(04-06-2017 10:40 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 09:17 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I'll be surprised if they land at UK. D Lawson can play/contribute just about anywhere...except KY. He's not KY good.

Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Dedric is basically a slightly better version of Perry Ellis. Vanilla as hell but a solid four year player for an elite program.

If you don't think 99% of D1 programs would have taken, and played, Ellis as a Junior and Senior, then I'm at a loss.

99% and Perry Ellis and whatever other hypothetical you want to posit have nothing to do with TiminNem's point. He said Kentucky will not offer Dedric now that Dedric is available. You said that was silly. I say you are wrong.

Again, he's available, let's see if Kentucky goes after him.

(04-06-2017 10:56 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:40 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 09:17 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I'll be surprised if they land at UK. D Lawson can play/contribute just about anywhere...except KY. He's not KY good.

Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Dedric is basically a slightly better version of Perry Ellis. Vanilla as hell but a solid four year player for an elite program.

If you don't think 99% of D1 programs would have taken, and played, Ellis as a Junior and Senior, then I'm at a loss.

99% and Perry Ellis and whatever other hypothetical you want to posit have nothing to do with TiminNem's point. He said Kentucky will not offer Dedric now that Dedric is available. You said that was silly. I say you are wrong.

Again, he's available, let's see if Kentucky goes after him.

Just balking at the idea he isn't KY good. You're saying Dedric this year couldn't have played ahead of Derek Willis?

(04-06-2017 10:58 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:56 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:40 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Dedric is basically a slightly better version of Perry Ellis. Vanilla as hell but a solid four year player for an elite program.

If you don't think 99% of D1 programs would have taken, and played, Ellis as a Junior and Senior, then I'm at a loss.

99% and Perry Ellis and whatever other hypothetical you want to posit have nothing to do with TiminNem's point. He said Kentucky will not offer Dedric now that Dedric is available. You said that was silly. I say you are wrong.

Again, he's available, let's see if Kentucky goes after him.

Just balking at the idea he isn't KY good.

It only matter's what role he wants. He's not a lottery pick type talent. That what these people are saying. Lord.

Just stop that nonsense.

He aint going to UK

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 09:17 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I'll be surprised if they land at UK. D Lawson can play/contribute just about anywhere...except KY. He's not KY good.

Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Saluki I agree with 99% of your post but on this one I disagree.. I don't think he would be able to play for Cal.. He is not a good defender and everyone knows if you don't play D for Cal your butt is at the end of the bench.. I sit here and try to think of anyone he could have played in front of on this years team or last years and I just don't see where he would get much if anytime at all.. He doesn't have the motor for a Cal team IMO..

LSU

(04-06-2017 10:58 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:56 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:40 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Dedric is basically a slightly better version of Perry Ellis. Vanilla as hell but a solid four year player for an elite program.

If you don't think 99% of D1 programs would have taken, and played, Ellis as a Junior and Senior, then I'm at a loss.

99% and Perry Ellis and whatever other hypothetical you want to posit have nothing to do with TiminNem's point. He said Kentucky will not offer Dedric now that Dedric is available. You said that was silly. I say you are wrong.

Again, he's available, let's see if Kentucky goes after him.

Just balking at the idea he isn't KY good. You're saying Dedric this year couldn't have played ahead of Derek Willis?

I don't know, I honestly did not watch KY much this year until the tourney.

And I don't think Cal was prioritizing recruiting Dedric, even before Josh rushed to hire Keelon after the Vandy stuff surfaced.

But I don't think Dedric fits the Cal mode of a tough, defensive-minded interior player. Like Skal did not work out there.

And I think we overrate Dedric because he put up good numbers on a bad team. He has a lot of obvious holes in his game.

But we can disagree. It's all good.

(04-06-2017 11:02 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:58 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:56 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:40 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Dedric is basically a slightly better version of Perry Ellis. Vanilla as hell but a solid four year player for an elite program.

If you don't think 99% of D1 programs would have taken, and played, Ellis as a Junior and Senior, then I'm at a loss.

99% and Perry Ellis and whatever other hypothetical you want to posit have nothing to do with TiminNem's point. He said Kentucky will not offer Dedric now that Dedric is available. You said that was silly. I say you are wrong.

Again, he's available, let's see if Kentucky goes after him.

Just balking at the idea he isn't KY good.

It only matter's what role he wants. He's not a lottery pick type talent. That what these people are saying. Lord.

Just stop that nonsense.

Who in the hell is dumb enough to think a (any) player ranked 35th in their class is a lottery pick?

