(04-14-2017 09:26 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Let's just get this straight:

NOBODY outside of Cal has EVER done well WITHOUT MEMPHIS TALENT.

Bartow, Finch, Pastner all NEEDED Memphis-talent to do well.

Close to 90-95% of all U of M students come from the Memphis-area. I love the University of Memphis, but let's be honest: it is not a destination University and outside of Cal, the list of non-Memphis Tigers of merit is very, very limited:

Kenon, Shaq Goodwin, Will Barton, Omar Snead, Jermane Ousley.

Seriously, I made another thread awhile back and asked who were our best non-Memphis Tigers (who were NOT RECRUITED BY CAL) since Kenon and the list was VERY small.

No Memphis talent on the Tigers => no talent.

Part of the reason our program was what it was in terms of support is that many Memphis HS players WANTED to be Tigers and we did pretty darn well with Memphis-area Tigers.

There are no lies here, but consider a few counterpoints--

EDIT: I'm not by ANY means trying to build a case that local talent should go elsewhere. Only that our coaching staff would be wise to consider, in addition to talent alone, a prospective recruit's likely ability to handle the following challenges:

1) Bartow, Finch and Kirk were operating in a VERY different era-- one in which college basketball (and even NBA basketball) wasn't as big or lucrative a business yet. Bill Russell's annual salary was $100k per year. Even Magic Johnson only made $3m per year. Compare that with today, when Mike Conley makes $26m per year and LeBron James makes nearly $31m per year. Even after adjusted for inflation, this is a MASSIVE difference.

Add into that the prevalence of shoe contracts, etc-- and you can see that there's far more incentive than ever for friends, family members, youth coaches, etc. to ingratiate themselves to (and influence) the young talent-- young talent who aren't very mature yet, may not have the independent sound judgment to be discerning. Particularly if they or those around them face real-life day-to-day economic challenges, as many families in Memphis do.

That's a long-winded way of saying that local athletes who stay around all of the old influences face a LOT more distractions, demands, and challenges than they did 50, 40, 30, even 20 years ago. Bartow coached here nearly half a century ago. Kids get pulled in more different directions now.

2) Social media exists now. I remember Coach Calipari saying on the radio show not even a decade ago that "I'm twittering [sic] now! Can you believe that?" It's hard to realize how new social media is, since it's so fully integrated into most of our lives now. But in reality, compared to prior eras this is a brave new world of distraction and influence, and allows kids to screw up in whole new ways (see: Lawson, KJ), and allows influences in the kids' lives to be visible nonstop. Combine this with pressures from #1, and it's easy to see that some distance can be good for the kids' ability to perform their best.

3) A shocking number of local kids who stay have underperformed in the 21st century, while many local kids who leave have done well. I'm too lazy to dig up receipts for this, but you couldn't watch the NCAA tournament last month without seeing that there were hometown Memphis kids in what seemed like every single game. Thriving, performing, playing up to their potential.

But since roughly the turn of the century, an alarming number of talented Memphis kids who stay home have underperformed relative to their talent level and expectations. Perhaps this is because of the pressure of staying at home and playing for the Tigers, or because of the influences cited in #1 above, but with Joe Jackson and maybe Shawne Williams being possible exceptions, there haven't been many players from Memphis who came to the Tigers since the year 2000 and a) played fully up to their potential, b) didn't transfer and perform better somewhere else (Black, Tarik), 3) stayed all four years without incident, or until a sure first-round draft pick, and 4) didn't cause drama for the program.

Back in Finch's and Kirk's days, it was unusual to see a local player who was highly rated turn out to be a disappointment. Paris London was an anomaly. Now the opposite seems to be an anomaly. Adonis Thomas, Austin Nichols, Tarik Black, Pierre Niles, Nick King, both Lawsons, Markel Crawford seem to be the norm. Andre Allen's off-court troubles. Willie Kemp's crises of confidence. I don't want to admit it anymore than you do, but it sadly appears that this may be the new normal with Memphis talent playing for the Tigers. It's been going on since the turn of the (21st) century. Someone from the city who comes and fulfills or exceeds expectations relative to their talent level is rarer now. It's possible we've reached that critical mass where, in MANY (not all) cases, it's better both for the student-athlete AND the university if they go elsewhere.

Great counterpoints, NJ1.

