So, does UCSD have any other Division 1 options? WAC? Would Big Sky take UCSD and UC-Davis Olympic sports? Olympic sports travel partner with SDSU in the MWC?

Would the other UC's in the Big West realign to a new conference with UCSD and perhaps Hawaii?

(04-17-2017 12:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  It does a terrible job of serving the state's residents.

For example: if you took California's system and applied it to a state the size of Ohio, it'd be about the same size and quality as Ohio's system would be if you shut down Cincinnati, Miami, and Ohio U. This is despite California spending 70% more per state resident.

CSU is the system to serve the state's residents. End of story.

UC is a global leader in the research of fundamental science and development of breakthrough technology, cures, and ideas. It doesn't just target the best in brightest in California, which again is correct.

(04-17-2017 01:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 12:22 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  It does a terrible job of serving the state's residents.

For example: if you took California's system and applied it to a state the size of Ohio, it'd be about the same size and quality as Ohio's system would be if you shut down Cincinnati, Miami, and Ohio U. This is despite California spending 70% more per state resident.

CSU is the system to serve the state's residents. End of story.

UC is a global leader in the research of fundamental science and development of breakthrough technology, cures, and ideas. It doesn't just target the best in brightest in California, which again is correct.

Then why does the UC system receive such massive state funding?

Even if I accept your idea, I would still argue that the UC system does a poor job. The UC system actually educates fewer doctoral students per capita than the state flagships of most other states. I just looked it up and California's public schools produce about 7,000 doctoral graduates per year (6,967 in 2015). Per-capita, this ranks 45th in the USA.

Also, if you're saying that the CSU system is the state's only higher ed system designed to educate California's citizens, then it is failing miserably. It's nowhere near big enough, and 2/3 of its schools are simply not very good educational institutions.

(04-17-2017 01:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Then why does the UC system receive such massive state funding?

It's one of the primary drivers of the state's economy and attracting global talent to the state. They'd be insane not to massively invest in it.

(04-17-2017 01:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  The UC system actually educates fewer doctoral students per capita than the state flagships of most other states.

Dollar and impact of the work is more important than the number of PhD graduates granted.

(04-17-2017 01:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  It's nowhere near big enough, and 2/3 of its schools are simply not very good educational institutions.

Not sure I buy that. Why do you think those things?

(04-17-2017 01:32 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I just looked it up and California's public schools produce about 7,000 doctoral graduates per year (6,967 in 2015). Per-capita, this ranks 45th in the USA.

Why does per capita matter?

Quality, not quantity.

Mark Zeigler reports that UCSD only received four or five votes and the Cal States appeared to have all voted no as a bloc.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

Also...

The Big West is currently stable, and there are some who believe UCSD — despite all its academic prowess — doesn’t offer enough commercial “opportunity” given its low profile in the San Diego market.

The Big West might be holding out for the school that does, San Diego State, if it ever finds a football-only conference that offers more financial return than the Mountain West. That would push the Aztecs’ other sports to the Big West, which was the plan before SDSU’s 2013 move to the Big East in football collapsed.

Others talk about shedding the reputation of being the conference where Div. IIs become Div. I.

And a lesson UCSD won't forget.

The approach of gaining student and faculty support, then submitting an application to the Big West, then saying “Here we are, let us in,” clearly didn’t work.

So what's it going to take for the BW to change their minds on UC San Diego? I see the answer as 12 with either Grand Canyon and NMSU, or a Bakersfield/Sac State and Portland State or NAU.

UCSD should go to the WAC and do their best to dominate it. Hopefully a UCSD/CSUB combo is the solution. SDSU going to the BW and playing football elsewhere is blind misguided fantasy now. Fisher is gone, so i doubt bball will be the same.

I wonder if there hope is that SDSU and the stadium issue becomes a problem where they have to drop fb. I also highly doubt SDSU would do that.

What's it going to take? If the Cal State schools are a solid no bloc against UCSD, then the answer is, they're never getting in. It's right there in the article:

Quote:The Tritons got four votes from their UC brethren. Hawaii may or may not have joined them. The four CSUs appear to have voted no as a bloc.

