Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
Author Message
bullet Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 20,339
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 374
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #11
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
(04-14-2017 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 08:48 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  I see the reference to "moving" the Ice Arena. On its own, that does not automatically mean an upgraded Arena.

Where is any indication that the Ice Arena would be expanded to the seating needed for a Div I team?

They do mean a new ice arena here as the existing ice arena definitely cannot be physically moved -- it's a nearly 90-year old building. They just mean that the location of any proposed new ice arena is going to be much different than where the current ice arena is located. (In this case, they're saying it would effectively be next to Memorial Stadium.)

I've said many times before that if I were someone with a $100 million to spare, I'd totally fund a new Illini hockey program. I'd LOVE it. That being said, a new ice arena in and of itself doesn't mean a hockey program is going to be started. Such ice arena would be a bare minimum requirement and, frankly, the first priority might be more just to provide a modern ice arena for recreational use for the school and greater Champaign-Urbana community (as I noted that the existing ice arena is literally nearly 90 years old).

Regardless, thanks to NoDak for posting. I hadn't seen that article and it has a lot of interesting proposals beyond the ice arena. I know exactly what they're aiming for with the Illini Union South idea (as it's in a wide open area right next to the business school where I spent many hours of my life). For the average student, that actually would have the most massive impact out of any of those proposals - it would effectively create a new focal point of day-to-day activity on campus (particularly for the business school and other campus units like the colleges of education and agriculture/environmental sciences that in the south portion of the campus). Most of the construction over the past 10 to 15 years has been on the north side of campus where the engineering and computer science programs are located (as they're the part of the university that is gushing with donations from Silicon Valley-types and other wealthy alums).

I love the arts district idea, as well - it seems to be really aimed to connect a few arts buildings that are close to each other but not really looked at as a cohesive unit, so it's very logical on paper and could essentially create a new "attraction" on campus without even needing to build new facilities (e.g. that seems like a really high ROI project if it comes to fruition). My guess is they're wisely proposing to make it into a mini-version of Chicago's Museum Campus (where the Field Museum, Shedd Aquarium, Adler Planetarium and Soldier Field were all next to each other but never really felt connected as a cohesive area until they reorganized the streets and parking around there and put in green space in strategic areas to create the Museum Campus that we see today).

Is Illinois that spread out that the South Union really makes a difference? At Texas they built a new union, but the current one west central is as convenient to everything as the new one, which isn't far away in the east. Texas, at least the regularly used part of campus (the baseball stadium and parking lots go well to the east), stretches more north-south than east west. And the old union never seemed to be used anywhere near capacity. Actually when I was in school it was very underutilized (there was none for a couple of years while it was rebuilt so maybe people could have just not been in the habit of using it)

Now at Georgia, the South Campus (Ag school) is quite a hike from the North campus.

Students are probably paying for it with fees and probably approve the fees (which future students will pay), but colleges should be efficient with their dollars and they usually aren't when it comes to buildings. Athletics are even less efficient as they compete with facilities rather than (as you prefer) with directly paying athletes. Universities compete for students with fancy facilities as well and not so much on price.
04-14-2017 10:08 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MplsBison Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,826
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 174
I Root For: NDSU/Minnesota
Location:
Post: #12
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
(04-14-2017 10:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  Universities compete for students with fancy facilities as well and not so much on price.

I would amend this to say that universities compete for students by offering various financial aid/scholarship packages!

If their tuition goes up ... the student doesn't care, and that's just more money to suck out of the scholarship endowment and inject into the school's operating budget.
04-14-2017 10:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Frank the Tank Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,446
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 451
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #13
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
(04-14-2017 10:03 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  What's a "sell out", for Illinois club team? 1k? 2k?

It's nice that college hockey is generally a weekend thing, but still ... how many are going to drive down from Chicago for Big Ten hockey?? Not on a Friday night, unless they're staying over. And for a weekend day game, that's still 4+ hours of driving.

I guess Champaign county has 200k-ish population, so more than I was thinking.


I mean, by all means, knock yourselves out. Was just thinking it would be smarter to build it on UIC campus and have both Illini and Flames hockey. But if that's a non-starter, then so be it.


And yeah, it does make sense that UIUC to UIC is much closer toward the Alabama to UAB end of the spectrum than the Berkeley to UCSF end of the spectrum. But, at least academically, I think of it as the latter.

About 2000 for a sellout, but remember again that this is the demand for just *club* hockey.

