(04-04-2017 11:01 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  SACS cleared them over the summer after their one year probation. They could have put the school on a second year, really putting the heat to them over in Chapel Hill, but the accrediting body relented. So, that part is over. For now.

Are there integrity issues at every school? Sure. But, are we talking about fraud, like UNC committed, or stuff like enrollment and admission issues? Because, yeah, a school might let someone who has no business being in school, but that person still has to pass. And "rocks for jocks" courses? Sure, they're there. Depending on what program you are in at the school, you can't take them. It's built-in quality assurance. UNC pulled both off, but the whole thing was just fraudulent. These were classes according to a staffing and funding line, and a ledger...that's about it.

I agree that does appear to be the case. As much as I was pulling for the UNC basketball team last night, I wouldn't try to defend them if the NCAA decided to punish them further for this... really, the only defense I've heard from Tar Heel fans is regarding jurisdiction (not denial of the crime, but essentially "this is the wrong court").

(04-04-2017 12:29 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 11:01 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  SACS cleared them over the summer after their one year probation. They could have put the school on a second year, really putting the heat to them over in Chapel Hill, but the accrediting body relented. So, that part is over. For now.

Are there integrity issues at every school? Sure. But, are we talking about fraud, like UNC committed, or stuff like enrollment and admission issues? Because, yeah, a school might let someone who has no business being in school, but that person still has to pass. And "rocks for jocks" courses? Sure, they're there. Depending on what program you are in at the school, you can't take them. It's built-in quality assurance. UNC pulled both off, but the whole thing was just fraudulent. These were classes according to a staffing and funding line, and a ledger...that's about it.

I agree that does appear to be the case. As much as I was pulling for the UNC basketball team last night, I wouldn't try to defend them if the NCAA decided to punish them further for this... really, the only defense I've heard from Tar Heel fans is regarding jurisdiction (not denial of the crime, but essentially "this is the wrong court").

PSU fans make the same argument. Not trying to equate the two, but excusing bad behavior to save athletics is a common theme you will see play out across the country where athletics are a big part of the culture.

(04-04-2017 08:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Every single G5 and P5 school is cheating. The fact that virtually all of these schools have the obligatory "Rocks for Jocks" types of classes to ensure compliance to NCAA rules coupled with the lower academic standards for the "student athletes" playing in the money sports is enough to plainly see it. Add in the "student athlete" palaces they get to kick around in plus the athletic boosters that hover around the sports... Please. UNC just got caught. Who really cares anymore. No one in positions of authority really do, because ALL of them try their hardest to be ignorant of the cheating - even the NCAA.

The classic whataboutism reply.

(04-04-2017 09:41 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Yes, they are all cheating. If every school held "student athletes" to the same standards as regular students, then the quality of the money sports would erode significantly.

Somewhat agree. Sorry but not everybody is literally cheating. If everybody was really on a level playing field the competition would still be great. Just less mix tape highlight type of stuff.

(04-04-2017 09:41 AM)miko33 Wrote:  If you watch college football and college basketball, then you really don't care about the extent of the cheating. If you did, you would tune out on moral grounds. I'm guessing you don't do that.

I only very casually watch now. Some ECU games and some AAC games. I come here for the political board and to try to understand what the normies think more than anything else. I wish America didn't need so much bread and circus.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(04-04-2017 08:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Every single G5 and P5 school is cheating. The fact that virtually all of these schools have the obligatory "Rocks for Jocks" types of classes to ensure compliance to NCAA rules coupled with the lower academic standards for the "student athletes" playing in the money sports is enough to plainly see it. Add in the "student athlete" palaces they get to kick around in plus the athletic boosters that hover around the sports... Please. UNC just got caught. Who really cares anymore. No one in positions of authority really do, because ALL of them try their hardest to be ignorant of the cheating - even the NCAA.

Please provide proof

(04-04-2017 04:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 08:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Every single G5 and P5 school is cheating. The fact that virtually all of these schools have the obligatory "Rocks for Jocks" types of classes to ensure compliance to NCAA rules coupled with the lower academic standards for the "student athletes" playing in the money sports is enough to plainly see it. Add in the "student athlete" palaces they get to kick around in plus the athletic boosters that hover around the sports... Please. UNC just got caught. Who really cares anymore. No one in positions of authority really do, because ALL of them try their hardest to be ignorant of the cheating - even the NCAA.

The classic whataboutism reply.

No. My points have nothing to do with excusing bad behavior because everyone else is doing it. If you are familiar with my previous posts on these types of issues, you would see that I'm coming from the opposite direction. What UNC did with the cheating scandal along with the more blatant cheating done in the past is a natural extension of an already messed up system. The "student athletes" - at least in the revenue sports - are more or less ringers. Not all. But most.

When you compare the course work to maintain eligibility vs the typical course work loads for students whose primary goal is to get a marketable degree - does it really matter if the "student athlete" completes the coloring book by himself vs having someone color the pictures in for him?

(04-05-2017 08:03 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 04:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 08:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Every single G5 and P5 school is cheating. The fact that virtually all of these schools have the obligatory "Rocks for Jocks" types of classes to ensure compliance to NCAA rules coupled with the lower academic standards for the "student athletes" playing in the money sports is enough to plainly see it. Add in the "student athlete" palaces they get to kick around in plus the athletic boosters that hover around the sports... Please. UNC just got caught. Who really cares anymore. No one in positions of authority really do, because ALL of them try their hardest to be ignorant of the cheating - even the NCAA.

The classic whataboutism reply.