Bottom line is TIGER BB coaches need to think long and hard about recruiting the extra baggage and BS that accompanies "MEMPHIS talent". The Lawsons = absolute chaos and a joke. KJ has a massive overinflated opinion of his talent; he's destined to come off the bench at KU, do a few years in the NBAD and ultimately bus tables at IHOP griping about what could have been.

Isn't it interesting, though, how this doesn't seem to occur with Norvell (like Fuente before him) signing local MEMPHIS FB talent? I know a big part of that is the total team numbers (85 FB versus 13 BB), but still you don't see near the level of BS with FB players like you do with the BB players.

(04-15-2017 06:44 AM)NJ1 Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:26 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Let's just get this straight:

NOBODY outside of Cal has EVER done well WITHOUT MEMPHIS TALENT.

Bartow, Finch, Pastner all NEEDED Memphis-talent to do well.

Close to 90-95% of all U of M students come from the Memphis-area. I love the University of Memphis, but let's be honest: it is not a destination University and outside of Cal, the list of non-Memphis Tigers of merit is very, very limited:

Kenon, Shaq Goodwin, Will Barton, Omar Snead, Jermane Ousley.

Seriously, I made another thread awhile back and asked who were our best non-Memphis Tigers (who were NOT RECRUITED BY CAL) since Kenon and the list was VERY small.

No Memphis talent on the Tigers => no talent.

Part of the reason our program was what it was in terms of support is that many Memphis HS players WANTED to be Tigers and we did pretty darn well with Memphis-area Tigers.

There are no lies here, but consider a few counterpoints--

EDIT: I'm not by ANY means trying to build a case that local talent should go elsewhere. Only that our coaching staff would be wise to consider, in addition to talent alone, a prospective recruit's likely ability to handle the following challenges:

1) Bartow, Finch and Kirk were operating in a VERY different era-- one in which college basketball (and even NBA basketball) wasn't as big or lucrative a business yet. Bill Russell's annual salary was $100k per year. Even Magic Johnson only made $3m per year. Compare that with today, when Mike Conley makes $26m per year and LeBron James makes nearly $31m per year. Even after adjusted for inflation, this is a MASSIVE difference.

Add into that the prevalence of shoe contracts, etc-- and you can see that there's far more incentive than ever for friends, family members, youth coaches, etc. to ingratiate themselves to (and influence) the young talent-- young talent who aren't very mature yet, may not have the independent sound judgment to be discerning. Particularly if they or those around them face real-life day-to-day economic challenges, as many families in Memphis do.

That's a long-winded way of saying that local athletes who stay around all of the old influences face a LOT more distractions, demands, and challenges than they did 50, 40, 30, even 20 years ago. Bartow coached here nearly half a century ago. Kids get pulled in more different directions now.

2) Social media exists now. I remember Coach Calipari saying on the radio show not even a decade ago that "I'm twittering [sic] now! Can you believe that?" It's hard to realize how new social media is, since it's so fully integrated into most of our lives now. But in reality, compared to prior eras this is a brave new world of distraction and influence, and allows kids to screw up in whole new ways (see: Lawson, KJ), and allows influences in the kids' lives to be visible nonstop. Combine this with pressures from #1, and it's easy to see that some distance can be good for the kids' ability to perform their best.

3) A shocking number of local kids who stay have underperformed in the 21st century, while many local kids who leave have done well. I'm too lazy to dig up receipts for this, but you couldn't watch the NCAA tournament last month without seeing that there were hometown Memphis kids in what seemed like every single game. Thriving, performing, playing up to their potential.

But since roughly the turn of the century, an alarming number of talented Memphis kids who stay home have underperformed relative to their talent level and expectations. Perhaps this is because of the pressure of staying at home and playing for the Tigers, or because of the influences cited in #1 above, but with Joe Jackson and maybe Shawne Williams being possible exceptions, there haven't been many players from Memphis who came to the Tigers since the year 2000 and a) played fully up to their potential, b) didn't transfer and perform better somewhere else (Black, Tarik), 3) stayed all four years without incident, or until a sure first-round draft pick, and 4) didn't cause drama for the program.