Are people on this board really that stupid to think that just because a kid is a 4* top 50 player that automatically means they should be a lottery pick and if they aren't, they are under achieving?

Jeesus. Take a few minutes to go this this site:

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Basketb...HighSchool

Go look at some of the past years. Look at kids ranked top 10 or top 15. Then top 40.

Then go look here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html

And see where the "lottery" picks were ranked.

Here are last year's:

1 PHI Ben Simmons Louisiana State University #1
2 LAL Brandon Ingram Duke University #3
3 BOS Jaylen Brown University of California #4
4 PHO Dragan Bender
5 MIN Kris Dunn Providence College #16 (played all four years)
6 NOP Buddy Hield University of Oklahoma #178 (played all four years)
7 DEN Jamal Murray University of Kentucky #10
8 SAC Marquesse Chriss University of Washington #60 (played two years)
9 TOR Jakob Poeltl University of Utah NR
10 MIL Thon Maker
11 ORL Domantas Sabonis Gonzaga University NR
12 UTA Taurean Prince Baylor University #194 (played four years)
13 PHO Georgios Papagiannis
14 CHI Denzel Valentine Michigan State University #129 (played four years)
15 DEN Juan Hernangomez
16 BOS Guerschon Yabusele

So basically four players in the top 40 went out early, none higher than #10. But people keep harping on the idea Dedric is a bust because he isn't a lottery pick.

Saluki, who is saying Dedric is a bust?

And it's not that Dedric will not be a lottery pick. It's that he rarely has been on even Top 100 draft boards. Big difference.

(04-06-2017 11:09 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 09:17 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I'll be surprised if they land at UK. D Lawson can play/contribute just about anywhere...except KY. He's not KY good.

Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Saluki I agree with 99% of your post but on this one I disagree.. I don't think he would be able to play for Cal.. He is not a good defender and everyone knows if you don't play D for Cal your butt is at the end of the bench.. I sit here and try to think of anyone he could have played in front of on this years team or last years and I just don't see where he would get much if anytime at all.. He doesn't have the motor for a Cal team IMO..

I realize there is the eye test and there are stats, but these show that Dedric is one of the best defenders in the conference. These are also the same metrics that show Dorsey and Antonio as great defenders.

His defensive rating, defensive win shares, and his defensive box plus/minus are all top 10 in the AAC.

(04-06-2017 11:20 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 11:02 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:58 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:56 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:40 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Dedric is basically a slightly better version of Perry Ellis. Vanilla as hell but a solid four year player for an elite program.

If you don't think 99% of D1 programs would have taken, and played, Ellis as a Junior and Senior, then I'm at a loss.

99% and Perry Ellis and whatever other hypothetical you want to posit have nothing to do with TiminNem's point. He said Kentucky will not offer Dedric now that Dedric is available. You said that was silly. I say you are wrong.

Again, he's available, let's see if Kentucky goes after him.

Just balking at the idea he isn't KY good.

It only matter's what role he wants. He's not a lottery pick type talent. That what these people are saying. Lord.

Just stop that nonsense.

Who in the hell is dumb enough to think a (any) player ranked 35th in their class is a lottery pick?

Are people on this board really that stupid to think that just because a kid is a 4* top 50 player that automatically means they should be a lottery pick and if they aren't, they are under achieving?

Jeesus. Take a few minutes to go this this site:

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Basketb...HighSchool

Go look at some of the past years. Look at kids ranked top 10 or top 15. Then top 40.

Then go look here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html

And see where the "lottery" picks were ranked.

Here are last year's:

1 PHI Ben Simmons Louisiana State University #1
2 LAL Brandon Ingram Duke University #3
3 BOS Jaylen Brown University of California #4
4 PHO Dragan Bender
5 MIN Kris Dunn Providence College #16 (played all four years)
6 NOP Buddy Hield University of Oklahoma #178 (played all four years)
7 DEN Jamal Murray University of Kentucky #10
8 SAC Marquesse Chriss University of Washington #60 (played two years)
9 TOR Jakob Poeltl University of Utah NR
10 MIL Thon Maker
11 ORL Domantas Sabonis Gonzaga University NR
12 UTA Taurean Prince Baylor University #194 (played four years)
13 PHO Georgios Papagiannis
14 CHI Denzel Valentine Michigan State University #129 (played four years)
15 DEN Juan Hernangomez
16 BOS Guerschon Yabusele

So basically four players in the top 40 went out early, none higher than #10. But people keep harping on the idea Dedric is a bust because he isn't a lottery pick.

Cal's certainly could have a lottery pick SF in 2018. Dedric won't start over him. If Dedric is ok with that role, then find.