Zeigler also suggests that my guess about SDSU telling them, "Don't invite UCSD if you ever want a chance of getting SDSU" might be a correct guess.

If it's true that the voting came down to UC vs CSU voting blocks, with Hawaii as an unknown, does that mean that this wasn't really based on something like market analysis and tournament credit splitting? If it's really about the CSUs wanting something, what is it that they want? And does UCSD have the pull to give it to them? For all the talk about the UC/CSU divide, is UCSD's Div 1 membership really the issue that's going to move mountains?

I corresponded with Zeigler and those votes are complete speculation on his part. He conceded it was just as likely UCs rejected UCSD because they would be competing for the same UC eligible athletes. So I would not put too much into the UC and CSU split as a reason.

The UCSD referendum wording only mentions a fee to move to D-I pending a conference invite, No actual conference was specified. I have the wording on a PDF from UCSD AS. This should not be confused with the campaign material which prominently mentioned the Big West, but even that used hedge words.

So yes the WAC is an option. Jeff Hurd when asked gave very careful answers that basically said adding more California schools is a priority.

It would have served UCSD well to be up-front and say that from the beginning. "Yes, obviously we want into the Big West. However, in the event the Big West doesn't admit us this referendum still applies to all Division 1 conferences." That would have prepared the school for any unexpected results like this one.

But since their D1 feasability report from 2011, they have not looked anywhere else. It read that the Big Sky, WAC and MW were non-starters because of football and the WCC because it's all private. The feasibility report has only mentioned the BW as their realistic home

(04-27-2017 01:58 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  Mark Zeigler reports that UCSD only received four or five votes and the Cal States appeared to have all voted no as a bloc.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

Also...

The Big West is currently stable, and there are some who believe UCSD — despite all its academic prowess — doesn’t offer enough commercial “opportunity” given its low profile in the San Diego market.

The Big West might be holding out for the school that does, San Diego State, if it ever finds a football-only conference that offers more financial return than the Mountain West. That would push the Aztecs’ other sports to the Big West, which was the plan before SDSU’s 2013 move to the Big East in football collapsed.

Others talk about shedding the reputation of being the conference where Div. IIs become Div. I.

And a lesson UCSD won't forget.

The approach of gaining student and faculty support, then submitting an application to the Big West, then saying “Here we are, let us in,” clearly didn’t work.

Seriously? Big West thinks SDSU is just going to come back?

Like the context of what just happened to get SDSU to almost go there not long ago is so commonplace it's likely to reoccur?

Big East/AAC had AQ. That was the prize everyone wanted then. That doesn't exist anymore. SDSU isn't going football-only to some major...if a major wants SDSU, it's going to take ALL of SDSU.

Wow. If that's what some in the Big West think. Just...wow. I know SDSU isn't happy with the money in MWC, but what's the reality SDSU wants to come back to the Big West?

(04-07-2017 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 01:37 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  California politics pure and simple.

I wonder if San Diego State had a hand in this? Maybe SDSU quietly told the Big West members, "You guys wanted SDSU before when we were leaving the MWC, and it might happen again someday if we find a place for our football team. If you want to have a chance to get SDSU in the future, then don't let UCSD into the Big West."

But why lol......

(04-15-2017 10:03 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  No they haven't, you liar.

No one uses Cal Davis.

Actually people do......

Heck, I still use Cal Berkley and it's not to troll. It's just how many people have heard the schools referred to as.

(04-13-2017 01:27 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 03:28 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 07:26 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:20 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I think there are some in the Big West want to merge with MWC to create multi-bid access to the 68 team field. MWC does get multi-bids than the Big West. Big West does not want Cal-San Diego because they do not want a team in a duplicate market.

Wow, you win the tinfoil hat award for the week!

It is a known fact from news sources that some ADs was talking about this a few years ago. Which is why several Big West schools were talking about restarting or adding football to be part of the MWC merger.

It was in this time period of 2013 that the talks about football returning to three of the schools in the Big West. Long Beach State, Fullerton State and Northridge State

Before bashing me for typing them that way, I have always known them as the city name and state at the end. It gives them a separate identity than the San Diego State.

