(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 12:03 AM)Cotten Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 08:53 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 08:13 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 07:52 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  Sooner or later, the story is really going to come out between the University vs Keelon vs Tubby vs Bowen vs the president. Do we really know what happened, or are we just guessing? What about the financial backers? Was their a decision higher up to get rid of Keelon and put the pressure on Tubby and the Lawson's blamed him?

Good points. There are many sides to this.

And when something fails, people tend to work out the scenario in their cute little heads that best exonerates them. lol.

It's a big messy drama that doesn't seem as big messy.... now that some of the leading characters are gone.

Let's not forget Keon and Markel left too. Last I looked their last names weren't Lawson

Really, I would like to know why Markel left? I really hadn't heard anything bad about him, surely not? I thought Keon and Markel were good kids? Well! Maybe, Markel left, because he felt alone and everyone was leaving? Maybe someone will sit down and interview these two, to find out why they felt they had to leave?

Crawford left because he wanted a chance to play in the Tournament before his career was over, and he wasn't going to get that chance by staying here.

Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 12:03 AM)Cotten Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 08:53 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 08:13 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Good points. There are many sides to this.

And when something fails, people tend to work out the scenario in their cute little heads that best exonerates them. lol.

It's a big messy drama that doesn't seem as big messy.... now that some of the leading characters are gone.

Let's not forget Keon and Markel left too. Last I looked their last names weren't Lawson

Really, I would like to know why Markel left? I really hadn't heard anything bad about him, surely not? I thought Keon and Markel were good kids? Well! Maybe, Markel left, because he felt alone and everyone was leaving? Maybe someone will sit down and interview these two, to find out why they felt they had to leave?

Crawford left because he wanted a chance to play in the Tournament before his career was over, and he wasn't going to get that chance by staying here.

Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

I didnt see anything about this. Where does that intel come from?

(04-17-2017 10:46 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 03:51 PM)MTigerBlue Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 11:21 PM)former guest Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 07:03 PM)Dylan Wrote:  Yea, let's give up our one main advantage as a program because we had a bad experience. I didn't see anyone in here up in arms when we signed the Lawson's...

I didn't care for it from the start. Said as much and Easterwood tried to explain it was all on the up and up. IIRC, I told him that when I hear someone say publicly that if they hired him they would get his sons, I call that pimping. Maybe I was in the minority at the time, because everyone was in "star struck" mode with the two son's rankings. But I think there was some opposition to the concept. Outright "up in arms"? Maybe not at the time...

You weren't the only one, but in Dylan's defense, there weren't many of us. Will probably be more next time, I'm thinking.

At the time, there was little reason to believe Pastner was going to choose anyone with a better upside. He was very stubborn.

Very good point. With the staff turnover we had experienced, many felt it was little risk.

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 12:03 AM)Cotten Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 08:53 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 08:13 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  Good points. There are many sides to this.

And when something fails, people tend to work out the scenario in their cute little heads that best exonerates them. lol.

It's a big messy drama that doesn't seem as big messy.... now that some of the leading characters are gone.

Let's not forget Keon and Markel left too. Last I looked their last names weren't Lawson

Really, I would like to know why Markel left? I really hadn't heard anything bad about him, surely not? I thought Keon and Markel were good kids? Well! Maybe, Markel left, because he felt alone and everyone was leaving? Maybe someone will sit down and interview these two, to find out why they felt they had to leave?

Crawford left because he wanted a chance to play in the Tournament before his career was over, and he wasn't going to get that chance by staying here.

Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

hook. line. sinker.

(04-17-2017 02:04 PM)rssumme Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 10:41 AM)midtowncowboy Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 09:36 AM)rssumme Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 07:03 PM)Dylan Wrote:  Yea, let's give up our one main advantage as a program because we had a bad experience. I didn't see anyone in here up in arms when we signed the Lawson's...

There were several in my personal group of friends/fans that overwhelmingly did not agree with the decision to hire Lawson. It was gross from the beginning. I did hope it would pay off after it was done. Id gladly have taken the success. It did not work though and its a shame for everyone involved. The Lawsons still have to live here and it cant be easy for them around town. I wish they could have been hometown heroes in the end. I hope we dont hire dads in the future. It's not commonly effective.

And yes, I know Bill Self and Kansas has success with it...twice...ever.

Danny Manning was a program changer worth the risk. He won a national championship.

You maybe didnt read my last sentence?

Cal hired Milt Wagner who played for our most hated rival in order to get Dajuan...it happens a lot in football as well

(04-17-2017 03:38 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 12:03 AM)Cotten Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 08:53 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  Really, I would like to know why Markel left? I really hadn't heard anything bad about him, surely not? I thought Keon and Markel were good kids? Well! Maybe, Markel left, because he felt alone and everyone was leaving? Maybe someone will sit down and interview these two, to find out why they felt they had to leave?

Crawford left because he wanted a chance to play in the Tournament before his career was over, and he wasn't going to get that chance by staying here.

Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

hook. line. sinker.

There maybe more to the story - like it is false.

Remember, we are dealing with a staff making an offer to a D2 kid. Nothing strains credibility.