No. My points have nothing to do with excusing bad behavior because everyone else is doing it. If you are familiar with my previous posts on these types of issues, you would see that I'm coming from the opposite direction. What UNC did with the cheating scandal along with the more blatant cheating done in the past is a natural extension of an already messed up system. The "student athletes" - at least in the revenue sports - are more or less ringers. Not all. But most.

When you compare the course work to maintain eligibility vs the typical course work loads for students whose primary goal is to get a marketable degree - does it really matter if the "student athlete" completes the coloring book by himself vs having someone color the pictures in for him?

I'm not sure that's a valid comparison. You're conflating "rules" vs "what you'd like to see". Trust me, I get what you're saying BUT the fact is that the RULES allow for the relaxation of certain standards when admitting athletes. Once they're in college it makes no difference what major they are in so long as they're doing the work. To the best of my knowledge, yes, that is happening at every major D1 program. I agree that in a perfect world we would only admit student athletes who can make the grades in a marketable major but that's just never going to happen.

The bigger problem is outright fraud and admitting students who are not remotely close to being able to make the grades in any major. Dexter Manley being a perfect example. Several from UNC's past 25 years or so would fit that criteria.

(04-04-2017 11:10 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

I get it haters gonna hate? but does UNC or Clemson winning make you feel better about Louisville not winning?

(04-04-2017 06:54 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 12:02 AM)colohank Wrote:  

(04-03-2017 11:53 PM)Artifice Wrote:  

(04-03-2017 11:50 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:   ACC, ACC, ACC, ACC, ACC

+1

If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin

Yep.

(04-05-2017 10:45 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 08:03 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 04:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 08:31 AM)miko33 Wrote:  Every single G5 and P5 school is cheating. The fact that virtually all of these schools have the obligatory "Rocks for Jocks" types of classes to ensure compliance to NCAA rules coupled with the lower academic standards for the "student athletes" playing in the money sports is enough to plainly see it. Add in the "student athlete" palaces they get to kick around in plus the athletic boosters that hover around the sports... Please. UNC just got caught. Who really cares anymore. No one in positions of authority really do, because ALL of them try their hardest to be ignorant of the cheating - even the NCAA.

The classic whataboutism reply.

No. My points have nothing to do with excusing bad behavior because everyone else is doing it. If you are familiar with my previous posts on these types of issues, you would see that I'm coming from the opposite direction. What UNC did with the cheating scandal along with the more blatant cheating done in the past is a natural extension of an already messed up system. The "student athletes" - at least in the revenue sports - are more or less ringers. Not all. But most.

When you compare the course work to maintain eligibility vs the typical course work loads for students whose primary goal is to get a marketable degree - does it really matter if the "student athlete" completes the coloring book by himself vs having someone color the pictures in for him?

I'm not sure that's a valid comparison. You're conflating "rules" vs "what you'd like to see". Trust me, I get what you're saying BUT the fact is that the RULES allow for the relaxation of certain standards when admitting athletes. Once they're in college it makes no difference what major they are in so long as they're doing the work. To the best of my knowledge, yes, that is happening at every major D1 program. I agree that in a perfect world we would only admit student athletes who can make the grades in a marketable major but that's just never going to happen.

The bigger problem is outright fraud and admitting students who are not remotely close to being able to make the grades in any major. Dexter Manley being a perfect example. Several from UNC's past 25 years or so would fit that criteria.

Technically, yes I am conflating the two if we're going to approach this in a purely legalistic way. This is a value judgement on my part, and based on values alone I feel that intentionally relaxing standards for entrance requirements as well as creating courses designed to maintain compliance is legalized cheating - if I can use such a phrase. So sure, strictly going by the rules the "student athletes" need to be working on their own coloring books vs having someone do the coloring for them. To me, this is like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Because in a larger sense, the majority of these kids are ill served by going the college route when the much more ethical things for them is to 1) steer them towards legitimate trade schools to learn real skills and/or 2) develop real D-leagues/minor leagues as avenues for these kids to continue their dreams without focusing on other facets of college life that many of these kids really prefer not to deal with if they had their choice.

The part in bold above, I think I would use the term "fraud" more broadly than you would. However, that should be apparent based on our exchanges in this thread.

(04-05-2017 11:32 AM)Huskies12 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 11:10 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

I get it haters gonna hate? but does UNC or Clemson winning make you feel better about Louisville not winning?

Yes, we are all ACC brothers and family.

(04-05-2017 12:28 PM)miko33 Wrote:  the majority of these kids are ill served by going the college route when the much more ethical things for them is to 1) steer them towards legitimate trade schools to learn real skills and/or 2) develop real D-leagues/minor leagues as avenues for these kids to continue their dreams without focusing on other facets of college life that many of these kids really prefer not to deal with if they had their choice.

I could not agree more with this. I'd rather watch legitimate, marketable (whatever you want to call it) students compete in all college sports. The competition itself would still be good but we'd have less of the highlight film type of stuff which is more than OK with me.

(04-05-2017 12:35 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 11:32 AM)Huskies12 Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 11:10 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

I get it haters gonna hate? but does UNC or Clemson winning make you feel better about Louisville not winning?

Yes, we are all ACC brothers and family.

I won't judge your fapping material. Different strokes for different folks.

(04-04-2017 09:11 AM)hoops22 Wrote:  

(04-03-2017 11:50 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:   ACC, ACC, ACC, ACC, ACC

Congratulations! First round of hookers are on Wilkie tonight.

Big East cities Pimps will be taking reservations !