I'm not sure why it's ever a topic of discussion, unless someone has inside knowledge of discussions by the BOT or the AD's office?

I mean it would be good to be able to head off or otherwise address a movement to change our status to D3 in advance, but I kind of assume this is all from Parliament members worried about a drop down (or in some cases advocating it), not from any real planning on the part of the University.

(04-18-2017 11:16 AM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:39 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Not seeing the connection between bad baseball and D3.

To be honest, the only references I ever see to Rice potentially dropping to D3 are here on the Parliament. I'm not sure why it's ever a topic of discussion, unless someone has inside knowledge of discussions by the BOT or the AD's office?

I mean it would be good to be able to head off or otherwise address a movement to change our status to D3 in advance, but I kind of assume this is all from Parliament members worried about a drop down (or in some cases advocating it), not from any real planning on the part of the University.

I don't think it has ever been mentioned anywhere but here either. I think what some are fearing is that baseball has kept the athletics afloat over the past 20+ years. Granted I understand some of our other programs have had great years though it has not been as consistent. I guess the fear may be that if baseball drops off that it will bump us down from D1.

A couple years back I felt it was time for the AD to talk with Wayne about a plan for his eventual retirement. My thinking was that the program had been slowly trending downward for a few years, and it was time to bring in someone younger. Personally, my preference would be for Wayne to retire at the end of this season, but my guess is he wants to continue coaching. I think most posters feel we need to at least let Wayne finish out his contract - thru next season. I guess I'm okay with that. Regarding having his successor brought in to coach with him next year, I don't see that working. My gut tells me it's not in Wayne's DNA to welcome in and mentor his eventual replacement. I'm resigned to "hoping for the best" this year and next - then having a new regime brought in to re-build.

(04-18-2017 10:10 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:55 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:40 PM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:32 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:20 PM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  Well they clearly would play otherwise he would not have brought something up based on their performance. That has not happened here at Rice either. When have you ever heard of a player being sent home based on a performance? Also your coach comparisons are taking place in the off season. This is mid season when the pressure to perform is higher than it has been. Say the season is over all you want but they are still playing for a spot to get into the conference tournament. This is actual panic. Also no one in this thread has suggested anything about Graham's age or mental state. You are the one coming up with that on your own.

A few things:
1. Duke's story was mid year this year. Check it out before popping off.
2. Before you arrived here, this did happen. Just because you don't know about it and some whiney poster didn't run to the boards doesn't mean it never did.
3. Seeing as how no program at Rice is as good as those programs (wait except baseball the past 22 years) maybe the other programs should do some of this.
4. I'm not arguing it's not panic. I'm saying they should have panicked a month ago and now is too late. So relax, play baseball and maybe they'll get lucky. Otherwise, try to enjoy a couple more weeks of baseball and wait til next year. Panic now is futile. So is creating drama on these message boards.

Well first off coach K did that while the interim coach (Jeff Capel) was serving in his absence due to a back surgery so that is a bit of a different situation. Also before I arrived here suggests that you know when I "arrived" which you do not and when has this happened before? The drama was not created here either. These are facts that came from a situation that happened Sunday.

1. The point of the story is he took away their Duke branded equipment until they earned it back. Not where the meeting was.
2. Every time you post there is a little number we can all see that increases saying how many times you posted. Right by that, it says when you joined. At least with this username. Before that, this happened a couple times before.
3. You posting locker room drama is creating unnecessary additional drama. When you do so you create new drama. You don't take locker room talk or locker room drama out of the locker room. If it's bad enough, and you have to, you take it to administration or the police. You don't post locker room drama on message boards. Ever. Therefore, I won't share stories here from before you were born. If you do know this team as well as you say you do...you should know better.

Where it took place had nothing to do with what I was saying. This is not comparing apples to apples. Also when did you get all high and mighty on defending the players? Last I checked you accused them all of being soft. I don't see how you sharing your stories on here would be relevant either. Things like this come out of the locker room because the players are sick of being ridiculed from the staff and fans alike. They have no outlet. Can't wait to read your follow up saying "whatever makes you and your buddies feel better" as I have seen you do to other users. You are disconnected.