(04-17-2017 03:29 PM)rssumme Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 12:03 AM)Cotten Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 08:53 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  Really, I would like to know why Markel left? I really hadn't heard anything bad about him, surely not? I thought Keon and Markel were good kids? Well! Maybe, Markel left, because he felt alone and everyone was leaving? Maybe someone will sit down and interview these two, to find out why they felt they had to leave?

Crawford left because he wanted a chance to play in the Tournament before his career was over, and he wasn't going to get that chance by staying here.

Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

I didnt see anything about this. Where does that intel come from?

I am sarcastic quite a bit but I am not a bulls#!tter, it's legit.

(04-17-2017 04:12 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:29 PM)rssumme Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 12:03 AM)Cotten Wrote:  Crawford left because he wanted a chance to play in the Tournament before his career was over, and he wasn't going to get that chance by staying here.

Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

I didnt see anything about this. Where does that intel come from?

I am sarcastic quite a bit but I am not a bulls#!tter, it's legit.

I haven't seen any of the "connected" people suggest this was the case

(04-17-2017 04:11 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:38 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 12:03 AM)Cotten Wrote:  Crawford left because he wanted a chance to play in the Tournament before his career was over, and he wasn't going to get that chance by staying here.

Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

hook. line. sinker.

There maybe more to the story - like it is false.

Remember, we are dealing with a staff making an offer to a D2 kid. Nothing strains credibility.

D2 kid turned us down

(04-17-2017 03:29 PM)rssumme Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 12:03 AM)Cotten Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 08:53 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  Really, I would like to know why Markel left? I really hadn't heard anything bad about him, surely not? I thought Keon and Markel were good kids? Well! Maybe, Markel left, because he felt alone and everyone was leaving? Maybe someone will sit down and interview these two, to find out why they felt they had to leave?

Crawford left because he wanted a chance to play in the Tournament before his career was over, and he wasn't going to get that chance by staying here.

Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

I didnt see anything about this. Where does that intel come from?

First I have heard of it, but I'm sure people will be quoting it as gospel in the future. Any anti Smith rumor automatically gets spread around. Like he wasn't recruiting DJ Jeffries, and he was golfing on a day he should have been recruiting.

(04-17-2017 04:24 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 04:11 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:38 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

hook. line. sinker.

There maybe more to the story - like it is false.

Remember, we are dealing with a staff making an offer to a D2 kid. Nothing strains credibility.

D2 kid turned us down

hook. line. sinker.

(04-17-2017 04:35 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:29 PM)rssumme Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 12:03 AM)Cotten Wrote:  Crawford left because he wanted a chance to play in the Tournament before his career was over, and he wasn't going to get that chance by staying here.

Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

I didnt see anything about this. Where does that intel come from?

First I have heard of it, but I'm sure people will be quoting it as gospel in the future. Any anti Smith rumor automatically gets spread around. Like he wasn't recruiting DJ Jeffries, and he was golfing on a day he should have been recruiting.

Well, it doesn't matter who quotes what but Markel is gone and the staff didn't seem to care.

And Tubby does not work on Sunday's so that's the day he went golfing, I suppose. That's legit too.

Edit: Looks like Markel is talking about it now on the radio.

(04-17-2017 05:20 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 04:35 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:29 PM)rssumme Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 01:09 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  Markel could have been courted to stay but from the time the season ended to the time he announced he was leaving, not one person from the coaching staff contacted him about his decision, next year, the off season, academics, etc.

WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

I didnt see anything about this. Where does that intel come from?

First I have heard of it, but I'm sure people will be quoting it as gospel in the future. Any anti Smith rumor automatically gets spread around. Like he wasn't recruiting DJ Jeffries, and he was golfing on a day he should have been recruiting.

Well, it doesn't matter who quotes what but Markel is gone and the staff didn't seem to care.

And Tubby does not work on Sunday's so that's the day he went golfing, I suppose. That's legit too.

Edit: Looks like Markel is talking about it now on the radio.

What are you basing the "staff didn't seem to care" comment on? And since when does Tubby Smith not work on Sunday?

(04-17-2017 05:32 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:20 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 04:35 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:29 PM)rssumme Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:27 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  WTH, why?

Unless there is more to the story, it is coaching malpractice.

I didnt see anything about this. Where does that intel come from?

First I have heard of it, but I'm sure people will be quoting it as gospel in the future. Any anti Smith rumor automatically gets spread around. Like he wasn't recruiting DJ Jeffries, and he was golfing on a day he should have been recruiting.

Well, it doesn't matter who quotes what but Markel is gone and the staff didn't seem to care.

And Tubby does not work on Sunday's so that's the day he went golfing, I suppose. That's legit too.

Edit: Looks like Markel is talking about it now on the radio.

What are you basing the "staff didn't seem to care" comment on? And since when does Tubby Smith not work on Sunday?

If you were coaching Markel and he's your third best player, and he's eligible to transfer because he's graduated, and your top two players were transferring out, wouldn't you go to him and say something? Something like "Hey, this team is yours now. It's been rough these past couple of weeks but we got your back. We need you." Instead, nothing. Either they didn't care or were too stupid to see the writing on the wall. I think it's because they didn't care. Either way, poor management.

