(04-17-2017 09:11 AM)TOGC Wrote: How are we going to be weaker at the five? Chad Rykhoek was the only legit five on the team and he had 4.1 ppg and 1.9 rpg.
Azab could probably do that. And if we pick up Haruna, that's two legit big men even if they are prospects.
In all fairness, Azab averaged 8 and 6 in HIGH SCHOOL and that was in the second lowest division in Illinois Hoops.
Hell, Jake McDowell averaged 12 ppg in high school.
Nick King went for 24 and 17. Ferro Hall was 15 and 10 at WSHS. Nick Marshall went for 16 and 11.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 09:28 AM by salukiblue.)
How in the world can anyone be projecting we are better or worse at any position? 99% of the people here have never heard of, much less seen, any of these players that we've signed other than highlight tapes. There will be plenty of minutes at every position, so someone will score points, get rebounds and make assists. Will that mean we are a better team? At this point no one can make any type of reasonable judgment based on a list of names and a few highlight reels.
I think there are going to be some in for a very rude awakening this season, and I hope I'm dead wrong and have to come back to this thread to admit my error.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 09:32 AM by SpiderMan79x.)
(04-17-2017 09:31 AM)SpiderMan79x Wrote: How in the world can anyone be projecting we are better or worse? 99% of the people here have never heard of, much less seen, any of these players that we've signed other than highlight tapes. There will be plenty of minutes at every position, so someone will score points, get rebounds and make assists. Will that mean we are a better team? At this point no one can make any type of reasonable judgment based on a list of names and a few highlight reels.
I think there are going to be some in for a very rude awakening this season, and I hope I'm dead wrong and have to come back to this thread to admit my error.
I guess you are new to the game.
Can you predict what (in the greatest likelihood) what the weather in Memphis will be on June 30th? If someone thinks that it could be 70 for the high, would they be bucking historical (and common sense) trends?
Same for players.
Just as we can generally predict the top 5 players in the NBA draft will have more all star game appearances than the first five selected in the second round (STARS BABY), there is a mountain of info that gives us general guidance about what one can expect.
Generally, there are a couple maxims:
1) A kid will NOT have better frosh college stats than senior high school stats
2) A kid will NOT have comparable JUCO stats to D1, especially at upper D1 level schools. (best case scenario is half of their JUCO output at the D1 level).
3) A kid transferring UP in competition from low D1 to high D1 won't match stats.
Once you can recognize those things, you can begin to get an idea of how a team's fortunes begin to take place.
(04-16-2017 07:05 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: It would be prudent, IMO, to brace for losing the most games since Iba's last season. Our current team is made up of JUCOs, three 3* star freshmen, a project (Azab), two returnees with heart but limited talent, and lead by a coach who has won only one NCAA tourney game in ten years and lost the last two games by margins not seen in decades.
Wow! Talk about a negative post! I sure don't share your opinion and look forward to seeing you proved wrong when the games are actually played. This team will play better defense than last year, be more athletic, and play more as at team. i see it actually winning more games than last year.
I see it the same way. Getting more excited and optimistic as players come on board.
I am excited about the next season. I will make no claims about w-l records but think I recognize a turning point.
I think Tubby has done enough recruiting wise if he get Darrington to quell those worries for this season, but he still needs to mold this group into a team that improves...If this team implodes at the end of the year as well Tubby should be on the hot seat
If that happens again I myself would not give him another year. At this level and with this much at stake, two in a row would be considered a trend and not worth seeing if 3 in a row is possible.
(04-17-2017 09:31 AM)SpiderMan79x Wrote: How in the world can anyone be projecting we are better or worse? 99% of the people here have never heard of, much less seen, any of these players that we've signed other than highlight tapes. There will be plenty of minutes at every position, so someone will score points, get rebounds and make assists. Will that mean we are a better team? At this point no one can make any type of reasonable judgment based on a list of names and a few highlight reels.
I think there are going to be some in for a very rude awakening this season, and I hope I'm dead wrong and have to come back to this thread to admit my error.
I guess you are new to the game.
