Gary and Geoff talk about the state of the program, transfers, Lawson, the incoming class, and past Tigers teams.

Gary lets loose a bit (for you 'rasslin fans he cuts a shoot) and I found it to be interesting.

http://www.espn929.com/media/audio-chann...kins-seg-1

(04-11-2017 08:54 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Gary and Geoff talk about the state of the program, transfers, Lawson, the incoming class, and past Tigers teams.

Gary lets loose a bit (for you 'rasslin fans he cuts a shoot) and I found it to be interesting.

http://www.espn929.com/media/audio-chann...kins-seg-1

give us the readers digest version, please

(04-11-2017 08:54 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Gary and Geoff talk about the state of the program, transfers, Lawson, the incoming class, and past Tigers teams.

Gary lets loose a bit (for you 'rasslin fans he cuts a shoot) and I found it to be interesting.

http://www.espn929.com/media/audio-chann...kins-seg-1

I thought it was "shoot the half"? As in the half Nelson.

they both make points. Basically no one on the team next year could start on Tic Price's worst teams.

Pass

(04-11-2017 09:17 AM)450bench Wrote:  Pass

No surprise.

They seem to think that Pastner somehow was better at coaching this program than Tubby Smith. Give me a break!!! Pastner lost more players than he graduated and couldn't coach a fish to swim. Tubby's biggest problem is that he is probably two years past when he should have retired. He went into this position thinking that the school would recruit itself and all he would have to do is coach up the players . What he didn't know was that Pastner was no longer able to recruit to Memphis because of how he was running the program. Memphis doesn't recruit itself anymore. This program was in need of a coach who was up to the task of hitting the road and recruiting like none other. Tubby obviously is not that. Now we are stuck in a situation where we need players, and Tubby seems to be behind a 8-ball because he is past his time of being on the road and looking in any and every gym for players. Sad day for the program.

(04-11-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:17 AM)450bench Wrote:  Pass

No surprise.

I've listened to these guys and know their collective take on the subject. I've also read your opinions and understand where you stand as well. I simply differ with the doomsday scenario that you and others who share your take continuously deliver.
One thing is for sure here. Either you're right and you called it early or you're wrong and will look compromised if the team does well. If you are right with the doomsday outlook, I'll be the first to acknowledge just that and tip my hat to you while joining your side.
But if you're wrong, and there are a bunch that agree with your stance, it will be very interesting to hear their perspective, and yours, on the situation.

I think it's ridiculously premature to jump off a cliff right now. We should let Tubby do things his way and evaluate at minimum during the season, or at the end and go from there.

(04-11-2017 10:15 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:17 AM)450bench Wrote:  Pass

No surprise.

I've listened to these guys and know their collective take on the subject. I've also read your opinions and understand where you stand as well. I simply differ with the doomsday scenario that you and others who share your take continuously deliver.
One thing is for sure here. Either you're right and you called it early or you're wrong and will look compromised if the team does well. If you are right with the doomsday outlook, I'll be the first to acknowledge just that and tip my hat to you while joining your side.
But if you're wrong, and there are a bunch that agree with your stance, it will be very interesting to hear their perspective, and yours, on the situation.

I think it's ridiculously premature to jump off a cliff right now. We should let Tubby do things his way and evaluate at minimum during the season, or at the end and go from there.

Do you think the roster will be better?

If so why?

The quality of juco players are down.

Ratings mean little

(04-11-2017 10:15 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:17 AM)450bench Wrote:  Pass

No surprise.

I've listened to these guys and know their collective take on the subject. I've also read your opinions and understand where you stand as well. I simply differ with the doomsday scenario that you and others who share your take continuously deliver.
One thing is for sure here. Either you're right and you called it early or you're wrong and will look compromised if the team does well. If you are right with the doomsday outlook, I'll be the first to acknowledge just that and tip my hat to you while joining your side.
But if you're wrong, and there are a bunch that agree with your stance, it will be very interesting to hear their perspective, and yours, on the situation.

