(04-21-2017 12:04 AM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 11:59 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  The Big West has voted no on UC San Diego.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

That is surprising. From an athletic standpoint inviting them would have been stupid, but I was sure the politics would get them in.

I kept saying UCSD by themselves is a step backwards. But that's only partially what has kept them out. Surprisingly it's the Cal State - UC politics.

Things have changed with our massive success and I'm sure the Big West would love CSUB if they can find a partner. CSUB is on the up and up the Big West is on the decline. I'm not sure if CSUB would even want to join the Big West though.

(04-21-2017 02:09 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Things have changed with our massive success and I'm sure the Big West would love CSUB if they can find a partner. CSUB is on the up and up the Big West is on the decline. I'm not sure if CSUB would even want to join the Big West though.

We did split with you in our worst year ever, and your best ever. And we have a new coach. Don't bury the BW yet.

I'd be more concerned about NMSU losing their head coach two years in a row.

An incredibly lucky 2 point win in OT. The Big West has shown no signs of rebounding big next year. Hawaii has had players transferring and will have another down year. You don't just bounce back from being 25th in conference RPI rankings to back to normal in a year. This should be very worrying to you. The WAC on the other hand had a conference RPI ranking of 17 and will be incredibly strong next year and I bet the top 4 teams in the WAC next year would beat the best Big West team. NMSU just hired a better coach than Weir. They will be fine. I believe the WAC will continue to be better than the Big West for years to come.

CSUB is better off in the WAC. They honestly are. That's not a knock on the Big West either.

Adding UCSD to Cal Baptist, and then maybe Azusa would give a nice 4 team block in Southern California

(04-20-2017 11:14 AM)RunnerBall Wrote:  I see we have another 'Runners fan on. Welcome to the board. If Clarity brought you on, too bad we don't have a bonus for him for bringing in new members. Maybe a few Reputation points, but I don't have that privilege yet.
Perhaps....CP can help me out with that....since he ....appreciates....new CSUB fans.

Glad to see the Runners having D-1 success. Barnes has been a Godsend.

Without him I don't even want to think of where we would be.

Not sure if you guys remember, before Barnes we had Kieth Brown. A good guy, but never really achieved much with the 'Runners. He was replaced by Barnes (and headed to NMSU as asst for a few years). Barnes was a bit of a gamble, and at first times were tough. But the last two years as you know were very good. IMO, community now has buy -in much like or greater than DII heydays.

(04-21-2017 01:55 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(04-20-2017 07:07 PM)NuMexAg Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 10:43 PM)RunnerBall Wrote:  In other news....
Not that exciting of a story, but FYI..

SDUT: "UCSD's way forward to Div. I"

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

Based on this story, and other reports that the BW vote was entirely along UC/Cal St lines, I can't see UCSD joining the WAC.

The BW athletic directors unanimously wanted UCSD. So, they don't need to improve or grow their athletic program in order to get in. They need to convince 2 of 4 Cal State presidents to vote for them. I doubt membership in the WAC is going to advance that cause much.

I think they are more likely to spend time trying to convince 4 UC presidents to vote for Bakersfield.

If "there is no appetite for Bakersfield" or football (Sac State), then UCSD has to try to align with someone outside of California.

The BW as a whole might find Grand Canyon hard to stomach but they may be the best compromise. UCs vote for Grand Canyon, the Cal State's vote for UCSD. Azusa Pacific eventually moves up to the WAC and everything's a done deal.

I think getting the BW presidents/chancellors to agree to an unbalanced CSU-UC split is more likely then getting UC chancellors to vote in favor of a for profit private christian university.

Man, I really hate to do this, but the WAC may need to start thinking about creating a power play, and consider a football option so they can have a realistic chance of wooing schools like Sac, NAU, PSU or SUU. Adding more D2s isn't a horrible option, but the conference needs established programs within the region, and tangible options if there is any movement in the near future. As has been discussed before, the Sky has a stranglehold on its programs. Being the only FCS football conference in the west means they can force deals like the one they have with Sac. Schools might want to be part of a conference like the WAC, but he forced to stay in the Sky or face being kicked out with no league at all for its football program.