Can you predict what (in the greatest likelihood) what the weather in Memphis will be on June 30th? If someone thinks that it could be 70 for the high, would they be bucking historical (and common sense) trends?
Same for players.
Just as we can generally predict the top 5 players in the NBA draft will have more all star game appearances than the first five selected in the second round (STARS BABY), there is a mountain of info that gives us general guidance about what one can expect.
Generally, there are a couple maxims:
1) A kid will NOT have better frosh college stats than senior high school stats
2) A kid will NOT have comparable JUCO stats to D1, especially at upper D1 level schools. (best case scenario is half of their JUCO output at the D1 level).
3) A kid transferring UP in competition from low D1 to high D1 won't match stats.
Once you can recognize those things, you can begin to get an idea of how a team's fortunes begin to take place.
What we need to have happen is a lot of exceptions........
(04-17-2017 09:31 AM)SpiderMan79x Wrote: How in the world can anyone be projecting we are better or worse? 99% of the people here have never heard of, much less seen, any of these players that we've signed other than highlight tapes. There will be plenty of minutes at every position, so someone will score points, get rebounds and make assists. Will that mean we are a better team? At this point no one can make any type of reasonable judgment based on a list of names and a few highlight reels.
I think there are going to be some in for a very rude awakening this season, and I hope I'm dead wrong and have to come back to this thread to admit my error.
I guess you are new to the game.
Can you predict what (in the greatest likelihood) what the weather in Memphis will be on June 30th? If someone thinks that it could be 70 for the high, would they be bucking historical (and common sense) trends?
Same for players.
Just as we can generally predict the top 5 players in the NBA draft will have more all star game appearances than the first five selected in the second round (STARS BABY), there is a mountain of info that gives us general guidance about what one can expect.
Generally, there are a couple maxims:
1) A kid will NOT have better frosh college stats than senior high school stats
2) A kid will NOT have comparable JUCO stats to D1, especially at upper D1 level schools. (best case scenario is half of their JUCO output at the D1 level).
3) A kid transferring UP in competition from low D1 to high D1 won't match stats.
Once you can recognize those things, you can begin to get an idea of how a team's fortunes begin to take place.
What we need to have happen is a lot of exceptions........
If Jeremiah can play like his mix tape...(since ALL the new guys are expected to live up to them)
So, our 3 is going to be better than averaging 12 and 8. I'm having a hard time with that...
We have 0 back up point guards, but our backup is going to be better than last year when we finally get one signed regardless of who it is. I do agree, it's hard to have less production than what we got last year.
There's so many unknowns that's it hard for me to assume anything. I'm just not expecting much out of Azab because a) his stats aren't really what they should be in high school and b) he hasn't played yet...
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 10:13 AM by Dylan.)
(04-17-2017 10:12 AM)Dylan Wrote: So, our 3 is going to be better than averaging 12 and 8. I'm having a hard time with that...
We have 0 back up point guards, but our backup is going to be better than last year when we finally get one signed regardless of who it is. I do agree, it's hard to have less production than what we got last year.
There's so many unknowns that's it hard for me to assume anything. I'm just not expecting much out of Azab because a) his stats aren't really what they should be in high school and b) he hasn't played yet...
We don't have a three, unless Nickleberry is put there.
We only have three guards and certainly Brewton and Martin cannot play the three.
Johnson could, but with the lack of depth at the guard, he won't spend much time at the three.
Azab and Enoh can't play the three. Thornton is 6'7 230--certainly not an ideal three.
Rivers played the 4/5 last year. I didn't see a "three" skill set in him.
That leaves Davenport. Shoots in the mid 20% from three. He was a PF in JUCO. I guess, by default, he'll have to be the three.
(04-16-2017 07:30 AM)SouthernBlue Wrote: Wow! Talk about a negative post! I sure don't share your opinion and look forward to seeing you proved wrong when the games are actually played. This team will play better defense than last year, be more athletic, and play more as at team. i see it actually winning more games than last year.
I see it the same way. Getting more excited and optimistic as players come on board.
I am excited about the next season. I will make no claims about w-l records but think I recognize a turning point.