Back in Finch's and Kirk's days, it was unusual to see a local player who was highly rated turn out to be a disappointment. Paris London was an anomaly. Now the opposite seems to be an anomaly. Adonis Thomas, Austin Nichols, Tarik Black, Pierre Niles, Nick King, both Lawsons, Markel Crawford seem to be the norm. Andre Allen's off-court troubles. Willie Kemp's crises of confidence. I don't want to admit it anymore than you do, but it sadly appears that this may be the new normal with Memphis talent playing for the Tigers. It's been going on since the turn of the (21st) century. Someone from the city who comes and fulfills or exceeds expectations relative to their talent level is rarer now. It's possible we've reached that critical mass where, in MANY (not all) cases, it's better both for the student-athlete AND the university if they go elsewhere.

All this may be true but I still have to agree with ddramone: For now, our best shot at high level talent is heavily recruiting the Memphis area. If and when we ever get the Memphis brand rejuvenated, we will have better luck recruiting other areas of the country. The longer we have subpar talent and remain out of the national picture, the harder it is to get back in - just ask DePaul and UNLV. We are in danger of being relegated to their statuses if our current slump continues for another two or three years. I would say Calipari skirted just inside NCAA rules to get good players while here - our coaching staff needs to have the same attitude. In the end, everyone likes a winning program, including potential recruits, even if the methods used to win are sometimes distasteful. From this standpoint, I had no problem with either Pastner hiring daddy Lawson or Calipari hiring Milt Wagner.

(04-14-2017 08:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

Apparently Joe is going after a 4-star player from Ontario.

http://csnbbs.com/thread-815317.html

The problem is the Memphis kids demand more of the U of M then they do other programs. We have to stop be used like that. Fill the Forum..make them wish they had come. Its our only way to fight back. Show them we will come with or without them.

Another thing to consider, and to add to my list above--

4) The coach whose head most of us are calling for was COY in the Big XII last year. The coach whose head we called for for 5 or so years was COY in the ACC this year.

At some point, you gotta consider the possibility that the problem ain't the coach.

Pastner landed a LOT of local talent, and seemed to struggle mightily to manage it. The big knock on him was "he can't develop players," and "players always underperform under him." Except (Texan) DJ Stephens, who was transformed from a guy who couldn't dribble into a guy who got a cup of coffee in the NBA. And except, of course, for the fact that Pastner went to GT and got a roster full of scrubs to exceed expectations in year one.

And Tubby Smith isn't exactly known as a guy who can't manage players and maximize their ability. He'll get into the HOF because he's got a history of doing that very thing.

Far be it from me to say anything about the culture of prep hoops in Memphis. I'm an outsider and haven't even lived in the city since '98. I don't know any of these people. But something is toxic in the orbit of Tiger hoops, and it's spanned many years now. It repelled one coaching staff, took down another, and threatens to either repel or take down (or both!) a third.

(04-15-2017 08:05 AM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-15-2017 06:44 AM)NJ1 Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:26 PM)ddramone Wrote:  Let's just get this straight:

NOBODY outside of Cal has EVER done well WITHOUT MEMPHIS TALENT.

Bartow, Finch, Pastner all NEEDED Memphis-talent to do well.

Close to 90-95% of all U of M students come from the Memphis-area. I love the University of Memphis, but let's be honest: it is not a destination University and outside of Cal, the list of non-Memphis Tigers of merit is very, very limited:

Kenon, Shaq Goodwin, Will Barton, Omar Snead, Jermane Ousley.

Seriously, I made another thread awhile back and asked who were our best non-Memphis Tigers (who were NOT RECRUITED BY CAL) since Kenon and the list was VERY small.

No Memphis talent on the Tigers => no talent.

Part of the reason our program was what it was in terms of support is that many Memphis HS players WANTED to be Tigers and we did pretty darn well with Memphis-area Tigers.

There are no lies here, but consider a few counterpoints--

EDIT: I'm not by ANY means trying to build a case that local talent should go elsewhere. Only that our coaching staff would be wise to consider, in addition to talent alone, a prospective recruit's likely ability to handle the following challenges:

1) Bartow, Finch and Kirk were operating in a VERY different era-- one in which college basketball (and even NBA basketball) wasn't as big or lucrative a business yet. Bill Russell's annual salary was $100k per year. Even Magic Johnson only made $3m per year. Compare that with today, when Mike Conley makes $26m per year and LeBron James makes nearly $31m per year. Even after adjusted for inflation, this is a MASSIVE difference.