I think it's ridiculously premature to jump off a cliff right now. We should let Tubby do things his way and evaluate at minimum during the season, or at the end and go from there.

That's why I put my thoughts out there. Accountability. It is all in black and white. If I am brazen enough to make these predictions, then there is evidence to prove my error.

I could be wrong. Probably not, because I'm not making the judgments based on "hope" "feeling" "or "emotion". I'm basing it on factual and historical performance results from similarly situated players.

(04-11-2017 10:18 AM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 10:15 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:17 AM)450bench Wrote:  Pass

No surprise.

I've listened to these guys and know their collective take on the subject. I've also read your opinions and understand where you stand as well. I simply differ with the doomsday scenario that you and others who share your take continuously deliver.
One thing is for sure here. Either you're right and you called it early or you're wrong and will look compromised if the team does well. If you are right with the doomsday outlook, I'll be the first to acknowledge just that and tip my hat to you while joining your side.
But if you're wrong, and there are a bunch that agree with your stance, it will be very interesting to hear their perspective, and yours, on the situation.

I think it's ridiculously premature to jump off a cliff right now. We should let Tubby do things his way and evaluate at minimum during the season, or at the end and go from there.

Do you think the roster will be better?

If so why?

The quality of juco players are down.

Ratings mean little

Keith, I think the answer to all that is, I don't know. Honestly that's the only answer.

The Lawson's, Markel etc. are talented, no question, but maybe they didn't play well together consistently. There were chemistry issues, without a doubt. Regardless, josh ruined the program and there is a true rebuild that happening. Some may like it and some may not. It is what it is.

Here's what I would expect this coming year. More fire from the players, more fire from the coach and more teamwork and cohesiveness among the players. I'd expect there to be some hidden talent on this team and the beauty of that is we don't know who or where that will come from.

I want to give Tubby a chance to do things his way with less bs from outside elements. If he fails let's move on. But we've got to give it a chance to succeed before we stamp it as a failure.

(04-11-2017 10:22 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 10:15 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:17 AM)450bench Wrote:  Pass

No surprise.

I've listened to these guys and know their collective take on the subject. I've also read your opinions and understand where you stand as well. I simply differ with the doomsday scenario that you and others who share your take continuously deliver.
One thing is for sure here. Either you're right and you called it early or you're wrong and will look compromised if the team does well. If you are right with the doomsday outlook, I'll be the first to acknowledge just that and tip my hat to you while joining your side.
But if you're wrong, and there are a bunch that agree with your stance, it will be very interesting to hear their perspective, and yours, on the situation.

I think it's ridiculously premature to jump off a cliff right now. We should let Tubby do things his way and evaluate at minimum during the season, or at the end and go from there.

That's why I put my thoughts out there. Accountability. It is all in black and white. If I am brazen enough to make these predictions, then there is evidence to prove my error.

I could be wrong. Probably not, because I'm not making the judgments based on "hope" "feeling" "or "emotion". I'm basing it on factual and historical performance results from similarly situated players.

And we are sure gonna find out who is right. If I'm wrong, I'll certainly admit that. Hell, I've got a lot of experience with that.

(04-11-2017 10:18 AM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 10:15 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:17 AM)450bench Wrote:  Pass

No surprise.

I've listened to these guys and know their collective take on the subject. I've also read your opinions and understand where you stand as well. I simply differ with the doomsday scenario that you and others who share your take continuously deliver.
One thing is for sure here. Either you're right and you called it early or you're wrong and will look compromised if the team does well. If you are right with the doomsday outlook, I'll be the first to acknowledge just that and tip my hat to you while joining your side.
But if you're wrong, and there are a bunch that agree with your stance, it will be very interesting to hear their perspective, and yours, on the situation.

I think it's ridiculously premature to jump off a cliff right now. We should let Tubby do things his way and evaluate at minimum during the season, or at the end and go from there.

Do you think the roster will be better?

If so why?

The quality of juco players are down.

Ratings mean little

Gary gave out the last five years of #19 juco player and they did not total to what Detric had last year in points and rebounds. I have been here in Memphis since 1967 and this roster will rival the last year Iba was here.