I think Tubby has done enough recruiting wise if he get Darrington to quell those worries for this season, but he still needs to mold this group into a team that improves...If this team implodes at the end of the year as well Tubby should be on the hot seat
If that happens again I myself would not give him another year. At this level and with this much at stake, two in a row would be considered a trend and not worth seeing if 3 in a row is possible.
It will be up to the big boosters, but I will not tolerate a losing record and - FWIW - I will take action of some sort to express my dissatisfaction. Tubby is on the clock and he will be held accountable at least by me (a little cog in the great wheel).
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2017 10:36 AM by Tiger1983.)
(04-17-2017 09:11 AM)TOGC Wrote: How are we going to be weaker at the five? Chad Rykhoek was the only legit five on the team and he had 4.1 ppg and 1.9 rpg.
Azab could probably do that. And if we pick up Haruna, that's two legit big men even if they are prospects.
(04-17-2017 08:52 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: Goal: Reach the NCAA Tourney and win games (our goal every year).
Last year we failed to reach our goal. What must change for us to reach our goal next season?
Below is my way of analyzing to derive an answer to the above question. It is not a mathematical formula, but used for roughly framing the elements required to improve next year.
Improvement = (talent in - talent out) + (experience in - experience out) + (net player intangibles [ie, physical growth, S & C, team chemistry]) + (net coaching ability).
IMO, greater weight should be given to talent. Coaches, like players, are subject to improvement. Tubby, for example, may correct his errors from last year like establishing a S&C program quickly and developing a bench.
I believe we will have less overall talent and less overall experience next season than last season. The best hope for improvement is the team gels and Tubby coaches up the team (eg, avoids slumps and soul crushing defeats).
I think the prospects for improvement are dim and we will fall well short of our goal and perhaps experience the worse season in over 43 years.
Interesting equation. I like it. Put some algebraic factors with it and we're good to go.
Not sure how you figure less experience though. Even with the turnover we've had this year, think back to last year. Dedric had a year of starting experience, and Markel had 2 years of on-off experience. Martin, Chad, Jimario, KJ probably had experience that would equate to the experience we're getting with the 3 jucos this year. Put that with Jeremiah and Jimario with solid starting experience now. Seems pretty much a wash.
So if talent is conceded to be down, experience is flat, then intangibles and coaching are projected as pluses, where does that leave us in the model?
(04-17-2017 10:12 AM)Dylan Wrote: So, our 3 is going to be better than averaging 12 and 8. I'm having a hard time with that...
We have 0 back up point guards, but our backup is going to be better than last year when we finally get one signed regardless of who it is. I do agree, it's hard to have less production than what we got last year.
There's so many unknowns that's it hard for me to assume anything. I'm just not expecting much out of Azab because a) his stats aren't really what they should be in high school and b) he hasn't played yet...
We don't have a three, unless Nickleberry is put there.
We only have three guards and certainly Brewton and Martin cannot play the three.
Johnson could, but with the lack of depth at the guard, he won't spend much time at the three.
Azab and Enoh can't play the three. Thornton is 6'7 230--certainly not an ideal three.
Rivers played the 4/5 last year. I didn't see a "three" skill set in him.
That leaves Davenport. Shoots in the mid 20% from three. He was a PF in JUCO. I guess, by default, he'll have to be the three.
(04-17-2017 10:12 AM)Dylan Wrote: So, our 3 is going to be better than averaging 12 and 8. I'm having a hard time with that...
We have 0 back up point guards, but our backup is going to be better than last year when we finally get one signed regardless of who it is. I do agree, it's hard to have less production than what we got last year.
There's so many unknowns that's it hard for me to assume anything. I'm just not expecting much out of Azab because a) his stats aren't really what they should be in high school and b) he hasn't played yet...
We don't have a three, unless Nickleberry is put there.
We only have three guards and certainly Brewton and Martin cannot play the three.
Johnson could, but with the lack of depth at the guard, he won't spend much time at the three.
Azab and Enoh can't play the three. Thornton is 6'7 230--certainly not an ideal three.
Rivers played the 4/5 last year. I didn't see a "three" skill set in him.
That leaves Davenport. Shoots in the mid 20% from three. He was a PF in JUCO. I guess, by default, he'll have to be the three.