Add into that the prevalence of shoe contracts, etc-- and you can see that there's far more incentive than ever for friends, family members, youth coaches, etc. to ingratiate themselves to (and influence) the young talent-- young talent who aren't very mature yet, may not have the independent sound judgment to be discerning. Particularly if they or those around them face real-life day-to-day economic challenges, as many families in Memphis do.

That's a long-winded way of saying that local athletes who stay around all of the old influences face a LOT more distractions, demands, and challenges than they did 50, 40, 30, even 20 years ago. Bartow coached here nearly half a century ago. Kids get pulled in more different directions now.

2) Social media exists now. I remember Coach Calipari saying on the radio show not even a decade ago that "I'm twittering [sic] now! Can you believe that?" It's hard to realize how new social media is, since it's so fully integrated into most of our lives now. But in reality, compared to prior eras this is a brave new world of distraction and influence, and allows kids to screw up in whole new ways (see: Lawson, KJ), and allows influences in the kids' lives to be visible nonstop. Combine this with pressures from #1, and it's easy to see that some distance can be good for the kids' ability to perform their best.

3) A shocking number of local kids who stay have underperformed in the 21st century, while many local kids who leave have done well. I'm too lazy to dig up receipts for this, but you couldn't watch the NCAA tournament last month without seeing that there were hometown Memphis kids in what seemed like every single game. Thriving, performing, playing up to their potential.

But since roughly the turn of the century, an alarming number of talented Memphis kids who stay home have underperformed relative to their talent level and expectations. Perhaps this is because of the pressure of staying at home and playing for the Tigers, or because of the influences cited in #1 above, but with Joe Jackson and maybe Shawne Williams being possible exceptions, there haven't been many players from Memphis who came to the Tigers since the year 2000 and a) played fully up to their potential, b) didn't transfer and perform better somewhere else (Black, Tarik), 3) stayed all four years without incident, or until a sure first-round draft pick, and 4) didn't cause drama for the program.

Back in Finch's and Kirk's days, it was unusual to see a local player who was highly rated turn out to be a disappointment. Paris London was an anomaly. Now the opposite seems to be an anomaly. Adonis Thomas, Austin Nichols, Tarik Black, Pierre Niles, Nick King, both Lawsons, Markel Crawford seem to be the norm. Andre Allen's off-court troubles. Willie Kemp's crises of confidence. I don't want to admit it anymore than you do, but it sadly appears that this may be the new normal with Memphis talent playing for the Tigers. It's been going on since the turn of the (21st) century. Someone from the city who comes and fulfills or exceeds expectations relative to their talent level is rarer now. It's possible we've reached that critical mass where, in MANY (not all) cases, it's better both for the student-athlete AND the university if they go elsewhere.

All this may be true but I still have to agree with ddramone: For now, our best shot at high level talent is heavily recruiting the Memphis area. If and when we ever get the Memphis brand rejuvenated, we will have better luck recruiting other areas of the country. The longer we have subpar talent and remain out of the national picture, the harder it is to get back in - just ask DePaul and UNLV. We are in danger of being relegated to their statuses if our current slump continues for another two or three years. I would say Calipari skirted just inside NCAA rules to get good players while here - our coaching staff needs to have the same attitude. In the end, everyone likes a winning program, including potential recruits, even if the methods used to win are sometimes distasteful. From this standpoint, I had no problem with either Pastner hiring daddy Lawson or Calipari hiring Milt Wagner.

Another fair point.

But a counterpoint to that--

We have things that DePaul and UNLV can't offer in terms of facilities and support. We play in an NBA arena. We're about to bring a world-class practice facility online to replace one that was already competitive. We have boosters who seem willing to pay a coach top 25 money. Some of those things might be true at those other places, but probably not all of them.

The commitment, in terms of finances, is there for us. It's hard to believe that, as long as that remains true, we'll be too far down for too long.

And when we are back in the saddle again, we should be able to recruit nationally, or at least regionally from Florida, west to Texas, and north to DC or so. We certainly do in football, and that's much less of a storied tradition here.

(04-14-2017 11:10 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 10:41 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 09:15 PM)Smith Wrote:  He needs to stay away from the Memphis talent: Memphis talent cost both Larry Finch and Josh Pastner their jobs. He needs to do like Cal and recruit every, every, few of them. None with daddies like Austin Nichols, or the Lawson's, Deuce Ford, Ted Anderson etc.... Marcus Nolan is another one, these guys are trouble for their team not the opponent.