Ask Tubby why he doesn't work on Sunday.

(04-17-2017 07:58 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:32 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:20 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 04:35 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:29 PM)rssumme Wrote:  I didnt see anything about this. Where does that intel come from?

First I have heard of it, but I'm sure people will be quoting it as gospel in the future. Any anti Smith rumor automatically gets spread around. Like he wasn't recruiting DJ Jeffries, and he was golfing on a day he should have been recruiting.

Well, it doesn't matter who quotes what but Markel is gone and the staff didn't seem to care.

And Tubby does not work on Sunday's so that's the day he went golfing, I suppose. That's legit too.

Edit: Looks like Markel is talking about it now on the radio.

What are you basing the "staff didn't seem to care" comment on? And since when does Tubby Smith not work on Sunday?

If you were coaching Markel and he's your third best player, and he's eligible to transfer because he's graduated, and your top two players were transferring out, wouldn't you go to him and say something? Something like "Hey, this team is yours now. It's been rough these past couple of weeks but we got your back. We need you." Instead, nothing. Either they didn't care or were too stupid to see the writing on the wall. I think it's because they didn't care. Either way, poor management.

Ask Tubby why he doesn't work on Sunday.

That's right! Beg him to stay! Take him out for ice cream! Wash his feet! Kiss his backside!

Markel knew he was wanted and needed. He chose to transfer, and I think it was a very reasonable decision if his goal was to play in the NCAA tourney. He knew he would be a leader, get tons of minutes, a chance to be a star, etc, if he stayed. He chose otherwise.

He was gone, no matter what Tubby did...

They are quitters. Good riddance.

Go Tigers Go!

(04-17-2017 07:58 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:32 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 05:20 PM)Memphomaniac Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 04:35 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 03:29 PM)rssumme Wrote:  I didnt see anything about this. Where does that intel come from?

First I have heard of it, but I'm sure people will be quoting it as gospel in the future. Any anti Smith rumor automatically gets spread around. Like he wasn't recruiting DJ Jeffries, and he was golfing on a day he should have been recruiting.

Well, it doesn't matter who quotes what but Markel is gone and the staff didn't seem to care.

And Tubby does not work on Sunday's so that's the day he went golfing, I suppose. That's legit too.

Edit: Looks like Markel is talking about it now on the radio.

What are you basing the "staff didn't seem to care" comment on? And since when does Tubby Smith not work on Sunday?

If you were coaching Markel and he's your third best player, and he's eligible to transfer because he's graduated, and your top two players were transferring out, wouldn't you go to him and say something? Something like "Hey, this team is yours now. It's been rough these past couple of weeks but we got your back. We need you." Instead, nothing. Either they didn't care or were too stupid to see the writing on the wall. I think it's because they didn't care. Either way, poor management.

Ask Tubby why he doesn't work on Sunday.

You keep repeating that as if it was actually a proven fact.

(04-15-2017 01:09 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 12:58 PM)jgardne Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 12:51 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  A fair point.

But I don't think people are raising these concerns "to protect Tubby" (or Pastner).

I do think it's possible to have concerns about the preps hoop culture around Memphis without throwing the KIDS under the bus. In most cases there's nothing wrong with the players themselves. They often thrive at other schools.

Getting local talent to thrive at the U of M has been challenging in the last 10 or 15 years, however. I think we would all like to see that change.

But either you believe this is a string of coincidences, or you believe that there might be some underlying issue.

There are examples that stick in everybody's mind like the Lawsons so there is recency bias

But make a list of all Memphis kids with issues and without issues and I bet the list of kids without issues is waaay longer

And it's not like this is a Memphis issue, it's more an issue of highly ranked players everywhere. It's not the city, it's the fact that we produce more high level talent than a lot of other places so the problem seems geographical.

To be clear-- highly rated recruits are whom I'm talking about. The Jake McDowells of the world do just fine here.

But a few days ago, I mentally tried to make those two lists. I focused on prospects that were ranked in the top 75 or so coming out of high school, since the year 2000.

I thought of two local kids (and one of those was borderline) who you could say were "without issues". And one of those definitely argued with the coach, and you could say did not play up to full potential. I thought of a third who did pretty well here and was without drama to my recollection, but who might not have been ranked quite that high (I don't remember). I kept trying and drawing blanks. I didn't do actual research, so I'm sure I overlooked a few.

But making the other list was, regrettably, substantially easier. I see your point about recency bias with the Lawsons, but it's not hard to think about Memphis recruits who struggled to meet expectations going back to Calipari's tenure here. And there were certainly more than a handful under Pastner, which... you can blame Pastner if you want. Maybe you're right.

But I'm starting to give the side-eye. I'd hate to see us mis-diagnose the issue and run off coach after coach after coach with no improvement to show for it.

Bit of an overreaction. Many top tier Memphis kids have done quite well here too. And we have gotten a lot of them so you get a lot of successes and busts.

An yes, of late, a few too many solid players who fizzled here, either by transferring or other...Nichols, King, Lawson...