This isn't really about people driving down from Chicago or even the greater Champaign-Urbana area. Instead, it's about the market of 40,000-plus students that actually live on-campus and nearly all of them are within walking distance of the arena. (In Minnesota terms, would it make any sense for Minnesota-Duluth to have their ice arena in the Twin Cities? Does it make sense for Michigan State to have their ice arena in Detroit? That's the equivalent of UIUC having their "home" ice area in Chicago.) I have a special place in my heart for UIC (as my parents met there as students and my father worked there for 3 decades, so I literally wouldn't exist as a human being without that university), but it's still a largely commuter university with little athletic school spirit. UIC has a MUCH nicer campus neighborhood compared to 20 years ago (which coincided with the West Loop turning from a sketchy neighborhood into a high-flying gentrified area), but it's a completely different universe and attracts a different type of student compared to Champaign-Urbana.
04-14-2017 10:13 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MplsBison Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,826
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 174
I Root For: NDSU/Minnesota
Location:
Post: #14
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
If the Big Ten Minnesota campus was in Duluth, and only had a club hockey team, and the Twin Cities campus of the U of Minn was just the medical/research stuff, plus a non-football low/mid major DI .... then you'd have a comparable scenario.


But anyway, it was just a thought.
04-14-2017 10:18 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Captain Bearcat Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,858
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 168
I Root For: UC
Location: SD & Cincinnati, USA
Post: #15
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
(04-14-2017 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 08:48 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  I see the reference to "moving" the Ice Arena. On its own, that does not automatically mean an upgraded Arena.

Where is any indication that the Ice Arena would be expanded to the seating needed for a Div I team?

They do mean a new ice arena here as the existing ice arena definitely cannot be physically moved -- it's a nearly 90-year old building. They just mean that the location of any proposed new ice arena is going to be much different than where the current ice arena is located. (In this case, they're saying it would effectively be next to Memorial Stadium.)

I've said many times before that if I were someone with a $100 million to spare, I'd totally fund a new Illini hockey program. I'd LOVE it. That being said, a new ice arena in and of itself doesn't mean a hockey program is going to be started. Such ice arena would be a bare minimum requirement and, frankly, the first priority might be more just to provide a modern ice arena for recreational use for the school and greater Champaign-Urbana community (as I noted that the existing ice arena is literally nearly 90 years old).

Something I always found curious - Purdue is in a similar North/South location to Illinois and is in a similar sized town (about 180k in Tippecanoe County), but there is no ice arena within several counties of Purdue. In fact the ice rink in Champaign is one of the closest rinks to Purdue (there's a couple in Indy's northern suburbs that are closer, but they're not that much closer).

I find it odd that there's not enough demand for 1 ice arena in Lafayette/West Lafayette but somehow there's enough demand for 2 ice arenas in Urbana/Champaign.
04-14-2017 10:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
MplsBison Online
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 15,826
Joined: Dec 2014
Reputation: 174
I Root For: NDSU/Minnesota
Location:
Post: #16
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
Gotta be culture.

Illinois I would consider an ice hockey state. Indiana, no. Even if that's not actually true!
04-14-2017 10:29 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Captain Bearcat Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,858
Joined: Jun 2010
Reputation: 168
I Root For: UC
Location: SD & Cincinnati, USA
Post: #17
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
(04-14-2017 10:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 08:48 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  I see the reference to "moving" the Ice Arena. On its own, that does not automatically mean an upgraded Arena.

Where is any indication that the Ice Arena would be expanded to the seating needed for a Div I team?

They do mean a new ice arena here as the existing ice arena definitely cannot be physically moved -- it's a nearly 90-year old building. They just mean that the location of any proposed new ice arena is going to be much different than where the current ice arena is located. (In this case, they're saying it would effectively be next to Memorial Stadium.)

I've said many times before that if I were someone with a $100 million to spare, I'd totally fund a new Illini hockey program. I'd LOVE it. That being said, a new ice arena in and of itself doesn't mean a hockey program is going to be started. Such ice arena would be a bare minimum requirement and, frankly, the first priority might be more just to provide a modern ice arena for recreational use for the school and greater Champaign-Urbana community (as I noted that the existing ice arena is literally nearly 90 years old).