Memphis talent sure didn't hurt Kirk's teams. Also, many other high D-1 teams are heavily recruiting them. Some here seem to think that Memphis HS BB is unique in its problems. I hardly think so - recruiting is pretty slimy in every large urban area. It's just one distasteful aspect you have to put up with if you want to get good talent and compete on a national level.

Didn't hurt his teams, but it hurt him pretty much. He went to jail.

He went to jail for income tax evasion. He had to pay off his gin debts. He wasn't making nearly the salary they make now. He probably never made a $100,000 a season.

Evaluate "big baggage" prospects from any area but especially from Memphis...it is so vastly different now...social media, aka the devil, ruins almost everything it touches and combine that with people telling kids how good they are and how they are can't miss stars, then problems are just guaranteed...
Lomax and Dandridge, at least to me, represent good investments for Tubby...they don't seem to be big ego, big personality guys...helps that Penny keeps them grounded somewhat

At this point, we are dangerously close to being:

Houston, DePaul, St. John's, UNLV.....all formerly big time programs that are either in an NBA city or professional sports city (yes, I know Las Vegas isn't there yet). Every year that goes by where we are treading water makes the town less and less interested in the Tigers (and by extension more and more interested in the Grizz).

At this point, TS has to find the happy medium with Memphis-area talent. I just don't think TS's incoming class is going to make a big splash.

(04-15-2017 09:19 AM)ddramone Wrote:  At this point, we are dangerously close to being:

Houston, DePaul, St. John's, UNLV.....all formerly big time programs that are either in an NBA city or professional sports city (yes, I know Las Vegas isn't there yet). Every year that goes by where we are treading water makes the town less and less interested in the Tigers (and by extension more and more interested in the Grizz).

At this point, TS has to find the happy medium with Memphis-area talent. I just don't think TS's incoming class is going to make a big splash.

Yeah, but look at Tiger football.

NONE of Justin Fuente's recruiting classes made a splash. None.

But his on-field results certainly did, and completely brought Tiger football back from the brink (and in relatively short order, I might add). And there's a new passion about Tiger football now that some never thought possible.

And it was built very quickly, and allowed us to piggyback another great coaching hire.

And it wasn't done with recruiting, but with coaching. If Tubby succeeds, it will be by a similar blueprint.

If you have a tigers team with no Memphis talent you aren't filling up the forum. Unless you are winning big like Cal did. All this slow burn crap I keep hearing about Tubby's process doesn't not appeal to the younger fan base whatsoever.

Maybe the older tiger fans are more accepting to that process but its not like the next coach after Tubby is going to be another old school do it the right way coach. So why bother get to attached to the Tubby Smith era. Cause I can guarantee if Tubby doesn't want yo recruit Memphis the next coach they hire will.

(04-15-2017 09:23 AM)ndq1125 Wrote:  If you have a tigers team with no Memphis talent you aren't filling up the forum. Unless you are winning big like Cal did. All this slow burn crap I keep hearing about Tubby's process doesn't not appeal to the younger fan base whatsoever.

Maybe the older tiger fans are more accepting to that process but its not like the next coach after Tubby is going to be another old school do it the right way coach. So why bother get to attached to the Tubby Smith era. Cause I can guarantee if Tubby doesn't want yo recruit Memphis the next coach they hire will.

People could care less where the kids come from, as long as you win. The team could be composed of Memphis only kids, but if they lose, attendance will suffer.

It sounds like Tubby has little patience with some kids. Jeffries father mentioned that Tubby didn't try hard enough. I guess he offers, shows some interest, but if it isn't reciprocated, he moves on. Pastner, was the opposite. He'd work these guys until the end, and signed some incredible classes. Then what? Most of these guys left.

I'm certainly not against Memphis kids. But you do want kids that want to be here. Coachable kids. They are out there. I don't care where they come from, I just want good players and a winning program..

Also, some of us are more patient with the process than others. There's really not a lot you can do about it anyway, so why fight it? I think we could all agree that there were real problems with that team. Many of the older guys have dealt with similar situations (obviously less high profile) in our past. Sometimes you have to get rid of management(coach), sometimes the workers (players). Sometimes you have to blow the whole thing up.