People are just judging Dedric to the 4-5 players that Cal can bring in every year than typically go in the lottery. Is it far, no. But that's what people mean when they say he can't play for Kentucky. They don't mean it literally. He can certainly be a very good role player for that team, which Cal could use.

Dedric is a very good college player. He could play for any team, including Kentucky. He wouldn't be putting up the numbers he did at Memphis, and wouldn't have to.

I doubt he gets drafted though. Sometimes a great college player isn't a good NBA player. We'll see. I have nothing against these kids. Their dad is a piece of work though...

Hope they do well...

(04-06-2017 11:29 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 11:20 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 11:02 AM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:58 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:56 AM)Tigx Wrote:  99% and Perry Ellis and whatever other hypothetical you want to posit have nothing to do with TiminNem's point. He said Kentucky will not offer Dedric now that Dedric is available. You said that was silly. I say you are wrong.

Again, he's available, let's see if Kentucky goes after him.

Just balking at the idea he isn't KY good.

It only matter's what role he wants. He's not a lottery pick type talent. That what these people are saying. Lord.

Just stop that nonsense.

Who in the hell is dumb enough to think a (any) player ranked 35th in their class is a lottery pick?

Are people on this board really that stupid to think that just because a kid is a 4* top 50 player that automatically means they should be a lottery pick and if they aren't, they are under achieving?

Jeesus. Take a few minutes to go this this site:

http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Basketb...HighSchool

Go look at some of the past years. Look at kids ranked top 10 or top 15. Then top 40.

Then go look here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2016.html

And see where the "lottery" picks were ranked.

Here are last year's:

1 PHI Ben Simmons Louisiana State University #1
2 LAL Brandon Ingram Duke University #3
3 BOS Jaylen Brown University of California #4
4 PHO Dragan Bender
5 MIN Kris Dunn Providence College #16 (played all four years)
6 NOP Buddy Hield University of Oklahoma #178 (played all four years)
7 DEN Jamal Murray University of Kentucky #10
8 SAC Marquesse Chriss University of Washington #60 (played two years)
9 TOR Jakob Poeltl University of Utah NR
10 MIL Thon Maker
11 ORL Domantas Sabonis Gonzaga University NR
12 UTA Taurean Prince Baylor University #194 (played four years)
13 PHO Georgios Papagiannis
14 CHI Denzel Valentine Michigan State University #129 (played four years)
15 DEN Juan Hernangomez
16 BOS Guerschon Yabusele

So basically four players in the top 40 went out early, none higher than #10. But people keep harping on the idea Dedric is a bust because he isn't a lottery pick.

Cal's certainly could have a lottery pick SF in 2018. Dedric won't start over him. If Dedric is ok with that role, then find.

People are just judging Dedric to the 4-5 players that Cal can bring in every year than typically go in the lottery. Is it far, no. But that's what people mean when they say he can't play for Kentucky. They don't mean it literally. He can certainly be a very good role player for that team, which Cal could use.

All this said, I'd be shocked if Cal hired Keelon, which is part of the package. He already gets the best, he doesn't have to do this sort of thing at Kentucky.

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 09:17 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I'll be surprised if they land at UK. D Lawson can play/contribute just about anywhere...except KY. He's not KY good.

Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Stats mean squat. He averaged more points and rebounds than Devin Booker and Anthony Davis and many others. You think Cal would say Lawson is the better player?

Lawson put up good numbers on a mediocre to bad team and against pretty crummy competition.

As I stated in my original post, I think most coaches would find a spot for him in their rotation. I don't think Cal would. Cal gets the best of the best.

And I don't think Dedric or his father would want him to go to KY to be a fifth or sixth option even if the chance did exist that Cal would take him.

That's hardly a knock on D Lawson to say he's not KY good. There are only a handful of guys who are. And Cal gets most of them.

(04-06-2017 11:25 AM)Tigx Wrote:  Saluki, who is saying Dedric is a bust?

And it's not that Dedric will not be a lottery pick. It's that he rarely has been on even Top 100 draft boards. Big difference.

Just look through threads. People keep saying "he thinks he's a lottery pick" or "he'll never be a lottery pick"

Well, based on simple numbers most of guys who are 4* aren't lottery picks--duh.

Hell, look at it this way:

Assume that since he was the 35th guy in his class and that every kid top 60 went out every year and that 10 foreigners went in the draft every year and that the ratings held true through the draft, Dedric WOULDN'T be a 1st rounder. He'd be in the 40's somewhere.