I don't want this to be construed as some sort of plan to get the WAC back to an FBS league, or as an enticement for non-football schools to add the sport. A second FCS league would simply aid the WAC in getting some of the pacific or southwest schools interested with a valid option. I would even propose the WAC administration create a completely separate football-only conference, much like the MVC/MVFC. The Missouri Valley conferences share offices, schools and some admin staff, but are not the same league. They operate completely independent of the other. This way, football interests do not interfere with that of those who do not sponsor the sport.

Anyway, it's a thought.

I think it could be more the opposite - that the WAC may have a stronger long-term plan by being the non-football out for any Big Sky schools thinking of dropping football.

FCS football is relatively expensive for most FCS schools - given the lack of good revenue options, and in this day of ever tightening budgets and shrinking TV money for non Power programs, I could see some of the more squeezed FCS schools just hanging it up on football. And the WAC would be a great landing place for them.

My guess is we are a few years away from that. But there is a definite trend in cost containment now - and I think the logical solution to that for some will be dropping football.

(04-21-2017 02:09 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Things have changed with our massive success and I'm sure the Big West would love CSUB if they can find a partner. CSUB is on the up and up the Big West is on the decline. I'm not sure if CSUB would even want to join the Big West though.

Although the WAC is still striving to build conference stability; by adding more programs to fill the regional gaps. The quality of WAC basketball is benefiting from having schools in multiple talent rich States.

I was looking at the Big West rosters, their teams gets over 50% of it players from just one state; California. And, they get a little less than 30% of their players from the rest of the USA. The rest, approximately 20%, come from overseas.

On the other hand, the WAC gets only 11% of its' players from California, approximately 65% come from the rest of the USA, and about 24% come from overseas. Like California, the WAC also draws about 10-12% for its' players from the states of Texas and Illinois.

(04-23-2017 12:15 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 02:09 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Things have changed with our massive success and I'm sure the Big West would love CSUB if they can find a partner. CSUB is on the up and up the Big West is on the decline. I'm not sure if CSUB would even want to join the Big West though.

Although the WAC is still striving to build conference stability; by adding more programs to fill the regional gaps. The quality of WAC basketball is benefiting from having schools in multiple talent rich States.

I was looking at the Big West rosters, their teams gets over 50% of it players from just one state; California. And, they get a little less than 30% of their players from the rest of the USA. The rest, approximately 20%, come from overseas.

On the other hand, the WAC gets only 11% of its' players from California, approximately 65% come from the rest of the USA, and about 24% come from overseas. Like California, the WAC also draws about 10-12% for its' players from the states of Texas and Illinois.

Quite the breakdown, Pistol. Good job!

(04-23-2017 12:15 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 02:09 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Things have changed with our massive success and I'm sure the Big West would love CSUB if they can find a partner. CSUB is on the up and up the Big West is on the decline. I'm not sure if CSUB would even want to join the Big West though.

Although the WAC is still striving to build conference stability; by adding more programs to fill the regional gaps. The quality of WAC basketball is benefiting from having schools in multiple talent rich States.

I was looking at the Big West rosters, their teams gets over 50% of it players from just one state; California. And, they get a little less than 30% of their players from the rest of the USA. The rest, approximately 20%, come from overseas.

On the other hand, the WAC gets only 11% of its' players from California, approximately 65% come from the rest of the USA, and about 24% come from overseas. Like California, the WAC also draws about 10-12% for its' players from the states of Texas and Illinois.

Some of that may have to do with the fact that when you grow up in California, it is preached to you just how good the California schools are. The other part of that may be part of the fact that California isn't really a basketball hotbed, where places like Illinois and Texas are.