As it is, MWC does not have a foothold in the Los Angeles tv market. Getting any of the Big West LA area schools in could help out.

"A known fact"--Wow.
I'm not going to bash you DavidSt...but what you wrote here is simply not true. There was never any talk any where of a Big West MWC merger. I'd love to read a linked article proving me wrong. I don't count old posts by you as proof. I'll wait for evidence of the" known fact".

It was in the Long Beach local paper website that you can't access anymore with quotes from the AD of Long Beach State saying that.

That's not a very good source. When news sites take things down it's usually because they article is based on false information or is literally stupid.

(04-10-2017 09:37 AM)SactoHornetAlum Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 06:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 04:32 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 03:22 PM)SactoHornetAlum Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 02:54 PM)AZcats Wrote:  Since when is Cal Poly in northern California?

Everything north of LA County is Northern California

And everything north of San Francisco is Oregon.

Geographically, San Jose is in southern California. (just barely in the southern half, if you're measuring north-south distance)

Madera is exactly halfway in the state. There is symbolic pine tree on the north side and palm tree on the south along SR 99 at about PM 5.71.

I would not really consider San Jose southern California. Now the cities just south of it like Gilroy. But San Jose is still part of the Bay Area.

(04-27-2017 03:06 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 12:10 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-07-2017 01:37 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  California politics pure and simple.

I wonder if San Diego State had a hand in this? Maybe SDSU quietly told the Big West members, "You guys wanted SDSU before when we were leaving the MWC, and it might happen again someday if we find a place for our football team. If you want to have a chance to get SDSU in the future, then don't let UCSD into the Big West."

But why lol......

I see no benefit for SDSU to keep UCSD out of Division 1. They shouldn't even care what the Tritons do.

But my guess is because if the MW is consistently a one bid league going forward or if it ever implodes, the Big West is always SDSU's fallback option. And the last thing they want is for someone to take that security blanket away, especially UCSD.

(04-27-2017 03:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Seriously? Big West thinks SDSU is just going to come back?

Like the context of what just happened to get SDSU to almost go there not long ago is so commonplace it's likely to reoccur?

Big East/AAC had AQ. That was the prize everyone wanted then. That doesn't exist anymore. SDSU isn't going football-only to some major...if a major wants SDSU, it's going to take ALL of SDSU.

Wow. If that's what some in the Big West think. Just...wow. I know SDSU isn't happy with the money in MWC, but what's the reality SDSU wants to come back to the Big West?

Merely the reporter speculating. But it does hold some weight. In this decade the BW has added Hawaii and nearly got back Boise and SDSU. I guess Zeigler believes settling for a UCSD or Cal State Bakersfield would be a poor choice. There's no need to expand unless a new member strengthens the conference. Like Grand Canyon and NMSU would do...

(04-27-2017 04:37 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 03:01 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Seriously? Big West thinks SDSU is just going to come back?

Like the context of what just happened to get SDSU to almost go there not long ago is so commonplace it's likely to reoccur?

Big East/AAC had AQ. That was the prize everyone wanted then. That doesn't exist anymore. SDSU isn't going football-only to some major...if a major wants SDSU, it's going to take ALL of SDSU.

Wow. If that's what some in the Big West think. Just...wow. I know SDSU isn't happy with the money in MWC, but what's the reality SDSU wants to come back to the Big West?

Merely the reporter speculating. But it does hold some weight. In this decade the BW has added Hawaii and nearly got back Boise and SDSU. I guess Zeigler believes settling for a UCSD or Cal State Bakersfield would be a poor choice. There's no need to expand unless a new member strengthens the conference. Like Grand Canyon and NMSU would do...

Because the MWC as bad at it is right now was 7th in attendance in basketball, and most MWC arenas are 10k to 16k. SDSU doesn't like that. They want to be in a conference with gyms that are 1000 or less. They don't like the measly 1.7 million in tv money they get from the MWC. They want the 50k they'd get from the Big West. They don't want to play UNLV and UNM in basketball. They want to play the Gouchos in front of 300 fans.