Nothing about my posts defend anyone. I'm stating this situation isnt as uncommon as youe posts stated. Also, the players whining to you about this situation, and you posting it on a public message board says all we need to know about the lack of respect and over all weak intestinal fortitude of the individuals associated with this program this year. Every one of them. The results of this year are due to that. Last, thank goodness I'm disconnected from this pathetic season. That might be the best compliment I've received on these boards.

(04-18-2017 10:02 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What to do? We're in it now, have to do something. My opinion? announce that next year is his last, and either get the next HC on staff or start putting out the feelers now.

Buddy, that's the recommendation I proposed several weeks ago....and what I will suggest to Dr. K when I next speak with him (certainly before the end of this season). BTW, if and when we announce that next year will be The OG's last, we will have a plethora of candidates putting their names in the hat-- no need to put out feelers (unless there is a specific head coach out there we want to target).

I also have a concern about attracting the right coach to come in and immediately sit in the dugout as coach-in-waiting. I think Rice needs to hire someone that has proven they can be a D1 head coach and is an up-and-comer. I don't see that person wanting to come in as coach-in-waiting. Likewise, I don't see someone making an outreach a year in advance that they'll be here next year. That means that you'll invite competing offers and I don't see their current employer or team being excited by that news. Whenever Wayne Graham steps aside, I think that's when you make the hire and make the transition clean.

As much as it pains me, I think the combination of a poor season and Wayne Graham's age makes the recruiting environment extremely difficult... how do you recruit to rebuild when it's clear that the coach won't be there more than a year or two? As long as Rice was winning championships and at least coming close to going to Omaha, I don't think that recruiting barrier is there... I think players would be comfortable knowing they were playing for a strong team, great University, and if the coach left, they would be able to attract a new one. Even one season like this seems to change that calculus though (and I know that should not affect next year's recruits, but it will probably have a big effect on the following year's recruiting).

(04-18-2017 12:41 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 10:02 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 09:46 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  What to do? We're in it now, have to do something. My opinion? announce that next year is his last, and either get the next HC on staff or start putting out the feelers now.

Buddy, that's the recommendation I proposed several weeks ago....and what I will suggest to Dr. K when I next speak with him (certainly before the end of this season). BTW, if and when we announce that next year will be The OG's last, we will have a plethora of candidates putting their names in the hat-- no need to put out feelers (unless there is a specific head coach out there we want to target).

I also have a concern about attracting the right coach to come in and immediately sit in the dugout as coach-in-waiting. I think Rice needs to hire someone that has proven they can be a D1 head coach and is an up-and-comer. I don't see that person wanting to come in as coach-in-waiting. Likewise, I don't see someone making an outreach a year in advance that they'll be here next year. That means that you'll invite competing offers and I don't see their current employer or team being excited by that news. Whenever Wayne Graham steps aside, I think that's when you make the hire and make the transition clean.

As much as it pains me, I think the combination of a poor season and Wayne Graham's age makes the recruiting environment extremely difficult... how do you recruit to rebuild when it's clear that the coach won't be there more than a year or two? As long as Rice was winning championships and at least coming close to going to Omaha, I don't think that recruiting barrier is there... I think players would be comfortable knowing they were playing for a strong team, great University, and if the coach left, they would be able to attract a new one. Even one season like this seems to change that calculus though (and I know that should not affect next year's recruits, but it will probably have a big effect on the following year's recruiting).

Eh, I mean I think as long as the fundamentals of the program remain strong (facilities, funding, scheduling, etc.), any further fall in recruiting would be ephemeral.

Actually, assuming a good hire, I think we will see an uptick in recruiting no matter whether we went .400 or .800 the season before.

(04-18-2017 12:34 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 10:10 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:55 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:40 PM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:32 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  A few things:
1. Duke's story was mid year this year. Check it out before popping off.
2. Before you arrived here, this did happen. Just because you don't know about it and some whiney poster didn't run to the boards doesn't mean it never did.
3. Seeing as how no program at Rice is as good as those programs (wait except baseball the past 22 years) maybe the other programs should do some of this.
4. I'm not arguing it's not panic. I'm saying they should have panicked a month ago and now is too late. So relax, play baseball and maybe they'll get lucky. Otherwise, try to enjoy a couple more weeks of baseball and wait til next year. Panic now is futile. So is creating drama on these message boards.