(04-23-2017 08:51 AM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 12:15 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 02:09 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Things have changed with our massive success and I'm sure the Big West would love CSUB if they can find a partner. CSUB is on the up and up the Big West is on the decline. I'm not sure if CSUB would even want to join the Big West though.

Although the WAC is still striving to build conference stability; by adding more programs to fill the regional gaps. The quality of WAC basketball is benefiting from having schools in multiple talent rich States.

I was looking at the Big West rosters, their teams gets over 50% of it players from just one state; California. And, they get a little less than 30% of their players from the rest of the USA. The rest, approximately 20%, come from overseas.

On the other hand, the WAC gets only 11% of its' players from California, approximately 65% come from the rest of the USA, and about 24% come from overseas. Like California, the WAC also draws about 10-12% for its' players from the states of Texas and Illinois.

Some of that may have to do with the fact that when you grow up in California, it is preached to you just how good the California schools are. The other part of that may be part of the fact that California isn't really a basketball hotbed, where places like Illinois and Texas are.

I think California has a lot of basketball talent. However, it is well scouted and evaluated. A lot of programs around the country recruit California. If eight BWC mid-major programs are living almost solely on one States' recruits, the level of talent starts to degrades after a lot of P5 programs plucked away most of the 5, 4, and 3-star players.

Cal State Bakersfield has built up their program by leaving the their State to find players. And recruiting other talent rich States and less scouted regions to find good players. Bakersfield is fortunate to have a head coaches who has strong recruiting ties in other regions other than just the West Coast.

And, maybe NMSU weakness of being located in a State which has minimal talent, also becomes a strength because it forces NMSU to hire coaches who can recruit other regions of the country. California is to the west. And, Texas is to the east. And, if NMSU can hired a coach who has ties to another region or two as well, NMSU has recruiting pipelines spanning the country and possibly even outside the US borders; like our last 10 years.

Yep the recruiting ties Barnes has are nice, it's what landed us Jarkel Joiner who is going to be really really good. He relied on using JUCO players to build the program and now that it's built he is recruiting high schoolers. Our two best players and legends of the program now Jaylin Airington and Dedrick Basile are from Illinois and Texas respectively. Now Barnes is looking more in Cali for talent that we are known and got Darin Person Jr who had an offer from Fresno State. JUCOs are by far the most efficient way to build a program.

(04-23-2017 10:48 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 08:51 AM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 12:15 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(04-21-2017 02:09 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Things have changed with our massive success and I'm sure the Big West would love CSUB if they can find a partner. CSUB is on the up and up the Big West is on the decline. I'm not sure if CSUB would even want to join the Big West though.

Although the WAC is still striving to build conference stability; by adding more programs to fill the regional gaps. The quality of WAC basketball is benefiting from having schools in multiple talent rich States.

I was looking at the Big West rosters, their teams gets over 50% of it players from just one state; California. And, they get a little less than 30% of their players from the rest of the USA. The rest, approximately 20%, come from overseas.

On the other hand, the WAC gets only 11% of its' players from California, approximately 65% come from the rest of the USA, and about 24% come from overseas. Like California, the WAC also draws about 10-12% for its' players from the states of Texas and Illinois.

Some of that may have to do with the fact that when you grow up in California, it is preached to you just how good the California schools are. The other part of that may be part of the fact that California isn't really a basketball hotbed, where places like Illinois and Texas are.

I think California has a lot of basketball talent. However, it is well scouted and evaluated. A lot of programs around the country recruit California. If eight BWC mid-major programs are living almost solely on one States' recruits, the level of talent starts to degrades after a lot of P5 programs plucked away most of the 5, 4, and 3-star players.

Cal State Bakersfield has built up their program by leaving the their State to find players. And recruiting other talent rich States and less scouted regions to find good players. Bakersfield is fortunate to have a head coaches who has strong recruiting ties in other regions other than just the West Coast.