Actually Nickelbery and Thornton were recruited as SF as I understand it. Both are supposed to be skilled at the position. Size alone should not disqualify Thornton. He appears to be mobile, and a good passer who makes those around him better.
It seems Davenport and Enoh are the two power forwards recruited. Both are strong and active.
Rivers can guard the three. Last year he was a good soldier giving up his body to play out of position because the team needed him there. Offensively I have doubts, but he does shoot the midrange shot well.
(04-17-2017 08:52 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote: Goal: Reach the NCAA Tourney and win games (our goal every year).
Last year we failed to reach our goal. What must change for us to reach our goal next season?
Below is my way of analyzing to derive an answer to the above question. It is not a mathematical formula, but used for roughly framing the elements required to improve next year.
Improvement = (talent in - talent out) + (experience in - experience out) + (net player intangibles [ie, physical growth, S & C, team chemistry]) + (net coaching ability).
IMO, greater weight should be given to talent. Coaches, like players, are subject to improvement. Tubby, for example, may correct his errors from last year like establishing a S&C program quickly and developing a bench.
I believe we will have less overall talent and less overall experience next season than last season. The best hope for improvement is the team gels and Tubby coaches up the team (eg, avoids slumps and soul crushing defeats).
I think the prospects for improvement are dim and we will fall well short of our goal and perhaps experience the worse season in over 43 years.
Interesting equation. I like it. Put some algebraic factors with it and we're good to go.
Not sure how you figure less experience though. Even with the turnover we've had this year, think back to last year. Dedric had a year of starting experience, and Markel had 2 years of on-off experience. Martin, Chad, Jimario, KJ probably had experience that would equate to the experience we're getting with the 3 jucos this year. Put that with Jeremiah and Jimario with solid starting experience now. Seems pretty much a wash.
So if talent is conceded to be down, experience is flat, then intangibles and coaching are projected as pluses, where does that leave us in the model?
(04-17-2017 10:12 AM)Dylan Wrote: So, our 3 is going to be better than averaging 12 and 8. I'm having a hard time with that...
We have 0 back up point guards, but our backup is going to be better than last year when we finally get one signed regardless of who it is. I do agree, it's hard to have less production than what we got last year.
There's so many unknowns that's it hard for me to assume anything. I'm just not expecting much out of Azab because a) his stats aren't really what they should be in high school and b) he hasn't played yet...
We don't have a three, unless Nickleberry is put there.
We only have three guards and certainly Brewton and Martin cannot play the three.
Johnson could, but with the lack of depth at the guard, he won't spend much time at the three.
Azab and Enoh can't play the three. Thornton is 6'7 230--certainly not an ideal three.
Rivers played the 4/5 last year. I didn't see a "three" skill set in him.
That leaves Davenport. Shoots in the mid 20% from three. He was a PF in JUCO. I guess, by default, he'll have to be the three.
Actually Nickelbery and Thornton were recruited as SF as I understand it. Both are supposed to be skilled at the position. Size alone should not disqualify Thornton. He appears to be mobile, and a good passer who makes those around him better.
It seems Davenport and Enoh are the two power forwards recruited. Both are strong and active.
Rivers can guard the three. Last year he was a good soldier giving up his body to play out of position because the team needed him there. Offensively I have doubts, but he does shoot the midrange shot well.
Davenport must be sneaky strong because dude is 6'7 180.
(04-17-2017 10:12 AM)Dylan Wrote: So, our 3 is going to be better than averaging 12 and 8. I'm having a hard time with that...
We have 0 back up point guards, but our backup is going to be better than last year when we finally get one signed regardless of who it is. I do agree, it's hard to have less production than what we got last year.
There's so many unknowns that's it hard for me to assume anything. I'm just not expecting much out of Azab because a) his stats aren't really what they should be in high school and b) he hasn't played yet...
We don't have a three, unless Nickleberry is put there.
We only have three guards and certainly Brewton and Martin cannot play the three.
Johnson could, but with the lack of depth at the guard, he won't spend much time at the three.
Azab and Enoh can't play the three. Thornton is 6'7 230--certainly not an ideal three.