(04-11-2017 10:30 AM)Strat57 Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 10:18 AM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 10:15 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:17 AM)450bench Wrote:  Pass

No surprise.

I've listened to these guys and know their collective take on the subject. I've also read your opinions and understand where you stand as well. I simply differ with the doomsday scenario that you and others who share your take continuously deliver.
One thing is for sure here. Either you're right and you called it early or you're wrong and will look compromised if the team does well. If you are right with the doomsday outlook, I'll be the first to acknowledge just that and tip my hat to you while joining your side.
But if you're wrong, and there are a bunch that agree with your stance, it will be very interesting to hear their perspective, and yours, on the situation.

I think it's ridiculously premature to jump off a cliff right now. We should let Tubby do things his way and evaluate at minimum during the season, or at the end and go from there.

Do you think the roster will be better?

If so why?

The quality of juco players are down.

Ratings mean little

Gary gave out the last five years of #19 juco player and they did not total to what Detric had last year in points and rebounds. I have been here in Memphis since 1967 and this roster will rival the last year Iba was here.

JUCO:
#19
2016: Conor McDougal 0.3 ppg
2015: Fredrick Edmond 12.2 ppg, 6 rpg (kicked out of school in 1st year)
2014: Carlos Morris 11.1 ppg (kicked off team 2nd season)
2013: Stephane Manga 3.0 ppg 1.8 rpg
2012: DJ Bennett 2.8 ppg 2.0 rpg
2011: Jeremy Adams 2.3 ppg, transferred to Grand Canyon 5.8 ppg

#23
2016: Branden Jenkins 2.2 ppg
2015: Torren Jones 10.5 ppg 8 rpg (kicked off team after 21 games)
2014: Dinjiyl Walker 3.3 ppg both seasons
2013: Chris Griffin 5.7 ppg 4.0 rpg (kicked off of team 2nd season)
2012: DD Scarver 11.9 ppg at Marshall, transferred to TX Southern 2nd year 12.6 ppg
2011: Kevin Foster 8 ppg 6 rpg

That 20 minutes of radio was brutal.

(04-11-2017 08:54 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Gary and Geoff talk about the state of the program, transfers, Lawson, the incoming class, and past Tigers teams.

Gary lets loose a bit (for you 'rasslin fans he cuts a shoot) and I found it to be interesting.

http://www.espn929.com/media/audio-chann...kins-seg-1

Gary has been making the same basic points since last week.

1. He believes that we should have backed up the brinks truck and sacrificed a 3rd assistant spot to keep Keelon and his 4 top 50 sons plus one top 10 nephew.

2. He keeps referencing the stats over the last 5 years for the #19 and #22 juco recruits. They are not good stats.

For #1, I have a few issues. Keelon's first two boys that actually have a D1 resume, didnt get us anywhere special. Basically two 19 win seasons and no post season. The first season was with Josh and a full team of players that included 2 McD all americans, 6 top 100 HS players, the #5 Juco player and a former CUSA player of the year transfer. Cant blame lack of surrounding talent on this team. They went 19-15. Sub .500 in AAC. No post season. The second season was with first year coach Tubby and a depleted team that included 1 McD all american and 3 top 100 HS players. They went 19-13 and were .500 in AAC. No post season.

To be fair, in year one they were both freshmen and KJ was hurt most of the season. To be fair, in year two they had very little surrounding talent and were learning an actual basketball system which Im sure was difficult. To be fair, tubby produced more with the depleted team than Josh was able to produce the year before with a full roster of talent.

As for Chandler and Jonathon, they both project to be top 50 players. they could be incredible. But the same underlying Lawson complication would still be in place. The same one that seemingly disrupted chemistry over the past 2 seasons. That's risky in my opinion and possibly not worth the production you'd get out of either of them. Even if they were world beaters, best case scenario is you get them for a 1 and done season. Worst case scenario it complicates chemistry and there is never an actual "team" which is pretty clearly important in CBB.