And, maybe NMSU weakness of being located in a State which has minimal talent, also becomes a strength because it forces NMSU to hire coaches who can recruit other regions of the country. California is to the west. And, Texas is to the east. And, if NMSU can hired a coach who has ties to another region or two as well, NMSU has recruiting pipelines spanning the country and possibly even outside the US borders; like our last 10 years.

I'm just speaking as someone who grew up in California. I was indoctrinated when in high school that California public schools are so much more superior as compared to other schools, despite how impacted every single one of them is. I think that there is decent talent in California, but not nearly as loaded with talent that is in states like Illinois, Texas, or even other states in the South.

(04-23-2017 02:04 PM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  I'm just speaking as someone who grew up in California. I was indoctrinated when in high school that California public schools are so much more superior as compared to other schools, despite how impacted every single one of them is. I think that there is decent talent in California, but not nearly as loaded with talent that is in states like Illinois, Texas, or even other states in the South.

I think there is a ton of talent in California in all sports. Just look at the NBA MVP race and the top three are all California kids (Russell Westbrook, James Hardin and Kawhi Leonard). Or look at the 15 players that made the All-NBA team from 2016. Five of the fifteen (Westbrook, Leonard, Paul George, Damian Lillard and Klay Thompson) are California kids. Leonard ended up at San Diego State. George at Fresno State. Thompson at Washington State, his only PAC-12 offer. Lillard at Weber State. Westbrook at UCLA, but was not ranked in the rivals top 150. He was a late recruit to UCLA. There is a lot of talent and competition out in California. Players can get missed by the Pac-12 and other power conference schools.

The Big West is centered in Southern California and is competing with UCLA, USC, the Lakers, the Clippers, the Kings and the Ducks. They don't get the attention they would in other parts of the country. A talented recruit is looking at the Pac-12, then the MWC, then the WCC.

The Big West is competing with the WAC and other conferences. There is no one in the Big West that is recruiting at the level NMSU and GCU are at this point. Right now, the WAC looks more exciting...

(04-23-2017 04:48 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(04-23-2017 02:04 PM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  I'm just speaking as someone who grew up in California. I was indoctrinated when in high school that California public schools are so much more superior as compared to other schools, despite how impacted every single one of them is. I think that there is decent talent in California, but not nearly as loaded with talent that is in states like Illinois, Texas, or even other states in the South.

I think there is a ton of talent in California in all sports. Just look at the NBA MVP race and the top three are all California kids (Russell Westbrook, James Hardin and Kawhi Leonard). Or look at the 15 players that made the All-NBA team from 2016. Five of the fifteen (Westbrook, Leonard, Paul George, Damian Lillard and Klay Thompson) are California kids. Leonard ended up at San Diego State. George at Fresno State. Thompson at Washington State, his only PAC-12 offer. Lillard at Weber State. Westbrook at UCLA, but was not ranked in the rivals top 150. He was a late recruit to UCLA. There is a lot of talent and competition out in California. Players can get missed by the Pac-12 and other power conference schools.

The Big West is centered in Southern California and is competing with UCLA, USC, the Lakers, the Clippers, the Kings and the Ducks. They don't get the attention they would in other parts of the country. A talented recruit is looking at the Pac-12, then the MWC, then the WCC.

The Big West is competing with the WAC and other conferences. There is no one in the Big West that is recruiting at the level NMSU and GCU are at this point. Right now, the WAC looks more exciting...

In theory there is no reason why the BWC couldn't be a much stronger conference. But in application (becoming a California bus league) the BWC has fallen well short of its' heyday. We all know there is no UNLV among this BWC group. But besides that, the BWC in general doesn't have the same caliber of head coaches they use to have during the UNLV era. Gone are coaches like Jerry Pimm and Seth Greenberg and Bob Thomason from the "California" schools. Along with their recruiting woes, the quality of coaching in the BWC has dropped. The WCC is now what the BWC used to be 25 years ago.