Well first off coach K did that while the interim coach (Jeff Capel) was serving in his absence due to a back surgery so that is a bit of a different situation. Also before I arrived here suggests that you know when I "arrived" which you do not and when has this happened before? The drama was not created here either. These are facts that came from a situation that happened Sunday.

1. The point of the story is he took away their Duke branded equipment until they earned it back. Not where the meeting was.
2. Every time you post there is a little number we can all see that increases saying how many times you posted. Right by that, it says when you joined. At least with this username. Before that, this happened a couple times before.
3. You posting locker room drama is creating unnecessary additional drama. When you do so you create new drama. You don't take locker room talk or locker room drama out of the locker room. If it's bad enough, and you have to, you take it to administration or the police. You don't post locker room drama on message boards. Ever. Therefore, I won't share stories here from before you were born. If you do know this team as well as you say you do...you should know better.

Where it took place had nothing to do with what I was saying. This is not comparing apples to apples. Also when did you get all high and mighty on defending the players? Last I checked you accused them all of being soft. I don't see how you sharing your stories on here would be relevant either. Things like this come out of the locker room because the players are sick of being ridiculed from the staff and fans alike. They have no outlet. Can't wait to read your follow up saying "whatever makes you and your buddies feel better" as I have seen you do to other users. You are disconnected.

Nothing about my posts defend anyone. I'm stating this situation isnt as uncommon as youe posts stated. Also, the players whining to you about this situation, and you posting it on a public message board says all we need to know about the lack of respect and over all weak intestinal fortitude of the individuals associated with this program this year. Every one of them. The results of this year are due to that. Last, thank goodness I'm disconnected from this pathetic season. That might be the best compliment I've received on these boards.

Hmmm. Intestinal fortitude is an interesting choice of words. That's a coach Graham phrase if I've ever heard it. Also I am glad that I could give you such a compliment. I hope it made your day.

(04-18-2017 03:09 PM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 12:34 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(04-18-2017 10:10 AM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:55 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:40 PM)DirtyBirds52 Wrote:  Well first off coach K did that while the interim coach (Jeff Capel) was serving in his absence due to a back surgery so that is a bit of a different situation. Also before I arrived here suggests that you know when I "arrived" which you do not and when has this happened before? The drama was not created here either. These are facts that came from a situation that happened Sunday.

1. The point of the story is he took away their Duke branded equipment until they earned it back. Not where the meeting was.
2. Every time you post there is a little number we can all see that increases saying how many times you posted. Right by that, it says when you joined. At least with this username. Before that, this happened a couple times before.
3. You posting locker room drama is creating unnecessary additional drama. When you do so you create new drama. You don't take locker room talk or locker room drama out of the locker room. If it's bad enough, and you have to, you take it to administration or the police. You don't post locker room drama on message boards. Ever. Therefore, I won't share stories here from before you were born. If you do know this team as well as you say you do...you should know better.

Where it took place had nothing to do with what I was saying. This is not comparing apples to apples. Also when did you get all high and mighty on defending the players? Last I checked you accused them all of being soft. I don't see how you sharing your stories on here would be relevant either. Things like this come out of the locker room because the players are sick of being ridiculed from the staff and fans alike. They have no outlet. Can't wait to read your follow up saying "whatever makes you and your buddies feel better" as I have seen you do to other users. You are disconnected.

Nothing about my posts defend anyone. I'm stating this situation isnt as uncommon as youe posts stated. Also, the players whining to you about this situation, and you posting it on a public message board says all we need to know about the lack of respect and over all weak intestinal fortitude of the individuals associated with this program this year. Every one of them. The results of this year are due to that. Last, thank goodness I'm disconnected from this pathetic season. That might be the best compliment I've received on these boards.

Hmmm. Intestinal fortitude is an interesting choice of words. That's a coach Graham phrase if I've ever heard it. Also I am glad that I could give you such a compliment. I hope it made your day.

Interesting indeed ain't it. While I appreciate the compliments, words don't make my day. Wins do.