As for the cousin, DJ Jeffries projects to be a top 10 recruit and possibly a McD all american. He is right here in our back yard. He is the nephew of momma Lawson. He has offers from everyone. Including Calipari. Tubby isn't beating Cal if it comes down to highest bidder. The Lawsons aren't going to talk them out of $ and convince them to come here for free. And there will not be a position to offer. So that seems very unlikely and even the media has said for over a year that tubby wont get Jeffries. They never even mentioned this family connection as far as I know until recently. It has been mentioned that Tubby has only spoken to Jeffries once in over a year here. He must not have liked the conversation. He wont recruit those types of players. Time will tell if he can have success without them.

For #2, Gary doesn't mention playing time over those 5 years with the #19 and #22 Juco players. They were all recruited to sit at the end of the bench and fill a roster most likely. Tubby is recruiting these players to actually be coached and contribute minutes. It is not at all ideal and is certainly not what we are used to. I wish Tubby would recruit top 100 HS players but he doesn't. Yet. He has only been here for a year. Maybe he will. I hope he does.

Everything else is just noise. Keelon is good. Keelon is bad. I think truth is somewhere in the middle. The only fact is that he blatantly took a job here that he wasn't qualified for and his children were the only reason he got it. It may have been the kid's idea. It may have been planned for years. It may have just fell in their lap as has been reported. Maybe Josh was forced. Maybe tubby was forced. Maybe admin made promises and could not deliver. None of it matters. The UofM was ultimately not very successful with this experiment.

Saturday morning phone call

(04-11-2017 10:50 AM)Easterwood Wrote:  Saturday morning phone call

Tubby's got a tee time Saturday morning. Better make it a 4pm Saturday dinner meeting at the Picadilly.

(04-11-2017 10:44 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 10:30 AM)Strat57 Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 10:18 AM)Easterwood Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 10:15 AM)450bench Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  No surprise.

I've listened to these guys and know their collective take on the subject. I've also read your opinions and understand where you stand as well. I simply differ with the doomsday scenario that you and others who share your take continuously deliver.
One thing is for sure here. Either you're right and you called it early or you're wrong and will look compromised if the team does well. If you are right with the doomsday outlook, I'll be the first to acknowledge just that and tip my hat to you while joining your side.
But if you're wrong, and there are a bunch that agree with your stance, it will be very interesting to hear their perspective, and yours, on the situation.

I think it's ridiculously premature to jump off a cliff right now. We should let Tubby do things his way and evaluate at minimum during the season, or at the end and go from there.

Do you think the roster will be better?

If so why?

The quality of juco players are down.

Ratings mean little

Gary gave out the last five years of #19 juco player and they did not total to what Detric had last year in points and rebounds. I have been here in Memphis since 1967 and this roster will rival the last year Iba was here.

JUCO:
#19
2016: Conor McDougal 0.3 ppg
2015: Fredrick Edmond 12.2 ppg, 6 rpg (kicked out of school in 1st year)
2014: Carlos Morris 11.1 ppg (kicked off team 2nd season)
2013: Stephane Manga 3.0 ppg 1.8 rpg
2012: DJ Bennett 2.8 ppg 2.0 rpg

#23
2016: Branden Jenkins 2.2 ppg
2015: Torren Jones 10.5 ppg 8 rpg (kicked off team after 21 games)
2014: Dinjiyl Walker 3.3 ppg both seasons
2013: Chris Griffin 5.7 ppg 4.0 rpg (kicked off of team 2nd season)
2012: DD Scarver 11.9 ppg at Marshall, transferred to TX Southern 2nd year 12.6 ppg

That's no way to do a regression.

I'm sure your point would be confirmed if you did the math. But 10 random data points cherry picked is statistically meaningless. It would be very difficult to built an accurate model for JUCO production.

Either way, no one person is going to replace DL. But hopefully we are playing more than 6 players in our rotation next year. The team will be bad next year. around 12 wins for the center of the distribution.

(04-11-2017 10:47 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  That 20 minutes of radio was brutal.

It couldn't have been worse than the 10 minutes I just heard with Cowboy on 560