Regardless, thanks to NoDak for posting. I hadn't seen that article and it has a lot of interesting proposals beyond the ice arena. I know exactly what they're aiming for with the Illini Union South idea (as it's in a wide open area right next to the business school where I spent many hours of my life). For the average student, that actually would have the most massive impact out of any of those proposals - it would effectively create a new focal point of day-to-day activity on campus (particularly for the business school and other campus units like the colleges of education and agriculture/environmental sciences that in the south portion of the campus). Most of the construction over the past 10 to 15 years has been on the north side of campus where the engineering and computer science programs are located (as they're the part of the university that is gushing with donations from Silicon Valley-types and other wealthy alums).

I love the arts district idea, as well - it seems to be really aimed to connect a few arts buildings that are close to each other but not really looked at as a cohesive unit, so it's very logical on paper and could essentially create a new "attraction" on campus without even needing to build new facilities (e.g. that seems like a really high ROI project if it comes to fruition). My guess is they're wisely proposing to make it into a mini-version of Chicago's Museum Campus (where the Field Museum, Shedd Aquarium, Adler Planetarium and Soldier Field were all next to each other but never really felt connected as a cohesive area until they reorganized the streets and parking around there and put in green space in strategic areas to create the Museum Campus that we see today).

Is Illinois that spread out that the South Union really makes a difference? At Texas they built a new union, but the current one west central is as convenient to everything as the new one, which isn't far away in the east. Texas, at least the regularly used part of campus (the baseball stadium and parking lots go well to the east), stretches more north-south than east west. And the old union never seemed to be used anywhere near capacity. Actually when I was in school it was very underutilized (there was none for a couple of years while it was rebuilt so maybe people could have just not been in the habit of using it)

Now at Georgia, the South Campus (Ag school) is quite a hike from the North campus.

Students are probably paying for it with fees and probably approve the fees (which future students will pay), but colleges should be efficient with their dollars and they usually aren't when it comes to buildings. Athletics are even less efficient as they compete with facilities rather than (as you prefer) with directly paying athletes. Universities compete for students with fancy facilities as well and not so much on price.

Yes, Illinois' campus is incredibly spread out. Their website says it's 4,552 acres (over 7 square miles).

I looked on Google and the parts of campus with buildings on it is 2.3 miles North-South. East-West, it's about .8 miles wide in the Northern half and 2.0 miles wide in the Southern half.

When I went to Purdue, I thought Purdue it was spread out compared to where I went to grad school (Cincinnati, which oddly enough has almost the exact same number of students and employees as Purdue). But Illinois is at least twice as spread out as Purdue.
04-14-2017 10:49 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Frank the Tank Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,446
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 451
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #18
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
(04-14-2017 10:49 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 10:08 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 08:48 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  I see the reference to "moving" the Ice Arena. On its own, that does not automatically mean an upgraded Arena.

Where is any indication that the Ice Arena would be expanded to the seating needed for a Div I team?

They do mean a new ice arena here as the existing ice arena definitely cannot be physically moved -- it's a nearly 90-year old building. They just mean that the location of any proposed new ice arena is going to be much different than where the current ice arena is located. (In this case, they're saying it would effectively be next to Memorial Stadium.)

I've said many times before that if I were someone with a $100 million to spare, I'd totally fund a new Illini hockey program. I'd LOVE it. That being said, a new ice arena in and of itself doesn't mean a hockey program is going to be started. Such ice arena would be a bare minimum requirement and, frankly, the first priority might be more just to provide a modern ice arena for recreational use for the school and greater Champaign-Urbana community (as I noted that the existing ice arena is literally nearly 90 years old).

Regardless, thanks to NoDak for posting. I hadn't seen that article and it has a lot of interesting proposals beyond the ice arena. I know exactly what they're aiming for with the Illini Union South idea (as it's in a wide open area right next to the business school where I spent many hours of my life). For the average student, that actually would have the most massive impact out of any of those proposals - it would effectively create a new focal point of day-to-day activity on campus (particularly for the business school and other campus units like the colleges of education and agriculture/environmental sciences that in the south portion of the campus). Most of the construction over the past 10 to 15 years has been on the north side of campus where the engineering and computer science programs are located (as they're the part of the university that is gushing with donations from Silicon Valley-types and other wealthy alums).

I love the arts district idea, as well - it seems to be really aimed to connect a few arts buildings that are close to each other but not really looked at as a cohesive unit, so it's very logical on paper and could essentially create a new "attraction" on campus without even needing to build new facilities (e.g. that seems like a really high ROI project if it comes to fruition). My guess is they're wisely proposing to make it into a mini-version of Chicago's Museum Campus (where the Field Museum, Shedd Aquarium, Adler Planetarium and Soldier Field were all next to each other but never really felt connected as a cohesive area until they reorganized the streets and parking around there and put in green space in strategic areas to create the Museum Campus that we see today).