I think we are on the right path. If Tubby didn't know what he got himself into, he does now. They have been tirelessly recruiting lately. We can all agree he should have started earlier, but he seems very engaged. Hopefully, he'll have this energy for 2018. The local area has a lot of good players, maybe he'll start landing some of the guys. Again, I don't care where they come from, just want good players..

(04-14-2017 08:11 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  Like Tubby said on radio yesterday, Memphis talent is critical to his success.
He needs to learn how to handle the baggage or he will fail.

I don't think it's baggage as much as it is entourage. Tubby has plenty of baggage players in his history. He's a good man and he welcomes the opportunities to mentor kids and get them on a good path. It seems that what he doesn't do is suffer fools running around whispering in players' ears and going to the media. Right or wrong.

(04-14-2017 10:11 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 10:08 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

so Jamal Johnson isn't a four-star?

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/3432

that's high level talent...

He is 3* in every other recruiting rankings. Even Rivals has him outside the top 100. But hey, if that floats your boat, keep on sailing.

Come on. He is the #2 highest recruit in the AAC. He had tons of P5 offers. He is a legit 4-star in a reputed service rankings.

No need to bag on one of our new recruits in order to take shots at the coach.

(04-15-2017 09:54 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 10:11 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 10:08 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

so Jamal Johnson isn't a four-star?

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/3432

that's high level talent...

He is 3* in every other recruiting rankings. Even Rivals has him outside the top 100. But hey, if that floats your boat, keep on sailing.

Come on. He is the #2 highest recruit in the AAC. He had tons of P5 offers. He is a legit 4-star in a reputed service rankings.

No need to bag on one of our new recruits in order to take shots at the coach.

Over the years I've seen plenty of Memphis recruits drop a star when they signed with us; not so much the other way. I'm glad that door swings both ways, occasionally.

(04-15-2017 09:54 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 10:11 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 10:08 PM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:16 PM)memtigbb Wrote:  

(04-14-2017 08:15 PM)NJ1 Wrote:  talk is cheap, though.

he hasn't really been going hard after Memphis kids, has he?

According to most sources he hasnt really been going hard after anyone. Joe has been going hard after the JUCO, but what high talent have they gone after outside of Memphis?

so Jamal Johnson isn't a four-star?

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/3432

that's high level talent...

He is 3* in every other recruiting rankings. Even Rivals has him outside the top 100. But hey, if that floats your boat, keep on sailing.

Come on. He is the #2 highest recruit in the AAC. He had tons of P5 offers. He is a legit 4-star in a reputed service rankings.

No need to bag on one of our new recruits in order to take shots at the coach.

He's a four star on 247 and Rivals.

247 has him at #86.

He's a three star on Scout and ESPN.

We need guys that will come in here and listen, and is willing to learn the system, and turn themselves into winners. I believe that is the strategy of Tubby going forward, and hopefully, not have to deal with what we just went through. With good learners and listeners, this program will turn around very quickly.

(04-15-2017 08:05 AM)presskh Wrote:  I would say Calipari skirted just inside NCAA rules to get good players while here - our coaching staff needs to have the same attitude. In the end, everyone likes a winning program, including potential recruits, even if the methods used to win are sometimes distasteful. From this standpoint, I had no problem with either Pastner hiring daddy Lawson or Calipari hiring Milt Wagner.

We may disagree on ethics, but that's neither here nor there for my point. Forget ethics for a minute and just think about learning from history. We've hired two Dads to get their sons, failed to get to the NCAA tournament all three years the sons played for us, and are in the situation we're now facing almost exclusively because of the huge conflict of interest that situation has a potential to create. Heck, just pay 'em under the table if that's the way you want to do it.

As to recruiting Memphis kids, I think a coach living here and getting to know the kids for a few years combined with bench depth will be all that's necessary to make it work out just fine. Pick the ones who are worth pursuing (talented and without interfering family members), and if they don't do what you say, bench 'em. I don't think there's any reason to ban recruiting kids just because of where they were born. Lots of good kids come from here, too, not just the bad apples.

What separates the blue bloods is they fill the arena even in bad times..and every program has had them. I'm not here to preach or tell people how to spend their money, but making the atmosphere makes a difference. Fill the Forum and make it happen.