Rivers played the 4/5 last year. I didn't see a "three" skill set in him.
That leaves Davenport. Shoots in the mid 20% from three. He was a PF in JUCO. I guess, by default, he'll have to be the three.
Actually Nickelbery and Thornton were recruited as SF as I understand it. Both are supposed to be skilled at the position. Size alone should not disqualify Thornton. He appears to be mobile, and a good passer who makes those around him better.
It seems Davenport and Enoh are the two power forwards recruited. Both are strong and active.
Rivers can guard the three. Last year he was a good soldier giving up his body to play out of position because the team needed him there. Offensively I have doubts, but he does shoot the midrange shot well.
Davenport must be sneaky strong because dude is 6'7 180.
(04-17-2017 10:12 AM)Dylan Wrote: So, our 3 is going to be better than averaging 12 and 8. I'm having a hard time with that...
We have 0 back up point guards, but our backup is going to be better than last year when we finally get one signed regardless of who it is. I do agree, it's hard to have less production than what we got last year.
There's so many unknowns that's it hard for me to assume anything. I'm just not expecting much out of Azab because a) his stats aren't really what they should be in high school and b) he hasn't played yet...
We don't have a three, unless Nickleberry is put there.
We only have three guards and certainly Brewton and Martin cannot play the three.
Johnson could, but with the lack of depth at the guard, he won't spend much time at the three.
Azab and Enoh can't play the three. Thornton is 6'7 230--certainly not an ideal three.
Rivers played the 4/5 last year. I didn't see a "three" skill set in him.
That leaves Davenport. Shoots in the mid 20% from three. He was a PF in JUCO. I guess, by default, he'll have to be the three.
Actually Nickelbery and Thornton were recruited as SF as I understand it. Both are supposed to be skilled at the position. Size alone should not disqualify Thornton. He appears to be mobile, and a good passer who makes those around him better.
It seems Davenport and Enoh are the two power forwards recruited. Both are strong and active.
Rivers can guard the three. Last year he was a good soldier giving up his body to play out of position because the team needed him there. Offensively I have doubts, but he does shoot the midrange shot well.
Davenport must be sneaky strong because dude is 6'7 180.
(04-17-2017 10:17 AM)salukiblue Wrote: We don't have a three, unless Nickleberry is put there.
We only have three guards and certainly Brewton and Martin cannot play the three.
Johnson could, but with the lack of depth at the guard, he won't spend much time at the three.
Azab and Enoh can't play the three. Thornton is 6'7 230--certainly not an ideal three.
Rivers played the 4/5 last year. I didn't see a "three" skill set in him.
That leaves Davenport. Shoots in the mid 20% from three. He was a PF in JUCO. I guess, by default, he'll have to be the three.
Actually Nickelbery and Thornton were recruited as SF as I understand it. Both are supposed to be skilled at the position. Size alone should not disqualify Thornton. He appears to be mobile, and a good passer who makes those around him better.
It seems Davenport and Enoh are the two power forwards recruited. Both are strong and active.
Rivers can guard the three. Last year he was a good soldier giving up his body to play out of position because the team needed him there. Offensively I have doubts, but he does shoot the midrange shot well.
Davenport must be sneaky strong because dude is 6'7 180.
The CA stated that he is now around 205.
But whatever...
Better than 180, for sure.
He still can't play the 5. We need another JUCO C, or graduate transfer.
(04-17-2017 11:35 AM)SouthernBlue Wrote: Actually Nickelbery and Thornton were recruited as SF as I understand it. Both are supposed to be skilled at the position. Size alone should not disqualify Thornton. He appears to be mobile, and a good passer who makes those around him better.
It seems Davenport and Enoh are the two power forwards recruited. Both are strong and active.
Rivers can guard the three. Last year he was a good soldier giving up his body to play out of position because the team needed him there. Offensively I have doubts, but he does shoot the midrange shot well.
Davenport must be sneaky strong because dude is 6'7 180.
The CA stated that he is now around 205.
But whatever...
Better than 180, for sure.
He still can't play the 5. We need another JUCO C, or graduate transfer.
/
Current lineup...moving target...