Is Illinois that spread out that the South Union really makes a difference? At Texas they built a new union, but the current one west central is as convenient to everything as the new one, which isn't far away in the east. Texas, at least the regularly used part of campus (the baseball stadium and parking lots go well to the east), stretches more north-south than east west. And the old union never seemed to be used anywhere near capacity. Actually when I was in school it was very underutilized (there was none for a couple of years while it was rebuilt so maybe people could have just not been in the habit of using it)

Now at Georgia, the South Campus (Ag school) is quite a hike from the North campus.

Students are probably paying for it with fees and probably approve the fees (which future students will pay), but colleges should be efficient with their dollars and they usually aren't when it comes to buildings. Athletics are even less efficient as they compete with facilities rather than (as you prefer) with directly paying athletes. Universities compete for students with fancy facilities as well and not so much on price.

Yes, Illinois' campus is incredibly spread out. Their website says it's 4,552 acres (over 7 square miles).

I looked on Google and the parts of campus with buildings on it is 2.3 miles North-South. East-West, it's about .8 miles wide in the Northern half and 2.0 miles wide in the Southern half.

When I went to Purdue, I thought Purdue it was spread out compared to where I went to grad school (Cincinnati, which oddly enough has almost the exact same number of students and employees as Purdue). But Illinois is at least twice as spread out as Purdue.

Yes, the Illinois campus is very spread out (especially North to South) and the main Union is completely packed at all hours of the day. My guess is that an Illinois Union South would have a public/private component to it since it is in a restaurant/food desert compared to most of the rest of campus - it would be the perfect place to have a food court/dining hall at the very least.

I understand the argument about the efficient use of funds and agree that there shouldn't be wasteful spending, but at the same time, when you're looking at who Illinois is competing with the most for students, those "soft" factors like facilities can mean a great deal. For the undergraduate business school in particular, its biggest direct competitors for students head-to-head are Michigan, Wisconsin and Indiana. Those 3 campuses are blessed with aesthetics (both natural and man-made) that are simply nicer to the average person than Illinois, so when the cost is often comparable, you see Illinois losing out on students on that factor. The academics have never been the question at Illinois in competing for students - when we lose someone to Wisconsin or Indiana even when the cost is about the same, it's often because of the unquantifiable "feel" from when someone walks across campus. (You see the same advantage with schools in particularly great college towns like Texas, Colorado, UVA and UNC. Michigan admittedly has an outstanding undergrad business program that's essentially as difficult to get into as an Ivy League school these days, so academic prestige is as much of a factor as Ann Arbor there.) A nicer quad for the business school might not be the determining factor one way or the other, but it's another piece of the overall picture in people choosing where they want to go to college. Illinois is competing for students that often have numerous choices (albeit I agree that the biggest help in recruiting would be to increase their financial aid packages).
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 11:50 AM by Frank the Tank.)
04-14-2017 11:46 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jrj84105 Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,081
Joined: Jan 2013
Reputation: 36
I Root For: Utes
Location:
Post: #19
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
(04-14-2017 10:29 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Gotta be culture.

Illinois I would consider an ice hockey state. Indiana, no. Even if that's not actually true!

That's pretty true. I think Illinois, which has always spent more on civic funding/projects than IN, just has more opportunities for playing hockey. There are arenas in many of the smaller cities in Illinois outside the Chicago area.

PS: this week was the first that I heard that hockey is next up after Lacrosse for Utah. Still uncertain when the Lacrosse move-up will happen.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 12:11 PM by jrj84105.)
04-14-2017 12:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Frank the Tank Offline
Hall of Famer
*

Posts: 10,446
Joined: Jun 2008
Reputation: 451
I Root For: Illinois/DePaul
Location: Chicago
Post: #20
RE: IllinI planning new ice ARENA? B1G Hockey?
(04-14-2017 10:29 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Gotta be culture.

Illinois I would consider an ice hockey state. Indiana, no. Even if that's not actually true!

I was just talking to someone who drives up from Indianapolis to the Chicago area 3 times per week so that their kid can play with a top-level youth hockey travel team (which apparently doesn't exist, at least at that top level, in the Indy area at all). (As a side note, the only way that it could ever be worth traveling 3 or 4 hours each way several times a week is if that kid actually makes it to the NHL.)
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 12:15 PM by Frank the Tank.)
04-14-2017 12:14 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2017 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2017 MyBB Group.