Based on ratings alone, he's slated to be be about the 140th best player in CBB (if all players 1-34 are still playing CBB). Obviously many come out, so after attrition, he'd likely be about the 100th ranked (according to recruiting rankings of those who remained in school).

Yet, there is no doubt most, if not all, basketball "experts" would have him much higher than that.

So, again, based on his skills and performance relative to his recruiting ranking, he has exceeded performance expectations.

The NBA thing has nothing to do with what he did in a Tiger uniform.

(04-06-2017 11:32 AM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  Dedric is a very good college player. He could play for any team, including Kentucky. He wouldn't be putting up the numbers he did at Memphis, and wouldn't have to.

I doubt he gets drafted though. Sometimes a great college player isn't a good NBA player. We'll see. I have nothing against these kids. Their dad is a piece of work though...

Hope they do well...

Agree. There are a lot of great college players who don't get drafted or play in the NBA.

(04-05-2017 09:44 PM)Davidofmtp Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 09:21 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 09:17 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I'll be surprised if they land at UK. D Lawson can play/contribute just about anywhere...except KY. He's not KY good.

What if they land at another AAC school, or a team that's on the Tiger's schedule and then came back to the Forum and kicked Tubby's wrinkled ass from end line to end line.....

They would actually have to hustle to do that. They would rather take their ball and go home before that happened.

Good lord we have some morons in our fanbase.

(04-06-2017 11:28 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 11:09 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 09:17 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I'll be surprised if they land at UK. D Lawson can play/contribute just about anywhere...except KY. He's not KY good.

Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Saluki I agree with 99% of your post but on this one I disagree.. I don't think he would be able to play for Cal.. He is not a good defender and everyone knows if you don't play D for Cal your butt is at the end of the bench.. I sit here and try to think of anyone he could have played in front of on this years team or last years and I just don't see where he would get much if anytime at all.. He doesn't have the motor for a Cal team IMO..

I realize there is the eye test and there are stats, but these show that Dedric is one of the best defenders in the conference. These are also the same metrics that show Dorsey and Antonio as great defenders.

His defensive rating, defensive win shares, and his defensive box plus/minus are all top 10 in the AAC.

Saluki I'd be interested to see what he did this past season playing against teams in the top 50.. The only teams in our Conference would be Cinci and SMU and maybe UCF!!

(04-06-2017 10:40 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 09:17 PM)TiminMem23 Wrote:  I'll be surprised if they land at UK. D Lawson can play/contribute just about anywhere...except KY. He's not KY good.

Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Dedric is basically a slightly better version of Perry Ellis. Vanilla as hell but a solid four year player for an elite program.

If you don't think 99% of D1 programs would have taken, and played, Ellis as a Junior and Senior, then I'm at a loss.

Ellis sister was a Lady Tiger. He used to visit all the time. Dedric is a great player to build around with one and dones.

(04-06-2017 11:50 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 11:28 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 11:09 AM)tigergg Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 10:33 AM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-06-2017 09:48 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Huh, he averaged 19 and 11. Just silly.

Sorry Saluki, I agree with TiminMem. He's available, let's see if KY goes after him. I doubt they will. 19 and 11, but on a bad, 120th ranked RPI team. He's an average at best one-on-one defender, very slow lateral movement. Average shooter.

Who would Dedric have beaten out of the rotation on this year's Kentucky team?

Saluki I agree with 99% of your post but on this one I disagree.. I don't think he would be able to play for Cal.. He is not a good defender and everyone knows if you don't play D for Cal your butt is at the end of the bench.. I sit here and try to think of anyone he could have played in front of on this years team or last years and I just don't see where he would get much if anytime at all.. He doesn't have the motor for a Cal team IMO..

I realize there is the eye test and there are stats, but these show that Dedric is one of the best defenders in the conference. These are also the same metrics that show Dorsey and Antonio as great defenders.

His defensive rating, defensive win shares, and his defensive box plus/minus are all top 10 in the AAC.

Saluki I'd be interested to see what he did this past season playing against teams in the top 50.. The only teams in our Conference would be Cinci and SMU and maybe UCF!!

We were first discussing defense.

Are you now just saying how he performed vs. the few top caliber teams on the schedule?

OK:

n. Iowa: 35 and 11
@ UCF: 28 and 10
@ OU: 26 and 12
@ Cinci: 21 and 10
vs. South Carolina: 19 and 15
n. Providence: 19 and 9
vs. UConn: 15 and 11
vs. SMU: 14 and 6
vs: UCF: 14 and 5
@ SMU: 13 and 5
@ UConn: 13 and 7
n. UCF: 12 and 9
@ OM: 8 and 6